Samsung Launches 2019 QLED Lineup - Page 15 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #421 of 791 Old 02-22-2019, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by tojo_m View Post
96 zones? But the Samsung’s have had a much better native contrast ratio too, in the 6000’s isn’t it?
Edit: btw what would be sony’s comparable 2019 TV to the 82” q90? (80”+ with excellent PQ and somewhat “normal” pricing?
None in 4k.
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post #422 of 791 Old 02-22-2019, 08:54 AM
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It feels to me like they are saying that the zones dont matter, the black filter/x wide viewing is what you want and are paying the premium on.

In order to make a tier down, they gutted the dimming zones while still offering you the black filter/x wide.

Genius marketing, IMO.
It may well be more than marketing. Samsung is clearly prioritizing viewing angles and reflection handling over all-out FALD, and they may not be wrong to do so. According to the HDGuru review, these sets can preserve color and black levels out to 60* viewing angle. That's huge, compared to today's run-of-the-mill VA panels that lose blacks in as little as 10-12* off axis. Black being black in more seating areas than the one sweet spot at the center of the couch is going to do way more for better PQ than marginally increasing the zone count.



Good FALD results are achievable with 96 zones. Some highly regarded sets even have dramatically fewer than that. The MSRPs on these ARE a little ridiculous, but those are MSRP, and we all know they're not going to sell for that in reality.And I think that's all we can say about that issue here.


These features have put Samsung back on the map for me. I wouldn't have seriously considered any non-flagship model (and honestly not most of them) from them for YEARS. Well played, I say.
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post #423 of 791 Old 02-22-2019, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by New_to_4K View Post
None in 4k.
It's a shame too, because they brought back the "Backlight Master Drive " from the Z9D, for the Z9G 8K set. Would be nice in an 85" 4K set.

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post #424 of 791 Old 02-22-2019, 09:44 AM
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It may well be more than marketing. Samsung is clearly prioritizing viewing angles and reflection handling over all-out FALD, and they may not be wrong to do so. According to the HDGuru review, these sets can preserve color and black levels out to 60* viewing angle. That's huge, compared to today's run-of-the-mill VA panels that lose blacks in as little as 10-12* off axis. Black being black in more seating areas than the one sweet spot at the center of the couch is going to do way more for better PQ than marginally increasing the zone count.



Good FALD results are achievable with 96 zones. Some highly regarded sets even have dramatically fewer than that. The MSRPs on these ARE a little ridiculous, but those are MSRP, and we all know they're not going to sell for that in reality.And I think that's all we can say about that issue here.


These features have put Samsung back on the map for me. I wouldn't have seriously considered any non-flagship model (and honestly not most of them) from them for YEARS. Well played, I say.
Well said. I agree with your points, and definitely the MSRP being a little ridiculous. Even with the 20% off EPP discount, I still feel that it is overpriced.

Going to wait how reviews and release goes.
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post #425 of 791 Old 02-22-2019, 09:49 AM
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In regards to 49" and 55" size models of "The Frame" 2019 release... which specs of 2019 4K Models will they mimic Q60, Q70 or Q80? I'm assuming a One-Connect box is required. I looked at the published B&H specs for the different sizes for 2019 The Frame and they appear to be closer to the Q60. Am I missing something? I was hopping for specs similar to the Q70 or better.
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post #426 of 791 Old 02-22-2019, 10:26 AM
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In regards to 49" and 55" size models of "The Frame" 2019 release... which specs of 2019 4K Models will they mimic Q60, Q70 or Q80? I'm assuming a One-Connect box is required. I looked at the published B&H specs for the different sizes for 2019 The Frame and they appear to be closer to the Q60. Am I missing something? I was hopping for specs similar to the Q70 or better.
Have you read this review?

https://www.techradar.com/reviews/sa...-frame-tv-2019
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post #427 of 791 Old 02-22-2019, 11:19 AM
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Thanks... Nice article about The Frame 2019, but it still lacks some of the features and specification details that I'm trying to find. Maybe, as the size of The Frame increases, so will the specs. I just don't want to end up with Q60 specs. The Frame might be the only option for me to get a bigger TV in the living room without my wife objecting to the size.
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post #428 of 791 Old 02-22-2019, 12:07 PM
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It may well be more than marketing. Samsung is clearly prioritizing viewing angles and reflection handling over all-out FALD, and they may not be wrong to do so. According to the HDGuru review, these sets can preserve color and black levels out to 60* viewing angle. That's huge, compared to today's run-of-the-mill VA panels that lose blacks in as little as 10-12* off axis. Black being black in more seating areas than the one sweet spot at the center of the couch is going to do way more for better PQ than marginally increasing the zone count.

It’s funny how HDGuru compares the viewing angles on the Q90 as being similar to the Z9F, which definitely does not preserve color and black levels out to 60 deg and is not nearly as good as OLED. Red flag!

I think I’d rather wait and do my own evaluation, thanks anyway. Although improved, most were actually not all that impressed with the viewing angles on the Z9F, at least from what I’ve seen and heard.

Is this another classic case of overhype? Time will tell.

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post #429 of 791 Old 02-22-2019, 12:39 PM
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It’s funny how HDGuru compares the viewing angles on the Q90 as being similar to the Z9F, which definitely does not preserve color and black levels out to 60 deg and is not nearly as good as OLED. Red flag!

I think I’d rather wait and do my own evaluation, thanks anyway. Although improved, most were actually not all that impressed with the viewing angles on the Z9F, at least from what I’ve seen and heard.

Is this another classic case of overhype? Time will tell.
Sure, you are correct. I have no doubt that Samsung's claims will be put to a full and thorough test by the usual suspects. Still, the hands-on reports from people who have actually seen the 2019 models in person are encouraging, as they seem to unanimously claim to perceive a difference. Which hasn't been true of past "wide viewing angle" features/modes, as you point out. If it's all marketing fluff, Samsung will be exposed very early on in the models' availability as these get tested.
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post #430 of 791 Old 02-22-2019, 12:43 PM
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Vincent when had had the behind the scenes look at the Q90 was severely impressed so I would say that its definitely promising at the moment. As an owner of the Q900 that's going back soon for the Q950 and former Q9FN owner the viewing angels where to be honest terrible but VA panels in general are. To me though whats just as important as the viewing angles is that on the 2018 sets blooming would be very severe as soon as you go off axis. These 2019 models are supposed to hold there blacks and contrast with no blooming off angle which for me would be a huge plus.
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post #431 of 791 Old 02-22-2019, 01:37 PM
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Vincent when had had the behind the scenes look at the Q90 was severely impressed so I would say that its definitely promising at the moment. As an owner of the Q900 that's going back soon for the Q950 and former Q9FN owner the viewing angels where to be honest terrible but VA panels in general are. To me though whats just as important as the viewing angles is that on the 2018 sets blooming would be very severe as soon as you go off axis. These 2019 models are supposed to hold there blacks and contrast with no blooming off angle which for me would be a huge plus.

What's wrong with the Q900 - why is it "going back?"

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post #432 of 791 Old 02-22-2019, 01:53 PM
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What's wrong with the Q900 - why is it "going back?"
The Q950 is out very soon as my Q900 is still under the Samsung 100 day offer where you can return for a full refund up to 100 days. For the hassle of packing up the q900 and replacing it with a q950 it seemed like a no brainer to return it and get the Q950 with its new features for most likely no difference in price. I have two weeks left on the 100 day return and I know I would have regretted it once the Q950 came out. Being in a bright room the even better black filter and wider viewing angels would be a big bonus. Add to that the one connect box with all HDMI 2.1 ports and other improvements to dimming its worth swapping for the 2019 model.
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I will be curious to see what Vincent Teoh has to say when he sources his own set for testing. His initial impressions were at that Samsung event, correct?

Rtings is usually a good source for thorough and trustworthy reviews as well.

The reviewers that don’t rely on manufacturer supplied sets for testing do much more reliable and thorough reviews.
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post #434 of 791 Old 02-22-2019, 01:54 PM
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The Q950 is out very soon as my Q900 is still under the Samsung 100 day offer where you can return for a full refund up to 100 days. For the hassle of packing up the q900 and replacing it with a q950 it seemed like a no brainer to return it and get the Q950 with its new features for most likely no difference in price. I have two weeks left on the 100 day return and I know I would have regretted it once the Q950 came out.

And this is one of the reasons prices for TVs are so high...
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post #435 of 791 Old 02-22-2019, 01:57 PM
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And this is one of the reasons prices for TVs are so high...
Also one of the reasons why to buy from the Samsung shop to get that offer. I don't know if you guys had that offer in the states but it was the main reason why I bought it directly from Samsung. With the 2019 models out soon theres no stress about should I or shouldn't I have got it because you can still return it hassle free.
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I'll be honest, if the ultra viewing filter turns out to be legit, I think Samsung might have gotten me as a customer.

I keep spinning my head around what I am going to do but that feels like a major improvement worth paying a premium for.

I may even consider financing it at 0% for the hell of it and sticking my money into a 2% savings account to draw against it.

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Also one of the reasons why to buy from the Samsung shop to get that offer. I don't know if you guys had that offer in the states but it was the main reason why I bought it directly from Samsung. With the 2019 models out soon theres no stress about should I or shouldn't I have got it because you can still return it hassle free.
Samsung.com is easy and hassle free for returns? for how long?
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post #437 of 791 Old 02-22-2019, 04:29 PM
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Samsung.com is easy and hassle free for returns? for how long?
He is from the UK, they had a promo running for some 2018 QLED models of a 100-day trial period; definitely not standard practice. Other countries had other promo's like the high end soundbar or over here a €500 cashback (only €200 for 55" models initially) ...
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post #438 of 791 Old 02-22-2019, 05:02 PM
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And this is one of the reasons prices for TVs are so high...
I don't follow? Samsung replaces a half baked Q900 with a fully baked Q950 within 100 days. Matsonia is astute enough to protect himself. What is the connection between that and high prices?
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post #439 of 791 Old 02-22-2019, 05:03 PM
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It appears more and more that the Sony x950 (x95g) is really a big step down compared to the Samsung q90 series. Yes, the 85” Sony is bigger, but with a native contrast ratio of somewhere in the 4000’s and less than 100 dimming zones, it can’t even compare to the Q80 for good quality dark room blockbuster watching.
Where are you getting the info that the native CR of the Sony x95g is around 4000? I do remember the smaller sizes (55/65) won't have the wider viewing angles so they should have a native CR near 6000. But for the bigger sizes you might be generous with 4000 based upon the Z9F.

Edit Got the info I think you were looking at, still think we need to wait for some review that are more familiar to us.

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Man, i have read all the reviews and seen the videos posted here regarding these tv's, and i'm not impressed. People here going wow over a 480 zone lcd or even a 96 zone lcd. And that 'ultra wide viewing angle' thing, what's the fuss about that, plasmas did better viewing angles than that ten years ago. Some of you are just too easy to impress or I am harder to impress. One of the two.

I await reading impressions about the GZ2000 and sony A9G, that's what has my attention. Sony's lcd's, like samsung's, do nothing groundbreaking either, the Z9G may be decent with the BMD local dimming but it will cost a fortune.
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post #441 of 791 Old 02-22-2019, 05:17 PM
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I await reading impressions about the GZ2000 and sony A9G, that's what has my attention. Sony's lcd's, like samsung's, do nothing groundbreaking either, the Z9G may be decent with the BMD local dimming but it will cost a fortune.
I await you reading those impressions also. And discussing it on the appropriate thread.
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post #442 of 791 Old 02-22-2019, 05:24 PM
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Man, i have read all the reviews and seen the videos posted here regarding these tv's, and i'm not impressed. People here going wow over a 480 zone lcd or even a 96 zone lcd. And that 'ultra wide viewing angle' thing, what's the fuss about that, plasmas did better viewing angles than that ten years ago. Some of you are just too easy to impress or I am harder to impress. One of the two.

I await reading impressions about the GZ2000 and sony A9G, that's what has my attention. Sony's lcd's, like samsung's, do nothing groundbreaking either, the Z9G may be decent with the BMD local dimming but it will cost a fortune.

Careful up there on your high horse, wouldn’t want you to fall off and hurt yourself...
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post #443 of 791 Old 02-22-2019, 05:49 PM
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I don't follow? Samsung replaces a half baked Q900 with a fully baked Q950 within 100 days. Matsonia is astute enough to protect himself. What is the connection between that and high prices?
Exactly, while the Q900 is a great TV its as you put it a half baked version of the Q950 that they wanted to get out last year. Having the choice to return that TV within 100 days and pick up the Q950 soon makes perfect sense. I wont have any regrets and ill have all the new features.
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post #444 of 791 Old 02-22-2019, 05:53 PM
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Man, i have read all the reviews and seen the videos posted here regarding these tv's, and i'm not impressed. People here going wow over a 480 zone lcd or even a 96 zone lcd. And that 'ultra wide viewing angle' thing, what's the fuss about that, plasmas did better viewing angles than that ten years ago. Some of you are just too easy to impress or I am harder to impress. One of the two.

I await reading impressions about the GZ2000 and sony A9G, that's what has my attention. Sony's lcd's, like samsung's, do nothing groundbreaking either, the Z9G may be decent with the BMD local dimming but it will cost a fortune.
Plasma TVs could barely do 1080p. Remember how long they were 720p, eventually getting to 1080p then essentially Panasonic giving up when 4k came out since they could not do it? The plasma cell architecture could not be shrunk down enough to get to 4k?

Remember how dim the picture was? It would wash out easily in a bright room (I still own 2 plasmas).

Plasmas could also burn in...

Yes the TV world had a setback when Plasmas were discontinued, but they were surpassed in a couple of years on the OLED front, and now really LCDs are starting to outdo those plasma TVs.

I currently having an aging Pioneer Kuro plasma in my master bedroom. I am thinking this could be the year that I could get an LCD to replace it and be happier with the picture, especially with 4k HDR.
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post #445 of 791 Old 02-22-2019, 05:56 PM
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Man, i have read all the reviews and seen the videos posted here regarding these tv's, and i'm not impressed. People here going wow over a 480 zone lcd or even a 96 zone lcd. And that 'ultra wide viewing angle' thing, what's the fuss about that, plasmas did better viewing angles than that ten years ago. Some of you are just too easy to impress or I am harder to impress. One of the two.

I await reading impressions about the GZ2000 and sony A9G, that's what has my attention. Sony's lcd's, like samsung's, do nothing groundbreaking either, the Z9G may be decent with the BMD local dimming but it will cost a fortune.

Do you actually like LCD's at all? Because I honestly don't understand your comment about viewing angles and plasma doing that 10 years ago when its a different technology. Plasma could barely go above a few hundred nits where LCD's are pushing between 2000-4000. Different technologies have there flaws. Where talking about something that has been a negative for LCD technology for a very long time and finally this issue of narrow viewing angles especially with VA panels is being fixed. Its a huge advancement for LCD.


It would be like an OLED going from the current 800 or so nits to 2000 nits a year later or OLED finally being able to remove banding completely which is a downside of its current implementation. They barely progress and any OLED from the last few years is going to be extremely similar.
This is huge for people who want an LCD as it finally solves one of there biggest issues especially as a main family room TV.
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post #446 of 791 Old 02-22-2019, 05:58 PM
 
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Careful up there on your high horse, wouldn’t want you to fall off and hurt yourself...
hmm... those other tv's i speak are not yet out, we'll see how all these tv's stack up against each other in real world usage and also what results the tv shootouts bring out. But based on the review info and videos available of these samsungs, i fail to see anything innovative or anything that immediately impresses...a 480 or 96 zone lcd is just more standard fare run of the mill stuff, that we've been hearing about since many years. And the annual samsung PR hype train from seoul running at this time of the year. and look at the pricing on that 96 zone, non hdmi 2.1 4k model....r-i-p price to performance ratio.
Are you planning to preorder one of these?
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post #447 of 791 Old 02-22-2019, 06:15 PM
 
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Do you actually like LCD's at all?
I want to like lcd, companies are not giving me a reason to.
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Do you actually like LCD's at all? Because I honestly don't understand your comment about viewing angles and plasma doing that 10 years ago when its a different technology. Plasma could barely go above a few hundred nits where LCD's are pushing between 2000-4000. Different technologies have there flaws. Where talking about something that has been a negative for LCD technology for a very long time and finally this issue of narrow viewing angles especially with VA panels is being fixed. Its a huge advancement for LCD.

It would be like an OLED going from the current 800 or so nits to 2000 nits a year later or OLED finally being able to remove banding completely which is a downside of its current implementation. They barely progress and any OLED from the last few years is going to be extremely similar.
This is huge for people who want an LCD as it finally solves one of there biggest issues especially as a main family room TV.
So lcd finally catching up to a ten year old technology in viewing angles is supposed to be something impressive? Maybe to you, not to me. And let's be real, it still wont be on the level of pdp, it'll just have better view angles than standard PVA panels used for lcd.
And give me a break about "nits". Not once has a lcd been able to win a tv shootout's hdr category over oled, despite boasting about how many more "nits" it can put out. Keep a 96 zone lcd, dont make an effort to boost black levels proportionally, just keep boosting whites to 4000 or 6000 nits, what results? more blooming.
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post #448 of 791 Old 02-22-2019, 06:21 PM
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lol I can't even be bothered. Please just take this somewhere else. You clearly have no interest so why are you bringing all this into the 2019 QLED thread.
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post #449 of 791 Old 02-22-2019, 06:34 PM
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I think you're jumping the gun. Wait for reviews and where prices settle. Though it's difficult to fathom on AVS, there's actually more to TV performance than contrast ratio. If it was only about Contrast Ratio vs price or even Contrast Ratio below the 90R or OLED, we'd all own Vizio PQs. Not something I'm personally interested in.
I don’t think I’m jumping the gun yet as I’ll take my time to research thoroughly before I buy. Maybe wait for the professional reviews of the PQX to be out before arriving at conclusions? 😉
Anyway, I understand there’s a lot more check boxes than contrast ratio. However, I’m in the market for a large 4K TV this year and the main usage is going to be watching movies in dim lighting. So, I’m trying to gather info for my usage patterns. I’m trying to use the tools at hand such as rting’s TV recommendation tool that you can customize for your situation. For example, dark room, movie usage, zero sports in my case. Based on that it appears that contrast ratio and local dimming are the two top criteria. And yes I would definitely own the OLED in a heartbeat except for their very high prices.

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post #450 of 791 Old 02-22-2019, 07:17 PM
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For example, dark room, movie usage, zero sports in my case. Based on that it appears that contrast ratio and local dimming are the two top criteria.
Definitely. Contrast and black level perfomance is very important in visiual experience.

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btw what would be sony’s comparable 2019 TV to the 82” q90? (80”+ with excellent PQ and somewhat “normal” pricing?
Z9G of course. It's top perfomer in Sony 2019 TV range. X95G is rival for Q70/Q80.
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