Are there any QLED - IPS panels ? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 26 Old 02-18-2019, 04:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Are there any QLED - IPS panels ?

I thought about upgrading to a QLED UHD/4K TV. All the QLED TVs & monitors I looked at used VA panels. I searched all over & could not find anything about QLED IPS panels. I did not find anything why this combination could not be done, or that it it could. I came up with no information either way.

Could it be that IPS panels supposedly have better color accuracy than VA, therefore IPS does not need the "help" of quantum dots?

Or is there some technical reason why QLED and IPS don't work well together?

Or does some one actually make such a TV but I just haven't found it?

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post #2 of 26 Old 02-18-2019, 04:48 PM
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LG is the king of IPS and they offer their "nano cell" color capable TVs, although no one really knows how comparable to quantum dots the really are but they're supposed to offer a wide(r) color gamut in comparison to their TVs that don't have that tech. Other than that, Samsung has a computer monitor that has a TN panel (Twisted Neumatic) and quantum dots (I wasn't sure of your application).

Are you against VA panels? They have the best contrast of the two techs so that's the reason they are used more, Samsung has also introduced their 2019 line of VA quantum dot TVS that offer wide viewing angles (and has been validated by some pros).

Hope that helps.

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post #3 of 26 Old 02-18-2019, 05:56 PM
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IPS panels, due to their pixel structure offer superior off-axis viewing but the compromise is color accuracy. IPS panels can not offer the deep blacks that PVA panels can. However, the off-axis viewing of PVA panels is horrendous. I have an LG with the S-IPS panel and a Samsung with the S-PVA panel. Both are LCD. The upstairs tv is an OLED (LG). Whether Samsung's "quantum dot" panels make a difference I don't know. Maybe it's just slick marketing.

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post #4 of 26 Old 02-18-2019, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike99 View Post
I thought about upgrading to a QLED UHD/4K TV. All the QLED TVs & monitors I looked at used VA panels. I searched all over & could not find anything about QLED IPS panels. I did not find anything why this combination could not be done, or that it it could. I came up with no information either way.


Could it be that IPS panels supposedly have better color accuracy than VA, therefore IPS does not need the "help" of quantum dots?


Or is there some technical reason why QLED and IPS don't work well together?


Or does some one actually make such a TV but I just haven't found it?
As Troy Mentioned, the 2019 Samsung Q80 and Q90 seem to have fixed the viewing angle issue, therefore IPS no longer needed.
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post #5 of 26 Old 02-19-2019, 12:13 AM
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Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
As Troy Mentioned, the 2019 Samsung Q80 and Q90 seem to have fixed the viewing angle issue, therefore IPS no longer needed.
Glad to know that the Q8 2019 will be getting the ultra wide.

How much is it?
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post #6 of 26 Old 02-19-2019, 01:06 AM
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Originally Posted by tubers View Post
Glad to know that the Q8 2019 will be getting the ultra wide.

How much is it?

If you go to the B&H website, just search Samsung Q80 and all the sizes and prices are available for preorder. Europe has a Q80 and Q85.
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post #7 of 26 Old 02-19-2019, 02:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks everyone for all the replies.

I'd rather have the better off-axis viewing of an IPS panel than the deeper blacks of a VA panel. I also thought IPS was supposed to have better color accuracy than VA. I do want decent blacks, but do not want black crush. I want to see dark shadow detail. If someone is wearing a black suit coat I want to be able to see the lapel & the wrinkles in the fabric.

I'm looking for a TV & only mentioned monitors because they don't appear to have QLED IPS either.

I thought the QLED TV's picture looks good, and some things I've read indicate it's almost as good as OLED. I'll have to look into the new 2019 Samsung Q80 series & their wide viewing angle. Or perhaps just forget about QLED.
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post #8 of 26 Old 02-19-2019, 03:42 AM
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Sony already came out with a wider viewing VA panel in the 2018 in the Z9F called the X-Wide Angle. The result was lowered contrast ratio, higher than IPS panels but lower than true VA panels. The new 2019 Samsungs with Ultra Wide Viewing angle have not been tested so what you're being told here is just yearly Samsung hype. Don't preorder one, wait for reviews as the yearly Samsung new model hype here at AVS generally falls short of reality. As far as "QLED" goes, it's just a marketing label for their higher end LED backlit LCDs with a quantum dot layer, the past two years high-end Sonys have been better. OLEDs are a completely different animal, emissive without a backlight with deep blacks, very wide viewing angle, but not as bright as the high-end LCDs.
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post #9 of 26 Old 02-20-2019, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VA_DaveB View Post
Sony already came out with a wider viewing VA panel in the 2018 in the Z9F called the X-Wide Angle. The result was lowered contrast ratio, higher than IPS panels but lower than true VA panels. The new 2019 Samsungs with Ultra Wide Viewing angle have not been tested so what you're being told here is just yearly Samsung hype. Don't preorder one, wait for reviews as the yearly Samsung new model hype here at AVS generally falls short of reality. As far as "QLED" goes, it's just a marketing label for their higher end LED backlit LCDs with a quantum dot layer, the past two years high-end Sonys have been better. OLEDs are a completely different animal, emissive without a backlight with deep blacks, very wide viewing angle, but not as bright as the high-end LCDs.
You may not be fully following the development but the early hands on from respected reviewers/calibrators all say that the increased angle of viewing on the new sets is very good to great. There are videos online from the Samsung event showing the angles of the Q models for the past couple of years and anyone with good vision can clearly see that the viewing angle has indeed been dramatically improved.

FYI

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post #10 of 26 Old 02-20-2019, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy LaMont View Post
You may not be fully following the development but the early hands on from respected reviewers/calibrators all say that the increased angle of viewing on the new sets is very good to great. There are videos online from the Samsung event showing the angles of the Q models for the past couple of years and anyone with good vision can clearly see that the viewing angle has indeed been dramatically improved.

FYI
Unfortunately there aren't any complete reviews with actual measurements just anecdotal statements from previews. With the Sony Z9F, the viewing angle was indeed better but the blacks suffered and there was more blooming. I'll wait for real reviews to be published to see what might be affected by the ultra viewing angle modifications.
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post #11 of 26 Old 02-20-2019, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by VA_DaveB View Post
Unfortunately there aren't any complete reviews with actual measurements just anecdotal statements from previews. With the Sony Z9F, the viewing angle was indeed better but the blacks suffered and there was more blooming. I'll wait for real reviews to be published to see what might be affected by the ultra viewing angle modifications.
Not sure what you consider "real" but here you go...doesn't take scientific equipment to know that if you can see the picture from a wider angle...it's better.

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post #12 of 26 Old 02-20-2019, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by VA_DaveB View Post
Unfortunately there aren't any complete reviews with actual measurements just anecdotal statements from previews. With the Sony Z9F, the viewing angle was indeed better but the blacks suffered and there was more blooming. I'll wait for real reviews to be published to see what might be affected by the ultra viewing angle modifications.
Doesn't rtings do it?

I can attest as a few did that Sony's X900F VA panel has somewhat better viewing angles compared to more VA panels on the market including TCL and Vizio.

Looks the most weird to me though. Like too washed out for the X900F unless I start jacking up color and live color.

https://www.rtings.com/tv/tools/comp...g-q8fn/585/598

sony's colors falls of earlier by 2 degrees but brightness falls off faster by a whopping 17 degrees for Q8FN.
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post #13 of 26 Old 02-21-2019, 01:49 AM
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Or does some one actually make such a TV but I just haven't found it?
A couple of years too late



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post #14 of 26 Old 02-21-2019, 01:53 AM
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Not sure what you consider "real" but here you go...doesn't take scientific equipment to know that if you can see the picture from a wider angle...it's better.

AVS Forum 'real' review
Same as last year and the year before and the year before with those amazing viewing angles yet once it's real review time [with "real people" content] they haven't held up anywhere near what they 'appeared' to look like.But this year might be different as they have actually implemented a layer similar to X-Wide angle. Only coupled with their Ultra Black Elite filer there appear to be none of the side effects that the Sony is suffering from (still, compared to IPS the Z9F doesn't have IPS glow)

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post #15 of 26 Old 02-21-2019, 07:19 PM - Thread Starter
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I was looking at some TVs today & trying to compare the viewing angle of a couple LGs (with IPS) to Samsungs (with & without QLED). Of course the sets I wanted to compare were not next to each other.


The LGs appeared to have a wider viewing angle, but the difference between the LGs & the Samsungs was less than expected. I'll try to do more comparison shopping in the next few days.
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post #16 of 26 Old 02-21-2019, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by mithras1 View Post
Same as last year and the year before and the year before with those amazing viewing angles yet once it's real review time [with "real people" content] they haven't held up anywhere near what they 'appeared' to look like.But this year might be different as they have actually implemented a layer similar to X-Wide angle. Only coupled with their Ultra Black Elite filer there appear to be none of the side effects that the Sony is suffering from (still, compared to IPS the Z9F doesn't have IPS glow)

2018 had better viewing angles Tha previous models as well as lower tier models, but it was mostly with saturated content. Blacks were improved over previous years but there was a panel lottery. I had a 75q9fn and 65q9fn in my living room side by side. The off angle on the 75 was way better than the 65, both color and blacks.


BTW, the 1st Q90 review dropped today by HDguru. Viewing angles confirmed to be real and Sony's improved viewing angles look to be half-assed in comparison.


"Perhaps the biggest improvement in the Q90R series over last year’s Q9FN line is the improvement in wide angle viewing. The viewing angles get closer to OLED levels than we’ve seen from Samsung AV panels before. Samsung is using a new “Ultra Wide Angle” technology (internal name Quantum Light Control) that adds a prism layer to VA LCD panel sandwich to better focus light from the direct LED back light array to the RGB pixels without leakage into adjacent zones. This presents IPS-like viewing angles, holding onto color and contrast from off-axis perspectives. That color and contast is also better than typical IPS performance overall.

We continued to observe rich colors and deep blacks from angles greater than 60 degrees

The Samsung Q90R viewing angles reminded us of the good viewing angles in Sony’s Master Series Z9F with 4K VA LCD panels, but without the light leakage into letter box border frames we’ve observed in that technology.

We viewed the opening title squence from the 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray of Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 to check for light leakage and found even very bright light and color flashes near the border frame remained contained to the picture frame. Blooming also appeared to have been significantly reduced from the Q9FN series, which we had set up next to the Q90R."




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I was looking at some TVs today & trying to compare the viewing angle of a couple LGs (with IPS) to Samsungs (with & without QLED). Of course the sets I wanted to compare were not next to each other.


The LGs appeared to have a wider viewing angle, but the difference between the LGs & the Samsungs was less than expected. I'll try to do more comparison shopping in the next few days.

2019 Samsung Qleds arent on display yet. Get the Q80 for the ultra wide viewing angles.
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post #17 of 26 Old 02-24-2019, 02:44 AM - Thread Starter
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I understand that Samsung gets some or all of its larger panels from LG. If LG only makes IPS panels, then that means some Samsung TVs use IPS. Or does LG make VA panels just for Samsung?
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post #18 of 26 Old 02-24-2019, 05:20 AM
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Originally Posted by tubers View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
As Troy Mentioned, the 2019 Samsung Q80 and Q90 seem to have fixed the viewing angle issue, therefore IPS no longer needed.
Glad to know that the Q8 2019 will be getting the ultra wide.

How much is it?
Overpriced naturally and note that only the q80 and up have the wide angle feature. Don’t know how quickly or how often qleds get discounted but you’re paying OLED money for these things. Having said that I’m interested in these TVs if they live up to the hype. At least off angle viewing will be easy to verify at a local BB in a few weeks.
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post #19 of 26 Old 02-24-2019, 06:23 AM
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Overpriced naturally and note that only the q80 and up have the wide angle feature. Don’t know how quickly or how often qleds get discounted but you’re paying OLED money for these things. Having said that I’m interested in these TVs if they live up to the hype. At least off angle viewing will be easy to verify at a local BB in a few weeks.
Any idea if this new “wide viewing angle” is due to IPS panel or an IPS like coating on the screen that will destroy contrast ratio? From what I’m hearing the Sony x950g will have a wide viewing feature but the panel they will be using though not IPS will have a coating on it that will hinder contrast. Not good. Hope I find out sooner than later cuz I may just snag a 55” Q8f while they are on sale
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post #20 of 26 Old 02-24-2019, 11:12 AM
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I understand that Samsung gets some or all of its larger panels from LG. If LG only makes IPS panels, then that means some Samsung TVs use IPS. Or does LG make VA panels just for Samsung?

Samsung doesn't use any LG panels on their premium tvs. They had 1 IPS a few years back, a certain size JS7000.
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post #21 of 26 Old 04-19-2019, 05:58 PM
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The dramatically improved viewing angle of the high-end 2019 Samsung QLEDs was a pleasant surprise to me! I've been agonizing over the tradeoff between QLED viewing angle and OLED burn-in for months, but on Thursday I gained clarity. I am so glad that I decided to go look in person.

The 75" Q80 was $4999 at Video Only in Mountain View, CA, USA, with the option of an additional $500 trade-in on ANY other TV, working or not. They revise their prices every Friday, so that deal may no longer apply today. I'm thinking that I'll get one during the summer sales or maybe on Black Friday.

The salesman (who had the same difficulty I did in locating technical reviews on 2019 models and only a couple of weeks experience with the Q80 in the showroom prior to my arriving) was just as surprised as I was yesterday as he pointed out the very wide viewing angle of the Q80 in our side-by-side comparison versus the X900F and the Q8FN. I noticed minimal dimming with good contrast and color accuracy even at 45 degrees off axis from the Q80, even while comparing it from directly in front of the visibly inferior pop of the X900F.

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Thanks everyone for all the replies.
Welcome! Or rather, thank you for starting this thread.

Quote:
Or perhaps just forget about QLED.
That's what I did yesterday. Perhaps all OLED has to offer (now that Q80/Q90 QLED has a decided edge in HDR) is infinite blacks that just don't seem worth it (in a living room anyway). I can't use an OLED for my PC monitor or mobile device mirroring without destroying the exceptionally costly OLED either.

The new FALD algorithms have more zones and are less aggressive for fewer artifacts like blooming, plus the high-end LCD panels have native contrast exceeding 5000:1. Infinite blacks of OLED just don't measure up any more as a selling point IMO.

I expect OLED display technology to vanish into the same dustbin as burn-in-prone plasmas now that Samsung has high-contrast QLED with wide viewing angle and superior HDR brightness as well as superior color volume.

Quote:
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what you're being told here is just yearly Samsung hype
The Q80 seemed to dim very slightly off-axis but the color accuracy and contrast remained good IMO. It was a plainly noticeable improvement even to someone who hasn't been in a TV showroom for years and has minimal familiarity with panel tech. It's not hype!

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Like too washed out for the X900F unless I start jacking up color and live color.

https://www.rtings.com/tv/tools/comp...g-q8fn/585/598

sony's colors falls of earlier by 2 degrees but brightness falls off faster by a whopping 17 degrees for Q8FN.
The Q80 blew the doors off both the X900F and the Q8FN in viewing angle IMO, and the Sony looked relatively dull and dim with dirty bluish whites even from directly on-axis, sort of like a painting as opposed to real life, when displaying the bright outdoor demo.

Something else I noted was the reflections. The Q80 dispersed the salesman's bright white dot of the cell phone flashlight into a rainbow of dim spatially separated multicolored dots instead of bright white streaks. Both reflection patterns were shaped like a cross, but the Q80 rainbow-colored reflections were barely noticeable in comparison to even the white streaks on last year's Q8FN. I'd expect the wide viewing angle and excellent reflection attenuation with superb HDR brightness to make for an unrivaled living room experience.

Something somewhere said something about prisms in the new panels to preserve color purity? That might also account for some of the dispersion that I observed, diffraction-grating-like, of the multicolored dot reflections from a white LED phone flashlight?

I noticed the prior graphic on this thread that seems to indicate there's also a choice of whether to put the quantum dot layer before of after the LCD in the light path. Maybe putting the quantum dot layer after the LCD allows its diffuse re-radiated light to more closely resemble OLED dispersion, as opposed to shining the quantum dot light through the directional LCD?

Maybe adding a prism between the LCD and the quantum dots might contain the scatter from the LCD layer and maintain color purity at the quantum dot and color filter layers by shading dots that are not intended to be lit by their adjacent pixels, much like the shadow mask on a CRT?

Sorry, I've never studied panel tech so I don't know how all this works. I'm not just speculating, I'm outright guessing. I'd appreciate an expert chiming in and explaining this accurately as opposed to my speculation/guess.

I wrote off the steeply-discounted open-box Q9FN in the stockroom because its fragile optical interface cable to the One Connect box foretells of a potentially bricked TV if the cable gets damaged after it is no longer available. I already had that lack of availability with the failing LED light source on the Mistubishi Laservue. Besides, the Q9 doesn't have that very wide viewing angle AFAIK.

Video Only has the largest 8K 2019 Samsung in the showroom as well. I didn't pay much attention to a TV that I cannot afford, but the picture looked very good to me. I suppose with 8K upscaling from very low resolution sources like dropped-frame blocky broadcast or compressed blocky SD cable, I might notice fewer jaggies on 8K.

I don't expect to benefit at all from such a fully immersive retinal display when viewing 8K content versus viewing that same 8K content on a 4K display, unless I view from very close. (So much for a center speaker.) At that degree of immersion, acoustically transparent projection seems a better option for home theater, but it's not practical in my living room. So at least in my market, the Q80 seems like the best TV this year and a revolutionary improvement IMHO with its very wide viewing angle.

Someone must have asked RTINGS for a review of the Q80 by now. Any idea when we can expect one? I'm curious about its gray uniformity. The motion processing on all of the high-end TVs I checked yesterday seems adequate to my eyes and nearly indistinguishable from real life motion. I don't expect that to matter at all to me.
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post #22 of 26 Old 04-19-2019, 08:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the information, I'll have to check out a Q80.
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post #23 of 26 Old 04-20-2019, 09:14 AM
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IPS is not really ideal for TVs unless you really need good wide/off-centre performance (good viewing angles). The colour can be better but at the same time the blacks suck making them poor for movies. The [relatively] terrible contrast of IPS is what really makes for a bad television--meaning something in your living room you watch TV & movies on. For a computer monitor you're editing photos and stuff on, yes IPS is often the way to go (and considering most PC monitors are TN, IPS is considered a "premium" type monitor in that arena).

For a TV though, VA panels can have very good colour reproduction, and again what I think is more important for a TV is the much better contrast they offer compared to IPS.


If you're buying a large TV and need wide viewing angles I still wouldn't buy IPS in this day and age, I'd just go OLED provided burn-in is not a concern with your use. OLED is not exactly "cheap" but it's no longer super-expensive either. Since I have a PC connected in my living room I use a lot, this is what swings me away from OLED. The claims that some people have that burn "is not a huge problem" with PC/gaming use, it's still a possibility with the technology and it's permanent and not a risk I'm personally willing to take when spending a few thousand dollars.
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post #24 of 26 Old 04-20-2019, 08:53 PM
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Thanks for the information, I'll have to check out a Q80.
RTINGS published a review of the similar Q90 two days ago. Q90 is available in 82" and comes with the one-connect box for flush mounting.

The balance between contrast ratio and viewing angle seems optimal for a living room TV and the reflections are minimized, though as I noted, there's some rainbow effect in the reflections from that prism layer apparently. Notice that the tripod is (edit: almost) entirely absent from the reflections. I didn't see any visible reflections on the Q80 until the salesman shone his phone flashlight right on it from close range.



This Q90 review should get you within a stone's throw of the performance of the Q80 unless there's some major upgrade involved in the Q90 besides one-connect or some unresolved firmware issues in the Q80. Hopefully they will review the Q80 soon. It seemed to me like an excellent performer in the show room:

https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/samsung/q90-q90r
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post #25 of 26 Old 04-21-2019, 01:05 AM
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The Q80 and related 2019 models don’t support Dolby Vision. I don’t know what that is about, but if you plan on HDR it might be important to you. It’s giving me pause until I find out more,
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