2019 Samsung Q90R Owners Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 102 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3031 of 5113 Old 04-19-2019, 04:21 AM
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Well i made the jump and swapped my LG C8 for the Q90R. It came on Tuesday so had a couple of days to play about with it. Im far from an expert just an enthusiast but wow it puts the C8 to shame. Picture amazing compared to the dullness of OLED. It pops especially HDR Content. SDR content looks so much better. Colours amazing even the other half noticed the difference. Best swap i ever made. I read technical defaults by so called experts and they may be right but i just look at how the tv looks and impresses me and it wows me. Couple of things i dont like though. The remote is terrible. The smart one ok but the larger plastic one is rubbish. Not even got netflix or prime dedicated buttons on larger remote which bummed me cos i now cant even program my logitech harmony remote with the netflix or prime buttons so i can use alexa to voice control them. The smart remote has dedicated buttons but not IR so cant program them. And the freesync is useless to me as it will only work when hooked up directly to tv and not through my ONKYO 676e receiver so loss of of atmos and sound way too much of a compromise so staying through receiver unless updates can be done by onkyo or samsung, dont really know how it all works as i say im no expert. Think i may need a new receiver though to get this freesync working to its full potential. Shame cos it could be good. Overall as just a watcher of tv the Q90R is amazing. Any help with the freesync issue would be appreciated.
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post #3032 of 5113 Old 04-19-2019, 04:41 AM
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Possible you could share a couple of pics for comparison between the two sets for us to see how the difference in contrast is seen in real life? Havent been able to find pics of the two sets compared next to each other other than the test pics at Rtings.

After the review from rtings stating lower contrast ratio and lower color garmut I start wondering if this is what Quamtum Apotheosis was screaming about when comparing his Q90R with the Q8FN?

The real problem seen here is the fact that it is QA. Don't look at anything this attention seeking moron puts out. Stop giving him clicks so that he will disappear and not influence people.

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post #3033 of 5113 Old 04-19-2019, 04:45 AM
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Possible you could share a couple of pics for comparison between the two sets for us to see how the difference in contrast is seen in real life? Havent been able to find pics of the two sets compared next to each other other than the test pics at Rtings.
I no longer post pictures because my phone camera sucks and folks are scrutinizing at a low level of detail. I'm just reporting what my experience has been. Have you had a chance to see both TVs in person? If you have the opportunity to try one or both (from store with good return/exchange policy) that would be your best bet.
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post #3034 of 5113 Old 04-19-2019, 06:26 AM
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Agreed in general. However, the number of dimming zones also plays as a key factor here too. Basically it’s more the zones, the more likely that each of the stars distributed in that space could get an individual tiny zone which is lit for the star itself. All the other zones adjacent to it, in contrary, could still be dimmed anyway.

That being said, the more zones a panel gets, the less importance of the native contrast is. Am I understanding this correctly?
Right, as I mentioned earlier, the more zones you have, the more you can lean on the local dimming contrast, and the less critical the native contrast becomes. But another thing to remember, even at 480 zones, a single zone on a 65" set is close to a 2" square. So in the extreme example of a space shot with stars, even if you have a 2 in² area without any stars, that doesn't mean you can dim it all the way down. They have to transition them from areas of needed brightness to less brightness so the FALD array doesn't become visible (e.g., if one 2" square completely black, while the others that have stars being slightly grayish, that square becomes more apparent). Samsung chooses to lower the brightness of stars as a compromise. 480 zones is a high number relative to many other sets, but realistically, I'd think we'd need thousands of zones before native contrast becomes less important than local dimming contrast.

Another thing to consider: if native contrast is reduced, then color gamut/volume could also be reduced. If more backlight is bleeding through on a pixel that should be black, then it stands to reason that more green and blue is bleeding through those subpixels on a pixel that should be red. Now that we know the Q90 has less native contrast than the Q9FN, that explains why it also has a little less color gamut & volume.

All that to say, while the Q90 is a great FALD set, native contrast is still relevant. But there are still MANY other factors that are also relevant. The fact that the Q90 controls its zones better than the Q9FN is not one to be ignored.
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post #3035 of 5113 Old 04-19-2019, 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Darin View Post
Right, as I mentioned earlier, the more zones you have, the more you can lean on the local dimming contrast, and the less critical the native contrast becomes. But another thing to remember, even at 480 zones, a single zone on a 65" set is close to a 2" square. So in the extreme example of a space shot with stars, even if you have a 2 in² area without any stars, that doesn't mean you can dim it all the way down. They have to transition them from areas of needed brightness to less brightness so the FALD array doesn't become visible (e.g., if one 2" square completely black, while the others that have stars being slightly grayish, that square becomes more apparent). Samsung chooses to lower the brightness of stars as a compromise. 480 zones is a high number relative to many other sets, but realistically, I'd think we'd need thousands of zones before native contrast becomes less important than local dimming contrast.

Another thing to consider: if native contrast is reduced, then color gamut/volume could also be reduced. If more backlight is bleeding through on a pixel that should be black, then it stands to reason that more green and blue is bleeding through those subpixels on a pixel that should be red. Now that we know the Q90 has less native contrast than the Q9FN, that explains why it also has a little less color gamut & volume.

All that to say, while the Q90 is a great FALD set, native contrast is still relevant. But there are still MANY other factors that are also relevant. The fact that the Q90 controls its zones better than the Q9FN is not one to be ignored.
This would also imply that if the panel gets larger but the number of dimming zones stays the same then the performance arguably gets worse the larger you go, unlike on emissive type displays.
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post #3036 of 5113 Old 04-19-2019, 06:56 AM
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This would also imply that if the panel gets larger but the number of dimming zones stays the same then the performance arguably gets worse the larger you go, unlike on emissive type displays.
Some people look at it that way. I look at it more like the size of the zones stays relative to the size of the content, so the performance is the same. A couple of models out there have more zones on the larger variants. I would argue those perform better than their smaller counterparts with fewer zones.
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post #3037 of 5113 Old 04-19-2019, 07:26 AM
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Don't get me wrong, the z9d is superior I agree I'm just saying that it's not as bad as some people say it is. They make it sound like it's edge lit level.
The Z9F is still a great TV, I would no be seem throwing one away...... Far from an edge lit display.

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Well i made the jump and swapped my LG C8 for the Q90R. It came on Tuesday so had a couple of days to play about with it. Im far from an expert just an enthusiast but wow it puts the C8 to shame.
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post #3038 of 5113 Old 04-19-2019, 07:32 AM
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How far is the "back" of the TV to the wall with that mount?

How do you feel this mount would work, <<< click here >>> in comparison.
So the center of the TV is perfectly flat against my wall. The TV kinda hangs at first when wall mounting. We added "spacers to the bottom of the TV to level it up completely. The top of the TV is where you can see a clear Gap. It's not awful by any means, but you can't exactly call this "No-Gap" with a gap(due to the TV back design). I love it. I will take better pictures later. I think I'm a bit happy it's not completely against the wall since I want to eventually add Bias lighting.

Not sure how that would compare, If I had to guess... The top of my TV is about a little over an inch from the wall.
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post #3039 of 5113 Old 04-19-2019, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by superman11 View Post
The settings on the ratings review are great. I don’t know how they have Movie mode with backlight at 13 and Local dimming on low. That’s super dark no matter the lighting in the room. But pushing the backlight up to 40 or so helps fix that without affecting PQ.

I normally don’t like Warm2 because of how yellow/brown whites look, but using their 2 point white balance settings fixes that. I preferred Native color space over their custom settings but otherwise I’m happy with how it looks in both bright and dark scenes.

I only wish that there was a difference between Low and Standard in the local dimming option. High loses sharpness for me and low is a little on the dim side. A middle ground would be nice, but I’ve already gotten used to it.
Yes, I want to enjoy my TV brightness. I will check out these settings tonight. I'm having a bad experience of "darkness" from watching GoT. The dark scenes are brutal on "Natural". I switched to movie mode and it seemed like my brightness was completely gone lol. Not sure how to handle this.

I think I've been on this forum for about a month now and just got spoiled. Thanks guys.
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post #3040 of 5113 Old 04-19-2019, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superman11 View Post
The settings on the ratings review are great. I don’t know how they have Movie mode with backlight at 13 and Local dimming on low. That’s super dark no matter the lighting in the room. But pushing the backlight up to 40 or so helps fix that without affecting PQ.

I normally don’t like Warm2 because of how yellow/brown whites look, but using their 2 point white balance settings fixes that. I preferred Native color space over their custom settings but otherwise I’m happy with how it looks in both bright and dark scenes.

I only wish that there was a difference between Low and Standard in the local dimming option. High loses sharpness for me and low is a little on the dim side. A middle ground would be nice, but I’ve already gotten used to it.
Yes, I want to enjoy my TV brightness. I will check out these settings tonight. I'm having a bad experience of "darkness" from watching GoT. The dark scenes are brutal on "Natural". I switched to movie mode and it seemed like my brightness was completely gone lol. Not sure how to handle this.

I think I've been on this forum for about a month
now and just got spoiled. Thanks guys.
Movie mode with local dimming on High isn’t too dim for me. Change gamma to 2.2 also helps a bit. It might take a bit for your eyes to adjust but it’s better IMO. Natural sometimes looks good but overall is very inaccurate. If you can’t get Movie the way you like in terms of Brightness. Standard is the only viable option. But there’s a reason why the pros go with Movie mode, it definitely looks great.

Rewatched GoT last night with those Rtings settings and was very impressed.
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post #3041 of 5113 Old 04-19-2019, 08:04 AM
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Movie mode with local dimming on High isn’t too dim for me. Change gamma to 2.2 also helps a bit. It might take a bit for your eyes to adjust but it’s better IMO. Natural sometimes looks good but overall is very inaccurate. If you can’t get Movie the way you like in terms of Brightness. Standard is the only viable option. But there’s a reason why the pros go with Movie mode, it definitely looks great.

Rewatched GoT last night with those Rtings settings and was very impressed.
We are like TV brothers from another mother! Our settings seems to continue to be very aligned. The RTINGS recommendations were helpful.

I just switched color space from Custom (tried my own and RTINGS) to Native after not liking Auto initially. Native fixed blue crush/clipping on test patterns that Auto or Custom didn't resolve.

What do you use for Color Space?

2019 82" Q90R, 2016 55" and 65" KS8000, Denon S720 AVR
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post #3042 of 5113 Old 04-19-2019, 08:17 AM
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Movie mode with local dimming on High isn’t too dim for me. Change gamma to 2.2 also helps a bit. It might take a bit for your eyes to adjust but it’s better IMO. Natural sometimes looks good but overall is very inaccurate. If you can’t get Movie the way you like in terms of Brightness. Standard is the only viable option. But there’s a reason why the pros go with Movie mode, it definitely looks great.

Rewatched GoT last night with those Rtings settings and was very impressed.
Ideally, I want movie mode with great brightness. I will try Rtings settings tonight.
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Ideally, I want movie mode with great brightness
You always can put backlight brighness up in any mode.
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post #3044 of 5113 Old 04-19-2019, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by superman11 View Post
Movie mode with local dimming on High isn’t too dim for me. Change gamma to 2.2 also helps a bit. It might take a bit for your eyes to adjust but it’s better IMO. Natural sometimes looks good but overall is very inaccurate. If you can’t get Movie the way you like in terms of Brightness. Standard is the only viable option. But there’s a reason why the pros go with Movie mode, it definitely looks great.

Rewatched GoT last night with those Rtings settings and was very impressed.
We are like TV brothers from another mother! Our settings seems to continue to be very aligned. The RTINGS recommendations were helpful.

I just switched color space from Custom (tried my own and RTINGS) to Native after not liking Auto initially. Native fixed blue crush/clipping on test patterns that Auto or Custom didn't resolve.

What do you use for Color Space?

2019 82" Q90R, 2016 55" and 65" KS8000, Denon S720 AVR
I use Native. I tried the suggested ones and changed it right back to Native. Their 2 point white balance settings are a godsend. I didn’t like Warm2 until I changed that one simple setting.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by superman11 View Post
Movie mode with local dimming on High isn’t too dim for me. Change gamma to 2.2 also helps a bit. It might take a bit for your eyes to adjust but it’s better IMO. Natural sometimes looks good but overall is very inaccurate. If you can’t get Movie the way you like in terms of Brightness. Standard is the only viable option. But there’s a reason why the pros go with Movie mode, it definitely looks great.

Rewatched GoT last night with those Rtings settings and was very impressed.
Ideally, I want movie mode with great brightness. I will try Rtings settings tonight.
I watched GoT with the backlight in the 40s and Local dimming on Low as a test run. It was slightly dim but ultimately I might prefer it because the detail is much better and I watch in a darker room. I will try with Local dimming on High and a lower backlight tonight to see which is better for me.

But pushing the backlight up helps a lot and doesn’t mess with the PQ.
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post #3045 of 5113 Old 04-19-2019, 08:43 AM
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You always can put backlight brighness up in any mode.
I'm going to watch Infinity War with my kids tonight, you're suggesting place movie mode on and just increase "backlight brightness"?





I have a Pana UB820. Does anyone have recommended settings for that player specific to this TV?
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post #3046 of 5113 Old 04-19-2019, 08:56 AM
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Possible you could share a couple of pics for comparison between the two sets for us to see how the difference in contrast is seen in real life? Havent been able to find pics of the two sets compared next to each other other than the test pics at Rtings.



After the review from rtings stating lower contrast ratio and lower color garmut I start wondering if this is what Quamtum Apotheosis was screaming about when comparing his Q90R with the Q8FN?



At 3:00, the wider color garmut and higher contrast, deeper blacks (black crush) vs better shadow details in the Q90R, isnt that what he observed - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dil5J8-SYtE
A name from a hack that does side by sides with color set to 45 out of 50 and shows nothing but cartoons should never be dropped in any serious discussion. Color is better than last year. Vincent's q9fn review points to severe sdr undersaturation whereas no such problem on the q90r. These lower color volume readings only affect a calibrated movie mode with color space set to auto. Switch the color space to native, or switch to natural or standard mode and the color volume pops with more vibrancy and richness than last year.
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post #3047 of 5113 Old 04-19-2019, 09:14 AM
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Don't get me wrong, the z9d is superior I agree I'm just saying that it's not as bad as some people say it is. They make it sound like it's edge lit level.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Fair enough my friend. That is true. The Z9F, while some steps forwards, is some step backwards, but definitely not into the edgelit abyss (X930E excluded ).
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post #3048 of 5113 Old 04-19-2019, 10:07 AM
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Movie Mode

Reviews use "Movie Mode" and have helpful settings recommendations & changes.

But most all comments by owners prior to the reviews used either "Standard" or "Native" (not Movie Mode for regular viewing (Cable, Apps, etc. - i.e. non-movies).
For regular viewing ( (Cable, Apps, etc.), are people switching to "Movie" with the customization recommended by reviews?
Or is "Movie" primarily being used for watching movies?
If most are not switching to "Movie" for regular viewing, aren't the recommended changes for "Movie" sometimes invalid for watching in non-movie mode?
(and thus, we should still try various adjustments for settings like those recommended on the forum and also look for upcoming settings recommendations for viewing in non-movie mode that will be forthcoming from calibrators)?
Thanks
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post #3049 of 5113 Old 04-19-2019, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by guddug View Post
Reviews use "Movie Mode" and have helpful settings recommendations & changes.

But most all comments by owners prior to the reviews used either "Standard" or "Native" (not Movie Mode for regular viewing (Cable, Apps, etc. - i.e. non-movies).
For regular viewing ( (Cable, Apps, etc.), are people switching to "Movie" with the customization recommended by reviews?
Or is "Movie" primarily being used for watching movies?
If most are not switching to "Movie" for regular viewing, aren't the recommended changes for "Movie" sometimes invalid for watching in non-movie mode?
(and thus, we should still try various adjustments for settings like those recommended on the forum and also look for upcoming settings recommendations for viewing in non-movie mode that will be forthcoming from calibrators)?
Thanks
Movie mode for everything with some light adjustments/calibration will provide the most realistic and accurate picture.

It's your personal preference that truly matters, not what I or others think is the 'best'. So choose to try, or not, the advice provided by some in this forum and elsewhere.

2019 82" Q90R, 2016 55" and 65" KS8000, Denon S720 AVR
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post #3050 of 5113 Old 04-19-2019, 10:29 AM
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Movie mode for everything with some light adjustments/calibration will provide the most realistic and accurate picture.

It's your personal preference that truly matters, not what I or others think is the 'best'. So choose to try, or not, the advice provided by some in this forum and elsewhere.

2019 82" Q90R, 2016 55" and 65" KS8000, Denon S720 AVR
I want to use movie mode, I just need help on brightness levels.
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post #3051 of 5113 Old 04-19-2019, 10:48 AM
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A name from a hack that does side by sides with color set to 45 out of 50 and shows nothing but cartoons should never be dropped in any serious discussion. Color is better than last year. Vincent's q9fn review points to severe sdr undersaturation whereas no such problem on the q90r. These lower color volume readings only affect a calibrated movie mode with color space set to auto. Switch the color space to native, or switch to natural or standard mode and the color volume pops with more vibrancy and richness than last year.
Agree with your general view of QA. However, it sounds like some of the things he observed like higher brightness and wider color volume vs more black details were equal with the findings from Rtings and other sites.

Thanks for your suggestions on the color space settings, will try that. Wouldn´t native or standard mode on Q9FN then beat Q90R in color volume?

What about the depth of black on Q9FN vs Q90R, will the black be deeper more inky than on the Q9 vs Q90? Is that what Rtings found when they say the black uniformity is better on the Q9? Thank you.

As said previously I owned 2 Q9FN which I returned due to DSE. For me it has been worth updgrading to Q90R because of much lesser DSE.

Last edited by zecco; 04-19-2019 at 10:55 AM.
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post #3052 of 5113 Old 04-19-2019, 10:52 AM
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My living room lights reflecting on my TV make me cringe so hard...
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post #3053 of 5113 Old 04-19-2019, 11:09 AM
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Agree with your general view of QA. However, it sounds like some of the things he observed like higher brightness and wider color volume vs more black details were equal with the findings from Rtings and other sites.



Thanks for your suggestions on the color space settings, will try that. Wouldn´t native or standard mode on Q9FN then beat Q90R in color volume?



What about the depth of black on Q9FN vs Q90R, will the black be deeper more inky than on the Q9 vs Q90? Is that what Rtings found when they say the black uniformity is better on the Q9? Thank you.



As said previously I owned 2 Q9FN which I returned due to DSE. For me it has been worth updgrading to Q90R because of much lesser DSE.
Rtings said that the measurement difference is barely noticeable in real life viewing. Trust me when I tell you. There is zero noticeable difference in decrease of blacks, color volume and brightness. You would have to have them side by side or connected to a meter to notice. You do notice a much more detailed, richer, natural, sharper and cleaner image for sure though.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
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Originally Posted by EdFlo View Post
I want to use movie mode, I just need help on brightness levels.
Leave Brightness setting at 0 since that affects the picture quality and has been confirmed by many to be the best default setting.

For Backlight, I started with default 22 for SDR. I like it with moderate daylight behind me in my room. At night, I find it too strong so I am trying 13 now as suggested by RTINGS.com.

2019 82" Q90R, 2016 55" and 65" KS8000, Denon S720 AVR

Last edited by Terminader; 04-19-2019 at 11:24 AM.
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post #3055 of 5113 Old 04-19-2019, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by EdFlo View Post
My living room lights reflecting on my TV make me cringe so hard...
Turn off the lights

2019 82" Q90R, 2016 55" and 65" KS8000, Denon S720 AVR
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post #3056 of 5113 Old 04-19-2019, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Terminader View Post
Leave Brightness setting at 0 since that affects the picture quality and has been confirmed by many to be the best default setting.

For Backlight, I starated with default 22 for SDR. I like it with moderate daylight behind me in my room. At night, I find it too strong so I am trying 13 now as suggested by RTINGS.com.

2019 82" Q90R, 2016 55" and 65" KS8000, Denon S720 AVR
On my panel, brightness at 0 is correct for everything except Hdr standard mode. The correct setting for Hdr in standard is +1 on mine.

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65” Sony A9G (on order) | 65” Samsung Q90r | 55” LG C8 | 65” Sony Z9D (R.I.P.) | 55” Sony x850b. Denon s940e | Bose soundbar 700 | Apple TV 4K | Panasonic UB820 | PS4 | Xbox One X
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post #3057 of 5113 Old 04-19-2019, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdFlo View Post
My living room lights reflecting on my TV make me cringe so hard...
personally i never turn on the main ceiling light in the living room, at least not while watching



bias lighting behind TV + some ~side lamp (that doesnt cast light on the TV directly) is enough
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post #3058 of 5113 Old 04-19-2019, 11:40 AM
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personally i never turn on the main ceiling light in the living room, at least not while watching
+ some ~side lamp (that doesnt cast light on the TV directly) is enough
I do the same.
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post #3059 of 5113 Old 04-19-2019, 11:54 AM
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Greetings,

Just got a confirmation that my new 65" Q90R has shipped. It will replace my old PN64D plasma. I am unsure what kind of difference to expect, but i'm excited.

I have to replace my receiver as well, so I got the DENON AVR-X3500H. Was that a good choice?

I'm not an expert by any means, just want to make sure I can exploit my equipment as much as i can with the budget that I have.

Thanks and take care everyone!
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post #3060 of 5113 Old 04-19-2019, 12:02 PM
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we don't calibrate HDR.
I'm curious why you don't?
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