2019 Samsung Q90R Owners Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 127 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3781 of 5204 Old 05-08-2019, 06:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Sensamix View Post
So now flatpanelshd professional review of the Q90R states that contrast is worse than on the Q9FN, which is exactly what I've said previously.

Do you believe it now that a professional reviewer has said it?
You are missing the point entirely. Every reviewer that has measured contrast (using standard dark-room contrast measurement techniques) has measured lower native contrast on the Q90R compared to the Q9FN. Everybody here already knows that. It has been discussed over and over. You are not presenting new information. Thing is, every reviewer who measured lower contrast on the Q90R also declared the Q90R to have superior picture quality. Why is that? Because higher contrast measurement ≠ better picture quality. To understand all of the reasons for that, read the reviews or educate yourself on these forums.

Maybe now you understand why people here are annoyed whenever somebody new pops up here declaring "lower contrast!!!1!1!!" (who seem to be mostly Q9FN owners who feel a need to justify their ownership), thinking they have just had some sort of mic drop moment and expecting everybody else to stop and say "hey, he's right, the Q9FN has better native contrast measurements so it really is the better TV! Thanks for enlightening us, maestro!". Sorry that ain't happening. You can keep harping on contrast, but it is not new information, and it is not relevant information outside of the overall picture quality discussion which the professional reviews and the owners here address very well.
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post #3782 of 5204 Old 05-08-2019, 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by StevieG View Post
You are missing the point entirely. Every reviewer that has measured contrast (using standard dark-room contrast measurement techniques) has measured lower native contrast on the Q90R compared to the Q9FN. Everybody here already knows that. It has been discussed over and over. You are not presenting new information. Thing is, every reviewer who measured lower contrast on the Q90R also declared the Q90R to have superior picture quality. Why is that? Because higher contrast measurement ≠ better picture quality. To understand all of the reasons for that, read the reviews or educate yourself on these forums.



Maybe now you understand why people here are annoyed whenever somebody new pops up here declaring "lower contrast!!!1!1!!" (who seem to be mostly Q9FN owners who feel a need to justify their ownership), thinking they have just had some sort of mic drop moment and expecting everybody else to stop and say "hey, he's right, the Q9FN has better native contrast measurements so it really is the better TV! Thanks for enlightening us, maestro!". Sorry that ain't happening. You can keep harping on contrast, but it is not new information, and it is not relevant information outside of the overall picture quality discussion which the professional reviews and the owners here address very well.
Hey maestro, it's a free world. We can discuss whatever we want.

Other people aside from me are also commenting on it just now.

Jeez.

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post #3783 of 5204 Old 05-08-2019, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Dimon.Zorg View Post
FlatpanelHD review that was mentioned above.
Not much worse. That's your opinion.

"Our contrast evaluation reveal that Q90R' LCD panel has a lower native contrast ratio than last year's Q9FN. From our fellow TV reviewer colleagues, we know that Q90R without dynamic contrast enabled (must be disabled in the service menu) has a more stable contrast ratio as backlight intensifies but that it is also roughly 25% lower than last year's Q90R, which is caused by a slightly higher black level. We believe that it a result of Samsung's wide viewing angle technology."

Your Lamborghini has a "much worse" acceleration time from 0 to 100 mph than my Tesla. That sounds real horrible, right?

Another reason why this is an owner's discussion not a comparison forum!

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post #3784 of 5204 Old 05-08-2019, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Donald Graham View Post
So why are you considering buying the Q90r?

Also, if there is no black crush, all the professional reviewers must have some secret conspiracy. Why do you think that is?
You're seriously talking about an issue from a year ago when the TV was released?

So you're saying Samsung has had a whole year to fix that and haven't?

Well

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The Q90r even has some black crush. This is due to Fald limitations.

You are lurking in this thread for what purpose? I am generally curious. Seems strange to pick arguments in a forum for people that own a TV or are considering buying the TV when you are neither
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Last edited by Donald Graham; 05-08-2019 at 07:32 AM. Reason: Typo
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post #3785 of 5204 Old 05-08-2019, 07:15 AM
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Not much worse. That's your opinion
It's not my opinion. Measurements from FlatPanelHD review...
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post #3786 of 5204 Old 05-08-2019, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Donald Graham View Post
The Q90r even has some black crush. This is due to Fald limitations.

You are lurking in this thread for what purpose? I generally curious. Seems strange to pick arguments in a forum for people that own a TV or are considering buying the TV when you are neither
I'm reading MANY threads of several TVs cause I like technology and that way I see the positives and negatives of each TV.

Again, how is that a problem for you and other people here?

If you're here in these forums prepare yourself to read different opinions than yours. Literally there's opinions from non owners every page! And all of them are useful thankfully, not just the ones from owners. That's the way I see it.

Imagine in real life if no one could talk about stuff they don't own! You would be out of every conservation ever!

Oh, and you're wrong! I'm always considering buying something better. That's why I read every thread!

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post #3787 of 5204 Old 05-08-2019, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Terminader View Post
Not much worse. That's your opinion.

"Our contrast evaluation reveal that Q90R' LCD panel has a lower native contrast ratio than last year's Q9FN. From our fellow TV reviewer colleagues, we know that Q90R without dynamic contrast enabled (must be disabled in the service menu) has a more stable contrast ratio as backlight intensifies but that it is also roughly 25% lower than last year's Q90R, which is caused by a slightly higher black level. We believe that it a result of Samsung's wide viewing angle technology."

Your Lamborghini has a "much worse" acceleration time from 0 to 100 mph than my Tesla. That sounds real horrible, right?
Great comparision, you are right though, there is more to a TV them contrast ratio......
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post #3788 of 5204 Old 05-08-2019, 08:17 AM
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Great comparision, you are right though, there is more to a TV them contrast ratio......
Absolutely, but it's one of the three most important aspects of a TV IMO, specially a LED one.

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post #3789 of 5204 Old 05-08-2019, 08:44 AM
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As I understand it, it doesn't conform to HDR10, but that doesn't mean it isn't HDR.
That is interesting. Are you or anyone able to output in 10bit on their PC to he Samsung Q90R in the NVIDIA control panel? If so what NVIDIA driver version are you running and what graphics card are you using?
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post #3790 of 5204 Old 05-08-2019, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Sensamix View Post
So now flatpanelshd professional review of the Q90R states that contrast is worse than on the Q9FN, which is exactly what I've said previously.

Do you believe it now that a professional reviewer has said it?

Oh God wait, someone that's not a professional reviewer said the same? Then we must not believe him! Only professional reviewers opinions matter!

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You obviously cherry picked the items that fit the justification agenda but are failing to mention that they rated post calibrated sdr contrast for the q90r 8545:1 and the q9fn 5372:1. This means that on the q9fn you have to raise the blacks in order to show some of that shadow detail that is lost, thus throwing that high contrast you are bragging about, out the window. Nobody EVER complained that the z9d had lower contrast ratio than sonys' step down models. And the experts obviously are not complaining about the contrast on this set. So we are supposed to be listening to someone who is supposed to be lurking around the thread of the set he owns, but instead hangs out here trying to justify a purchase?

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post #3791 of 5204 Old 05-08-2019, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Dimon.Zorg View Post
It's just a matter of settings.
You do know that replying to someone who professionally calibrates these things, right? Nice try though. Glad you are enjoying the Barney skin tones on your q9fn, but this is the q90r owners thread.

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post #3792 of 5204 Old 05-08-2019, 09:37 AM
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Are you or anyone able to output in 10bit on their PC to he Samsung Q90R in the NVIDIA control panel?
RGB 10-bit, no. I have a 2080 Ti. I don't know if the Q90R doesn't support it, or Nvidia doesn't. I've seen some claims that Nvidia does a software lockout of it on desktop cards, only enabling it on Quadro cards, but I don't know if that's true. For me it doesn't matter, because I want to run at 60Hz, and RGB (4:4:4) 10-bit would exceed the max bandwidth, so YCbCr 4:2:2 is really my only option.
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post #3793 of 5204 Old 05-08-2019, 10:45 AM
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Hi guys, just got my 65 q90r a couple days ago, really love it. Today I was watching for the first time during the day with some light on the tv, the anti glare is amazing but I can see some banding on the screen even when off, only when light is reflecting. Does anyone else see that? Hoping its just the anti glare coating. I dont see it when I can control the light or at night
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post #3794 of 5204 Old 05-08-2019, 11:02 AM
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Hi guys, just got my 65 q90r a couple days ago, really love it. Today I was watching for the first time during the day with some light on the tv, the anti glare is amazing but I can see some banding on the screen even when off, only when light is reflecting. Does anyone else see that? Hoping its just the anti glare coating. I dont see it when I can control the light or at night
Yes, if you stare enough at the screen when it is off while looking at it from a horizontal angle, it doesn't look like a smooth glass window. I don't know what that means or if it matters so I've decided to only stare at the TV when it is on.

I don't see any of that during normal viewing, even off angle or with various levels of background light.

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post #3795 of 5204 Old 05-08-2019, 11:20 AM
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I first noticed when the TV was on this morning and then saw it a little more when it was off, I know kind of see it from all angles, but when I controlled the light I didn't notice it, so I'm just assuming it's the anti reflective filter, I love the TV, was just wondering if it was normal
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post #3796 of 5204 Old 05-08-2019, 12:50 PM
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The arguments over the Q9FN vs. Q90R picture quality are interesting, since I had a 65" Q9FN for about 6 months. When it failed, Samsung (after a couple of months of battling) decided to replace it with a Q90R. I was not able to compare them side by side, so my comments are based on memory of what the Q9FN was like.


Most of the discussion has been about the lower native contrast of the Q90R. I don't doubt the measurements, but question their importance to actual viewing. The lower contrast ratio is mostly caused by a slight increase in the light output when the output should be zero. I wonder if the human eye can even detect the difference. This is especially true when you consider that most viewing environments are not totally black. The reflections could completely mask the amount of light leaking through the LCD's. The blacks on the Q90R look at least as dark as I recall those on the Q9FN. Perhaps the new reflective coating on the Q90R reduces the reflected light enough to compensate for the lower native contrast.


Color reproduction seems to be a little better than I remember on the Q9FN. DSE on the Q9FN was only noticeable when I looked for it during a hockey game. On the Q90R, I can't see it at all.


Some have talked about dark blue edges. I never saw them in normal content. The other day, a very bright white image filled the screen. Those blue edges were visible, especially at the bottom of the screen. But, even though I know what to look for now, I don't see them in normal content, even hockey, with the white ice extending to the edge of the screen.



One thing that surprised me on the Q90R was the amount of overscan. I used the Digital Video Essentials HD Basics Blu-Ray, mainly to look at the gray ramps. The overscan pattern showed quite a bit of overscan. Changing Fit-to-Screen to On, reduced the overscan a lot. I have checked this with every source that I have, and if Fit-to-Screen is Off or Auto, then there is overscan.


For the record, I am using Rtings settings, except for the SDR backlight. I currently have it up a couple of notches from their setting, but am still trying to find a compromise that will work both with daylight and nighttime viewing.


Overall, I find that the Q90R gives a better viewing experience. We were happy with the Q9FN, until it failed, and are even more pleased with the Q90R.
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post #3797 of 5204 Old 05-08-2019, 02:56 PM
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Good post @gschroeder

That’s just it, of all the people I know of who’ve owned both the Q9FN and the Q90R, I don’t recall a single one who preferred the Q9FN. That speaks volumes right there if you ask me.

Anyway, my 82” Q90R finally arrives tomorrow. Can’t wait to get the beast up and running!
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Samsung 82” Q90R * Denon X4500H * 5.2.4 Atmos * Xbox One X * PS4 Pro
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post #3798 of 5204 Old 05-08-2019, 03:12 PM
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Good post @gschroeder

That’s just it, of all the people I know of who’ve owned both the Q9FN and the Q90R, I don’t recall a single one who preferred the Q9FN. That speaks volumes right there if you ask me.

Anyway, my 82” Q90R finally arrives tomorrow. Can’t wait to get the beast up and running!
My experience with both sets goes as follows. All the step-backs that were made were only slight and not really noticeable. Most of the improvements, on the other hand, are big ones and are very noticeable.
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post #3799 of 5204 Old 05-08-2019, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by xocpixel View Post
I first noticed when the TV was on this morning and then saw it a little more when it was off, I know kind of see it from all angles, but when I controlled the light I didn't notice it, so I'm just assuming it's the anti reflective filter, I love the TV, was just wondering if it was normal
I think your intuition is right. The filter diffuses light horizontally and that probably accounts for what you're seeing. The good news is that the backlight is super powerful so if you turn it up a few click in the day it will probably disappear for you.
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post #3800 of 5204 Old 05-08-2019, 05:03 PM
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Good post @gschroeder

That’s just it, of all the people I know of who’ve owned both the Q9FN and the Q90R, I don’t recall a single one who preferred the Q9FN. That speaks volumes right there if you ask me.

Anyway, my 82” Q90R finally arrives tomorrow. Can’t wait to get the beast up and running!
3 of us have the 82" Q90R coming tomorrow cheers!
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post #3801 of 5204 Old 05-08-2019, 07:27 PM
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Yet another glowing professional review. This one is very detailed and goes very much in depth. You would need to use Google translate to convert the review to English from Polish.

https://hdtvpolska.com/samsung-q90r-...orii-firmy/18/

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post #3802 of 5204 Old 05-08-2019, 08:11 PM
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You obviously cherry picked the items that fit the justification agenda but are failing to mention that they rated post calibrated sdr contrast for the q90r 8545:1 and the q9fn 5372:1.
Cause it was calibrated at different light output 188 vs 230nits.

But look at HDR calibration. We see numbers black level/contrast at 800nits:

Q9FN - 0.05 / 15960:1
Q90R - 0.105 / 7619:1

Q90R results are TWO TIMES WORSE than Q9FN . Black level 0.1 is disaster. It's more like awful blacks that IPS panel can achieve in SDR.
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post #3803 of 5204 Old 05-08-2019, 08:23 PM
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With everyone concerned about the lower contrast on the Q90. I had to go back and find the comments in this video that Vincent Teoh responded to. Definitly puts this contrast issue in perspective with what the human eye can perceive.

Youtube Reivew - Samsung Q90R (Q90) 4K QLED TV Review


Coloss: No comments on that crappy contrast ratio at 6:19?

HDTVTest: Coloss Disagree the contrast is crappy. Contrast perception is not linear, and current contrast methodologies are insufficient to give the full picture.

Coloss: Ok, I admit, it's not crappy, but black lum is 2x of last year models. Anyway, it's worth mentioning there's a cost for those viewing angles.

HDTVTest: Coloss Again, measurements do not 100% correlate with perception because of human eyes' non-linear perception + local dimming boost. 2x the measured figure does not mean 2x shallower perceived blacks.
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post #3804 of 5204 Old 05-08-2019, 09:45 PM
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With everyone concerned about the lower contrast on the Q90. I had to go back and find the comments in this video that Vincent Teoh responded to. Definitly puts this contrast issue in perspective with what the human eye can perceive.



Youtube Reivew - Samsung Q90R (Q90) 4K QLED TV Review





Coloss: No comments on that crappy contrast ratio at 6:19?



HDTVTest: Coloss Disagree the contrast is crappy. Contrast perception is not linear, and current contrast methodologies are insufficient to give the full picture.



Coloss: Ok, I admit, it's not crappy, but black lum is 2x of last year models. Anyway, it's worth mentioning there's a cost for those viewing angles.



HDTVTest: Coloss Again, measurements do not 100% correlate with perception because of human eyes' non-linear perception + local dimming boost. 2x the measured figure does not mean 2x shallower perceived blacks.
The salty crowd will call their product superior even when every single professional says otherwise. Better to just ignore them. Once this thread fills up with more new real owners, they'll eventually give up on their bias agenda and crawl back to their hole.

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post #3805 of 5204 Old 05-08-2019, 09:56 PM
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3 of us have the 82" Q90R coming tomorrow cheers!


Heck I really hate that Samsung does not sell the 82” model here. Totally jealous of this!!

If they had announced the 82” model in China, my longtime struggling between Q90 and any other Sony models would have been non-existing at all.
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post #3806 of 5204 Old 05-09-2019, 12:35 AM
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It is true that the Samsung Q90r has an inferior contrast and black level to the q9fn but like all figures they should not be taken at face value.
What is important is how the picture appears to the viewer.
Most owners of the Q90r,many of them former Q9f owners praise the contrast level which proves that figures and reality are often not the same.
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post #3807 of 5204 Old 05-09-2019, 02:35 AM
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It is true that the Samsung Q90r has an inferior contrast and black level to the q9fn but like all figures they should not be taken at face value.
What is important is how the picture appears to the viewer.
Most owners of the Q90r,many of them former Q9f owners praise the contrast level which proves that figures and reality are often not the same.
Let them insist on their numbers without seeing or owning any of the tvs. They still dont get, that thw PQ of a tv with really good fald, is not that dependent on native contrast as others.

So let them concentrate on their numbers. I had the direct comparison between my old ks9800 and now the q90r and can say that the q90r has ink black, minimal blooming and overall a better picture. ks9800 was calibrated with a meter and hcfr, just if someone of the number people wants to jump in here, that i just adjusted it badly.

btw. this is not to the people who ask and may have concerns, its towards the people who have seen it in a store yet insist on having superior knowledge about it, or people who call the contrast a desaster.

I'm a person who has nor problems of sending a tv back and test an exchange one due to panel lottery or even go to a complete other manufacturer, yet it was not neccessary after intense testing in the first two weeks.

its still an lcd, so oled fanboys still wont be happy as you definitly will see minimal blooming at least, but you gotta accept that to benefit from the advantages of the q90r
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post #3808 of 5204 Old 05-09-2019, 04:54 AM
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Let them insist on their numbers without seeing or owning any of the tvs. They still dont get, that thw PQ of a tv with really good fald, is not that dependent on native contrast as others.

So let them concentrate on their numbers. I had the direct comparison between my old ks9800 and now the q90r and can say that the q90r has ink black, minimal blooming and overall a better picture. ks9800 was calibrated with a meter and hcfr, just if someone of the number people wants to jump in here, that i just adjusted it badly.

btw. this is not to the people who ask and may have concerns, its towards the people who have seen it in a store yet insist on having superior knowledge about it, or people who call the contrast a desaster.

I'm a person who has nor problems of sending a tv back and test an exchange one due to panel lottery or even go to a complete other manufacturer, yet it was not neccessary after intense testing in the first two weeks.

its still an lcd, so oled fanboys still wont be happy as you definitly will see minimal blooming at least, but you gotta accept that to benefit from the advantages of the q90r
I am curious....what are the advantages of the Q90R?

Like you I own a KS9800( not being used anymore)....and also a Sony Z9D and an LG E7 OLED

btw...salty crowd in this thread
It amazes me how people take a TV so seriously

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post #3809 of 5204 Old 05-09-2019, 05:11 AM
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I'm definitely not salty. I have an amazing 82" panel with very very minimal DSE, great viewing angles, contrast better than a Z9D, and great colors out of the box. 😎
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post #3810 of 5204 Old 05-09-2019, 05:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slickman View Post
I'm definitely not salty. I have an amazing 82" panel with very very minimal DSE, great viewing angles, contrast better than a Z9D, and great colors out of the box.
I also have an 82Q90R, and my set is near perfect to my level of scrutiny
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