2019 Samsung Q90R Owners Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 148 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4411 of 5117 Old 06-06-2019, 10:29 PM
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I have a couple of questions for TV experts and/or people who own both the Q90R and the Q9FN.

RTINGs says that the Q9FN can deliver deeper blacks, and that it has a contrast ratio of 19000 : 1 with local dimming, vs 11000 : 1 for the Q90R.

My questions...

Both the Q90R and the Q9FN turn off the backlight for deep blacks (most the time). So the screen is effectively off, or least that's what it looks like to me in a pitch black room(I can't detect the difference between the screen and the black frame). So if they effectively turn the screen off, how can one deliver deeper blacks than the other? Screen off is screen off. Are they talking about overall black levels? And if so, how does that work? Did they do this test and make this conclusion with local dimming disabled?

As to the local dimming contrast ratio, I think I know the answer to this question...if the backlight is off in black areas, how can the Q9FN have such a higher contrast ratio? Is it that its whites are brighter? And to possibly answer my own question, is that because the Q90R has a more aggressive local dimming algorithm that darkens whites in order to prevent blooming? In their local dimming video, you can see more of a halo around white objects with the Q9FN than with the Q90R. If I got it right, then these numbers are deceiving and should be explained/qualified. Because if the white part of their test pattern were larger, then they could get a higher contrast ratio with the Q90R since the local dimming wouldn't attack a large white object as much as as it would a small white cross-hair.

This doesn't really matter to me except for educational purposes...I'd like to learn how these things work.
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post #4412 of 5117 Old 06-06-2019, 10:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikee01 View Post
I have a couple of questions for TV experts and/or people who own both the Q90R and the Q9FN.

RTINGs says that the Q9FN can deliver deeper blacks, and that it has a contrast ratio of 19000 : 1 with local dimming, vs 11000 : 1 for the Q90R.

My questions...

Both the Q90R and the Q9FN turn off the backlight for deep blacks (most the time). So the screen is effectively off, or least that's what it looks like to me in a pitch black room(I can't detect the difference between the screen and the black frame). So if they effectively turn the screen off, how can one deliver deeper blacks than the other? Screen off is screen off. Are they talking about overall black levels? And if so, how does that work? Did they do this test and make this conclusion with local dimming disabled?

As to the local dimming contrast ratio, I think I know the answer to this question...if the backlight is off in black areas, how can the Q9FN have such a higher contrast ratio? Is it that its whites are brighter? And to possibly answer my own question, is that because the Q90R has a more aggressive local dimming algorithm that darkens whites in order to prevent blooming? In their local dimming video, you can see more of a halo around white objects with the Q9FN than with the Q90R. If I got it right, then these numbers are deceiving and should be explained/qualified. Because if the white part of their test pattern were larger, then they could get a higher contrast ratio with the Q90R since the local dimming wouldn't attack a large white object as much as as it would a small white cross-hair.

This doesn't really matter to me except for educational purposes...I'd like to learn how these things work.
The contrast ratio helps with "local" contrast. The leds in the backlight array cover a fairly large amount of pixels on the screen, so if you have white and black pixels next to each other in front of that one led responsible for that area, then the native contrast is what decides how bright the white pixels can get while maintaining the black pixels black. This is also a big factor for controlling blooming around bright pixels on top of dark backgrounds. OLEDS are perfect in this regard, zero blooming as each pixel can turn on or off individually instead of sharing a led.

Sony ZF9 75" (Owned: Sony KDL-W55905A, Samsung Q9FN 65" & Q900 75")
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post #4413 of 5117 Old 06-07-2019, 05:05 AM
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Only 2 settings you need. Motion off not custom 0 0 that is wrong or Blur 0 judder 1 if u r getting a judder try both of these. Had mine calibrated and its amazing how much of a difference these 2 settings make. Normaly for Netflix and prime and other movie apps its custom judder 0 blur 1 thats the correct setting for 24fps content however when i watch STB Sky Q even movies its motion off. Amazing how much a difference that small tweak makes. Try it buddy n let me know if it works for you
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post #4414 of 5117 Old 06-07-2019, 05:11 AM
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Only 2 settings you need. Motion off not custom 0 0 that is wrong or Blur 0 judder 1 if u r getting a judder try both of these. Had mine calibrated and its amazing how much of a difference these 2 settings make. Normaly for Netflix and prime and other movie apps its custom judder 0 blur 1 thats the correct setting for 24fps content however when i watch STB Sky Q even movies its motion off. Amazing how much a difference that small tweak makes. Try it buddy n let me know if it works for you
True... You HAVE to tinker with the "expert" settings. When I first set up the TV, I started noticing annoying things happening. One-by-one I've gotten rid of them... Instead of naming it "Expert" maybe "Advanced?"

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Red Stuck Pixel --- seeking opinions

Just got an 82Q90R, but unfortunately, there is one red stuck pixel on the lower part of the screen. Has anyone else experienced this? How frequent does this happen? I have 2 weeks to return the set, but is it worth the risk when everything else seems OK. It's just very disappointing given the cost of these large televisions. Would appreciate any opinions since I'm not sure what to do?!?
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post #4416 of 5117 Old 06-07-2019, 06:45 AM
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I am looking at the 82". Remember if in doubt always go bigger. Biggest TV purchase regret is " I wish I would have decided on the larger screen size".

But wait is that 82" really 150 lbs with the stand?
Wow, that is heavy now-a-days.

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Just discovered my stand is only rated for 125lb.
Post a picture of the stand, depending on the way it looks/designed I bet it can handle more.

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We're getting a brand new console and just can't imagine this set on it. Which leads me to the next question. How high are you guys (forum members) hanging the TV? The top of ours will be hung around 77-78ish" off the floor...
I normally hang sets about 40" off the ground to the bottom, keeping it out of harms way.
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post #4417 of 5117 Old 06-07-2019, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmeteyer View Post
Just got an 82Q90R, but unfortunately, there is one red stuck pixel on the lower part of the screen. Has anyone else experienced this? How frequent does this happen? I have 2 weeks to return the set, but is it worth the risk when everything else seems OK. It's just very disappointing given the cost of these large televisions. Would appreciate any opinions since I'm not sure what to do?!?
How pronounced is it from your sitting area? I think it would drive me nuts...

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post #4418 of 5117 Old 06-07-2019, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by gmeteyer View Post
Just got an 82Q90R, but unfortunately, there is one red stuck pixel on the lower part of the screen. Has anyone else experienced this? How frequent does this happen? I have 2 weeks to return the set, but is it worth the risk when everything else seems OK. It's just very disappointing given the cost of these large televisions. Would appreciate any opinions since I'm not sure what to do?!?
I would definitely return it if it was my set.

Can I see a pic of this dead pixel?
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post #4419 of 5117 Old 06-07-2019, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmeteyer View Post
Just got an 82Q90R, but unfortunately, there is one red stuck pixel on the lower part of the screen. Has anyone else experienced this? How frequent does this happen? I have 2 weeks to return the set, but is it worth the risk when everything else seems OK. It's just very disappointing given the cost of these large televisions. Would appreciate any opinions since I'm not sure what to do?!?
You always replace a stuck glowing pixel, it will drive you nuts after a while. The return policies for glowing pixels are usually very good. Dead pixels that are black are another story, then they will be much harder to return, you may need a certain number of them in the middle region of the TV.
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post #4420 of 5117 Old 06-07-2019, 09:24 AM
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I never go looking for problems, because you will always find flaws on these panels. My 82” might have a dozen stuck pixels for all I know.

Ignorance is bliss.
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post #4421 of 5117 Old 06-07-2019, 09:42 AM
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I would definitely return it if it was my set.

Can I see a pic of this dead pixel?
Here is a picture of the stuck pixel. It isn't visible from the normal viewing distance, but clearly it's a defect. I'm wondering if this is considered to be a normal occurrence and how many other sets exhibit this problem.
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post #4422 of 5117 Old 06-07-2019, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by gmeteyer View Post
Here is a picture of the stuck pixel. It isn't visible from the normal viewing distance, but clearly it's a defect. I'm wondering if this is considered to be a normal occurrence and how many other sets exhibit this problem.

If this is the only thing wrong and you can't see it from normal viewing distance and it doesn't bother you, I would keep it. Your next set may have DSE or something else wrong. If there is anything else in addition to the pixel, it would go back for me.


You pretty much have hassle free returns for two weeks, but I think their bright pixel policy is replacement for any number within the first seven days or a larger cluster after that.
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post #4423 of 5117 Old 06-07-2019, 10:02 AM
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Here is a picture of the stuck pixel. It isn't visible from the normal viewing distance, but clearly it's a defect. I'm wondering if this is considered to be a normal occurrence and how many other sets exhibit this problem.
In 2011, I went to buy a TV to use as a computer monitor. Because I have zero tolerance for dead/stuck pixels, and because I sit very close to my monitor, I ended buying and returning 8 or 9 televisions before I found one with no pixel defects. Recently, I did the same thing, except I returned two TVs and ended up with a 3rd that I am afraid to look closely at for fear I may spot one. But so far, so good. And I have looked close, I just haven't combed the screen. The way I used to look was to put up a series of solid color images and slowly go over every inch of the screen. I've established that there are no pixel defects that I will see unless I carefully look, and I won't look, and this is good enough for me. Until,of course, I happen to spot one.

With my new Q90R, I will never allow myself to get close enough to the TV to see one. Even at close viewing distances (TV distances) I will never see one, so I'm doing this on purpose. Returning 8 or 9 75" TVs would be a nightmare.

If you can't see it, try to ignore it. If you can't ignore it, return/exchange it. But my advice is...never ever get close enough to the TV when it's on to see one, ever again.

btw...has anything changed? Are dead or stuck pixels rarer now than they used to be?
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post #4424 of 5117 Old 06-07-2019, 10:31 AM
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After going through the hassle of returning my 150 lbs Q90 for concealed damage I would definitely live with a single stuck pixel if that was the only issue with the panel. It's going to be almost a month from the date ordered to the day I receive my 2nd TV. Hopefully AGS doesn't damage this one.
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post #4425 of 5117 Old 06-07-2019, 10:32 AM
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Wow, that is heavy now-a-days.

Post a picture of the stand, depending on the way it looks/designed I bet it can handle more.
Thank you but this set is too heavy for me even if my stand would somehow hold it. I've decided to go another route.

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post #4426 of 5117 Old 06-07-2019, 10:36 AM
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I use dynamic black equalizer at 1 for HDR and SDR but for SDR I turn brightness to -1. Blacks are slightly elevated on SDR still but there is more shadow detail. I'll take the slightly elevated blacks for an uptick in shadow detail. On HDR the blacks are still true black with dynamic black equalizer at 1 but on SDR it elevates them so brightness at -1 cuts that difference in half so it's like having dynamic black equalizer at .5.
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post #4427 of 5117 Old 06-07-2019, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by gmeteyer View Post
Here is a picture of the stuck pixel. It isn't visible from the normal viewing distance, but clearly it's a defect. I'm wondering if this is considered to be a normal occurrence and how many other sets exhibit this problem.
You are SO close to the screen! It makes that grey streak look so prominent and a more substantial issue than the one tiny pixel!

Agree with others: if you don't see it during normal viewing, sit back and enjoy your amazing TV!
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post #4428 of 5117 Old 06-07-2019, 01:02 PM
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Here is a picture of the stuck pixel. It isn't visible from the normal viewing distance, but clearly it's a defect. I'm wondering if this is considered to be a normal occurrence and how many other sets exhibit this problem.
To me it looks like it's not a glowing pixel but rather that the green sub pixel is permanently stuck/dead in a closed position, as in when the pixel wants to turn white and opening up it's 3 sub pixels to let light out, only the red and blue sub pixel opens up properly as red + blue = magenta, while the green is still closed. If it's fairly close to the screens edge then you won't often notice it in normal content, try using the TV as you would normally and see if you catch it and find it annoying. But if it lights up on top of dark/black backgrounds next to a bright section of the screen, then it's a glowing pixel and it will be visible and annoying in actual use.

And to answer your question, from my experience it's not uncommon on consumer LCD TVs to have some dead sub pixels.

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post #4429 of 5117 Old 06-08-2019, 12:59 AM
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I just started the process of getting my Q90 properly sorted and I noticed that I also have a stuck subpixel. It's damn near dead center of the screen but there's only one and it's not visible from anywhere near a normal seating distance so I'm not even giving it another thought. I also have a fairly light amount of DSE but it's not alarming nor noticeable in actual content so I'm going to let that go as well. In fairness it's not the absolute cleanest panel I've ever seen (or owned) but by and large it's more than acceptable.



What is weirding me out is that while running the AVS zone counter I keep coming up with a figure greater than 480 and I know that's not right. To make matters worse I've apparently misplaced my Samsung candybar remote so I can't get into the service menu ATM and this is gnawing away in the back of my brain lol.

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post #4430 of 5117 Old 06-08-2019, 05:42 AM
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I just started the process of getting my Q90 properly sorted and I noticed that I also have a stuck subpixel. It's damn near dead center of the screen but there's only one and it's not visible from anywhere near a normal seating distance so I'm not even giving it another thought. I also have a fairly light amount of DSE but it's not alarming nor noticeable in actual content so I'm going to let that go as well. In fairness it's not the absolute cleanest panel I've ever seen (or owned) but by and large it's more than acceptable.



What is weirding me out is that while running the AVS zone counter I keep coming up with a figure greater than 480 and I know that's not right. To make matters worse I've apparently misplaced my Samsung candybar remote so I can't get into the service menu ATM and this is gnawing away in the back of my brain lol.
I just did a zone count on my 75" and got 30x16. It's easiest if you count when the dot is on the bottom, and stand next to the screen looking down.
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post #4431 of 5117 Old 06-08-2019, 07:50 AM
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I just did a zone count on my 75" and got 30x16. It's easiest if you count when the dot is on the bottom, and stand next to the screen looking down.

Thanks, but I know how to do it and I know what to look for. Doing the vertical columns is pretty easy, the horizontal rows are giving me a harder time for some reason. And I know that Samsung uses a 30 x 16 array. The challenge in squaring the circle is that my array is definitely not 30 x 16. My panel is most definitely 40 columns vertically, and I'm not 100% on the horizontal, but it appears to be 13.



This bothered me all night. If I don't find my remote this morning I'm going to set up a macro on one of my Harmony remotes.
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post #4432 of 5117 Old 06-08-2019, 08:44 AM
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Nevermind I called one of my contacts at Samsung and they cleared it up for me. Lol I wasn't completely right, but I wasn't completely wrong either. On the 82" it's actually 40 x 12. Still 480 zones, just a somewhat different arrangement for the array.

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post #4433 of 5117 Old 06-08-2019, 09:29 AM
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I feel your pain...sounds extremely frustrating. HDMI compatibility issues, which this sounds like to me, are far too common if you ask me. I recently had to retire an old LCD tv because the first generation HDMI connection wasn’t compatible with my new cable tv system. TV still worked perfect as well, so it was a shame to have to replace it.

Finally found the culprit. Why would this turn off devices after 20 minutes?


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Nevermind I called one of my contacts at Samsung and they cleared it up for me. Lol I wasn't completely right, but I wasn't completely wrong either. On the 82" it's actually 40 x 12. Still 480 zones, just a somewhat different arrangement for the array.


that is definitely an odd array. how is the bloom control and widescreen bars?
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Nevermind I called one of my contacts at Samsung and they cleared it up for me. Lol I wasn't completely right, but I wasn't completely wrong either. On the 82" it's actually 40 x 12. Still 480 zones, just a somewhat different arrangement for the array.
that is definitely an odd array. how is the bloom control and widescreen bars?
I haven't run a cal yet and I haven't watched much widescreen content so far but my initial impression the other night was that it's on par with the Q9 for top and bottom bars....i.e. i didn't see anything overly alarming. I'll pop in some movies and look at it more critically when I get home this evening.

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post #4436 of 5117 Old 06-08-2019, 11:05 AM
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Finally found the culprit. Why would this turn off devices after 20 minutes?



Good news! It’s usually something simple. Not surprised to hear that it’s HDMI related either.

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post #4437 of 5117 Old 06-08-2019, 03:47 PM
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I just started the process of getting my Q90 properly sorted and I noticed that I also have a stuck subpixel. It's damn near dead center of the screen but there's only one and it's not visible from anywhere near a normal seating distance so I'm not even giving it another thought. I also have a fairly light amount of DSE but it's not alarming nor noticeable in actual content so I'm going to let that go as well. In fairness it's not the absolute cleanest panel I've ever seen (or owned) but by and large it's more than acceptable.



What is weirding me out is that while running the AVS zone counter I keep coming up with a figure greater than 480 and I know that's not right. To make matters worse I've apparently misplaced my Samsung candybar remote so I can't get into the service menu ATM and this is gnawing away in the back of my brain lol.
Looks like these panels are susceptible to stuck pixels, at least if you happen to notice them. Other than the single one that I have as well, my panel looks pretty good so I guess I'm going to let it go and keep mine as well.


I also want to thank everyone who took the time to give their opinions on my stuck pixel situation ….. I appreciate all the comments!
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post #4438 of 5117 Old 06-08-2019, 04:01 PM
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Good news! It’s usually something simple. Not surprised to hear that it’s HDMI related either.

By the way, if you enable Anynet+, make sure you go into "Input Signal Plus" and enable HDMI 3 (ARC input) for the One Connect Box. This expands the signal range for that HDMI input. I just happened to come across this when I tried to play the Skyscraper Blu-ray Disc which has HDR ….. and which wouldn't kick-in unless that expanded signal range was enabled.
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post #4439 of 5117 Old 06-08-2019, 10:13 PM
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that is definitely an odd array. how is the bloom control and widescreen bars?

I got home way later than I would have liked, but I just loaded up some widescreen movies and yeah...there's some blooming going on, including into the letterbox bars. It's not completely obnoxious, but it's definitely there.

82Q90R / 75Q9FN / Denon X6400H / Polk Audio LSI 7.1.4 / Nvidia Shield / Panasonic DP-UB820 4K BluRay / Xbox One X / PS4 Pro / Nintendo Switch / Custom Gaming PC / Custom VR PC / HTC Vive Pro HMD (Wireless)
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post #4440 of 5117 Old 06-08-2019, 10:37 PM
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I got home way later than I would have liked, but I just loaded up some widescreen movies and yeah...there's some blooming going on, including into the letterbox bars. It's not completely obnoxious, but it's definitely there.


First time I heard of blooming in the black bars on this set. I don’t have any blooming on my black bars and Vincent in his review stated that there is no noticeable blooming on the black bars on his review set either.

65” Sony A9G (on order) | 65” Samsung Q90r | 55” LG C8 | 65” Sony Z9D (R.I.P.) | 55” Sony x850b. Denon s940e | Bose soundbar 700 | Apple TV 4K | Panasonic UB820 | PS4 | Xbox One X
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