2019 Samsung Q90R Owners Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 149 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4441 of 5100 Old 06-08-2019, 10:47 PM
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First time I heard of blooming in the black bars on this set. I don’t have any blooming on my black bars and Vincent in his review stated that there is no noticeable blooming on the black bars on his review set either.

Considering that you both have the 65" I wouldn't expect you to have issues. I assure you on the 82" blooming is visible in the letterbox bars if you go looking for it.

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post #4442 of 5100 Old 06-08-2019, 10:56 PM
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Considering that you both have the 65" I wouldn't expect you to have issues. I assure you on the 82" blooming is visible in the letterbox bars if you go looking for it.

I only notice blooming in the narrow Netflix bars but never in the regular cinema bars. But yeah the 82 is so massive that small anomalies may be much more pronounced.

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post #4443 of 5100 Old 06-08-2019, 11:07 PM
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I only notice blooming in the narrow Netflix bars but never in the regular cinema bars. But yeah the 82 is so massive that small anomalies may be much more pronounced.

I assume it's a combination of the size of the tv and the fact that on 2.40 content the edge of the letterbox bars runs almost directly through the middle of a zone. I'm not sure if this is the case on the 65" and 75" and I'm too tired to do the math lol.

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post #4444 of 5100 Old 06-09-2019, 08:29 AM
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I got home way later than I would have liked, but I just loaded up some widescreen movies and yeah...there's some blooming going on, including into the letterbox bars. It's not completely obnoxious, but it's definitely there.
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First time I heard of blooming in the black bars on this set. I don’t have any blooming on my black bars and Vincent in his review stated that there is no noticeable blooming on the black bars on his review set either.
Yes, the 82” does have some ‘minor’ blooming in the standard 2.35 letterbox bars at times, but not nearly at the same level of the 900F and Z9F that I had previously. I suspect this has something to do with the screen size and array that Samsung chose for the 82” version. It goes without saying that a 65” with 480 zones will have less blooming than an 82” with 480 zones. Couple this with the fact that Samsung went with a 40/12 arrangement, instead of the 30/16 zones on the smaller sets and it all starts to make more sense. I wish they would have just upped the zone count to maintain the same level of performance across the board.

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post #4445 of 5100 Old 06-09-2019, 08:35 AM
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Thank you but this set is too heavy for me even if my stand would somehow hold it. I've decided to go another route.
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Yes, the 82” does have some ‘minor’ blooming in the standard 2.35 letterbox bars at times, but not nearly at the same level of the 900F and Z9F that I had previously. I suspect this has something to do with the screen size and array that Samsung chose for the 82” version. It goes without saying that a 65” with 480 zones will have less blooming than an 82” with 480 zones. Couple this with the fact that Samsung went with a 40/12 arrangement, instead of the 30/16 zones on the smaller sets and it all starts to make more sense. I wish they would have just upped the zone count to maintain the same level of performance across the board.
Ya that does stink that they did not up those zones big time going to a 60% bigger screen.
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post #4446 of 5100 Old 06-09-2019, 08:51 AM
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It goes without saying that a 65” with 480 zones will have less blooming than an 82” with 480 zones.
I don't really get that. If the layout of the zones is the same (which apparently in this case is not true), then the number of pixels per zone is identical, and the geometry of the pixels per zone is identical, regardless of size. So why should the blooming inherently be different?
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post #4447 of 5100 Old 06-09-2019, 08:52 AM
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Ya that does stink that they did not up those zones big time going to a 60% bigger screen.
I believe it’s a simple case of doing just enough to beat out your competition. The 85” 950G is the main competition for this 82” Q90 and that set has what, maybe 80-100 zones correct?

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post #4448 of 5100 Old 06-09-2019, 09:00 AM
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I don't really get that. If the layout of the zones is the same (which apparently in this case is not true), then the number of pixels per zone is identical, and the geometry of the pixels per zone is identical, regardless of size. So why should the blooming inherently be different?
You are looking at it all wrong. The size of the pixels has nothing to do with blooming. The bottom line is that you are asking the same amount of led lights to control blooming on a MUCH larger screen. The screen area per individual led light is much larger on an 82” versus a 65”. Make sense?
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post #4449 of 5100 Old 06-09-2019, 09:05 AM
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The bottom line is that you are asking the same amount of led lights to control blooming on a MUCH larger screen.
Is it a given that the number of LEDs per zone is constant?
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post #4450 of 5100 Old 06-09-2019, 09:15 AM
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Is it a given that the number of LEDs per zone is constant?
Don’t know, but I would assume they are somewhat evenly spread out across the screen. Anyone want to volunteer to tear apart their tv’s so we can get a look at the layout? Lol

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post #4451 of 5100 Old 06-09-2019, 09:48 AM
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Don’t know, but I would assume they are somewhat evenly spread out across the screen.
Assuming the LEDs themselves are the same across all sizes, then I would guess the LED density remains roughly constant across all sizes, in order to maintain brightness uniformity across the screen. Meaning more LEDs as the size goes up. So, for a given number of zones and zone geometry, it's not obvious to me that blooming must inherently be different across different sizes; it seems more subtle, involving exactly where the LEDs end up relative to zone boundaries. The difference in zone geometry between the 67/75 and 82 could be the more significant difference.
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post #4452 of 5100 Old 06-09-2019, 10:09 AM
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Assuming the LEDs themselves are the same across all sizes, then I would guess the LED density remains roughly constant across all sizes, in order to maintain brightness uniformity across the screen. Meaning more LEDs as the size goes up. So, for a given number of zones and zone geometry, it's not obvious to me that blooming must inherently be different across different sizes; it seems more subtle, involving exactly where the LEDs end up relative to zone boundaries. The difference in zone geometry between the 67/75 and 82 could be the more significant difference.
Sorry, I didn’t say, but I’m assuming Samsung is using one individual led per zone. This is traditionally how FALD grids work from my understanding.

Either way, it’s the size of the zone that matters when it comes to dimming and blooming control.

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post #4453 of 5100 Old 06-09-2019, 11:48 AM
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Sorry, I didn’t say, but I’m assuming Samsung is using one individual led per zone. This is traditionally how FALD grids work from my understanding.
I'd be interested to see any evidence for that. For example, to quote from rtings.com: "With local dimming, different groupings of LEDs – called zones – are dimmed or brightened at the same time."

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Either way, it’s the size of the zone that matters when it comes to dimming and blooming control.
I still don't see it. Between a 65" and a 75", if they have identical resolution and zone configuration, then the set of pixels in any given zone is identical between the two panels. To take it to an extreme, a display that had a separate zone for each pixel (a la MicroLED) would presumably have no blooming, even if each individual zone/pixel was 12" in size.
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post #4454 of 5100 Old 06-09-2019, 11:58 AM
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I'd be interested to see any evidence for that. For example, to quote from rtings.com: "With local dimming, different groupings of LEDs – called zones – are dimmed or brightened at the same time."



I still don't see it. Between a 65" and a 75", if they have identical resolution and zone configuration, then the set of pixels in any given zone is identical between the two panels. To take it to an extreme, a display that had a separate zone for each pixel (a la MicroLED) would presumably have no blooming, even if each individual zone/pixel was 12" in size.
I don’t know what else to tell you. It’s fairly simple and straight forward to me.

Maybe someone else can chime in and explain it in a way that makes sense to you. Also, if you google FALD, there are some decent articles that probably explain it better than I do. I was reading one published by Cnet earlier.

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post #4455 of 5100 Old 06-09-2019, 12:10 PM
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I don’t know what else to tell you. It’s fairly simple and straight forward to me.

Maybe someone else can chime in and explain it in a way that makes sense to you.
Ditto.
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post #4456 of 5100 Old 06-09-2019, 01:39 PM
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I don't really get that. If the layout of the zones is the same (which apparently in this case is not true), then the number of pixels per zone is identical, and the geometry of the pixels per zone is identical, regardless of size. So why should the blooming inherently be different?
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You are looking at it all wrong. The size of the pixels has nothing to do with blooming. The bottom line is that you are asking the same amount of led lights to control blooming on a MUCH larger screen. The screen area per individual led light is much larger on an 82” versus a 65”. Make sense?
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Don’t know, but I would assume they are somewhat evenly spread out across the screen. Anyone want to volunteer to tear apart their tv’s so we can get a look at the layout? Lol
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Assuming the LEDs themselves are the same across all sizes, then I would guess the LED density remains roughly constant across all sizes, in order to maintain brightness uniformity across the screen. Meaning more LEDs as the size goes up. So, for a given number of zones and zone geometry, it's not obvious to me that blooming must inherently be different across different sizes; it seems more subtle, involving exactly where the LEDs end up relative to zone boundaries. The difference in zone geometry between the 67/75 and 82 could be the more significant difference.
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Sorry, I didn’t say, but I’m assuming Samsung is using one individual led per zone. This is traditionally how FALD grids work from my understanding.

Either way, it’s the size of the zone that matters when it comes to dimming and blooming control.
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I'd be interested to see any evidence for that. For example, to quote from rtings.com: "With local dimming, different groupings of LEDs – called zones – are dimmed or brightened at the same time."



I still don't see it. Between a 65" and a 75", if they have identical resolution and zone configuration, then the set of pixels in any given zone is identical between the two panels. To take it to an extreme, a display that had a separate zone for each pixel (a la MicroLED) would presumably have no blooming, even if each individual zone/pixel was 12" in size.
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I don’t know what else to tell you. It’s fairly simple and straight forward to me.

Maybe someone else can chime in and explain it in a way that makes sense to you. Also, if you google FALD, there are some decent articles that probably explain it better than I do. I was reading one published by Cnet earlier.
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Ditto.


Samsung traditionally has used 3-5 LEDS per zone. i believe the LED per zone is actually listed in the service menu along with the zone count. for example, i watched a video of a tear down of the 65JS9500 and i was able to count the verticlexhorizontal LEDS and there were 600 LEDS total, which was then split into 150 dimming zones. so it had 4 LEDS per zone.

TCL has a new MINI-LED tv releasing this fall in the USA. the 65" has 768 dimming zones which each contain 20 mini LEDs. for a grand total of a whopping 15,000 LEDS lol which is insane.


As for the bloom issue. I think some people are either over thinking it or trying to play "smartest guy in the room". the larger tv with same amount of zones will bloom more. I had last years 65Q9FN and 75Q9FN side by side and the 65 definitely had less bloom. i played the same content coming out of my AVR so they were 100% synced. I went into the comparison expecting them to be the same but they weren't. they would both bloom in the exact same spots, but the 75 would bloom farther out. it wasn't a huge difference but it was definitely noticeable and i was able to take pictures that captured what i was seeing.



Heres a freebie not related. I always see people say that if you want the same immersion as a 75"+ larger tv, just sit closer to your smaller tv and its the same LOL i recently got a 55" oled and i can tell you straight up that is BS lol my 75" from 12"ft away is way more immersive and powerfull than getting even 5ft from the 55". it just not the same no matter how close i get to the 55", i can still see more detail and texture on the 75" from 10-12ft away.
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post #4457 of 5100 Old 06-09-2019, 01:57 PM
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the larger tv with same amount of zones will bloom more. I had last years 65Q9FN and 75Q9FN side by side and the 65 definitely had less bloom.
A sample size of one, with no other explanation, is of course completely convincing. I won't comment further.
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post #4458 of 5100 Old 06-09-2019, 03:17 PM
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A sample size of one, with no other explanation, is of course completely convincing. I won't comment further.
"smartest guy in the room".


you clearly are in the camp that doesn't like using facts.

by your theory, tv reviewers would need to sample hundreds of units before their review actually means anything. yes there are variations in units with things like color gamut and contrast, but dimming should be identical on units of the same size, assuming there are no defects. I'm sure any professional calibrator would agree. I'll ask
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post #4459 of 5100 Old 06-09-2019, 04:40 PM
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Samsung traditionally has used 3-5 LEDS per zone. i believe the LED per zone is actually listed in the service menu along with the zone count. for example, i watched a video of a tear down of the 65JS9500 and i was able to count the verticlexhorizontal LEDS and there were 600 LEDS total, which was then split into 150 dimming zones. so it had 4 LEDS per zone.

TCL has a new MINI-LED tv releasing this fall in the USA. the 65" has 768 dimming zones which each contain 20 mini LEDs. for a grand total of a whopping 15,000 LEDS lol which is insane.


As for the bloom issue. I think some people are either over thinking it or trying to play "smartest guy in the room". the larger tv with same amount of zones will bloom more. I had last years 65Q9FN and 75Q9FN side by side and the 65 definitely had less bloom. i played the same content coming out of my AVR so they were 100% synced. I went into the comparison expecting them to be the same but they weren't. they would both bloom in the exact same spots, but the 75 would bloom farther out. it wasn't a huge difference but it was definitely noticeable and i was able to take pictures that captured what i was seeing.



Heres a freebie not related. I always see people say that if you want the same immersion as a 75"+ larger tv, just sit closer to your smaller tv and its the same LOL i recently got a 55" oled and i can tell you straight up that is BS lol my 75" from 12"ft away is way more immersive and powerfull than getting even 5ft from the 55". it just not the same no matter how close i get to the 55", i can still see more detail and texture on the 75" from 10-12ft away.
Great info. Much appreciated.

I was not aware that Samsung used that many led’s per zone. The old saying, “you learn something new everyday”, applies here.
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post #4460 of 5100 Old 06-09-2019, 09:07 PM
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Great info. Much appreciated.

I was not aware that Samsung used that many led’s per zone. The old saying, “you learn something new everyday”, applies here.

The Q90 and Q9FN are actually estimated to be around 2000 LEDs. 480x4. but according to the service menu the 55Q9fn in Europe may only have 3 LEDs per zone so it's less. if you can go into the service menu it should have a number next to the dimming zone configuration. it'll say something like 40x12(4)
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post #4461 of 5100 Old 06-10-2019, 04:16 AM
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Change the conversation from this damb blooming issue, he's had an answer move on people.
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post #4462 of 5100 Old 06-10-2019, 04:57 AM
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Samsung traditionally has used 3-5 LEDS per zone. i believe the LED per zone is actually listed in the service menu along with the zone count. for example, i watched a video of a tear down of the 65JS9500 and i was able to count the verticlexhorizontal LEDS and there were 600 LEDS total, which was then split into 150 dimming zones. so it had 4 LEDS per zone.

TCL has a new MINI-LED tv releasing this fall in the USA. the 65" has 768 dimming zones which each contain 20 mini LEDs. for a grand total of a whopping 15,000 LEDS lol which is insane.


As for the bloom issue. I think some people are either over thinking it or trying to play "smartest guy in the room". the larger tv with same amount of zones will bloom more. I had last years 65Q9FN and 75Q9FN side by side and the 65 definitely had less bloom. i played the same content coming out of my AVR so they were 100% synced. I went into the comparison expecting them to be the same but they weren't. they would both bloom in the exact same spots, but the 75 would bloom farther out. it wasn't a huge difference but it was definitely noticeable and i was able to take pictures that captured what i was seeing.



Heres a freebie not related. I always see people say that if you want the same immersion as a 75"+ larger tv, just sit closer to your smaller tv and its the same LOL i recently got a 55" oled and i can tell you straight up that is BS lol my 75" from 12"ft away is way more immersive and powerfull than getting even 5ft from the 55". it just not the same no matter how close i get to the 55", i can still see more detail and texture on the 75" from 10-12ft away.
Same # of zones, same % of bloom. It will look worse because the set is larger and the bloom area larger by the same amount. Sometimes brightness varies a bit as well which could also affect this. If you sre just looking at the quantity of bloom, it greater but if you look at as % of the screen, it's the same. Just like you'll see more grain or artifacts with certain material on a larger set.
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post #4463 of 5100 Old 06-10-2019, 07:37 AM
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Does anyone have a recommendation on settings for dimming? When credits come on the TV dims so low it's almost unreadable. My son and I are watching Ultimate Spider-Man and when the intro comes on the TV dims very noticeably


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post #4464 of 5100 Old 06-10-2019, 05:34 PM
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Same # of zones, same % of bloom. It will look worse because the set is larger and the bloom area larger by the same amount. Sometimes brightness varies a bit as well which could also affect this. If you sre just looking at the quantity of bloom, it greater but if you look at as % of the screen, it's the same. Just like you'll see more grain or artifacts with certain material on a larger set.
in theory yes, but it's only partially correct. I think this can be debunked by widescreen bar performance. if all was equal, then the widescreen bar performance would be identical and I can tell you 1st hand when I had the 65 and 75 Q9 side by side (and they have the same grid array setup), the 65 had better bar performance, they stayed blacker during the most challenging scenes but the 75 had a little bit more bleed in certain areas..

I did ask Vincent Teoh about this and he agreed that with all things being equal, the smaller TV will perform better. but I still chose the 75" over the 65"

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post #4465 of 5100 Old 06-10-2019, 05:35 PM
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Change the conversation from this damb blooming issue, he's had an answer move on people.
this unfortunately is all because Samsung is refusing to increase zone count on the larger sizes, unlike 2015 and 2016 when they DID have higher zone counts on the larger tvs. this important for prospective buyers to at least be aware, but I don't think it's a deal breaker.

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post #4466 of 5100 Old 06-10-2019, 06:12 PM
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Change the conversation from this damb blooming issue, he's had an answer move on people.
If we can’t talk about these issues in the Q90 owners thread, then where?

Instead of wasting our time with whining and complaining, maybe contribute something useful to the thread.
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post #4467 of 5100 Old 06-10-2019, 09:00 PM
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Does anyone know how to get this TV to stop automatically enabling game mode whenever I launch a game on my console? I hate what game mode does to black levels and want to play most games with it off.
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post #4468 of 5100 Old 06-11-2019, 03:50 AM
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in theory yes, but it's only partially correct. I think this can be debunked by widescreen bar performance. if all was equal, then the widescreen bar performance would be identical and I can tell you 1st hand when I had the 65 and 75 Q9 side by side (and they have the same grid array setup), the 65 had better bar performance, they stayed blacker during the most challenging scenes but the 75 had a little bit more bleed in certain areas..

I did ask Vincent Teoh about this and he agreed that with all things being equal, the smaller TV will perform better. but I still chose the 75" over the 65"

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I thought I had deleted that right after posting when I looked back and realized the discussion didn't assume all things being equal.
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post #4469 of 5100 Old 06-11-2019, 06:44 AM
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I currently have a 75" Q90R. But I regretted not getting the 82". So last week I decided to call up Best Buy and exchange it for the 82" (it was within 14 days). It is being delivered on Thursday. But now some of these observations about the 82" are scaring me a bit. I've been very happy with my 75" so far. The uniformity is excellent and the blooming is fine for me.

Has anyone here had the 75" and swapped it for the 82"? Do you have any comparison observations between the two of them? Were you happy with the swap?
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post #4470 of 5100 Old 06-11-2019, 07:52 AM
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I currently have a 75" Q90R. But I regretted not getting the 82". So last week I decided to call up Best Buy and exchange it for the 82" (it was within 14 days). It is being delivered on Thursday. But now some of these observations about the 82" are scaring me a bit. I've been very happy with my 75" so far. The uniformity is excellent and the blooming is fine for me.



Has anyone here had the 75" and swapped it for the 82"? Do you have any comparison observations between the two of them? Were you happy with the swap?
Sleep easy, the 82” is a great set. Blooming control is still very good and mine has great uniformity. I can’t imagine you being happy with the 75” and then not happy with the 82”, in fact I’d be shocked if that were the case.

It goes without saying, that the bigger the screen gets, the more obvious any flaws will become. The minor trade off is worth it for the extra immersion factor your getting from the larger screen imo.
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