2019 Samsung Q90R Owners Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 153 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4561 of 6398 Old 06-14-2019, 09:43 AM
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Regarding the firmware 1303.7: What about eARC support? Did the firmware finally add it?
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post #4562 of 6398 Old 06-14-2019, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by rwap View Post
Regarding the firmware 1303.7: What about eARC support? Did the firmware finally add it?
I wouldn't hold my breath.
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post #4563 of 6398 Old 06-14-2019, 11:14 AM
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There’s no AI upscaling in movie mode either.
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Originally Posted by thoth View Post
Link to source?
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Originally Posted by Hufvudet View Post
Scroll to “Picture quality”:

https://www.flatpanelshd.com/review....&id=1557215154

Also read the linked Q900R review.

Avforums hints at this in their podcast podcast reviewing the Q90R as well.

I’ve been doing my own evaluation (just by eye) and it’s obvious that the upscaling is different in standard and movie mode. I prefer the more natural movie mode upscaling. AI upscaling is a bit too aggressive in my opinion.
I followed your link to flatpanelshd's review and I'm not seeing where it says "There's no AI upscaling in movie mode" or similar. Help me out here by cut and pasting the article section that supports that statement.

Thanks
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post #4564 of 6398 Old 06-14-2019, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikejl View Post
I followed your link to flatpanelshd's review and I'm not seeing where it says "There's no AI upscaling in movie mode" or similar.
You have to look at the Picture Quality section of their Q900R review, but there isn't an explicit statement. They have a pair of images showing differences between Movie and Standard modes. Whether that's due to the AI aspects being disabled in Movie mode, or enabled but configured to be less aggressive, is unclear to me from those images alone (with no reference to an original), but their statement "the Movie picture mode is staying true to the video creator’s intent, without added sharpness and other enhancements", seems to imply they believe aspects are disabled.
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post #4565 of 6398 Old 06-14-2019, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikejl View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hufvudet View Post
There’s no AI upscaling in movie mode either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thoth View Post
Link to source?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hufvudet View Post
Scroll to “Picture quality”:

https://www.flatpanelshd.com/review....&id=1557215154

Also read the linked Q900R review.

Avforums hints at this in their podcast podcast reviewing the Q90R as well.

I’ve been doing my own evaluation (just by eye) and it’s obvious that the upscaling is different in standard and movie mode. I prefer the more natural movie mode upscaling. AI upscaling is a bit too aggressive in my opinion.
I followed your link to flatpanelshd's review and I'm not seeing where it says "There's no AI upscaling in movie mode" or similar. Help me out here by cut and pasting the article section that supports that statement.

Thanks
Read the two first paragraphs under “picture quality” and then this from the linked (in the article) Q900R review:

“Of course, a TV cannot magically find extra pixels in the picture so it has to process the source material that is available. In Standard picture mode, the TV adds – even with all dynamic picture settings off – a fair amount of sharpness to the picture. For comparison, the Movie picture mode is staying true to the video creator’s intent, without added sharpness and other enhancements, which is illustrated in the photo above. Notice the brick wall in the picture or the text printed on the bricks. What you are seeing is an added shadow edge that is designed to enhance edges to make it appear more detailed. Also notice that it is not actually adding extra detail in the picture and that it in several spots, for example the edge of the shadow of the figurine on the wall, is simply adding the same dark – and somewhat unnatural looking – rim.

Whether or not you like the result will depend on your preferences but to see the effects of Samsung’s system you must use another picture mode than Movie mode, which also involves doing lots of tweaking to get accurate pictures. You will get far just by changing the color temperature but the white (color) balance still needs adjustment, which is very hard without measurement equipment.”

I don’t know this for a fact so somebody please correct me if I’m wrong. But I also see a difference in added sharpness between upscaled content in standard and movie mode.
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post #4566 of 6398 Old 06-14-2019, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by courtneyc View Post
Hey all! I have my TV being delivered Monday (82”) and i was curious if any of the reviews out there have tested vertical viewing angles.

I would prefer to mount the tv flat on the wall but I’m concerned from the seating position that without tilting it’ll wash out. It’s my understanding the new viewing angle improvement only deals with horizontal angles not vertical angles.

I’d be curious if someone has tested the vertical impact.

The tv is going to be used to replace a triple monitor setup for a display to work and I have a desk I use standing and sitting. If the tv is flat mounted i can position it between the two positions so I’m slightly above center when standing and below center when sitting. If the off axis vertical picture quality is crap though maybe I’ll meed a mount that can quickly adjust tilt?

Any advise would be appreciated! Perhaps there’s a mount that makes it easy to adjust the tilt in a few seconds when changing position as well? Other mounts I’ve had in the past adjust swivel easily but the tilt not so much.

Side note, I actually received the tv Wednesday and the display was trashed. The freight co didn’t inform me when he arrived, plopped the tv flat in my loading dock and took off. Talk about a facepalm moment. Literally stuff all over the box about not laying it flat. It won’t even turn on. Anyway the replacement tv is already on the way and Monday the new tv will be sent and my broken one picked up.

Some fun pics of the damage included 🙂
My eye level is even with the bottom edge of the screen on my 82” when I’m sitting and both color and contrast are still spot on. No washout, no raised blacks, no added blooming, etc.

You should be fine.
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post #4567 of 6398 Old 06-14-2019, 01:44 PM
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about to pull the trigger on this unit........
is there a preferred panel on the 75"?

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post #4568 of 6398 Old 06-14-2019, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Hufvudet View Post
Read the two first paragraphs under “picture quality” and then this from the linked (in the article) Q900R review:

“Of course, a TV cannot magically find extra pixels in the picture so it has to process the source material that is available. In Standard picture mode, the TV adds – even with all dynamic picture settings off – a fair amount of sharpness to the picture. For comparison, the Movie picture mode is staying true to the video creator’s intent, without added sharpness and other enhancements, which is illustrated in the photo above. Notice the brick wall in the picture or the text printed on the bricks. What you are seeing is an added shadow edge that is designed to enhance edges to make it appear more detailed. Also notice that it is not actually adding extra detail in the picture and that it in several spots, for example the edge of the shadow of the figurine on the wall, is simply adding the same dark – and somewhat unnatural looking – rim.

Whether or not you like the result will depend on your preferences but to see the effects of Samsung’s system you must use another picture mode than Movie mode, which also involves doing lots of tweaking to get accurate pictures. You will get far just by changing the color temperature but the white (color) balance still needs adjustment, which is very hard without measurement equipment.”

I don’t know this for a fact so somebody please correct me if I’m wrong. But I also see a difference in added sharpness between upscaled content in standard and movie mode.
Hi Hufvudet, have you connected the TV to PC (or Laptop)?
I'm planning to buy this TV and use MPCHC/VLC on PC to play movies and also gaming too.
Does 4K AI Upscaling working on PC?
Thanks Hufvudet
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post #4569 of 6398 Old 06-14-2019, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darin View Post
I haven't found a setting in the Q90 to change the RGB range.
The Q90R, like other Samsungs for some years, has an "HDMI Black Level" setting; on the Q90R it's under External Device Manager. Normal = Full, Low = Limited.
i thought this was backwards. Normal=limited (as in tv standard) and low=full (as in lower black levels)
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post #4570 of 6398 Old 06-14-2019, 03:04 PM
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My eye level is even with the bottom edge of the screen on my 82” when I’m sitting and both color and contrast are still spot on. No washout, no raised blacks, no added blooming, etc.

You should be fine.
Awesome! That's great to hear. Just curious, how far from the screen is your sitting position?
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post #4571 of 6398 Old 06-14-2019, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robertus Kurniawan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hufvudet View Post
Read the two first paragraphs under “picture quality” and then this from the linked (in the article) Q900R review:

“Of course, a TV cannot magically find extra pixels in the picture so it has to process the source material that is available. In Standard picture mode, the TV adds – even with all dynamic picture settings off – a fair amount of sharpness to the picture. For comparison, the Movie picture mode is staying true to the video creator’s intent, without added sharpness and other enhancements, which is illustrated in the photo above. Notice the brick wall in the picture or the text printed on the bricks. What you are seeing is an added shadow edge that is designed to enhance edges to make it appear more detailed. Also notice that it is not actually adding extra detail in the picture and that it in several spots, for example the edge of the shadow of the figurine on the wall, is simply adding the same dark – and somewhat unnatural looking – rim.

Whether or not you like the result will depend on your preferences but to see the effects of Samsung’s system you must use another picture mode than Movie mode, which also involves doing lots of tweaking to get accurate pictures. You will get far just by changing the color temperature but the white (color) balance still needs adjustment, which is very hard without measurement equipment.”

I don’t know this for a fact so somebody please correct me if I’m wrong. But I also see a difference in added sharpness between upscaled content in standard and movie mode.
Hi Hufvudet, have you connected the TV to PC (or Laptop)?
I'm planning to buy this TV and use MPCHC/VLC on PC to play movies and also gaming too.
Does 4K AI Upscaling working on PC?
Thanks Hufvudet [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
Haven’t got a PC hooked up myself but according to AVforums PC connections disables AI upscaling:

https://www.avforums.com/review/sams...v-review.16084
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post #4572 of 6398 Old 06-14-2019, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Wheaton View Post
i thought this was backwards. Normal=limited (as in tv standard) and low=full (as in lower black levels)
Try it yourself. Set your PC to output RGB Limited, and display an all-RGB 0,0,0 image full screen. With HDMI Black Level set to Low, the screen will be black; with it set to Normal, it will be grayish. Set your PC to output RGB Full, and display an all-RGB 16,16,16 image full screen. With HDMI Black Level set to Low, the screen will be black; with it set to Normal, it will be grayish.
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post #4573 of 6398 Old 06-14-2019, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thoth View Post
You have to look at the Picture Quality section of their Q900R review, but there isn't an explicit statement. They have a pair of images showing differences between Movie and Standard modes. Whether that's due to the AI aspects being disabled in Movie mode, or enabled but configured to be less aggressive, is unclear to me from those images alone (with no reference to an original), but their statement "the Movie picture mode is staying true to the video creator’s intent, without added sharpness and other enhancements", seems to imply they believe aspects are disabled.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hufvudet View Post
Read the two first paragraphs under “picture quality” and then this from the linked (in the article) Q900R review:

“Of course, a TV cannot magically find extra pixels in the picture so it has to process the source material that is available. In Standard picture mode, the TV adds – even with all dynamic picture settings off – a fair amount of sharpness to the picture. For comparison, the Movie picture mode is staying true to the video creator’s intent, without added sharpness and other enhancements, which is illustrated in the photo above. Notice the brick wall in the picture or the text printed on the bricks. What you are seeing is an added shadow edge that is designed to enhance edges to make it appear more detailed. Also notice that it is not actually adding extra detail in the picture and that it in several spots, for example the edge of the shadow of the figurine on the wall, is simply adding the same dark – and somewhat unnatural looking – rim.

Whether or not you like the result will depend on your preferences but to see the effects of Samsung’s system you must use another picture mode than Movie mode, which also involves doing lots of tweaking to get accurate pictures. You will get far just by changing the color temperature but the white (color) balance still needs adjustment, which is very hard without measurement equipment.”

I don’t know this for a fact so somebody please correct me if I’m wrong. But I also see a difference in added sharpness between upscaled content in standard and movie mode.
Thank you for the replies guys. However, since I don't see anything saying specifically that Movie mode doesn't use AI Upscaling, I'm going to remain a little skeptical for now. I'm thinking that the Quantum Processor is smart enough to vary how it upscales. It could easily use a different algorithm for Movie mode by not adding enhancements.

Doesn't the TV have to upscale everything that isn't already 4K anyway?

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post #4574 of 6398 Old 06-14-2019, 04:13 PM
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And what?

That video has been up for awhile now.
It made me sad... Vincent is my favorite reviewer and the video clearly shows X950G is better. Why has Vinny forsaken us?!
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post #4575 of 6398 Old 06-14-2019, 04:27 PM
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Doesn't the TV have to upscale everything that isn't already 4K anyway?
The key thing here is the "AI" object-based-analysis aspects of the upscaling. What all that encompasses, I don't know; I've never seen any detailed explanation of what processing effects it includes.
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post #4576 of 6398 Old 06-14-2019, 06:36 PM
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For now. Samsung usually does a staggered rollout for automatic updates, so it might be a few weeks before you see it automatically show up on your TV.
Thanks, I'm not a patient person so I upgraded via USB tonight. Didn't get a chance to explore for any changes yet.
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post #4577 of 6398 Old 06-14-2019, 07:15 PM
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Holy Moly I just got home and found that my extended One Connect cable arrived today. It's a nice looking cable, but an "Invisible Connection" it most certainly is not. I have pretty beefy HDMI cables that would be significantly easier to hide than this thing.


OTOH, as long as it works without drama I can't really complain, considering that it is almost 50 feet long, but it certainly hammers home for me just how much power this display consumes. Can't wait to see the electric bill next month!
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post #4578 of 6398 Old 06-14-2019, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by mike123abc View Post

Side note, I actually received the tv Wednesday and the display was trashed. The freight co didn’t inform me when he arrived, plopped the tv flat in my loading dock and took off. Talk about a facepalm moment. Literally stuff all over the box about not laying it flat. It won’t even turn on. Anyway the replacement tv is already on the way and Monday the new tv will be sent and my broken one picked up.
Another great display bought by the insurance company

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OTOH, as long as it works without drama I can't really complain, considering that it is almost 50 feet long, but it certainly hammers home for me just how much power this display consumes. Can't wait to see the electric bill next month!
I doubt you will even notice the difference.
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post #4579 of 6398 Old 06-14-2019, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by courtneyc View Post
Hey all! I have my TV being delivered Monday (82”) and i was curious if any of the reviews out there have tested vertical viewing angles.

I would prefer to mount the tv flat on the wall but I’m concerned from the seating position that without tilting it’ll wash out. It’s my understanding the new viewing angle improvement only deals with horizontal angles not vertical angles.

I’d be curious if someone has tested the vertical impact.

The tv is going to be used to replace a triple monitor setup for a display to work and I have a desk I use standing and sitting. If the tv is flat mounted i can position it between the two positions so I’m slightly above center when standing and below center when sitting. If the off axis vertical picture quality is crap though maybe I’ll meed a mount that can quickly adjust tilt?

Any advise would be appreciated! Perhaps there’s a mount that makes it easy to adjust the tilt in a few seconds when changing position as well? Other mounts I’ve had in the past adjust swivel easily but the tilt not so much.

Side note, I actually received the tv Wednesday and the display was trashed. The freight co didn’t inform me when he arrived, plopped the tv flat in my loading dock and took off. Talk about a facepalm moment. Literally stuff all over the box about not laying it flat. It won’t even turn on. Anyway the replacement tv is already on the way and Monday the new tv will be sent and my broken one picked up.

Some fun pics of the damage included 🙂
Could the Mods please put some kind of warning on this post?! Seeing such a beautiful and innocent tv in such a state... I am going to have nightmares.
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post #4580 of 6398 Old 06-14-2019, 07:44 PM
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I doubt you will even notice the difference.

lol thinking about it a bit you are absolutely right. I won't notice a thing and realistically wouldn't care a bit even if I did. Given the sheer number of things that are running in this household 24/7 the difference won't even be a rounding error. Even still, it would probably give fits to anyone for whom going green is a way of life.





It really is thicker than every other Invisible cable though. It's still relatively flexible but will be somewhat more difficult to hide for anyone who needs/wants to run it in the open. There's no getting around it...you WILL see this cable if it is hanging down.

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post #4581 of 6398 Old 06-14-2019, 08:36 PM
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Anybody else seen screwy info displayed when using remote control codes for switching to specific HDMI sources? I have buttons on my Logitech remote with discrete codes to switch to each of the HDMI sources. Most of the time, if I press a button to switch to a given source, and then press the button again to get the info bar to pop up on the Q90R, the info displayed is screwed up. The info bar shows "<NAME> HDMI <n>", e.g., "Comcast HDMI 3", where <NAME> is supposed to be the name edited into the Q90R for that source. It also shows source format and Game Mode if enabled. But most of the time, if I switch between sources and bring up the info bar, the <NAME>, format, and game mode shown are for a different source; the only thing that's right is the HDMI port number. For example, when viewing HDMI 3, which is "Comcast" cable, I'll switch to my PC on HDMI 4, where the configured source name is "PC", and the info bar will show "Comcast HDMI 4", or I'll switch to my Bluray player on HDMI 2, and the info bar will show "Comcast HDMI 2". And the format will still be showing 1920x1080/60p instead of 3840x2160/60p, and "Game Mode" won't be shown for the PC. Similarly, I may start out on HDMI 4 with PC info displaying correctly, but then switching to other sources will incorrectly show "PC HDMI 2" or "PC HDMI 3", and will incorrectly show "Game Mode". Pressing the button on the remote again quickly enough, before the info bar times out and disappears, causes the data to change to the proper data for that source. Another oddity, on the left of the info bar is a source icon. For my PC, it shows the PC icon (good), but for HDMI 2 and HDMI 3, the icon is an HDMI connector that always has "HDMI 4" above it. This is on firmware 1065.
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post #4582 of 6398 Old 06-14-2019, 09:15 PM
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Holy Moly I just got home and found that my extended One Connect cable arrived today. It's a nice looking cable, but an "Invisible Connection" it most certainly is not. I have pretty beefy HDMI cables that would be significantly easier to hide than this thing.


OTOH, as long as it works without drama I can't really complain, considering that it is almost 50 feet long, but it certainly hammers home for me just how much power this display consumes. Can't wait to see the electric bill next month!


is the 2019 cable still called "invisible"? the cable got noticeably thicker when they started putting the power in the ocb.
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post #4583 of 6398 Old 06-14-2019, 10:30 PM
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is the 2019 cable still called "invisible"? the cable got noticeably thicker when they started putting the power in the ocb.


Same thickness as the q9fn cable.
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post #4584 of 6398 Old 06-14-2019, 11:28 PM
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is the 2019 cable still called "invisible"? the cable got noticeably thicker when they started putting the power in the ocb.

Yeah they still call it that. I finally got around to pulling all the previous cables out of the conduit so I have every iteration of the One Connect cable sitting here. The Q9 one is almost like fishing line (no power of course). The Q9FN cable is the same cable gauge-wise as the Q90 short cable, but the 50' Q90 cable is somewhat thicker than the 15'. Even the box is twice the size of the previous ones.



If the trend continues maybe next year's cable will be of similar thickness to my Belden Series-1 HDMI cables.

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post #4585 of 6398 Old 06-15-2019, 03:28 AM
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Originally Posted by thoth View Post
Anybody else seen screwy info displayed when using remote control codes for switching to specific HDMI sources? I have buttons on my Logitech remote with discrete codes to switch to each of the HDMI sources. Most of the time, if I press a button to switch to a given source, and then press the button again to get the info bar to pop up on the Q90R, the info displayed is screwed up. The info bar shows "<NAME> HDMI <n>", e.g., "Comcast HDMI 3", where <NAME> is supposed to be the name edited into the Q90R for that source. It also shows source format and Game Mode if enabled. But most of the time, if I switch between sources and bring up the info bar, the <NAME>, format, and game mode shown are for a different source; the only thing that's right is the HDMI port number. For example, when viewing HDMI 3, which is "Comcast" cable, I'll switch to my PC on HDMI 4, where the configured source name is "PC", and the info bar will show "Comcast HDMI 4", or I'll switch to my Bluray player on HDMI 2, and the info bar will show "Comcast HDMI 2". And the format will still be showing 1920x1080/60p instead of 3840x2160/60p, and "Game Mode" won't be shown for the PC. Similarly, I may start out on HDMI 4 with PC info displaying correctly, but then switching to other sources will incorrectly show "PC HDMI 2" or "PC HDMI 3", and will incorrectly show "Game Mode". Pressing the button on the remote again quickly enough, before the info bar times out and disappears, causes the data to change to the proper data for that source. Another oddity, on the left of the info bar is a source icon. For my PC, it shows the PC icon (good), but for HDMI 2 and HDMI 3, the icon is an HDMI connector that always has "HDMI 4" above it. This is on firmware 1065.
yes, and still does it on 1303 also. If i **** tv off for few it corrects itself.
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post #4586 of 6398 Old 06-15-2019, 07:05 AM
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Awesome! That's great to hear. Just curious, how far from the screen is your sitting position?
10ft

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post #4587 of 6398 Old 06-15-2019, 07:47 AM
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Thanks, I'm not a patient person so I upgraded via USB tonight. Didn't get a chance to explore for any changes yet.
Any chance for checking whether this update brings eARC support?
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post #4588 of 6398 Old 06-15-2019, 09:05 AM
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It made me sad... Vincent is my favorite reviewer and the video clearly shows X950G is better. Why has Vinny forsaken us?!
Wow...ok sure.

The blooming alone makes the 950G a non starter for me. The trouble with that video is that Vincent concentrates on comparing all the performance metrics where we already know Sony is class leading.

He’s really nitpicking and also comparing the sets side by side. I suspect the majority of us would be lucky to see the slight differences he’s reporting. Heck, probably Vincent would have a hard telling you which set was which in a blind test.

I owned and compared a Z9F, which is better than the 950G, with a Q90 and ended up keeping the Q90. Vincent also stated that the Q90 was the best 4K LED LCD of 2019 in his review, which came after his review of the 950G.
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post #4589 of 6398 Old 06-15-2019, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by BRAC View Post
Wow...ok sure.

The blooming alone makes the 950G a non starter for me. The trouble with that video is that Vincent concentrates on comparing all the performance metrics where we already know Sony is class leading.

He’s really nitpicking and also comparing the sets side by side. I suspect the majority of us would be lucky to see the slight differences he’s reporting. Heck, probably Vincent would have a hard telling you which set was which in a blind test.

I owned and compared a Z9F, which is better than the 950G, with a Q90 and ended up keeping the Q90. Vincent also stated that the Q90 was the best 4K LED LCD of 2019 in his review, which came after his review of the 950G.
See I feel better now! Actually I have obviously done a poor job of making a funny post, I was satirizing people who are saying they will return their tv due to the results of a shootout . Also Vincent is a poop. =D
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post #4590 of 6398 Old 06-15-2019, 10:17 AM
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See I feel better now! Actually I have obviously done a poor job of making a funny post, I was satirizing people who are saying they will return their tv due to the results of a shootout . Also Vincent is a poop. =D

You never know around here. Lol

People make some bold and crazy statements on this forum.
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