2019 Samsung Q90R Owners Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 192 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5731 of 6350 Old 08-21-2019, 04:12 AM
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If I’m not mistaken...this Standard mode FALD, with internal apps, issue was talked about and discussed back much earlier in this thread. Luckily it does not affect me, as I’m using Movie mode exclusively, but hopefully it does get addressed via firmware update. I wonder if Samsung is aware of the issue?
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post #5732 of 6350 Old 08-21-2019, 06:53 AM
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Thanks, I just did it all the past month. everyone that's seen it in person has been extremely impressed.
Wall Paper to boot...

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I purchased on release date.
This problem began about 2-3 weeks ago. I thought it would go away on its own but it hasn't.
That is odd, that is a warranty claim for sure, call Samsung 1 (800) 726-7864.
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post #5733 of 6350 Old 08-21-2019, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BRAC View Post
If I’m not mistaken...this Standard mode FALD, with internal apps, issue was talked about and discussed back much earlier in this thread. Luckily it does not affect me, as I’m using Movie mode exclusively, but hopefully it does get addressed via firmware update. I wonder if Samsung is aware of the issue?


I’m with you. I only use movie mode and have had no issues. Well, I also don’t use the internal apps so there’s that. The only weirdness I see is with Hulu and some dark scenes showing a flickering of sorts. Have no idea what that is, but it’s minor.


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post #5734 of 6350 Old 08-21-2019, 09:25 PM
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I ran a set up disk with tones and an SPL to set the levels.

BUT my subwoofer does NOT come on at all when it is JUST the SUB on the test disk.

It works with the other speakers though?
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post #5735 of 6350 Old 08-22-2019, 10:02 AM
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I ran a set up disk with tones and an SPL to set the levels.

BUT my subwoofer does NOT come on at all when it is JUST the SUB on the test disk.

It works with the other speakers though?
Have you checked that the disk player and audio amplifier indicates a sound format that includes the x.1-channel?
Is this post a follow-up so you already have described your setup?
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post #5736 of 6350 Old 08-24-2019, 12:23 PM
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As Vincent Toeh pointed out, the EOTF curve is super aggressive on the Q90r and tends to clip specular highlights. The Panasonic UB9000 and the less expensive 820 version can apply its own tone mapping packaged up for various TV types (high/med/low nit LCD, OLED etc). As it appears Samsung’s tone-mapping in cinema mode is a bit crazy, would a Panasonic UB9000 4K player help this situation? Seems like the ideal pairing but I’m hoping someone might have first hand experience with this combo. The TV is great, but being able to somewhat compensate (game?) an aggressive EOTF curve seems like it would make this TV near perfect for HDR 4K Blu-Ray playback.

Let me know your thoughts.

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post #5737 of 6350 Old 08-24-2019, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Majister View Post
As Vincent Toeh pointed out, the EOTF curve is super aggressive on the Q90r and tends to clip specular highlights. The Panasonic UB9000 and the less expensive 820 version can apply its own tone mapping packaged up for various TV types (high/med/low nit LCD, OLED etc). As it appears Samsung’s tone-mapping in cinema mode is a bit crazy, would a Panasonic UB9000 4K player help this situation? Seems like the ideal pairing but I’m hoping someone might have first hand experience with this combo. The TV is great, but being able to somewhat compensate (game?) an aggressive EOTF curve seems like it would make this TV near perfect for HDR 4K Blu-Ray playback.

Let me know your thoughts.
I do not have the equipment to test but supposedly setting contrast to 40-45 when watching HDR material will get the EOTF closer to industry standards. There is discussion of it in the Calman Home for Samsung thread.
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post #5738 of 6350 Old 08-24-2019, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Majister View Post
As Vincent Toeh pointed out, the EOTF curve is super aggressive on the Q90r and tends to clip specular highlights. The Panasonic UB9000 and the less expensive 820 version can apply its own tone mapping packaged up for various TV types (high/med/low nit LCD, OLED etc). As it appears Samsung’s tone-mapping in cinema mode is a bit crazy, would a Panasonic UB9000 4K player help this situation? Seems like the ideal pairing but I’m hoping someone might have first hand experience with this combo. The TV is great, but being able to somewhat compensate (game?) an aggressive EOTF curve seems like it would make this TV near perfect for HDR 4K Blu-Ray playback.

Let me know your thoughts.
I asked Vincent this question on Twitter and he told me the optimizer would do nothing since the final tone mapping is done at the display.

I tested the optimizer myself a few days ago and it definitely effects the image. Vincent isn't technically a liar, but his answer was based on assumption and not actually trying it. I hate that.

I also believe that turning gamma to -1 will also help the Eotf curve because the picture becomes instantly less blown out looking.
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post #5739 of 6350 Old 08-24-2019, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
I asked Vincent this question on Twitter and he told me the optimizer would do nothing since the final tone mapping is done at the display.

I tested the optimizer myself a few days ago and it definitely effects the image. Vincent isn't technically a liar, but his answer was based on assumption and not actually trying it. I hate that.

I also believe that turning gamma to -1 will also help the Eotf curve because the picture becomes instantly less blown out looking.
Ya, that’s strange he’d say that because based on his review that’s exactly what he said the player did was repackage the HDR and tone map it appropriately for the TV type and nit output. He mentioned that if you don’t select the correct nit output for HDR optimization from the UB9000 then it would have no benefit...but to say it does nothing hmmm that voids a big plus for the 9000 in his review.

That said, nice to hear you are having a different experience. You said it affects the image, but in a good way? Or in a way that doesn’t justify that cost?

I picked up the pioneer LX500 and before I open it just want to sort out if maybe the UB9000 is the way to go.

I have one other question, if I’m not using analogue outs on these high end 4K players, does it make sense to get these high end units vs a UB820. I’ll only use HDMI out, so I’m wondering if it’s really money wasted for these audiophile bits.

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post #5740 of 6350 Old 08-24-2019, 04:13 PM
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Ya, that’s strange he’d say that because based on his review that’s exactly what he said the player did was repackage the HDR and tone map it appropriately for the TV type and nit output. He mentioned that if you don’t select the correct nit output for HDR optimization from the UB9000 then it would have no benefit...but to say it does nothing hmmm that voids a big plus for the 9000 in his review.

That said, nice to hear you are having a different experience. You said it affects the image, but in a good way? Or in a way that doesn’t justify that cost?

I picked up the pioneer LX500 and before I open it just want to sort out if maybe the UB9000 is the way to go.

I have one other question, if I’m not using analogue outs on these high end 4K players, does it make sense to get these high end units vs a UB820. I’ll only use HDMI out, so I’m wondering if it’s really money wasted for these audiophile bits.
Yes that's exactly what he said, that the TV will apply dynamic tone mapping and therefore make no difference but I can tell you that toggling on and off it has the same effect as it did on my Q9FN.

Yes, 100% go with the 820. I have the 820 myself. The KY difference besides the audio part is the remote which u can get off ebay or replacementremotes.com because the included remote is absolute trash. The Netflix button is right next to an arrow key and you always accidentally press it, it's a huge complaint.
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post #5741 of 6350 Old 08-24-2019, 04:18 PM
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I think I might post a mini detailed review later of my 82Q90. I've spent a lot of time with the TV this week to compare it to my 75Q9FN (rest in peace). Definitely some major surprises.
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post #5742 of 6350 Old 08-24-2019, 06:06 PM
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The following are based on my 75"; YMMV.

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Originally Posted by tonyjspr9 View Post
i do not have the equipment to test but supposedly setting contrast to 40-45 when watching hdr material will get the eotf closer to industry standards.
Yes, but you need to be careful if you don't have calibration equipment. If you lower Contrast too much, you'll end up below the EOTF curve on the lower (blacker) end. On my 75", setting Contrast to 43 is about the right spot. Lowering Contrast also improves color accuracy. But, caveat, it's unclear to me what impact it might have on tone mapping, particularly for >1000 nit content.

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i also believe that turning gamma to -1 will also help the eotf curve because the picture becomes instantly less blown out looking.
I wouldn't recommend this, as it pulls you below the EOTF curve at the top, and makes color accuracy worse.

Another approach is to lower Backlight, but again you need to be careful, as lowering it too much will also put you below the EOTF curve on the lower end. On my 75", the break point is around Backlight 40. But, be aware that this approach is reducing the HDR max brightness. On mine, it dropped to ~1173 nits. Reducing Backlight also improves color accuracy. Lowering Backlight might have less of an impact on tone mapping than lowering Contrast; I don't know.

Attached are measurements for HDR (Movie, Warm2) at default settings, with Contrast 43, with Backlight 40, and with Gamma -1. No other calibration changes were made. Done with CalMAN Home for Samsung, SpectraCal C6 HDR2000, and VideoForge Pro.
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post #5743 of 6350 Old 08-24-2019, 07:27 PM
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The following are based on my 75"; YMMV.



Yes, but you need to be careful if you don't have calibration equipment. If you lower Contrast too much, you'll end up below the EOTF curve on the lower (blacker) end. On my 75", setting Contrast to 43 is about the right spot. Lowering Contrast also improves color accuracy. But, caveat, it's unclear to me what impact it might have on tone mapping, particularly for >1000 nit content.



I wouldn't recommend this, as it pulls you below the EOTF curve at the top, and makes color accuracy worse.

Another approach is to lower Backlight, but again you need to be careful, as lowering it too much will also put you below the EOTF curve on the lower end. On my 75", the break point is around Backlight 40. But, be aware that this approach is reducing the HDR max brightness. On mine, it dropped to ~1173 nits. Reducing Backlight also improves color accuracy. Lowering Backlight might have less of an impact on tone mapping than lowering Contrast; I don't know.

Attached are measurements for HDR (Movie, Warm2) at default settings, with Contrast 43, with Backlight 40, and with Gamma -1. No other calibration changes were made. Done with CalMAN Home for Samsung, SpectraCal C6 HDR2000, and VideoForge Pro.


What happens if you put gamma between -1 and - 3, and then put dynamic contrast on low? This seems to give nice pop and restore the loss is brightness but in the end has more detail and more depth and is less washy than keeping gamma at 0 and not using dynamic contrast at all. I don't have equipment so any feedback would be great.

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post #5744 of 6350 Old 08-24-2019, 07:39 PM
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What happens if you put gae between -1 and - 3, and then put dynamic contrast on low?
gae = gamma? dynamic contrast = Contrast Enhancer? Sorry, I'm not interested in using Contrast Enhancer. I'm spending enough time already just calibrating for my own use. (I'd already been down the paths I posted about.)
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post #5745 of 6350 Old 08-25-2019, 12:05 AM
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gae = gamma? dynamic contrast = Contrast Enhancer? Sorry, I'm not interested in using Contrast Enhancer. I'm spending enough time already just calibrating for my own use. (I'd already been down the paths I posted about.)
I wouldn't write it off because of the history.

If someone like a professional such as Chad B can be pursueaded and then impressed by it for Samsung tvs, then I'm sure you can at least experiment.

Check out the following testimonial from another member with his Chad B calibration. Not only did they find contrast enhancer helped the set, but they also needed to bump up the dynamic range setting on the Panasonic UB820 to +5. Both of which are frowned upon by AVS members because of some "unwritten rules".

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MASTER LIST OF HDR CONTENT THREAD HERE, UPDATED OFTEN
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post #5746 of 6350 Old 08-25-2019, 09:48 AM
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I may need to experiment with my 820’s HDR Optimizer a bit more. I have it turned off now, as I found that it didn’t play nice with the Q90’s over aggressive EOTF curve. The image is simply too bright and overblown with it on.

Initially I thought that it looked great, but upon closer inspection I found that all the bright highlights were being badly clipped and film grain was being overemphasized in a huge way. Blade Runner 4K is a great disc to use to pinpoint the differences. The image pop was outstanding with it on, but the clipped highlights and excessive film grain proved to be too much.

Ray, what are your suggestions for HDR settings to get the best out of both the Q90 and the 820?
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post #5747 of 6350 Old 08-25-2019, 01:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Using the built in Sling application and finding it completely unstable, with pretty mediocre video quality. Is this normal? Was happy with Hulu but needed NFL Redzone. On my iPad it was far more stable.
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post #5748 of 6350 Old 08-25-2019, 02:44 PM
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I wouldn't write it off because of the history.
I know nothing about the history. I can tell from my Gamma -1 data that measuring those combinations would be a waste of time, that accuracy will suck. You're combining two conflicting mechanisms: lowering Gamma is pulling the curve down, more so at the upper end, and Contrast Enhancer is pulling the curve up, probably more so at the lower/middle sections. The result is likely a train wreck, and both EOTF and color accuracy will suffer.

If you like "ditching the ... software and doing it more freestyle/by eye" to get a result that you like, by all means have at it. It doesn't interest me.
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post #5749 of 6350 Old 08-25-2019, 06:15 PM
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Yes, the TV does pass 5.1 via Optical with its built in apps.

I use the TV apps for Netflix, Amazon Prime, Vudu, & YouTube regularly. They look as good to me as the same Apps on my DP-UB820.

You should check out the TV apps first and you can always buy an ATV4K or Roku Ultra later if you're not happy.
Very cool. I’ll definitely check out the apps first. Thank you for your reply.
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post #5750 of 6350 Old 08-25-2019, 06:45 PM
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According to this it’s available on few streamers. Not sure about the built in app. I’ve yet to find anything I normally watch on Hulu in 4K though.


https://www.theverge.com/2019/7/12/2...vailable-again

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Yeah, did a bit of research online and found that the Apple TV 4K and Roku offer the DC Universe channel in 4K. But apparently the Samsung doesn’t even have that channel available at all, so I’m going to have to use an outboard streamer to watch that channel at least.

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Originally Posted by ohyeah32 View Post
Yeah, did a bit of research online and found that the Apple TV 4K and Roku offer the DC Universe channel in 4K. But apparently the Samsung doesn’t even have that channel available at all, so I’m going to have to use an outboard streamer to watch that channel at least.
Connecting HDMI to the TV and routing 5.1 sound back to the amplifier, I would expect that you will suffer from the delayed sound problem I described in my earlier answer to your question. Report back how it works. (If you can run the streamer HDMI through the amplifier, with correct audio delay setting for the streamer input, it should work.)
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post #5752 of 6350 Old 08-25-2019, 10:49 PM
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Connecting HDMI to the TV and routing 5.1 sound back to the amplifier, I would expect that you will suffer from the delayed sound problem I described in my earlier answer to your question. Report back how it works. (If you can run the streamer HDMI through the amplifier, with correct audio delay setting for the streamer input, it should work.)
Just praying for that eARC update...

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post #5753 of 6350 Old 08-26-2019, 12:20 AM
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Nice processor, I'm running the AV7702mkII. I run all sources though it, one hdmi to the tv. Logitech elite remote handles everything. Very simple set up. You'll get Dolby Atmos which you will not get through ARC or optical. eARC may or may not come to the Q90R. Must have an AVR or Processor with eARC too. If you do get the 4k Apple TV box or Roku Ultra, connect it to your processor, you'll get Atmos (if you're running that) plus lossless. Optical does not pass Dolby HD or DTS master.
Yeah, the 8801 has been a great processor, but it’s old and can’t pass 4K and HDR as it’s only HDMI 1.4. I need a new processor with HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2. But for the here and now I have to use the AV8801. I just hope I don’t run into lip sync issues running an HDMI for audio to the 8801 and the video HDMI directly to the TV. For now the only device I will have to do this with is a Panasonic UB9000 I just purchased a week ago.

My 82Q90R is scheduled to be delivered and installed by Best Buy this Tuesday. So I will find out if the audio will be problematic. I really hope not, as I have waited a very long time to find a TV that checks pretty much all the boxes. The 82Q90R seems to be that TV, but if the audio is out of sync that will be a not so fun thing to deal with.

I’ve heard the 7702mkII is a nice unit, how are you liking it? I have my sights set on the AV8805, but wonder how much I’ll be sacrificing if I go the AV7702mk II route instead.
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post #5754 of 6350 Old 08-26-2019, 12:23 AM
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Does anyone have a problem with the TV just shutting off by itself? I've had it happen twice in the last half an hour while in the middle of an xbox one x game. I have the the TV hooked up to the q90 soundbar via arc and then the Xbox directly into the soundbar. All intelligent settings are turned off on the tv. Cant figure it out.
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post #5755 of 6350 Old 08-26-2019, 12:34 AM
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Originally Posted by JanB View Post
Connecting HDMI to the TV and routing 5.1 sound back to the amplifier, I would expect that you will suffer from the delayed sound problem I described in my earlier answer to your question. Report back how it works. (If you can run the streamer HDMI through the amplifier, with correct audio delay setting for the streamer input, it should work.)
Curious, is there a lip sync issue only when connecting an HDMI device into the TV and then going optical out to a receiver or processor? I plan on only using the TVs built in apps for now (optical out to processor for sound), and the only outboard device will be a Panasonic UB9000. One HDMI from the UB9000 to the TV for picture and the second HDMI out from the UB9000 for sound to a Marantz AV8801. Should this cause any audio problems?
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post #5756 of 6350 Old 08-26-2019, 12:48 AM
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I have no clue as to what picture settings will give the best picture out of the box. What are most of you using for HD sources and 4K HDR? Standard, Movie, etc? Also what things should I turn off in settings?

I don’t have the TV yet (getting it on Tuesday) but I want to find out before hand? Also I’m not really sure I’m going to like the minimalist remote that is supplied with the TV, so I ordered a standard remote like the one that comes with the European Q90R. This should make doing any adjustments much easier.
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post #5757 of 6350 Old 08-26-2019, 05:05 AM
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Originally Posted by ohyeah32 View Post
Also I’m not really sure I’m going to like the minimalist remote that is supplied with the TV, so I ordered a standard remote like the one that comes with the European Q90R. This should make doing any adjustments much easier.
I'm interested in one of these, do you have a model number?
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post #5758 of 6350 Old 08-26-2019, 06:30 AM
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Looks like Samsung pulled the July firmware from the web page. Maybe the new update is pending?
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post #5759 of 6350 Old 08-26-2019, 07:15 AM
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I have no clue as to what picture settings will give the best picture out of the box.
Depends entirely on what you like. The most accurate will be Movie with Warm2, for both SDR and HDR, with Local Dimming at Low or Standard for SDR, and left at High for HDR. Turn down Backlight for SDR if it's too bright, but not too low (15 is ~100 nits on my 75").
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post #5760 of 6350 Old 08-26-2019, 08:24 AM
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Any body have this problem I have a 82Q90r and I really love it. I have the One Connect Box Optical Connected to my Emotiva XMC-1 Pre-Amp and it works great but only 5.1. Last night I tried Amazon Prime using the Samsung App and I get no sound out of the Connect One Box but seems to work with every thing else.

Emovita XMC-1, 2 XPA-1's, XPA-5, Salk Ht3 L/R Salk Center, 2 V1500 Subs, Pioneer Elite 60", KDlinks A400 Media Player, Pioneer Elite DVD, Emovita CD
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