2019 Samsung Q90R Owners Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 230 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6871 of 7439 Old 11-28-2019, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by samven582 View Post
are these tvs plagued with Dead/stuck pixels?


Depends on your definition of “plague”.

But seriously, I’ve only heard a few folks having issues with stuck pixels. I certainly don’t have any on my 75”.


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post #6872 of 7439 Old 11-28-2019, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by ionblue View Post
Depends on your definition of “plague”.

But seriously, I’ve only heard a few folks having issues with stuck pixels. I certainly don’t have any on my 75”.


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The reason I asked is because the Sony's are plagued with. Just wondering if the higher end Samsung's are better.
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post #6873 of 7439 Old 11-28-2019, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by samven582 View Post
The reason I asked is because the Sony's are plagued with. Just wondering if the higher end Samsung's are better.


Gotcha. I don’t think it’s a major issue on the Samsung line. Doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen, but that wouldn’t put me off from buying one. They’re great TVs.


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post #6874 of 7439 Old 11-28-2019, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by ggw2000 View Post
Has anyone had their 75 Q90R professionally calibrated? Is it worth the money to do this on this TV?
Calibration is definitely worthwhile to me; enough so that I calibrate my 75" myself. Assuming you mean calibrate for accuracy, are you already using Movie picture mode and Warm2 color tone, for both SDR and HDR? And do you basically like how it looks? Movie/Warm2 with default settings is already fairly accurate for SDR, but calibration improves accuracy even further, with results that I'm quite happy with. Movie/Warm2 with default settings isn't all that accurate for HDR, so calibration definitely improves accuracy, but I'd say the results are only so-so, with color accuracy being worse than grayscale accuracy.
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post #6875 of 7439 Old 11-28-2019, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by GeneWildersHair View Post
Why are Game mode black levels terrible compared to when you turn the mode off? Is local dimming even working in Game mode?
Is the problem with SDR or HDR, or both? I don't have a problem with either. First, do you have Game Enhancer turned off? For SDR, I use Game mode with PC mode (on HDMI 4), so I can't speak to non-PC mode, as I haven't done measurements of it. With PC mode plus Game mode, using 8-bit RGB Full and Warm2, default Gamma is very elevated. I set Gamma to BT.1886-3, which still results in an elevated curve in the 0-50% range, but is much improved over BT.1886+0. I also do 2 point white balance. For HDR, I use Game mode without PC mode, using 10-bit YCbCr 4:2:2. For HDR I drop Contrast down to 47, leave Gamma at ST.2084+0, and do white balance.
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post #6876 of 7439 Old 11-28-2019, 05:55 PM
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I know the Q90 does not support Dolby Vision. If you stream a Netflix Dolby Vision movie, can the Q90 display it? If so, how is it processed...how does it look?
Dual layer is only used in disc. For streaming, they are 2 seperate grades. So when Samsung access an HDR movie on Netflix, they are directly getting the HDR10 version. Having a dual layer takes up alot more bandwidth, so single layer is what streaming sites do.


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If they incorporate HDR10 in their container then it would use that. From what I’ve read some content creators do this, but Netflix doesn’t come right out and say they do it. I’ve watched several DV titles and they look pretty good, but I can’t tell you what’s going on behind the scenes on it.




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post #6877 of 7439 Old 11-28-2019, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by thoth View Post
Is the problem with SDR or HDR, or both? I don't have a problem with either. First, do you have Game Enhancer turned off? For SDR, I use Game mode with PC mode (on HDMI 4), so I can't speak to non-PC mode, as I haven't done measurements of it. With PC mode plus Game mode, using 8-bit RGB Full and Warm2, default Gamma is very elevated. I set Gamma to BT.1886-3, which still results in an elevated curve in the 0-50% range, but is much improved over BT.1886+0. I also do 2 point white balance. For HDR, I use Game mode without PC mode, using 10-bit YCbCr 4:2:2. For HDR I drop Contrast down to 47, leave Gamma at ST.2084+0, and do white balance.
There's definitely an issue at least on my TV with Game mode. Game enhancer is off (found that to be terrible to use), and no matter how low or high I adjust my gamma and brightness there's still an overall gray tint to black. It may look fine at times, but I do an a/b comparison with game on and off, I can see that the blacks are inky with game mode off, and again a bit on the gray side with it on. If I try to adjust local dimming I see no change at all between standard and High, and low just results in an overall less bright image.


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post #6878 of 7439 Old 11-28-2019, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by samven582 View Post
The reason I asked is because the Sony's are plagued with. Just wondering if the higher end Samsung's are better.
I don't think stuck pixels are a major concern on Samsungs, but it does happen. I've purchased 7 Samsung displays in the last 4 years and only 1 of them had a stuck pixel. Of course that's anecdotal, but I consider it to be relatively decent odds.
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post #6879 of 7439 Old 11-28-2019, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by GeneWildersHair View Post
There's definitely an issue at least on my TV with Game mode. Game enhancer is off (found that to be terrible to use), and no matter how low or high I adjust my gamma and brightness there's still an overall gray tint to black. It may look fine at times, but I do an a/b comparison with game on and off, I can see that the blacks are inky with game mode off, and again a bit on the gray side with it on. If I try to adjust local dimming I see no change at all between standard and High, and low just results in an overall less bright image.


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Samsung has done this for the past 2 years at least.

If you watch Vincent Teohs Q90 review from the Spring, he specifically shows the Q90 lifting blacks in game mode. Been a major complaint last year and this year.

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post #6880 of 7439 Old 11-28-2019, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
Samsung has done this for the past 2 years at least.



If you watch Vincent Teohs Q90 review from the Spring, he specifically shows the Q90 lifting blacks in game mode. Been a major complaint last year and this year.
What a shame. I guess I'll be playing non competitive games outside of Game Mode. Any way of fixing this issue other than Samsung miraculously sending a firmware update?

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post #6881 of 7439 Old 11-28-2019, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by thoth View Post
Calibration is definitely worthwhile to me; enough so that I calibrate my 75" myself. Assuming you mean calibrate for accuracy, are you already using Movie picture mode and Warm2 color tone, for both SDR and HDR? And do you basically like how it looks? Movie/Warm2 with default settings is already fairly accurate for SDR, but calibration improves accuracy even further, with results that I'm quite happy with. Movie/Warm2 with default settings isn't all that accurate for HDR, so calibration definitely improves accuracy, but I'd say the results are only so-so, with color accuracy being worse than grayscale accuracy.
Are you saying that HDR is so so no matter what you do as far as settings? Your last sentence..
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post #6882 of 7439 Old 11-28-2019, 07:26 PM
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Are you saying that HDR is so so no matter what you do as far as settings? Your last sentence..
From an accuracy perspective, yes, from what I've been able to achieve. That doesn't mean the picture is lousy, just that it isn't as accurate as I would hope. Maybe a pro can do better.
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post #6883 of 7439 Old 11-29-2019, 07:37 AM
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Dual layer is only used in disc. For streaming, they are 2 seperate grades. So when Samsung access an HDR movie on Netflix, they are directly getting the HDR10 version. Having a dual layer takes up alot more bandwidth, so single layer is what streaming sites do.


That makes total sense. Thanks for the added info!


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post #6884 of 7439 Old 11-29-2019, 08:01 AM
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no matter how low or high I adjust my gamma and brightness there's still an overall gray tint to black.
Just to be clear, for HDR are you altering Brightness or Contrast? If you're altering Brightness, try leaving it at 0 and lowering Contrast instead. For SDR, what output color depth&format does the console use for games?
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post #6885 of 7439 Old 11-29-2019, 08:01 AM
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Calibration is definitely worthwhile to me; enough so that I calibrate my 75" myself. Assuming you mean calibrate for accuracy, are you already using Movie picture mode and Warm2 color tone, for both SDR and HDR? And do you basically like how it looks? Movie/Warm2 with default settings is already fairly accurate for SDR, but calibration improves accuracy even further, with results that I'm quite happy with. Movie/Warm2 with default settings isn't all that accurate for HDR, so calibration definitely improves accuracy, but I'd say the results are only so-so, with color accuracy being worse than grayscale accuracy.


I must have an odd ball 75 then. Movie/Warm2 is nowhere near accurate for SDR. Skin tones are yellow to reddish like what you’d expect under tungsten lighting. For SDR I use Warm1, but for HDR I use standard. Skin tones in HDR are way more accurate to my eyes with this setting. I am using a basic 2 point white balance found on one of the review sites as well.

When I reached to the calibrator his first question was what mode are you using. I told him and also my settings above and he concurred that warm2 really isn’t all that accurate from what he’s seen. It will be interesting to see how the set looks after he’s done with it.

A question for you since you do your own calibration. What’s the accuracy drift over time in your estimation? On my 3 sets I had calibrated in the past, the RP Tv was the worst (understandable), the Pioneer plasma drifted only slightly and I recalibrated after a few years, and the Panasonic plasma barely drifted at all.

I did consider doing the calibration myself, but all I own is a Spyder 5 and no hardware pattern generator. Wasn’t sure how accurate of a calibration I could do.


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post #6886 of 7439 Old 11-29-2019, 08:26 AM
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Just to be clear, for HDR are you altering Brightness or Contrast? If you're altering Brightness, try leaving it at 0 and lowering Contrast instead. For SDR, what output color depth&format does the console use for games?
Even when left at 0 & bringing down contrast for HDR looks terrible in game mode. Again, it's night and day difference when you switch out of Game mode. As Ray confirmed in a reply to me, Samsung has elevated black levels within game mode. No matter how much adjusting I try & do, I cannot get the blacks to be inky black like they are outside of Game mode.

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post #6887 of 7439 Old 11-29-2019, 08:31 AM
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I must have an odd ball 75 then. Movie/Warm2 is nowhere near accurate for SDR. Skin tones are yellow to reddish like what you’d expect under tungsten lighting. For SDR I use Warm1, but for HDR I use standard. Skin tones in HDR are way more accurate to my eyes with this setting.
Interesting, I don't think I've ever had a Samsung where Movie/Warm2 wasn't the most accurate.

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A question for you since you do your own calibration. What’s the accuracy drift over time in your estimation?
I got mine in May, and I probably average 10 hours per day of use. In September I had measurable drift from a calibration done about a month before. Since then it's been pretty stable.
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post #6888 of 7439 Old 11-29-2019, 08:43 AM
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are these tvs plagued with Dead/stuck pixels?
Dead/Stuck pixels are rare over all for just about all displays, does it happen yes, but not very often. All you have to do is scroll thru these posts and you will see this....
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post #6889 of 7439 Old 11-29-2019, 09:52 AM
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If you watch Vincent Teohs Q90 review from the Spring, he specifically shows the Q90 lifting blacks in game mode.
I just watched it again, and he only shows elevation when using Game Enhancer with Dynamic Black Equalizer. He doesn't comment on any problems with it turned off. Am I missing something?
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post #6890 of 7439 Old 11-29-2019, 09:58 AM
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I just watched it again, and he only shows elevation when using Game Enhancer with Dynamic Black Equalizer. He doesn't comment on any problems with it turned off. Am I missing something?
My bad. It's in his Q90 VS C9 video. Gaming comparison starts at 10:00 mark


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post #6891 of 7439 Old 11-29-2019, 10:24 AM
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My bad. It's in his Q90 VS C9 video.
Too bad he doesn't show or directly comment on Game mode on vs off for the Q90R, and interesting that he said nothing about it in his Q90R review.
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post #6892 of 7439 Old 11-29-2019, 02:04 PM
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I must have an odd ball 75 then. Movie/Warm2 is nowhere near accurate for SDR. Skin tones are yellow to reddish like what you’d expect under tungsten lighting. For SDR I use Warm1, but for HDR I use standard. Skin tones in HDR are way more accurate to my eyes with this setting.
For the heck of it, I just re-measured my 75" uncalibrated, and there's really no contest in Movie mode, Warm2 is more accurate than Warm1 at defaults, and Warm1 is more accurate than Standard, for both SDR and HDR, for both color and grayscale. Warm1 is over-blue and under-red, Standard even more so.
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post #6893 of 7439 Old 11-29-2019, 03:13 PM
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For the heck of it, I just re-measured my 75" uncalibrated, and there's really no contest in Movie mode, Warm2 is more accurate than Warm1 at defaults, and Warm1 is more accurate than Standard, for both SDR and HDR, for both color and grayscale. Warm1 is over-blue and under-red, Standard even more so.


I believe you. It’s just not very pleasing to my eyes. My calibration should be interesting.


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post #6894 of 7439 Old 11-29-2019, 04:34 PM
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Has anyone tested the local dimming with the new firmware to see if HDR in standard with LD on high is still broken in the built in apps?
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post #6895 of 7439 Old 11-29-2019, 05:22 PM
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Too bad he doesn't show or directly comment on Game mode on vs off for the Q90R, and interesting that he said nothing about it in his Q90R review.
I think he shows and says enough to let people know that Samsung has intentionally weakened the dimming to improve lag.

Speaking of which, can tour meter measure black levels to check some real life scenes with Game Mode turned on and off?


Also wanted to mention that I ordered my 1st "real" meter even though it's just a cheapy i1 Display Pro OEM that can clibrate up to 2000 nits. Looking forward to playing with that next week and figuring it all out.

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post #6896 of 7439 Old 11-29-2019, 05:39 PM
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Speaking of which, can tour meter measure black levels to check some real life scenes with Game Mode turned on and off?
What did you have in mind? I haven't really noticed a problem with any of the PC games I've played.
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post #6897 of 7439 Old 11-29-2019, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
I think he shows and says enough to let people know that Samsung has intentionally weakened the dimming to improve lag.

Speaking of which, can tour meter measure black levels to check some real life scenes with Game Mode turned on and off?


Also wanted to mention that I ordered my 1st "real" meter even though it's just a cheapy i1 Display Pro OEM that can clibrate up to 2000 nits. Looking forward to playing with that next week and figuring it all out.

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post #6898 of 7439 Old 11-29-2019, 06:58 PM
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Question Samsung Q90R + Denon + Roku + Xbox = No Source

I have a 2019 Samsung Q90R with a Denon AVR-X6500H hooked up to HDMI 3 (Anynet+ (HDMI-CEC) source). On the Denon I have a Roku Streaming Stick+. I have successfully triggered the Denon to turn off when the TV turns off (Can I get them to turn on together?) and I've been enjoying watching UHD HDR content for the past couple of months.

Last week I received an Xbox One X and I hooked that into my Denon. I don't know if I changed something in the Denon, the TV, or both, but now the Roku doesn't show up. When I switch to the Roku's source on the Denon, I get a spinny wheel on the TV, then a bright page that says "No Source". I don't hear the Roku if I launch Netflix or hit the Home button (I'm assuming this is because of ARC), and the only 100% way to get the Roku to show up is by unplugging it and plugging it back in. After I turn the TV off (which turns off the Denon) and I turn the TV back on, I'm back at the "No Source" again.

I've seen some success by selecting 4k HDR 30Hz as the display type in the Roku's settings, but even then I still sometimes get the No Source.

Is there a setting I'm missing? Is there a special order I need to power on my devices? Would it be better to just plug the Xbox and Roku in the One Connect box for the TV? The reason I haven't done that is because I'm pretty sure I'll lose the volume overly if I am not displaying from the Denon.

Any help would be fantastic!
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post #6899 of 7439 Old 11-29-2019, 07:57 PM
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Samsung has a ****y PC implementation. HDR is dimmer than in other modes on both Q9FN and Q900R. Also be aware that in PC mode while you get proper full chroma 4:4:4, color space is locked to the over saturated Native and can't do proper sRGB which BTW is more than 99% of all PC content. Bad Samsung, bad!
I just got the Q90R mainly for PC work/gaming. I am very disappointed with the TV in PC Input Mode. As soon as you enable HDR in Windows display settings, the screen goes quite dim and looses all the color. It also disables most of the TV's picture settings (such as color) so you can't even adjust the screen. I changed the input to "Game Console" and it at lease allows me to turn the "game enhancer" setting on in game mode now. But since I just this to view a lot of Text for work, I want to be able to use the Chroma 4:4:4. But this TV wont let me have the best of both worlds. I am glad I am not the only person experiencing this... As I did not see anyone mention this in reviews before buy it.

Has anyone found a solution or anything to get better PC HDR gaming while using the "PC input" mode?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Has anyone found a solution or anything to get better PC HDR gaming while using the "PC input" mode?
Nope, better to not use it. For HDR I use "Game Console", 10-bit YCbCr 4:2:2 output. For SDR I use "PC", 8-bit RGB Full output, HDR turned off in Windows.
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