2019 Samsung Q90R Owners Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 67 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1981 of 8124 Old 04-04-2019, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by fonz5000 View Post
Agreed. If there is no eARC I will have to pass. I have a full ATMOS setup, and I want to take advantage of the Apps on the tv but still get great sound. Or maybe I don't understand eARC.
You don't understand eARC.

Netflix and Amazon and Apple currently can send Atmos over DD+. So the built in apps on the TV would take the DD+ audio channel for those apps that support Atmos and stuff Atmos into DD+ and send it over legacy ARC to your audio setup. That's assuming it actually works for you since legacy ARC utilizes CEC for negotiation and your TV and Audio gear if they are different manufacturers won't always work... which is another reason why eARC kicks ass.

So why do people care about eARC?

If you want to connect your video equipment (not "apps") like a BD player, game console, etc., directly to the TV so that any/all advanced video features work and still pass the full HD audio back to the AVR then only eARC can do that. Additionally eARC negotiates over its own control channel so you don't rely on CEC to do the negotiation which means in theory no compatibility problems between manufacturers. Additionally eARC has mandatory lip sync correction which means that if you plug a source like a game console or BD player into the TV directly and then connect the TV to your AVR then not only does the HD audio pass back to your AVR but the audio and video should be perfectly synchronized without you having to futz around adjusting lip sync offset on the AVR.
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post #1982 of 8124 Old 04-04-2019, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Hawkmoon View Post
Yeah, it is odd. Sony has eArc, but they don't have VRR/Freesync. LG has "all of the above", but to stay in the 75" size range is much more expensive. Samsung has everything except eArc and DV (DV is not that big of deal for me). I really like my 75" Q9FN and reading all of you owners gush over the 90R, even those that came from a Q9FN is making me want to go that route.
From the cagey way that Samsung is poo pooing the feature the most likely explanation is that these TVs just don't have the hardware to support it for this model year.

99% of consumers don't understand it and out of the ones that do understand it maybe 25% have a use case where it matters (game console + AVR + 4K BD player for example).
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post #1983 of 8124 Old 04-04-2019, 03:28 PM
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This comparison right here is why I feel like I won’t pull the trigger on the Q90R. I’ve just spent too many years having bad black levels.
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post #1984 of 8124 Old 04-04-2019, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Slickman View Post
The brightness adjustment on these tvs seems different than other tvs I've owned. It almost acts more like a gamma adjustment or something. I settled on 0 to get a really punchy image but 1 looked pretty good too.

Yep, in 2018 Samsung changed the brightness setting algorithm and tied gamma into it, Making it nearly impossible to fix the balcn crush on those sets. I use the Panasonic Ub820 and it's on board settings to help the crush and shadow detail and works amazingly while maintaining deep blacks most of the time.
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post #1985 of 8124 Old 04-04-2019, 03:43 PM
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Definitely won the panel lottery, there's a light reflecting on the top middle of the screen.

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post #1986 of 8124 Old 04-04-2019, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post
You don't understand eARC.



Netflix and Amazon and Apple currently can send Atmos over DD+. So the built in apps on the TV would take the DD+ audio channel for those apps that support Atmos and stuff Atmos into DD+ and send it over legacy ARC to your audio setup. That's assuming it actually works for you since legacy ARC utilizes CEC for negotiation and your TV and Audio gear if they are different manufacturers won't always work... which is another reason why eARC kicks ass.



So why do people care about eARC?



If you want to connect your video equipment (not "apps") like a BD player, game console, etc., directly to the TV so that any/all advanced video features work and still pass the full HD audio back to the AVR then only eARC can do that. Additionally eARC negotiates over its own control channel so you don't rely on CEC to do the negotiation which means in theory no compatibility problems between manufacturers. Additionally eARC has mandatory lip sync correction which means that if you plug a source like a game console or BD player into the TV directly and then connect the TV to your AVR then not only does the HD audio pass back to your AVR but the audio and video should be perfectly synchronized without you having to futz around adjusting lip sync offset on the AVR.
Even though I had nothing to do with this back and forth, this was very educational. Thank you.
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post #1987 of 8124 Old 04-04-2019, 04:01 PM
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post #1988 of 8124 Old 04-04-2019, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post
Been shipping TV's for a while, I hear what you are saying. That is so common to order white glove and not get it. It is not really worth offering unless someone is disabled and can not help driver.
... or the TV weighs some 140 lbs... I unpacked and wall mounted a few 65 inch'er myself with no problem but 82? No way someone can do this alone without damaging the TV. There is also liability, if something gets damaged during unpacking then the liability is on the White Glover guys. Look at the posts two days ago from "Keithian" I really feel for him the whole story just was very unfortunate. There is a chance Samsung denies his claim blaming him for the damage on the TV, this would not be the case if he had ordered White Glove service.

@ Cleveland Plasma - why is it so common to order White Glove and not getting it?

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post #1989 of 8124 Old 04-04-2019, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by fonz5000 View Post
https://youtu.be/3ADEzhj6StM

This comparison right here is why I feel like I won’t pull the trigger on the Q90R. I’ve just spent too many years having bad black levels.
We're back on this again? This thing has already been dismissed as BS in this thread. The guy admits in the comments that he had Dynamic Black Equalizer turned on with the QLED. This feature purposely raises black levels to enhance shadow detail. And shadow detail by the way is inferior on the OLED throughout the entire video, which he never bothers to point out, so the feature is working as intended if you value shadow detail over black levels. Most people say the feature is crap, and say to leave it off at all times.

So the reviewer deliberately activates a feature on the QLED that sacrifices black levels for shadow detail, and then complains that black levels are higher than the OLED. This is reviewer malpractice. The only reason a reviewer would do this is to deliberately mislead.
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post #1990 of 8124 Old 04-04-2019, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by LongJon View Post
@sd13 , As someone who bought a Q90R I’m just mentioning in a Q90R thread after receiving one that was cracked, along with the many MANY mixed reviews out there right now (most of them being negative) that I didn’t feel spending $3700 on a 65 inch Q90 when I got a 2018 Q8 65 inch for just over $1,700 was worth it.. Seemed relevant to me. Maybe someone else out there would be interested in such a deal with that big of a price difference. Being a tech/TV guy myself, I can honestly say that I understand why these forums exist, but I can also say that in my honest opinion, I think most here are entirely too critical. It’s their right to be that way, of course but I doubt I’ll be back much until next years models come out and people like you are somewhat to blame. You put off that prick vibe. But I guess if I had to send back 8 TV’s in a calendar year or whatever it is you’ve had to do would make me sour too.

For the rest on here, It’s one thing to report a problem and to try and find a solution. That’s normal. But there are many on here that go on the hunt to try and find a problem with a perfectly good tv when it isn’t apparent at all.. It’s interesting. It puts off an extremely negative vibe in what has always been one of the most exciting moments of my life - Buying a new TV! I appreciate the guy who congratulated me on the deal I got today and I hope the rest of the Q90R owners get the best panels possible with the fewest problems.
Feeling is likewise and you definitely lost me there at "many mixed reviews". lol.
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post #1991 of 8124 Old 04-04-2019, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by StevieG View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by fonz5000 View Post
https://youtu.be/3ADEzhj6StM

This comparison right here is why I feel like I won’t pull the trigger on the Q90R. I’ve just spent too many years having bad black levels.
We're back on this again? This thing has already been dismissed as BS in this thread. The guy admits in the comments that he had Dynamic Black Equalizer turned on with the QLED. This feature purposely raises black levels to enhance shadow detail. And shadow detail by the way is inferior on the OLED throughout the entire video, which he never bothers to point out, so the feature is working as intended if you value shadow detail over black levels. Most people say the feature is crap, and say to leave it off at all times.

So the reviewer deliberately activates a feature on the QLED that sacrifices black levels for shadow detail, and then complains that black levels are higher than the OLED. This is reviewer malpractice. The only reason a reviewer would so this is to deliberately mislead.
Oh. My bad. I didn’t know that. It just popped up on my YouTube feed. I know there was another guy on YouTube just destroying the Q90R as well. Thanks. I would love it somebody that games could actually post some pics of dark game scenes with game mode on.
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post #1992 of 8124 Old 04-04-2019, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by fonz5000 View Post
Oh. My bad. I didn’t know that. It just popped up on my YouTube feed. I know there was another guy on YouTube just destroying the Q90R as well. Thanks. I would love it somebody that games could actually post some pics of dark game scenes with game mode on.
Nobody unbias and credible "destroyed" this tv. This is nonsense. Also plenty of dark game mode pictures on here right in front of you.
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post #1993 of 8124 Old 04-04-2019, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by fonz5000 View Post
Oh. My bad. I didn’t know that. It just popped up on my YouTube feed. I know there was another guy on YouTube just destroying the Q90R as well. Thanks. I would love it somebody that games could actually post some pics of dark game scenes with game mode on.
I think it's the same dude with multiple accounts. I'd ignore any reviews put up by any channel that has "quantum" in the name.
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post #1994 of 8124 Old 04-04-2019, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Akaglty View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by fonz5000 View Post
Oh. My bad. I didn’t know that. It just popped up on my YouTube feed. I know there was another guy on YouTube just destroying the Q90R as well. Thanks. I would love it somebody that games could actually post some pics of dark game scenes with game mode on.
I think it's the same dude with multiple accounts. I'd ignore any reviews put up by any channel that has "quantum" in the name.
I was thinking the same. Dude is really pathetic. The amount of videos and effort he puts into disparaging the Q90R is irrational. No professional reviewer would go to such length.
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post #1995 of 8124 Old 04-04-2019, 06:17 PM
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Game mode is perfectly fine on this set, and the blacks look nothing like they do on that OLED vs Q90R video. I also don't know if something is up with "QA's" set or what because on my set there is zero difference in local dimming whether game mode is on or off. I paused on many dark scenes looking for a difference and couldn't find any. The blacks are inky whether game mode is on or off.
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post #1996 of 8124 Old 04-04-2019, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Slickman View Post
Game mode is perfectly fine on this set, and the blacks look nothing like they do on that OLED vs Q90R video. I also don't know if something is up with "QA's" set or what because on my set there is zero difference in local dimming whether game mode is on or off. I paused on many dark scenes looking for a difference and couldn't find any. The blacks are inky whether game mode is on or off.
Told ya .

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post #1997 of 8124 Old 04-04-2019, 06:31 PM
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As a public service to all on AVS...

There have been a number of people posting nonsense videos here from a guy named "Quantum" on YouTube.

Do not put any stock in any of the various videos "Quantum" puts up on YouTube under his many "Quantum" names/aliases.

The guy is a loon and posts many, many, negative videos and conspiracy theories all over YouTube, etc. in an effort to get clicks - click-bait.

He also does the same thing on Amazon giving 1 star ratings - he gave the Q90R a 1 star rating; the LG C8 a 1 star rating; the Sony 900F a 1 star rating, etc.

Just consider the source when making educated purchasing decisions.
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TV: LG CX/GX; Samsung...?
Blu-ray: Panasonic UB820
AVR/Pre-pro: Marantz 8805/7705 or 8012, or Yamaha 5200 or 3080
Speakers: GE Triton One.R, or ML ElectroMotion ESL X
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post #1998 of 8124 Old 04-04-2019, 06:36 PM
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Nobody unbias and credible "destroyed" this tv. This is nonsense. Also plenty of dark game mode pictures on here right in front of you.
As someone who has owned both the 65" Q9FN and the Q90R, I'm interested in your feedback. I can get a verified, by me visually inspecting it, good panel Q9FN with full samsung warranty for just under $1800. I can get a Q90R for $2600 + tax(~$2790 all in) through Samsung EPP, or I can wait for further discounts on the Q90R. I'm not necessarily in a rush to buy but if I wait, the Q9FN will be gone so I have to wait 6+ months for a similar deal on the Q90R. 1. For a user who will use the set for 50% PC gaming with a custom loop w/ an RX Vega 64, 20% PS4 Pro gaming, 20% streamed content, and 10% 4K bluray, is the Q90R worth essentially $1000 more if I buy today. 2. If it isn't worth $1000 more, is the Q90R enough of an improvement on a good Q9FN worth waiting for a better deal and losing the Q9FN for now.

I try to be a 5 year owner of any set that I buy(unless I can upgrade for extremely minimal cost). Coming from a Panasonic plasma with some slight burn in has left me somewhat apprehensive towards the idea of OLED. I say that considering 4 of the 7 sets, including monitors, that I have were sets I bought at auction with power issues but great panels and have repaired myself. No such luck with the Q9FN as all the returned sets I have found had god-damned panel issues.
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post #1999 of 8124 Old 04-04-2019, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by StevieG View Post
We're back on this again? This thing has already been dismissed as BS in this thread. The guy admits in the comments that he had Dynamic Black Equalizer turned on with the QLED. This feature purposely raises black levels to enhance shadow detail. And shadow detail by the way is inferior on the OLED throughout the entire video, which he never bothers to point out, so the feature is working as intended if you value shadow detail over black levels. Most people say the feature is crap, and say to leave it off at all times.

So the reviewer deliberately activates a feature on the QLED that sacrifices black levels for shadow detail, and then complains that black levels are higher than the OLED. This is reviewer malpractice. The only reason a reviewer would do this is to deliberately mislead.


He wasn't trying to deliberately mislead, I just don't think he realized what was going or realzed that the setting would actually make blacks much worse. Ive known him for a couple of years now and he was basically just having fun being able to make his own videos. btw, he is actually a filmmaker and created the documentary "Into the Cave of Wonders", which was 1 of the 1st 4k offerings on Amazon and is still there I think. Another AVS member later graded that video in hdr which looked absolutely awesome. he then sold the footage to Sony who then turned around and used a few of the hdr clips as demos at best buy for a few months back in 2017. it's an absolute shame that in the end Sony bought it, used a few clips, then buried it in their vault. I got a few private sneak peak clips and it was flooring how it looked. to this day, is still some of the most Jaw dropping footage I've ever seen, and looked better than probably any documentary I've seen in hdr so far, including Planet Earth 2.


edit: here's the trailer from the film he made a few years back.


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82Q90R*75Q9FN(RIP)*55C8OLED*Galaxy Note10+*Ub820 fed into Oppo 203*XB1X*4k DenonX4200

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post #2000 of 8124 Old 04-04-2019, 06:47 PM
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As a public service to all on AVS...

There have been a number of people posting nonsense videos here from a guy named "Quantum" on YouTube.

Do not put any stock in any of the various videos "Quantum" puts up on YouTube under his many "Quantum" names/aliases.

The guy is a loon and posts many, many, negative videos and conspiracy theories all over YouTube, etc. in an effort to get clicks - click-bait.

He also does the same thing on Amazon giving 1 star ratings - he gave the Q90R a 1 star rating; the LG C8 a 1 star rating; the Sony 900F a 1 star rating, etc.

Just consider the source when making educated purchasing decisions.
Yeah, I'm relatively new here and made my first post the other day wondering about Canadian panels... so while I try to be excrutiatingly patient waiting for the 75" Q90R to be available in Canada (anyone know a reasonable timeline?), I just wanted to speak up and say despite my username, I have NOTHING to do with that misinformative YouTuber. This has been my handle on-line for video games and such, so I'm just putting this out there right now to not discredit myself if anyone looks up my post history in the distant future. Ha!

As always, I absolutely appreciate the constant comments and threads on here. It's been 9 years since I'm updating since a 2010 Samsung for what was then a higher end 46", and I just can't wait another full year for an officially certified HDMI 2.1 hardware ported OCB 4K TV, and all the accurate information and pictures on here keeps the hype alive to finally make my purchase once it is available!
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post #2001 of 8124 Old 04-04-2019, 06:47 PM
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I asked this earlier but is anyone having issues with their tv detecting their Comcast cable box, or any other input device? It detects my Xbox and sound bar just fine. After saying that it’s not detected, I get a message saying that comcast supports RF remote, so I go through the whole process of pairing it and once that is done, it recognizes it and puts the xfinity logo in my home hub. But then if I switch inputs, and then go back to cable tv, I get the same message saying Comcast supports RF remote and xfinity logo disappears. I know I can just manually add the input to my home hub and add the generic cable tv logo but it bugs the crap out of me that it’s not working. I’ve spent hours trying to find a work around. Anyone??Click image for larger version

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post #2002 of 8124 Old 04-04-2019, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by JJameson View Post
As someone who has owned both the 65" Q9FN and the Q90R, I'm interested in your feedback. I can get a verified, by me visually inspecting it, good panel Q9FN with full samsung warranty for just under $1800. I can get a Q90R for $2600 + tax(~$2790 all in) through Samsung EPP, or I can wait for further discounts on the Q90R. I'm not necessarily in a rush to buy but if I wait, the Q9FN will be gone so I have to wait 6+ months for a similar deal on the Q90R. 1. For a user who will use the set for 50% PC gaming with a custom loop w/ an RX Vega 64, 20% PS4 Pro gaming, 20% streamed content, and 10% 4K bluray, is the Q90R worth essentially $1000 more if I buy today. 2. If it isn't worth $1000 more, is the Q90R enough of an improvement on a good Q9FN worth waiting for a better deal and losing the Q9FN for now.



I try to be a 5 year owner of any set that I buy(unless I can upgrade for extremely minimal cost). Coming from a Panasonic plasma with some slight burn in has left me somewhat apprehensive towards the idea of OLED. I say that considering 4 of the 7 sets, including monitors, that I have were sets I bought at auction with power issues but great panels and have repaired myself. No such luck with the Q9FN as all the returned sets I have found had god-damned panel issues.
I wish I could answer your pc mode gaming question, but I'm not a PC gamer. As far as price/performance goes I cannot answer that because it's all relative to how much is the upgrade worth to you, and you have to take into consideration how sensitive you are to it's flaws. To me it was well worth the upgrade. No dse, no black crush, no broken game mode, no sdr undersaturation, better skin tones, way better viewing angles, better upscaling, made it a no brainer.

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post #2003 of 8124 Old 04-04-2019, 06:50 PM
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I think it's the same dude with multiple accounts. I'd ignore any reviews put up by any channel that has "quantum" in the name.
as I have pointed out above, it's definitely not the same guy. you can clearly tell by the voice that the above video, that he is not even from North America. (edit, I could be wrong but I always thought he was in Europe lol)

75Q9FN* Oppo 203/UB820*S10+*DenonX4200

82Q90R*75Q9FN(RIP)*55C8OLED*Galaxy Note10+*Ub820 fed into Oppo 203*XB1X*4k DenonX4200

MASTER LIST OF HDR CONTENT THREAD HERE, UPDATED OFTEN

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I had John Archer inquire to Samsung about the protective film issue and this is what his Samsung contacts told him.

75Q9FN* Oppo 203/UB820*S10+*DenonX4200

82Q90R*75Q9FN(RIP)*55C8OLED*Galaxy Note10+*Ub820 fed into Oppo 203*XB1X*4k DenonX4200

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post #2005 of 8124 Old 04-04-2019, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by StevieG View Post
We're back on this again? This thing has already been dismissed as BS in this thread. The guy admits in the comments that he had Dynamic Black Equalizer turned on with the QLED. This feature purposely raises black levels to enhance shadow detail. And shadow detail by the way is inferior on the OLED throughout the entire video, which he never bothers to point out, so the feature is working as intended if you value shadow detail over black levels. Most people say the feature is crap, and say to leave it off at all times.

So the reviewer deliberately activates a feature on the QLED that sacrifices black levels for shadow detail, and then complains that black levels are higher than the OLED. This is reviewer malpractice. The only reason a reviewer would do this is to deliberately mislead.
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Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
He wasn't trying to deliberately mislead, I just don't think he realized what was going or realzed that the setting would actually make blacks much worse. Ive known him for a couple of years now and he was basically just having fun being able to make his own videos. btw, he is actually a filmmaker and created the documentary "Into the Cave of Wonders", which was 1 of the 1st 4k offerings on Amazon and is still there I think. Another AVS member later graded that video in hdr which looked absolutely awesome. he then sold the footage to Sony who then turned around and used a few of the hdr clips as demos at best buy for a few months back in 2017. it's an absolute shame that in the end Sony bought it, used a few clips, then buried it in their vault. I got a few private sneak peak clips and it was flooring how it looked. to this day, is still some of the most Jaw dropping footage I've ever seen, and looked better than probably any documentary I've seen in hdr so far, including Planet Earth 2.
Also, there is something definitely wrong with the local dimming on his particular panel. Maybe cause it's a European 55", or maybe cause of older firmware. But there definitely is a bug on his set when he's toggling local dimming between medium and high, his set washes out completely. Mine definitely does not behave like that. Maybe this bug also affects his game mode.

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post #2006 of 8124 Old 04-04-2019, 07:01 PM
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I noticed my first local dimming fluctuation. In the beginning of Pet Semetary a little over 7 minutes in Gage's mom opened his door and the light from the hallway went into the room. At this moment the black lightened up significantly for a second. I switched from local dimming high to standard and the fluctuation went away. This was in SDR by the way.

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post #2007 of 8124 Old 04-04-2019, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
He wasn't trying to deliberately mislead, I just don't think he realized what was going or realzed that the setting would actually make blacks much worse. Ive known him for a couple of years now and he was basically just having fun being able to make his own videos. btw, he is actually a filmmaker and created the documentary "Into the Cave of Wonders", which was 1 of the 1st 4k offerings on Amazon and is still there I think. Another AVS member later graded that video in hdr which looked absolutely awesome. he then sold the footage to Sony who then turned around and used a few of the hdr clips as demos at best buy for a few months back in 2017. it's an absolute shame that in the end Sony bought it, used a few clips, then buried it in their vault. I got a few private sneak peak clips and it was flooring how it looked. to this day, is still some of the most Jaw dropping footage I've ever seen, and looked better than probably any documentary I've seen in hdr so far, including Planet Earth 2.
The bigger problem is how fervently he calls out reviewers for their BS while also spewing a decent amount himself. He's not entirely wrong. Most reviewers in general are pretty terrible at their job. I think most do the best they can but end up seeing their opinion as some sort of actual objective truth. Few do a good job of properly explaining their metrics, how their testing methodologies may differ from others, why they have a specific approach. Their worst offenses usually come in the form of recommendations based on price and their lack of continuous updates as pricing changes. It's simply not easy to measure value when you don't have to pay for a set out of your own pocket in the first place. It's not a good idea to call out someone publicly while also being guilty of the same. If he was just wrong about a setting, that's fine. That happens to everyone. Don't call everyone else liars and fools because they have a different finding than you. Test, test, test some more until opinion is no longer relevant.
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post #2008 of 8124 Old 04-04-2019, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
I had John Archer inquire to Samsung about the protective film issue and this is what his Samsung contacts told him.

75Q9FN* Oppo 203/UB820*S10+*DenonX4200
Oh boy. Filmgate in full effect. Ridiculous how some sets have no pull tab.

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post #2009 of 8124 Old 04-04-2019, 07:07 PM
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I wish I could answer your pc mode gaming question, but I'm not a PC gamer. As far as price/performance goes I cannot answer that because it's all relative to how much is the upgrade worth to you, and you have to take into consideration how sensitive you are to it's flaws. To me it was well worth the upgrade. No dse, no black crush, no broken game mode, no sdr undersaturation, better skin tones, way better viewing angles, better upscaling, made it a no brainer.

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Fair enough. I appreciate that feedback. It definitely makes me want to wait for the Q90R. That being said, I don't remember what the issue with the game mode was on the Q9FN. It has been a while since I saw what the issue was and I can't seem to find it through searching the Q9FN forums page by page. Can you explain the difference between the Q9FN and Q90R's game mode?
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post #2010 of 8124 Old 04-04-2019, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
He wasn't trying to deliberately mislead, I just don't think he realized what was going or realzed that the setting would actually make blacks much worse. Ive known him for a couple of years now and he was basically just having fun being able to make his own videos...

Not to shoot you, as you are just the messenger...

But your story might carry more weight if he also wasn't out just bashing the top TVs by giving them all 1 star ratings out of 5 on review sites as well.

OK, enough of that...

Shopping List:
TV: LG CX/GX; Samsung...?
Blu-ray: Panasonic UB820
AVR/Pre-pro: Marantz 8805/7705 or 8012, or Yamaha 5200 or 3080
Speakers: GE Triton One.R, or ML ElectroMotion ESL X
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