Samsung Q90 QLED Hands-On & Review - Page 5 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #121 of 192 Old 03-09-2019, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by bigolyt View Post

How does the Q90R compare to the Q9FN? I can get them both through my work discount for $2599.
From early reports it seems better but there is still a panel lottery going on it seems. Why would you want an older model when you can get the newer one for the same price? I would go for the q900 if you can swing it and get a discount on that as well. Just a thought.

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post #122 of 192 Old 03-09-2019, 03:10 PM
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How does the Q90R compare to the Q9FN? I can get them both through my work discount for $2599.
Get the Q90R. Early review comments say it is better.

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post #123 of 192 Old 03-09-2019, 03:16 PM
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There are reports that Samsung has succeeded in doing that very thing.
Yup, but I'll maintain a healthy sense of skepticism until we've heard more user reports and seen the results of this year's crop of shoot-outs.

I was a big fan of FALD when I had my P70 but the backlight dimming artifacts finally got to be too much for me to take.

If Samsung has succeeded to deliver that level of effective contrast without distracting backlight dimming artifacts (and without worse-than-WOLED DSE), I could be ready to 'switch camps' (awaiting confirmation that Dolby Vision really adds nothing for a display that pumps out ~1500 Nits).
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post #124 of 192 Old 03-09-2019, 03:52 PM
 
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I suppose you could be right but here’s the thing. I only watch one tv on my wall at a time. So to me my q9 looks really flipping good. Way better than my zt60 it replaced. Makes my epson 5040 look like garbage. So much in fact we find ourselves watching movies on the 75 instead of the 120.


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You make a great point. I remember bad PQ back to the 1960s and in the 80s those horrible rear projection big screens serving 480i. So anything today looks decent on it's own without side by side comarison
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post #125 of 192 Old 03-09-2019, 04:25 PM
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I suppose my question is this: If given the choice between getting a 75Q900RB and an 82Q90R, which would you choose? Found out I qualify for the Samsung EPP program and those would be my top two choices. Smaller 8k vs. larger 4k.

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post #126 of 192 Old 03-09-2019, 04:31 PM
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I suppose my question is this: If given the choice between getting a 75Q900RB and an 82Q90R, which would you choose? Found out I qualify for the Samsung EPP program and those would be my top two choices. Smaller 8k vs. larger 4k.
Oh man, tough choice. I would go for the 8K 75". But only because my room size comes into play. And just maybe it would provide some longer term future proofing...?

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post #127 of 192 Old 03-09-2019, 04:47 PM
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I suppose my question is this: If given the choice between getting a 75Q900RB and an 82Q90R, which would you choose? Found out I qualify for the Samsung EPP program and those would be my top two choices. Smaller 8k vs. larger 4k.
75Q900RB. 8K LCD is the sharpest, most detailed and brightest LCD I've seen. 8K is the future....
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post #128 of 192 Old 03-09-2019, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Serious question... do you know much about what goes on in a "screen assembly building" Or is this truly a guess (i.e. no actual insight)? Especially in the context of thinking "all manufacturers would do that" I think it's important to avoid the "I read it somewhere" effect that can happen when folks read a statement like that.

Because if it's informed by experience, great. Indeed, tell me more.

But if it's a guess (and you do say it is that) and you have no actual idea if it's even possible to do what you suggest, then it's not all that helpful. Namely, can you really test a TV series of screens before actual assembly, connection to power supply, etc? I wish I knew the answer.

Full disclosure: I do not know or have the answer. I have not visited a TV factory.

I do not know about pre assembly parts inspection, but I do know that at their assembly plant in Mexico they are on a very tight schedule for putting them together. I don't remember the exact number, but it's something on the level of 1 television goes from parts bin to full assembly somewhere on the order of every 50 seconds or so.

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post #129 of 192 Old 03-09-2019, 06:08 PM
 
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Originally Posted by New_to_4K View Post
75Q900RB. 8K LCD is the sharpest, most detailed and brightest LCD I've seen. 8K is the future....
16K is the future..just wait 4-5 years you'll be saying that. I still remember in 2014 people telling you 4k is the future.
People always say when a new resolution is launching that it is the future.The part that they leave out is that's it's the future for a very short while, until the next thing hits. Think about it, Hdmi 2.1 already has the provision to support 10k.

Is there one country in the world except japan where native 8k content is available? NHK in japan is now broadcasting in 8k..but outside of that..where is 8k? No 8k blu ray, no 8k video streaming service, there needs to be at least some source. Merely watching upscaled content on 8k defeats the purpose of buying a super expensive 8k tv, better to buy a great performing 4k tv. To me personally, there will have to some native 8k source, else im not buying.
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post #130 of 192 Old 03-09-2019, 06:43 PM
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I do not know about pre assembly parts inspection, but I do know that at their assembly plant in Mexico they are on a very tight schedule for putting them together. I don't remember the exact number, but it's something on the level of 1 television goes from parts bin to full assembly somewhere on the order of every 50 seconds or so.
There is no possible way that this is true.
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post #131 of 192 Old 03-09-2019, 06:56 PM
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There is no possible way that this is true.

Believe it or not this is the reality at the facility in Tijuana.

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post #132 of 192 Old 03-09-2019, 07:05 PM
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I don’t know why anyone would waste their money on an 8K set at this point. These sets are at minimum 5 years ahead of their time and when 8K really does matter they will be long obsolete. We barely have enough content to make 4K sets worth the investment. Lol

Actually, when you think about it HDR was the biggest reason to upgrade to a 4K set anyway.

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post #133 of 192 Old 03-09-2019, 07:06 PM
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Believe it or not this is the reality at the facility in Tijuana.
I have personally participated in audits of this facility in TJ and I can tell you that it is not true. Granted it was for products related to my company;s products and not for the lines dedicated to Samsung TVs, but I thoroughly understand the process that takes place there and have walked the floors where those TVs are assembled.
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post #134 of 192 Old 03-09-2019, 07:21 PM
 
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Manufacturing facilities are off bounds and are not open to you unless you're a company employee or a (non employee) insider having ties to the company. This is not just true of tv facilities, but with speaker manufacturing facilities. Some manufacturers would have a reception or press room in the outer of the factory premises where they would address questions from reporters of third party technical publications but beyond that point, the reporter won't be allowed inside of the assembly facility or the packaging facility in the building, those areas would say 'company personnel only'. I say this as i know a reputed audio tech journalist who made a visit to B&W's speaker manufacturing facility, he wasn't allowed into the section where the driver assembly happpens.
So what happens inside a samsung tv facility is only guesswork on the part of someone who isn't a company employee or insider.
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post #135 of 192 Old 03-09-2019, 07:29 PM
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I have personally participated in audits of this facility in TJ and I can tell you that it is not true. Granted it was for products related to my company;s products and not for the lines dedicated to Samsung TVs, but I thoroughly understand the process that takes place there and have walked the floors where those TVs are assembled.

That figure is probably close to 2 years out of date at this point but came from a conversation with someone who works for Samsung that I trust implicitly upon their return from the same building that you visited. The only reason I remember it at all this point is that it was a crazy fast yet very specific number of seconds somewhere just south of 1 minute.



They could of course been totally talking out of their ass but I personally have no reason to believe that is the case. Every other piece of info I have received in the past has in fact turned out to be the real deal.

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post #136 of 192 Old 03-09-2019, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Menarini View Post
Manufacturing facilities are off bounds and are not open to you unless you're a company employee or a (non employee) insider having ties to the company. This is not just true of tv facilities, but with speaker manufacturing facilities. Some manufacturers would have a reception or press room in the outer of the factory premises where they would address questions from reporters of third party technical publications but beyond that point, the reporter won't be allowed inside of the assembly facility or the packaging facility in the building, those areas would say 'company personnel only'. I say this as i know a reputed audio tech journalist who made a visit to B&W's speaker manufacturing facility, he wasn't allowed into the section where the driver assembly happpens.
So what happens inside a samsung tv facility is only guesswork on the part of someone who isn't a company employee or insider.
If you're referring to my post, I think I was pretty clear that I wasn't simply a visitor and I'm not a Samsung employee. My company does business there, and part of my job requires me to be there too.
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post #137 of 192 Old 03-09-2019, 07:35 PM
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I don’t know why anyone would waste their money on an 8K set at this point. These sets are at minimum 5 years ahead of their time and when 8K really does matter they will be long obsolete. We barely have enough content to make 4K sets worth the investment. Lol

Actually, when you think about it HDR was the biggest reason to upgrade to a 4K set anyway.

8K doesn't mean anything to me personally, yet I am considering a 900R for this year because I do care about the higher lumen output over the Q90. I'm not 100% sold until I have verified reports of their performance from owners in the wild but this is the way I am leaning ATM.
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post #138 of 192 Old 03-09-2019, 07:40 PM
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That figure is probably close to 2 years out of date at this point but came from a conversation with someone who works for Samsung that I trust implicitly upon their return from the same building that you visited. The only reason I remember it at all this point is that it was a crazy fast yet very specific number of seconds somewhere just south of 1 minute.



They could of course been totally talking out of their ass but I personally have no reason to believe that is the case. Every other piece of info I have received in the past has in fact turned out to be the real deal.
But think about it logically for a second. The panel comes from Korea. The power supply and other components (and there are several) mostly come from China. The plastic and metal casings are molded and framed at a nearby separate facility in Mexico. There is zero automation. It's all done by hand. The only thing automated in this factory is pick and place pcb work. There is no way even a group of highly trained line operators are going to be able to put all that stuff together (plug, solder, test) in less than a minute. Even a machine couldn't do that.
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post #139 of 192 Old 03-09-2019, 07:42 PM
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That figure is probably close to 2 years out of date at this point but came from a conversation with someone who works for Samsung that I trust implicitly upon their return from the same building that you visited. The only reason I remember it at all this point is that it was a crazy fast yet very specific number of seconds somewhere just south of 1 minute.



They could of course been totally talking out of their ass but I personally have no reason to believe that is the case. Every other piece of info I have received in the past has in fact turned out to be the real deal.
Might not be so far off...1 every minute 24 hours a day for 1 year would be 525,600 tv's


"TVs based on OLED display technology still represent a fairly small part of the overall TV market that runs at 220+ million units per year. However, OLED TVs are quickly conquering the high-end segment and LG.Display is now preparing a move into the mid-range segment.

"LG.Display is the sole manufacturer of OLED TV panels in the world and is currently supplying OLED panels to LG, Sony, Panasonic, Philips, Loewe, and others. The company today announced that global sales of OLED TV panels more than doubled to 1.3 million in the first half of 2018 compared to 0.6 million units in the first half of 2017.

https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.ph...&id=1534497639

So it would take 2+ of those factories pumping out Oleds at the same rate. LGD put out more than 1 Oled every 30 seconds...

That's a lot of tv's...fast

But we are sort of off topic, although it's interesting...

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post #140 of 192 Old 03-09-2019, 07:53 PM
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Might not be so far off...1 every minute 24 hours a day for 1 year would be 525,600 tv's


"TVs based on OLED display technology still represent a fairly small part of the overall TV market that runs at 220+ million units per year. However, OLED TVs are quickly conquering the high-end segment and LG.Display is now preparing a move into the mid-range segment.

"LG.Display is the sole manufacturer of OLED TV panels in the world and is currently supplying OLED panels to LG, Sony, Panasonic, Philips, Loewe, and others. The company today announced that global sales of OLED TV panels more than doubled to 1.3 million in the first half of 2018 compared to 0.6 million units in the first half of 2017.

https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.ph...&id=1534497639

So it would take 2+ of those factories pumping out Oleds at the same rate.

That's a lot of tv's...

But we are sort of off topic, although it's interesting...
OK, I think I may understand where the confusion is coming from. First, your 525,600 figure accounts for the output of just a single line. And it's less than that because, as I've said, assembly takes longer than 1 minute. There are multiple lines at these facilities that work in parallel.

Now where this one minute figure might come from is that it could be possible that the facility itself outputs a fully assembled TV every minute during its peak operation time. Of this, I have no idea. But, even if true, that's a far cry from saying that a panel and set of components and casings for these TVs take less than a minute to put together.
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post #141 of 192 Old 03-09-2019, 07:55 PM
 
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But think about it logically for a second. The panel comes from Korea. The power supply and other components (and there are several) mostly come from China. The plastic and metal casings are molded and framed at a nearby separate facility in Mexico. There is zero automation. It's all done by hand. The only thing automated in this factory is pick and place pcb work. There is no way even a group of highly trained line operators are going to be able to put all that stuff together (plug, solder, test) in less than a minute. Even a machine couldn't do that.
oled panels come from korea (but once lg has their china plant set up, oled panels are going to come from there too). lcd panels if it's a samsung in house manufactured panel, will ship from south korea. third party panels, which all sony lcd's use, and some samsung lcd's use are from AU Optronics (mostly) or innolux, both of which are taiwanese companies.
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post #142 of 192 Old 03-09-2019, 08:11 PM
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But think about it logically for a second. The panel comes from Korea. The power supply and other components (and there are several) mostly come from China. The plastic and metal casings are molded and framed at a nearby separate facility in Mexico. There is zero automation. It's all done by hand. The only thing automated in this factory is pick and place pcb work. There is no way even a group of highly trained line operators are going to be able to put all that stuff together (plug, solder, test) in less than a minute. Even a machine couldn't do that.

That also gibes with what I have been told. It was explained to me in broad strokes how most of the parts are manufactured at other locations around the world and shipped to Tijuana for final assembly (btw not all the panels come from Korea). I was given some rather boring breakdown on the economics of why they do it this way (easy access to the US yet way lower labor costs). It was explained to me that other TV companies do the same and for the same reason (I think it was the LG plant that is supposed to be fairly close to the Samsung plant, but I'm not 100% on that). Finally I was also told that they are assembled by hand after I specifically asked if the lines are automated in order to achieve such stupid fast assembly times. Of course I was skeptical, and frankly a small part in the back of my mind still is as I can't completely wrap my head around anyone working that fast, but it is what it is and that's the figure I was given.


It's been years since I took a display apart, but I'm not sure there's much in the way of things like solder work being done during assembly. If memory serves me correctly most of the components in these TV's are pretty much plug and play. Basically a power supply, a couple PCB's, and a couple ribbon cables running from one component to another, plus a boatload of machine screws holding the boards in place.

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post #143 of 192 Old 03-09-2019, 08:12 PM
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OK, I think I may understand where the confusion is coming from. First, your 525,600 figure accounts for the output of just a single line. And it's less than that because, as I've said, assembly takes longer than 1 minute. There are multiple lines at these facilities that work in parallel.

Now where this one minute figure might come from is that it could be possible that the facility itself outputs a fully assembled TV every minute during its peak operation time. Of this, I have no idea. But, even if true, that's a far cry from saying that a panel and set of components and casings for these TVs take less than a minute to put together.
Well, I made one mistake with my math...LGD put those out in the first half...6 months not 1 year...meaning they made more than 1 TV every 15 seconds.

Still off topic...sorry folks

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post #144 of 192 Old 03-09-2019, 08:15 PM
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But we are sort of off topic, although it's interesting...

I agree, and I was only putting it out there because it was a tidbit of info kind of in line with a question that Mark was specifically asking. I'm happy to stop derailing the thread now and let everyone get back to the discussion of the Q90 specifically.

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post #145 of 192 Old 03-09-2019, 08:23 PM
 
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Well, I made one mistake with my math...LGD put those out in the first half...6 months not 1 year...meaning they made more than 1 TV every 15 seconds.

Still off topic...sorry folks
You mean the oled panel not tv, lgd only manufactures and supplies panels to vendors. the rate at which they manufacture also has to do with demand and supply, you cannot assume they're constantly putting out panels 24 hours a day for an entire year. Currently their facilities are in korea only, when their chinese plant is up and running (1 or 2 years maybe), they'll be able to ramp up overall production and divide the workload better.
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You mean the oled panel not tv, lgd only manufactures and supplies panels to vendors. the rate at which they manufacture also has to do with demand and supply, you cannot assume they're constantly putting out panels 24 hours a day for an entire year. Currently their facilities are in korea only, when their chinese plant is up and running (1 or 2 years maybe), they'll be able to ramp up overall production and divide the workload better.
True. I wonder if there will be buyers for all these tv's going forward. Seems like the world would hit a saturation point. Both my Oled and LED/LCD are trooping along just fine...but I guess I will need an 8K soon cause...8K. Disc manufacturers better get on the stick quick...start churning out 8K movies...and streaming services too. Create the needed demand...

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^Interview that Teoh did with BDA(blu ray disc association) at CES this year revealed that 8k blu ray spec is not even in planning stages and they are only concentrating on expanding 4k blu ray sales. Streaming services will need to stop being greedy with bandwidths, currently the 4k that netflix offers has a low compressed bitrate of a little over 15 mbps. For 8k that looks better than 4k streaming you'd need streaming that allows way higher bitrates. (Whether the extra 8k resolution pixel detail is discernible over 4k at 'normal' viewing distances is another debate).
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post #148 of 192 Old 03-09-2019, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Menarini View Post
^Interview that Teoh did with BDA(blu ray disc association) at CES this year revealed that 8k blu ray spec is not even in planning stages and they are only concentrating on expanding 4k blu ray sales. Streaming services will need to stop being greedy with bandwidths, currently the 4k that netflix offers has a low compressed bitrate of a little over 15 mbps. For 8k that looks better than 4k streaming you'd need streaming that allows way higher bitrates. (Whether the extra 8k resolution pixel detail is discernible over 4k at 'normal' viewing distances is another debate).
Need better movies and lower 4K disc pricing. Hardly any one I know is willing to spend the $$ on 4K over bluray. Hell, most people I know buy DVD's even though their tv's are 4K at this point. Content over image is what they tell me is important. I say both are important, as do most members here. But we make up a very small slice of the viewing public.

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post #149 of 192 Old 03-09-2019, 09:39 PM
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I suppose my question is this: If given the choice between getting a 75Q900RB and an 82Q90R, which would you choose? Found out I qualify for the Samsung EPP program and those would be my top two choices. Smaller 8k vs. larger 4k.
I would probably go 82Q90RB, but we will have to wait for solid reviews on the 900RB first, just in case.......
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post #150 of 192 Old 03-10-2019, 04:55 AM
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Thanks for the review Mark. i am wondering if you have any insight on when the 75" version will be available. I do not doubt the TV is excellent and the improvements are markedly better than last year's Q9FN but what is disappointing is Samsung is trailing behind the competitors in future proofing the investment that one makes in such a purchase. Dropping down $5000 is not possible every year just because HDMI 2.1 is not fully implemented or DV is not available.

In your own opinion do you think the TV will be upgradable via firmware to support the missing features or is it a hardware thing.

Thanks

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