2019 Samsung Q70R QLED Owner's Thread - Page 31 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #901 of 1219 Old 12-08-2019, 04:27 PM
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I have the 82” and HW-Q7CR Soundbar both from Costco.

Last week I was able to get Dolby Atmos working via HMDI ARC, now the TV won’t recognize HDMI to the soundbar no matter what I do.

I was able to get it watching Jack Ryan Amazon Prime via 4K Fire Stick last week. Today I tried with Apple TV 4K and still no Dolby Atmos.

The only sound sources in the TV Sound Output are TV speakers, Soundbar Q7CR (WiFi), Optical, Bluetooth list.

Last week there was HDMI ARC, now I can’t activate it. Optical cable is not enough bandwidth for Atmos. Not sure if WiFi connect would be.

Any help?
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post #902 of 1219 Old 12-08-2019, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Sanford Mehr View Post
Where did you purchase it from? I just feel a bit uneasy about eBay.
Through Greentoe website. Got a good price. The company was named something like Electronice. It was new in the box.
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post #903 of 1219 Old 12-08-2019, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by decon1 View Post
I have the 82” and HW-Q7CR Soundbar both from Costco.

Last week I was able to get Dolby Atmos working via HMDI ARC, now the TV won’t recognize HDMI to the soundbar no matter what I do.

I was able to get it watching Jack Ryan Amazon Prime via 4K Fire Stick last week. Today I tried with Apple TV 4K and still no Dolby Atmos.

The only sound sources in the TV Sound Output are TV speakers, Soundbar Q7CR (WiFi), Optical, Bluetooth list.

Last week there was HDMI ARC, now I can’t activate it. Optical cable is not enough bandwidth for Atmos. Not sure if WiFi connect would be.

Any help?
Just curious: why would you watch Amazon Prime of Roku or Fire Stick rather than the built in Amazon Prim on the Samsung Hub? I am pretty happy with the responsiveness of the Hub when it comes to navigation and making changes.
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post #904 of 1219 Old 12-08-2019, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Nighthog View Post
I found a workaround for my 2018 Model to select [Game Console] for my PC input and then send the TV a YCbBr 4:2:0 signal from my AMD graphics. There is a bug where is sends 4:4:4 Chroma with that and the TV accepts it and all works better thinking your PC is a Console and allows you to select MOVIE mode and all other settings are adjustable that are otherwise locked for PC source.
As You have Nvidia I'm unsure if you will get 4:4:4 Chroma but you could try.
I almost can't believe it, but this worked. I didn't change anything on the PC side at all. Just told the TV that it's a "Game Console". I still have 4:4:4, I can use 24Hz without it zooming, and since it's not in Game Mode, I also don't get the
. This conveniently serves as a way for me to know the TV isn't performing any lag-inducing processing, also.

Three cheers for completely unintended results!
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post #905 of 1219 Old 12-09-2019, 04:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Colmino View Post
I almost can't believe it, but this worked. I didn't change anything on the PC side at all. Just told the TV that it's a "Game Console". I still have 4:4:4, I can use 24Hz without it zooming, and since it's not in Game Mode, I also don't get the hideous artifacts that Samsung TVs produce whenever they're not in PC mode. This conveniently serves as a way for me to know the TV isn't performing any lag-inducing processing, also.

Three cheers for completely unintended results!

Great to hear that it works for the 2019 Models as well even with Nvidia with Game Console accepting 4:4:4 Chroma.



I've read about the HDMI Overscan being reported to Samsung support and forwarded to the technicians to look into so I hope they fix the issue for next update. A bug report has been issues by a few people around the internet. I hope they don't break anything else when if they fix it.
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post #906 of 1219 Old 12-09-2019, 05:30 AM
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Originally Posted by elasticmedia View Post
Just curious: why would you watch Amazon Prime of Roku or Fire Stick rather than the built in Amazon Prim on the Samsung Hub? I am pretty happy with the responsiveness of the Hub when it comes to navigation and making changes.
From what I read, you get a better picture via external device over the built in Hub.
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post #907 of 1219 Old 12-09-2019, 05:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Nighthog View Post
I've read about the HDMI Overscan being reported to Samsung support and forwarded to the technicians to look into so I hope they fix the issue for next update. A bug report has been issues by a few people around the internet. I hope they don't break anything else when if they fix it.
I have Samsung's "ear" on this issue, as it were. Someone knowledgeable from Samsung is supposed to be getting in touch with me. And it's good that they will, because even though the problem is indeed fixed to the extent that I previously suggested, there remains one issue.

First I should mention that when I had the port labeled as "Game Console", every refresh rate setting caused the video to exhibit crosshatch dithering. It's a very annoying visual anomaly where every other pixel, both horizontally and vertically), assumes a slightly brighter / slightly darker pattern. I had thought at first that the Q70R didn't suffer from it, but I was wrong; it appears whenever the display is accepting and displaying HDR, for example, and this also helps explain why every single Samsung at the local Best Buy exhibits this dithering.

Fortunately, I hit upon another bug with this TV. I renamed the port back to "PC". For reasons only Samsung's TV software engineers could really answer, I still don't get the zooming bug; it's as though temporarily labeling the port as "Game Console" permanently set a flag that the TV was needing all along. So now my situation is this:

When using 29, 30, 59 or 60 Hz (and no HDR), I get a "clean"* image with no zooming. When using 23, 24, 25 or 50 Hz (and/or HDR), I get crosshatch dithering, but still no zooming. However, because I had to rename the port back to "PC" to achieve this final result, I again lost the ability to set Picture Mode to "Movie".

This may be the best this TV can manage. But I'm going to hold onto some hope that when I bring the dithering issue to Samsung's attention, they will in fact have some way of disabling it. After all, I can display 4K60 4:4:4 without having to deal with it.

Now, to clarify what I mean by "clean" in quotes: No Samsung TV actually provides WYSIWYG. Plenty of other makers have no problem with this, but Samsung TVs use a kind of vertical dithering which manifests as horizontal lines of a subtly-alternating brightness. You can see it most readily on solid colors, such as cyan. For PC use, this phenomenon is without question worse than even 4:2:0 color. And it causes some weird anomalies. For example, have a look at this portion of the Belle-Nuit chart. The area up-right from the "1". You may need to zoom out to see what's going on. Those two rectangular areas there are supposed to be identical; the only difference between them on a pixel level is that one is vertically offset from the other by a single pixel. And yet on a Samsung TV, that makes all the difference; you can plainly see that it has literally caused the colors to change. One is visibly more orange than the other.

I'll be bringing these issues up with the Samsung tech as well. Not with any hope that they can somehow make it vanish from their current lineup, but as evidence that people are onto them, even if sites like Rtings willfully ignore flaws such as these.
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post #908 of 1219 Old 12-09-2019, 09:17 AM
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We certainly have many other options I cut the cable long ago....
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post #909 of 1219 Old 12-09-2019, 11:47 AM
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My 75" Q70R was delivered this morning... now to find the time to get everything sorted out so I can actually unbox and swap it out.
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post #910 of 1219 Old 12-09-2019, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Sanford Mehr View Post
Bought the 82” Q70 from eBay but during the TV set up the reflection looked pretty bad and made me think if there is a screen protector on it. I find a little thin film in the top right side of the TV but that one seems to be glued.
I checked On YouTube unboxing and two of the videos show very clear and obvious screen protect that comes off.
Wonder if it is a used or repaired TV being sold as new from the eBay seller (echo and optics)
anyone else had any screen protector on their TV? Specifically the 82”
I bought my 82" brand new from Costco, it had no screen protector film on it, just around the edges.
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post #911 of 1219 Old 12-09-2019, 12:55 PM
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@Colmino


It's TV processing that causes the issues you are describing about the sub pixels. Not all resolutions support disabling all processing as you mention 23hz, 24hz, 25hz, 29hz & 30hz 4K for example for me I can't get 4:4:4 Chroma. It always gets converted down to 4:2:2 if sent 4:4:4. It gets worse if you send 4:2:2 then you get 4:2:0. So a Chroma loss is given with these resolutions. You can't send a 4:2:0 Chroma signal at these refresh rates so I can't do my workaround there but it does work for 50, 59 & 60hz signals which are always recommended for desktop usage.

Auto Motion Plus enabled adds to these processing issues. You need it disabled to get a "cleaner" view in any resolution, I think it's the one that does the dithering you mention. You can see a slight change to the picture to some test images with it enabled compared to disabled. It's not as bad as the Chroma loss and not that noticeable unless looking for the issue but all together it I prefer to always disable Motion settings not because of the slight dither sub-pixel effect but because of the artefacts it produces because of it. It's really a Motion issue only. It can't keep up to do the work needed.

There is a loss of "detail" on sub-pixels mainly green, yellow & cyan colours otherwise even with 4:4:4 Chroma in Movie Mode I've noticed for 4K. Enabling Game Mode you get the "detail" restored. PC mode doesn't show this issue as far as I could tell.
Use the "FULL CHROMA 4:4:4 TEST" image for the issue. I've not seen the issue being apparent elsewhere. For full detail all squares should be the same brightness and colour.
Might I suggest it's 4:3:4 Chroma? A loss of Chroma on green colour, but blue & red are full?

Last edited by Nighthog; 12-09-2019 at 01:31 PM.
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post #912 of 1219 Old 12-09-2019, 02:25 PM
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@Colmino
It's TV processing that causes the issues you are describing about the sub pixels. Not all resolutions support disabling all processing as you mention 23hz, 24hz, 25hz, 29hz & 30hz 4K for example for me I can't get 4:4:4 Chroma.
Observations like this are always useful data. For what it's worth, after performing the two aforementioned actions (setting the port first to "Game Console" and then back to "PC"), I get 4:4:4 in all refresh rates. So if your circumstance is due to a possible limitation of the processing, it's clear that limitation is fully as arbitrary as the limitation of being unable to select the "Movie" Display Mode while the TV thinks it's dealing with a PC.

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Auto Motion Plus enabled adds to these processing issues. You need it disabled to get a "cleaner" view in any resolution, I think it's the one that does the dithering you mention.
I disable all processing, period. I don't need it or want it. Besides which, the moment the TV is doing anything more than providing you with the pixels you're sending it, you get what I showed in the Youtube video earlier. Artifacts so awful that it is a literal mystery how no review sites have ever even hinted that it's happening.

The crosshatch dithering issue feels arbitrary to me as well. The only reason for implementing such a thing in the first place is to combat limitations in the panel -- for example, Samsung may have felt that the panel cannot achieve certain colors without cheating in this manner. In any event, it is clear that while the vertical dithering is seemingly something inherent in the hardware, the crosshatch variant can be turned on/off at will. I feel as though its appearance at certain refresh rates is effectively just another bug in the TV's software.

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Use the "FULL CHROMA 4:4:4 TEST" image for the issue.
Give a link and I will come back with my findings.
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post #913 of 1219 Old 12-09-2019, 03:17 PM
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Give a link and I will come back with my findings.

A Link over to the Q90R thread where the image was posted. Could not find it elsewhere.


https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...l#post58895158
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post #914 of 1219 Old 12-09-2019, 07:38 PM
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A Link over to the Q90R thread where the image was posted. Could not find it elsewhere.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...l#post58895158
Okay. Here's my response to that.

Colmino's Samsung TV Test


I'm considering making another one that tries to make it obvious when Samsung TVs are using crosshatch dithering.

Last edited by Colmino; 12-09-2019 at 08:21 PM.
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post #915 of 1219 Old 12-09-2019, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Nighthog View Post
A Link over to the Q90R thread where the image was posted. Could not find it elsewhere.


https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...l#post58895158
As for the 4:4:4 test, it's pretty useful. Arguably easier to identify subsampling with it than with the old standby, the Belle-Nuit test chart. Anyway, for me, it's just another way to confirm that I get solid 4:4:4 under all modes. I am reticent to try turning on Game Mode to see if it generates the loss of detail you mentioned, in part because I already did use Game Mode before and saw no loss, and in part because I am extremely wary of rocking the boat now that I have this TV in more or less the best state it can ever be in.
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post #916 of 1219 Old 12-10-2019, 04:32 AM
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Got my new Q70 up and out of the box last night and partially configured. Used the RTings settings for the most part except a couple from the CNET settings. One change I did make was that Warm1 looked better to me that Warm2 so used that.

Watching HDR content (Mandalorian on D+ and Venom on AppleTv) I ended up setting Contrast Enhancer to High but didn’t need to up the brightness.

I also ended up configuring all of the Rtings manual White balance and Color space values On the HDR profile and they seemed to be good. I know those are usually specific per TV screen calibration but will probably stick with them unless I notice looking off.

One issue that I have with this Samsung and my Harmony remote is that when I turn on the Tv it always pops up SmartHub menu instead of just staying Fullscreen on my selected input that’s part of my activity. I think this is coming from the Harmony commands as I’ve disabled the Samsung settings to open smarthub and reopen last app on startup.
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post #917 of 1219 Old 12-10-2019, 04:39 AM
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Just curious: why would you watch Amazon Prime of Roku or Fire Stick rather than the built in Amazon Prim on the Samsung Hub? I am pretty happy with the responsiveness of the Hub when it comes to navigation and making changes.
Ha ... I'm in the same situation with my Q70/Roku Streaming + . We had the Roku attached to our prior Vizio and my wife was at ease with the remote. Now she's at ease with the Roku on the Q70. As far as PQ, I notice no difference between the Roku/Q70 Smart Hub. Work in progress
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post #918 of 1219 Old 12-10-2019, 06:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Incindium View Post
Got my new Q70 up and out of the box last night and partially configured. Used the RTings settings for the most part except a couple from the CNET settings. One change I did make was that Warm1 looked better to me that Warm2 so used that.

Watching HDR content (Mandalorian on D+ and Venom on AppleTv) I ended up setting Contrast Enhancer to High but didn’t need to up the brightness.

I also ended up configuring all of the Rtings manual White balance and Color space values On the HDR profile and they seemed to be good. I know those are usually specific per TV screen calibration but will probably stick with them unless I notice looking off.

One issue that I have with this Samsung and my Harmony remote is that when I turn on the Tv it always pops up SmartHub menu instead of just staying Fullscreen on my selected input that’s part of my activity. I think this is coming from the Harmony commands as I’ve disabled the Samsung settings to open smarthub and reopen last app on startup.
my harmony does the same thing. The smart hub menus pops up at first, but then goes down after a few seconds.
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post #919 of 1219 Old 12-10-2019, 07:33 AM
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Oh man watched another few minutes of HDR Mandalorian on Disney Plus this morning. It looks really good. Now tonight to start working on getting my PC, PS4 Pro, new Sony UDH Bluray player, and new Denon 4k receiver all working.
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post #920 of 1219 Old 12-10-2019, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colmino View Post
Okay. Here's my response to that.

Colmino's Samsung TV Test



I'm considering making another one that tries to make it obvious when Samsung TVs are using crosshatch dithering.

Interesting!
I was using my YCbCR420 Signal that produced 4:4:4 Chroma and I could not get a difference on the two sides, they were the same colour! [50, 59 & 60hz 4K]
I went to test more things out and PC mode or a RGB signal would produce the result you are after so did other modes but not my YCbCR420 signal. The issue was both sides looked like the off colour one the right side on the bottom image example.

I found it was the Colour profile used. I was using a Custom colour profile for my calibration and changing it back to NATIVE resulted in the same behaviour you were after with that test image. One could now see a difference between the two halves. Using a Custom Colour profile will add more processing it looks like giving both sides the same look. I've not seen any other issues but I could at least limit down where the issue might lay.
One could ask what would you prefer?

This is a different thing to what I was mentioning about the slight loss of detail to green, yellow & cyan colours in Movie Mode vs Game Mode & PC. Two different issues. You can still see the thing you are looking for without regard for the thing I mentioned being there or not. It's just another thing entirely.

What I mention only goes away in PC mode or Game Mode without any processing enabled like Motion Plus.


But then you still have what you pointed out in your Test pattern present. Looks like depending of every other row of pixels the display gives preference to either green or red which I presume are the colours used in the pattern? Could it be a inherent issue with the display technology used and not a thing at all to do with processing?
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post #921 of 1219 Old 12-10-2019, 08:41 AM
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I have two issues with a 75 inch Q70 and was wondering if anyone can shed any light on them:

1. I get a terrible high pitched whine from the upper left of the TV when the motion control settings are off. It occurs in GAME mode and all picture modes when Motion Plus is disabled. Does anyone else experience this?

2. I see what appear to be ghosts or afterimages in all content, Motion Plus on or off. Is this just the nature of LCD tv's of this size? Or even just samsung TVs?


I am pretty sure this TV is going back, I am just trying to see if I should request a refund or replacement. I really like everything else about the TV.
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post #922 of 1219 Old 12-10-2019, 09:18 AM
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I have two issues with a 75 inch Q70 and was wondering if anyone can shed any light on them:

1. I get a terrible high pitched whine from the upper left of the TV when the motion control settings are off. It occurs in GAME mode and all picture modes when Motion Plus is disabled. Does anyone else experience this?

2. I see what appear to be ghosts or afterimages in all content, Motion Plus on or off. Is this just the nature of LCD tv's of this size? Or even just samsung TVs?


I am pretty sure this TV is going back, I am just trying to see if I should request a refund or replacement. I really like everything else about the TV.
Strange. I get neither from my 65". I wish you luck and recommend that you definitely take it back if you're not happy.
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post #923 of 1219 Old 12-10-2019, 09:23 AM
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Definitely exchange that 75inch with another one. High pitched while is probably from a defective electrical coil somewhere.
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post #924 of 1219 Old 12-10-2019, 10:05 AM
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A question about firmware updates for Q70. I didn't check for firmware updates on initial startup but a couple hours later when I finally did check I was surprised it showed I'm running the latest version 1335.0 from Nov 26,2019.

So did it download it in the background and install it while I was messing around with settings or did it ship with latest firmware somehow?

I did have an issue yesterday evening were it stopped connecting my wireless network and when I tried to remove and readd the connection it would just fail. I resolved that by holding down the power button on the remote and it shutdown and restarted and afterwards I was able to setup my wireless connection again.

I'm wonder it maybe the wireless problems were caused by it installing the new firmware in background? Anyone have any thoughts or insight on this?
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post #925 of 1219 Old 12-10-2019, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by troopa138 View Post
Ha ... I'm in the same situation with my Q70/Roku Streaming + . We had the Roku attached to our prior Vizio and my wife was at ease with the remote. Now she's at ease with the Roku on the Q70. As far as PQ, I notice no difference between the Roku/Q70 Smart Hub. Work in progress
I had a 2011 8000 series LED Samsung TV before and didn't like its smart remote at all. I like the Q70 remote pretty well now, though I am missing the 10 second rewind and the 30 second fast forward buttons from the ROKU. I am really liking this TV: maybe my standards are much lower than those of some of the folks on this thread. I certainly find it plenty bright. The responsiveness of the old HUB was terrible, but the new one has none of that issue at all. I'm irked that CNN and some other news apps are not available on the HUB: bewildering that Samsung chose to do that. I can't see any reason that they would not allow the installation of the app. I did pay the extra $3 per month for high res Netflix viewing, though it is not clear that the difference is that evident for my 55" model.
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post #926 of 1219 Old 12-10-2019, 01:37 PM
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Discovered one answer on my own:



It appears if you use the home key and go to inputs and select the input again, it will put up a banner with video stream information. That's a lot of clicks for what I can typically see with one button click on most other TVs, but at least now I can debug any signal problems further...
How do you get video stream info for streaming channels, like Netflix and Prime? I run a cable box through my AVR and can select it from the Sources menu on the home screen and get the video stream info as you suggested, but I see no way to do this for streaming channels. Sorry if I am confused but just purchased and set it up and and don't see any other input list. I want to be sure I am getting HDR content and it is displayed correctly.
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post #927 of 1219 Old 12-10-2019, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Incindium View Post
A question about firmware updates for Q70. I didn't check for firmware updates on initial startup but a couple hours later when I finally did check I was surprised it showed I'm running the latest version 1335.0 from Nov 26,2019.

So did it download it in the background and install it while I was messing around with settings or did it ship with latest firmware somehow?

I did have an issue yesterday evening were it stopped connecting my wireless network and when I tried to remove and readd the connection it would just fail. I resolved that by holding down the power button on the remote and it shutdown and restarted and afterwards I was able to setup my wireless connection again.

I'm wonder it maybe the wireless problems were caused by it installing the new firmware in background? Anyone have any thoughts or insight on this?
I seriously doubt it shipped with the latest 11/26/19 firmware. I would suspect that you are on to the culprit in the firmware update. Please report back if you continue to have wifi issues.
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post #928 of 1219 Old 12-10-2019, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Nighthog View Post
I was using my YCbCR420 Signal that produced 4:4:4 Chroma and I could not get a difference on the two sides, they were the same colour! [50, 59 & 60hz 4K]
That's interesting by itself and I'd be keen on seeing a detailed photo of the screen with my test and the 4:4:4 test side-by-side, as I cannot reproduce your specific circumstances.

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I went to test more things out and PC mode or a RGB signal would produce the result you are after so did other modes but not my YCbCR420 signal.
And that's the reason why I'd like to see a photo. In true 4:2:0 color resolution, the test is worthless (as I note in the blurb at the top of the test image), so it's unavoidable that I question the nature of your 4:2:0-as-4:4:4 output.

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One could ask what would you prefer?
I prefer, perhaps obviously, that a display give me what I send it. My last TV, a 42 inch LG that's literally a decade old, had zero difficulty giving me exactly the pixels I sent it. I cannot say the same about a 2019 Samsung. And the really distressing thing is that not a single review site out there is aware and chooses to alert buyers of this shortcoming -- not even the ones that otherwise go into comically exhaustive detail with their analyses.

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But then you still have what you pointed out in your Test pattern present. Looks like depending of every other row of pixels the display gives preference to either green or red which I presume are the colours used in the pattern? Could it be a inherent issue with the display technology used and not a thing at all to do with processing?
What's going on is that every other horizontal line in a Samsung TV's display is designed to be very slightly less bright, but on a curve: Most obvious at medium luminance and with certain colors like cyan or green, and not apparent at all with pure black or pure white. It feels like a step taken to combat specific known deficiencies with the panel, in order to tweak things in the direction of color spec compliance. In any event, the test image abuses these built-in inaccuracies to manifest the wrong colors they can engender. As for whether the horizontal lines are being generated by hardware or software, I don't have any way of testing, but since the phenomenon is 100% ever-present (across seemingly all modern Samsung models) and the input lag is phenomenally low, I'd bet on it being hardware-implemented.
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post #929 of 1219 Old 12-10-2019, 08:08 PM
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I just setup my 70r today and while I don't notice it most of the time, on white screens the further most left and white edges appear to have a darker off white color. Is this a setting issue or bad panel or what?
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post #930 of 1219 Old 12-10-2019, 08:22 PM
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Input source choice gets stuck

I've had my 65" for a few weeks and have sporadically seen an issue when changing input sources. I hear the sound of the new input, but the fullscreen white-ish image with the circle shaped icon for the input is displayed and never goes away. The only way to clear it is to turn the TV off for about 30 seconds. I have the latest firmware.
Inputs:
1) Spectrum DVR
2) Roku Ultra (input signal plus is on)
3) Xbox One (input signal plus is on)
4) Splitter with various streaming sticks and Nintendo Switch

Any thoughts?
Thanks!

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Samsung 65Q70R
Spectrum 9865HDC
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