77 LG C9 vs Samsung 75 Q90R Help Me Choose - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 178 Old 05-18-2019, 10:00 PM - Thread Starter
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So just to revive this thread.

BB has just now gotten stock on the 77C9 available so this is really where the rubber meets the road as, for the first time ever, I can actually purchase either of these displays and expect to have it delivered in a pretty reasonable amount of time.

They also finally have a display wall at the local Magnolia setup where they are showing multiple high end TVs on a wall going against each other. They do have the C9 and the Q90R, both in 65" size but unfortunately not right next to each other and of course they refuse to let me adjust the picture settings.

Honestly I am more conflicted now than ever because these are both solid displays that each have certain things going for them;

LG
  • Deeper black levels
  • No black crush
  • Better menu system / apps space
  • HDMI 2.1
  • Nicer included stand (not sure if I will put on console or wall mount)
  • Better color accuracy

Samsung
  • Anti glare filter that crushes the LG
  • Better white point accuracy in display I witnessed (LG had way too high of a white point, at least D7K maybe even higher).
  • Much much brighter
  • noticeable DSE in snowboarding demo material
  • Lack of DV and EARC make my nuts hurt.
  • black crush on star field material.

They also had the 2018 mid level Sony on display that retails for about $2800, it looked quite good too.

Not sure which TV to get at this point. Hope Vincent's head to head drops soon.

Last edited by jmpage2; 05-19-2019 at 07:37 AM.
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post #32 of 178 Old 05-18-2019, 10:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post
So just to revive this thread.

BB has just now gotten stock on the 77C9 available so this is really where the rubber meets the road as, for the first time ever, I can actually purchase either of these displays and expect to have it delivered in a pretty reasonable amount of time.

They also finally have a display wall at the local Magnolia setup where they are showing multiple high end TVs on a wall going against each other. They do have the C9 and the Q90R, both in 65" size but unfortunately not right next to each other and of course they refuse to let me adjust the picture settings.

Honestly I am more conflicted now than ever because these are both solid displays that each have certain things going for them;

LG
  • Deeper black levels
  • No black crush
  • Better menu system / apps space
  • HDMI 2.1
  • Nicer included stand (not sure if I will put on console or wall mount)
  • Better color accuracy
[*]Anti glare filter that crushes the LG[*]Better white point accuracy in display I witnessed (LG had way too high of a white point, at least D7K maybe even higher).[*]Much much brighter[*]noticeable DSE in snowboarding demo material[*]Lack of DV and EARC make my nuts hurt.[*]black crush on star field material.

They also had the 2018 mid level Sony on display that retails for about $2800, it looked quite good too.

Not sure which TV to get at this point. Hope Vincent's head to head drops soon.

what about the 82"? looks like that just dropped In price at midnight. digital trends did a head to head of the Q90r and C8 a few days ago. also Vinces new video last night I believe also showed some Q90 vs C8 footage (even though the video title was Q90 vs 950g)
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post #33 of 178 Old 05-18-2019, 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by New_to_4K View Post
I got burn-in from internal apps on my B6, less than 2 years old. I Never game and never watched cable news on it. Didn’t realize until I did a Youtube test and there were three burn-ins.
Can you take a pic w/your phone and show us the burn-in?

Also, when you’ll said you didn’t realize it, was that b/c you can’t see it unless your running a burn-in test?

In case you're wondering, my setup: Sony 65x930E, Denon x3200W, 2 Martin Logan 35XT, 1 ML Motion 8 Center Channel, and 1 ML Dynamo 700W Sub.
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post #34 of 178 Old 05-18-2019, 11:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post
So just to revive this thread.

BB has just now gotten stock on the 77C9 available so this is really where the rubber meets the road as, for the first time ever, I can actually purchase either of these displays and expect to have it delivered in a pretty reasonable amount of time.

They also finally have a display wall at the local Magnolia setup where they are showing multiple high end TVs on a wall going against each other. They do have the C9 and the Q90R, both in 65" size but unfortunately not right next to each other and of course they refuse to let me adjust the picture settings.

Honestly I am more conflicted now than ever because these are both solid displays that each have certain things going for them;

LG
  • Deeper black levels
  • No black crush
  • Better menu system / apps space
  • HDMI 2.1
  • Nicer included stand (not sure if I will put on console or wall mount)
  • Better color accuracy
[*]Anti glare filter that crushes the LG[*]Better white point accuracy in display I witnessed (LG had way too high of a white point, at least D7K maybe even higher).[*]Much much brighter[*]noticeable DSE in snowboarding demo material[*]Lack of DV and EARC make my nuts hurt.[*]black crush on star field material.

They also had the 2018 mid level Sony on display that retails for about $2800, it looked quite good too.

Not sure which TV to get at this point. Hope Vincent's head to head drops soon.

Get the OLED. It has DolbyVision (and almost every Netflix-produced show/movie is in DolbyVision) and perfect blacks. The images will pop. And if you’re worried about burn-in, then purchase a warranty with burn-in protection from Best Buy. Personally, a 77” OLED is going to be my next purchase when I upgrade from my 65” LED. Finally, the good thing about BB is that if you don’t like it, you can return it no questions asked.

In case you're wondering, my setup: Sony 65x930E, Denon x3200W, 2 Martin Logan 35XT, 1 ML Motion 8 Center Channel, and 1 ML Dynamo 700W Sub.
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post #35 of 178 Old 05-19-2019, 05:47 AM
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Why not wait for the 77 A9G?
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post #36 of 178 Old 05-19-2019, 07:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Why not wait for the 77 A9G?
1. A9G not coming till September and I don’t want to wait that long.

2. No HDMI 2.1 in a set that retails for nearly $8,000 is a nonstarter for me.
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post #37 of 178 Old 05-19-2019, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post
1. A9G not coming till September and I don’t want to wait that long.

2. No HDMI 2.1 in a set that retails for nearly $8,000 is a nonstarter for me.

Obviously can't change the lack of HDMI 2.1, but it does have eARC, so it's really only missing VRR. Based on early impressions, it may again have the best overall PQ.



Where did you read September for the 77"? The 55" and 65" are shipping now, so I would be surprised if the 77" has a four month delay.
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post #38 of 178 Old 05-19-2019, 07:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JD23 View Post
Obviously can't change the lack of HDMI 2.1, but it does have eARC, so it's really only missing VRR. Based on early impressions, it may again have the best overall PQ.



Where did you read September for the 77"? The 55" and 65" are shipping now, so I would be surprised if the 77" has a four month delay.
Okay looks like I was mistaken and the 77 will release soon.

It is still a $1000 premium over the LG, doesn't offer HDMI. Specifically it's missing VRR, ALLM and 120hz @ 4K support.

I do agree that the Sony motion processing is the best but the gap has likely narrowed in 2019 to the point that it's not worth (to me) the extra $1,000 especially when it will be costing me features.
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post #39 of 178 Old 05-19-2019, 07:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Radvlad View Post
Get the OLED. It has DolbyVision (and almost every Netflix-produced show/movie is in DolbyVision) and perfect blacks. The images will pop. And if you’re worried about burn-in, then purchase a warranty with burn-in protection from Best Buy. Personally, a 77” OLED is going to be my next purchase when I upgrade from my 65” LED. Finally, the good thing about BB is that if you don’t like it, you can return it no questions asked.
I'd have to see some side by side comparisons with DV and lack of DV to see what the real viewing impact is.

Believe me, I was certain I was just going to pony up for the 77 C9 once it hit but after seeing the two sets displaying the same material it is closer for me now than before.

The anti-glare filter on the Samsung blows what the LG has out of the water. The LG looks like a mirror by comparison. My TV is not going into a pitch black theater room with controlled lighting, it is going into a family room that has windows on one side. With my plasma we just shut the blinds if we are watching something in the middle of the day to control reflections but I wouldn't have to do this at all with the Samsung.
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post #40 of 178 Old 05-19-2019, 09:44 AM
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I own both the C8 and the Q90R and I’d give a slight nod to the Q90R. I personally like the C8 better for low quality cable, due to better color, and the Q90 is better for HDR. HDR highlights pop a LOT more with the extra brightness. The Q90R is also the better set for sports, due to better motion. I hate LG’s motion for sports, especially hockey. Panel lottery is also a MUCH bigger issue on OLED imo.

The anti-reflection filter definitely steals the day for the Q90 though...it really is a thing of beauty! Plus, you can call me crazy, but I love the stand on the Q90! Most attractive and heaviest built stand I’ve ever encountered on a flat panel tv, although the 77” C8/C9 stand is really nice as well.

Samsung 82” Q90R * Denon X4500H * 5.2.4 Atmos * Xbox One X * PS4 Pro

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post #41 of 178 Old 05-19-2019, 09:54 AM
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I just watched Vincent's comparison video of the Q90R and X950G and the two seemed much closer than I expected, with the Q90R only having significant advantages for blooming and peak brightness. If I had not read other reviews, the two would have seemed roughly equal based on that one video.
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post #42 of 178 Old 05-19-2019, 09:57 AM
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Okay looks like I was mistaken and the 77 will release soon.

It is still a $1000 premium over the LG, doesn't offer HDMI. Specifically it's missing VRR, ALLM and 120hz @ 4K support.

I do agree that the Sony motion processing is the best but the gap has likely narrowed in 2019 to the point that it's not worth (to me) the extra $1,000 especially when it will be costing me features.

I am also considering these three TVs (A9G, C9, and Q90R). I doubt PS5 will be powerful enough to make 4k/120hz relevant and ALLM is just a minor convenience feature, so VRR is the one HDMI 2.1 feature missing from the A9G that seems significant. However, I don't have a good feel for how much VRR will improve the experience and whether the particular implementation used on the C9 will be supported by PS5.



Regarding burn-in, will kids be using the TV often? When I was the only one using my plasma, long-term IR/burn-in was easier to manage, but it's a bit more annoying when other family members use the TV. For example, one started burning the Amazon Prime CC box after a couple of months.
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post #43 of 178 Old 05-19-2019, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by JD23 View Post
I just watched Vincent's comparison video of the Q90R and X950G and the two seemed much closer than I expected, with the Q90R only having significant advantages for blooming and peak brightness. If I had not read other reviews, the two would have seemed roughly equal based on that one video.
You forgot the biggest and most significant difference that he mentioned in that video...ANTI-REFLECTION!

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post #44 of 178 Old 05-19-2019, 10:07 AM
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You forgot the biggest and most significant difference that he mentioned in that video...ANTI-REFLECTION!

The importance of that category depends on one's viewing environment. I care about anti-reflective properties, but I use my gameroom TV 90-95% of the time at night, so it is not the top factor for me. However, I can see why the Q90R would be preferred if one primarily watches TV during the day with multiple light sources opposite the TV. Vincent's comments concerning the obvious superiority of the X950G's image processing and picture accuracy makes me hope Sony decides to release an LCD with similar specs to that of the Q90R (mythical 65" Z9G).
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post #45 of 178 Old 05-19-2019, 10:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JD23 View Post
I am also considering these three TVs (A9G, C9, and Q90R). I doubt PS5 will be powerful enough to make 4k/120hz relevant and ALLM is just a minor convenience feature, so VRR is the one HDMI 2.1 feature missing from the A9G that seems significant. However, I don't have a good feel for how much VRR will improve the experience and whether the particular implementation used on the C9 will be supported by PS5.



Regarding burn-in, will kids be using the TV often? When I was the only one using my plasma, long-term IR/burn-in was easier to manage, but it's a bit more annoying when other family members use the TV. For example, one started burning the Amazon Prime CC box after a couple of months.
The rumors are already that Sony wants the PS5 to be an 8K console. If it's 8K/30fps capable it will definitely do [email protected]

Based on how big of a deal variable frame rate games, video cards & displays are in the PC gaming world I think it will be a pretty big deal in the coming years since console tends to lag the PC gaming world by about 2-3 years or so.

I do have young kids so burn in is a concern, but it seems that starting with the 7th series OLED panels and the latest software it is much less of a concern than it used to be.
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post #46 of 178 Old 05-19-2019, 10:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JD23 View Post
I just watched Vincent's comparison video of the Q90R and X950G and the two seemed much closer than I expected, with the Q90R only having significant advantages for blooming and peak brightness. If I had not read other reviews, the two would have seemed roughly equal based on that one video.
Actually my take away was that Sony favors accuracy over "pop" in their PQ. The mid range Sony LED set had better motion handling, better color accuracy and more accurate SDR/HDR brightness and shadow detail than the Samsung set that sells for a huge premium over it.

If Sony had an HDMI 2.1 capable LED TV available in 2019 I would really be considering it but it seems that this is an "off" year for Sony on releasing sets that offer real marked improvements, at least at the level I'm looking at purchasing.


On the Samsung, the anti glare filter is simply incredible but won' be that big of a deal to everyone. The Samsung also has amazing brightness and the off axis filter is the best out there. It does come at the expense of contrast taking a hit in the 2019 TVs.
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post #47 of 178 Old 05-19-2019, 10:20 AM
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The importance of that category depends on one's viewing environment. I care about anti-reflective properties, but I use my gameroom TV 90-95% of the time at night, so it is not the top factor for me. However, I can see why the Q90R would be preferred if one primarily watches TV during the day with multiple light sources opposite the TV. Vincent's comments concerning the obvious superiority of the X950G's image processing and picture accuracy makes me hope Sony decides to release an LCD with similar specs to that of the Q90R (mythical 65" Z9G).
Have to agree with you there. A new 4K FALD Sony with Z9D or better zone counts, better anti-reflection filter, backlight master drive, x-wide angle...and a price not up in the stratosphere would be a dream come true!

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post #48 of 178 Old 05-19-2019, 11:14 AM
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The rumors are already that Sony wants the PS5 to be an 8K console. If it's 8K/30fps capable it will definitely do [email protected]

Based on how big of a deal variable frame rate games, video cards & displays are in the PC gaming world I think it will be a pretty big deal in the coming years since console tends to lag the PC gaming world by about 2-3 years or so.

I do have young kids so burn in is a concern, but it seems that starting with the 7th series OLED panels and the latest software it is much less of a concern than it used to be.

Based on the specs released so far, PS5 won't be able to render 8k on anything other than very simple games. PS4 Pro can't render in native 4k and can't do 1080p/120fps, so 4k/120fps is virtually out of the question for PS5 and a more realistic benchmark is complex 4k games at a stable 60 fps. For the last several generations, people have vastly overestimated the rendering capabilities of consoles prior to their release. Also, most developers would rather sacrifice resolution or frame rate and increase special effects and polygon counts.
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post #49 of 178 Old 05-19-2019, 11:36 AM
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Nice thread. I’m in the same boat but am waiting to see how the 85 inch Sony comes out. My issue is there is a giant mirror behind my back wall that my g7 oled reflect everything on. My wife won’t let me move it. So... the Samsung being 82 inches is also really appealing. I wish I could sit with both and play some material side by side. My 2017 oled DOES fave burn in and I DID buy the warranty from BB. So far they say it’s not noticeable but it really makes me think twice about OLED. But those blacks tho....
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post #50 of 178 Old 05-19-2019, 12:12 PM
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Nice thread. I’m in the same boat but am waiting to see how the 85 inch Sony comes out. My issue is there is a giant mirror behind my back wall that my g7 oled reflect everything on. My wife won’t let me move it. So... the Samsung being 82 inches is also really appealing. I wish I could sit with both and play some material side by side. My 2017 oled DOES fave burn in and I DID buy the warranty from BB. So far they say it’s not noticeable but it really makes me think twice about OLED. But those blacks tho....

What type of content did you watch on the G7? OLED supporters have claimed the 7 series and newer are nearly resistant to burn-in unless one intentionally "abuses" the TV.
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post #51 of 178 Old 05-19-2019, 12:26 PM
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News basically my wife leaves it on all the time. It’s not bad and you would never see it without slides but it is there.
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post #52 of 178 Old 05-19-2019, 01:21 PM
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News basically my wife leaves it on all the time. It’s not bad and you would never see it without slides but it is there.

That's not too surprising then because the cable news, with constant scrolling tickers and "Breaking News" graphics, is known to be one of the most common causes of burn-in. Rtings included CNN in its burn-in tests because the bright red fixed graphics cause rapid aging of the red subpixel. If I get an OLED, I will still have a Sony X930E that I can use for the content most likely to cause burn-in, such as sports and news.
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post #53 of 178 Old 05-19-2019, 02:37 PM
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if you upgrade from a sony lcd, the only choice is a sony oled (if youre not buying into 8k for now). if you get an lg oled or a samsung q90r, you will not feel at home with motion, lg's and samsung's motion will feel different and it'll take months for you to get accustomed to it. even then, you would find sony's x1 xtreme/ultimate has subtle advantages in motion over lg and samsung. Although lg on their oleds is getting better with motion year over year, they are still playing catch up to sony. Samsung has not upgraded their motion processing and that is the case with the q90r too, i find their motion processing mediocre at best. I got to eye the q90r, it does have some other improvements from last year's model but the motion looks absolutely the same as the q9fn. q90r with the 'quantum' processor.. yeah give it any fancy name, the motion is still not on par with sony. you should be wary of the word 'quantum' anyways whenever you see it (just like that harlequin who runs his youtube channel).
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post #54 of 178 Old 05-19-2019, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post
So just to revive this thread.

BB has just now gotten stock on the 77C9 available so this is really where the rubber meets the road as, for the first time ever, I can actually purchase either of these displays and expect to have it delivered in a pretty reasonable amount of time.

They also finally have a display wall at the local Magnolia setup where they are showing multiple high end TVs on a wall going against each other. They do have the C9 and the Q90R, both in 65" size but unfortunately not right next to each other and of course they refuse to let me adjust the picture settings.

Honestly I am more conflicted now than ever because these are both solid displays that each have certain things going for them;

LG
  • Deeper black levels
  • No black crush
  • Better menu system / apps space
  • HDMI 2.1
  • Nicer included stand (not sure if I will put on console or wall mount)
  • Better color accuracy

Samsung
  • Anti glare filter that crushes the LG
  • Better white point accuracy in display I witnessed (LG had way too high of a white point, at least D7K maybe even higher).
  • Much much brighter
  • noticeable DSE in snowboarding demo material
  • Lack of DV and EARC make my nuts hurt.
  • black crush on star field material.

They also had the 2018 mid level Sony on display that retails for about $2800, it looked quite good too.

Not sure which TV to get at this point. Hope Vincent's head to head drops soon.
If your tv isn't going to have a series of large windows facing it all day long, and if a majority of what you watch isn't logo containing
content, I think it's a no brainer to go with the c9,, (I would personally go for the c8) and save a nice chunk of money,, look on ebay, they run sales for under $four g's every now and again (for the c8 77").. if you value depth and color accuracy, and never seeing even the slighest bit of blooming on your tv,, noticably deeper blacks in certain dark scenes,, then go with either the c8 or c9.. However, i feel that motion is better overall on the Q9's, because while watching 24 p content oled's stutter and my q9fn 75" did not, but in all other content they both have good motion... I watch way too much content containing logos, and even still, i may go back to oled.....

Pansaonic VT60 60" (GONE) Panasonic VT50 65" (GONE)
Sony X900e 65" (GONE)
Panasonic GT50 55"
LG Oled C8 & B8 65" (GONE)
Samsung Q9FN 75" (GONE) SONY X940E (On the way)

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post #55 of 178 Old 05-19-2019, 05:08 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm attaching a picture of the room in question and where the existing 60" Plasma is (wall mounted above a large cherry stand from Standout Designs).

77 OLED is maximum size display I can accommodate and could either be wall mounted (I have a large high end articulated mount but would likely have to adjust the mount height which would stink) or could just put it directly on the console. The main advantage of the articulated mount is I can bring the TV another 15" out past current location into room and of course tilt it, etc., not sure that I would want to do this as much with a much larger display.

Also pardon the mess, we just had a baby.

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post #56 of 178 Old 05-19-2019, 05:15 PM
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^
How do you like the stand from Standout Designs? I was looking at a similar one, but with a center speaker compartment.
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post #57 of 178 Old 05-19-2019, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Menarini View Post
if you upgrade from a sony lcd, the only choice is a sony oled (if youre not buying into 8k for now). if you get an lg oled or a samsung q90r, you will not feel at home with motion, lg's and samsung's motion will feel different and it'll take months for you to get accustomed to it. even then, you would find sony's x1 xtreme/ultimate has subtle advantages in motion over lg and samsung..

This is what I was thinking, as this would be replacing an X930E. I will likely wait until the late summer or early fall to see whether a 65" Z9G is announced. If not, the A9G is the most likely choice, but I won't rule out the C9 yet, especially if its price gets marked down enough.
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post #58 of 178 Old 05-19-2019, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Menarini View Post
if you upgrade from a sony lcd, the only choice is a sony oled (if youre not buying into 8k for now). if you get an lg oled or a samsung q90r, you will not feel at home with motion, lg's and samsung's motion will feel different and it'll take months for you to get accustomed to it. even then, you would find sony's x1 xtreme/ultimate has subtle advantages in motion over lg and samsung. Although lg on their oleds is getting better with motion year over year, they are still playing catch up to sony. Samsung has not upgraded their motion processing and that is the case with the q90r too, i find their motion processing mediocre at best. I got to eye the q90r, it does have some other improvements from last year's model but the motion looks absolutely the same as the q9fn. q90r with the 'quantum' processor.. yeah give it any fancy name, the motion is still not on par with sony. you should be wary of the word 'quantum' anyways whenever you see it (just like that harlequin who runs his youtube channel).
Sorry, but this is simply not true. Motion is close enough to be a non issue between the Sony and the Samsung imo. I switched from a Z9F to a Q90 and I feel pretty comfortable with the transition.

I’m a Sony guy at heart, but I gotta be fair and call it like I see it.

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post #59 of 178 Old 05-19-2019, 06:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JD23 View Post
^
How do you like the stand from Standout Designs? I was looking at a similar one, but with a center speaker compartment.
I do have a PSB center speaker in mine, the top drawer can be used for a center.

I love the standout design products.
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post #60 of 178 Old 05-19-2019, 07:29 PM
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Sorry, but most professional calibrators are unanimous in their call when they say sony has an edge over all other manufacturers in motion processing currently. Should i believe them or should i believe you? I'll surely believe them any day of the week. And my personal experience, which aligns with them. Vinent teoh recently compared a q90r to a sony tv, he gave the edge on motion processing to sony over samsung. If your eyes are tuned to sony motion, it is NOT close enough. If you think they look almost the same, it simply means you are not a motion critical watcher. If you feel comfortable with the transition does not mean everyone would do. There are lots of people critical towards motion and to them sony is a better choice over all others , including samsung and lg. The subtle advantages in motion processing is what matters to people who are critical of motion and sony has an edge in this department.
Never said Sony wasn’t ‘slightly’ better, but you are blowing it WAAAAAY out of proportion. Even all the respected reviewers say that it is VERY close. Then again, you show up in every single thread with the same old and overused arguments for Sony. Doesn’t it get tiresome the constant battle against all other brands not called Sony? Seriously!?

I mean, the OP didn’t even ask about Sony and you are still trying to cram it down our throats.
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