77 LG C9 vs Samsung 75 Q90R Help Me Choose - Page 6 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #151 of 178 Old 05-23-2019, 08:03 PM
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Yes, amazingly even when you aren’t here crapping in it this thread goes on.
Lol he helped you a lot in the decision making process...that made me chuckle, give him a gold star😆😆😆
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post #152 of 178 Old 05-23-2019, 08:08 PM
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he got a goldstar for himself, i got nothing.
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post #153 of 178 Old 05-23-2019, 08:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, amazingly even when you aren’t here crapping in it this thread goes on.
Lol he helped you a lot in the decision making process...that made me chuckle, give him a gold star😆😆😆
I know, right?
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post #154 of 178 Old 05-23-2019, 08:09 PM - Thread Starter
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he got a goldstar for himself, i got nothing.
Yes we both get what we deserve it seems.
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post #155 of 178 Old 05-23-2019, 08:15 PM
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As the OP I wanted to update the thread with my purchase decision as I pulled the trigger on a 77C9 a short while ago from AZ retailer Walt's.

I spent additional time today comparing the PQ directly between the C9 and the Q90R at local Magnolia. They were slow and one of the managers (not on commission) was more than happy to let me mess around with picture modes and try a variety of content.

First off, the anti-glare filter on the Q90R very very nearly pushed me over the edge into a purchase decision to get that TV but there were a few things that ended up allowing the LG to win the day;

My score card;
  1. The LG had better motion handling when playing the same content as the Samsung

    The LG had less upscaled 1080P->4K macro-blocking in action scenes when playing bit-perfect Blu-ray disc material streamed from the BB Kaleidoscape server.

    The LG increase in contrast was quite noticeable.

    Biggest weakness of Samsung? DSE which was present to some degree on all three of the various size Q90R on display.

    Biggest weakness of LG? Anti-glare filter is sub-par compared to what Samsung is using. However I don't feel it is any worse than my current plasma TV (probably better) and I can live with that so should be able to live with this.

    The lack of EARC on the Samsung, something I will definitely make use of (I've always battled lip sync issues on my TVs) was a huge point in LGs favor.

    The Samsung was noticeably brighter than the C9 but in viewing real content both sets could get very bright. If I was putting a TV in a very bright room and still wanting to have my socks blown off by HDR I would definitely have leaned more heavily towards the Q90.

    I ordered the LG C9 for the insane price of $5200 + sales tax from Walt's TV in AZ. This is the largest online CE purchase I have ever made so hopefully it will go smoothly. As much as I wanted to deal with a local company for peace of mind I couldn't pass up the chance to get this kind of pricing so new into the model year of a brand new TV. I gave BB the option to price match but they passed, I can't blame them.

I really would have liked to compare the Sony as well but even though I expect superior motion handling and out of the box PQ from the Sony it would be hard to justify the additional cost of the LG which already has a great picture.

Final point.... these are both outstanding TVs. Anybody should be proud to own either and owners should be less defensive of flaws in their purchase choice as ALL sets have flaws.

I am relieved this is over, toughest electronics purchase decision I've yet made. Now on to a week or two of nail biting waiting for the set to show up and hoping it isn't grossly defective.

Did you notice any magenta tint during white or earth tone scenes on the C9? I'm considering the current Costco deal on the C9, but the most common complaint this year seems to be the magenta tint, which brings back bad memories of the green and magenta blob on my old Sony SXRD.
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post #156 of 178 Old 05-23-2019, 09:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post
As the OP I wanted to update the thread with my purchase decision as I pulled the trigger on a 77C9 a short while ago from AZ retailer Walt's.

I spent additional time today comparing the PQ directly between the C9 and the Q90R at local Magnolia. They were slow and one of the managers (not on commission) was more than happy to let me mess around with picture modes and try a variety of content.

First off, the anti-glare filter on the Q90R very very nearly pushed me over the edge into a purchase decision to get that TV but there were a few things that ended up allowing the LG to win the day;

My score card;
  1. The LG had better motion handling when playing the same content as the Samsung

    The LG had less upscaled 1080P->4K macro-blocking in action scenes when playing bit-perfect Blu-ray disc material streamed from the BB Kaleidoscape server.

    The LG increase in contrast was quite noticeable.

    Biggest weakness of Samsung? DSE which was present to some degree on all three of the various size Q90R on display.

    Biggest weakness of LG? Anti-glare filter is sub-par compared to what Samsung is using. However I don't feel it is any worse than my current plasma TV (probably better) and I can live with that so should be able to live with this.

    The lack of EARC on the Samsung, something I will definitely make use of (I've always battled lip sync issues on my TVs) was a huge point in LGs favor.

    The Samsung was noticeably brighter than the C9 but in viewing real content both sets could get very bright. If I was putting a TV in a very bright room and still wanting to have my socks blown off by HDR I would definitely have leaned more heavily towards the Q90.

    I ordered the LG C9 for the insane price of $5200 + sales tax from Walt's TV in AZ. This is the largest online CE purchase I have ever made so hopefully it will go smoothly. As much as I wanted to deal with a local company for peace of mind I couldn't pass up the chance to get this kind of pricing so new into the model year of a brand new TV. I gave BB the option to price match but they passed, I can't blame them.

I really would have liked to compare the Sony as well but even though I expect superior motion handling and out of the box PQ from the Sony it would be hard to justify the additional cost of the LG which already has a great picture.

Final point.... these are both outstanding TVs. Anybody should be proud to own either and owners should be less defensive of flaws in their purchase choice as ALL sets have flaws.

I am relieved this is over, toughest electronics purchase decision I've yet made. Now on to a week or two of nail biting waiting for the set to show up and hoping it isn't grossly defective.

Did you notice any magenta tint during white or earth tone scenes on the C9? I'm considering the current Costco deal on the C9, but the most common complaint this year seems to be the magenta tint, which brings back bad memories of the green and magenta blob on my old Sony SXRD.
I did not observe any tint and I was looking for it. On the other hand I might not be particularly sensitive to it.

Keep in mind that if the problem was that serious we would be reading about it in the numerous reviews that have been published to date.
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post #157 of 178 Old 05-24-2019, 05:57 AM
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So now Walt's is offering the 77C9 for $5200 shipped.

Geez.

Analysis paralysis indeed!
Who is this "Walt's" you speak of?

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post #158 of 178 Old 05-24-2019, 06:00 AM
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Who is this "Walt's" you speak of?

Walts.com for a store in Tempe, AZ. That other price doesn't appear to be there anymore, though. You may have to call.

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post #159 of 178 Old 05-24-2019, 06:06 AM
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I’m so jealous of the deals you guys can get in the US.

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post #160 of 178 Old 05-24-2019, 07:01 AM - Thread Starter
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So now Walt's is offering the 77C9 for $5200 shipped.

Geez.

Analysis paralysis indeed!
Who is this "Walt's" you speak of?
Walt’s TV in Arizona was running a deal on the 77C9 and is an authorized LG dealer.

You had to do the chat that popped up on the product page or call them to get the pricing of $5,200 with free curbside delivery.

Not sure if the deal is still available but I was able to order yesterday.
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post #161 of 178 Old 05-24-2019, 07:02 AM - Thread Starter
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I’m so jealous of the deals you guys can get in the US.
Save the excitement for when it shows up in good condition with no horrible panel issues.
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post #162 of 178 Old 05-24-2019, 12:33 PM
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Hey. Guess what?

I saw the burn-in today. I went into BB to check out the tvs, yet once again, and one of the guys took me to a C8 65" LG OLED, hanging on the wall, that had burn-in. You could totally see it when the background was red. In other colors you couldn't see it at all. But I saw the purple unicorn rabbit today. It was a tree image that had burned in.

So now I am no longer a NON-believer. I was wrong.

But for some reason, now I believe the world is flat.

Thanks

Mark
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post #163 of 178 Old 05-24-2019, 01:00 PM
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Exactly my dilemma and I chose the 77" C9

Just pulled the trigger yesterday, and here are my reasons:

(1.) I'm a tech geek and I couldn't resist the allure of HDMI 2.1. I'm going to hold on to this TV for a loooong time. When I buy a good TV, it's going to last and as a result, in 3 years, HDMI devices will all be upgraded to 2.1 and I want to be able to take advantage of the additional bandwidth for gaming, which leads me to...

(2.) Q90R is the best gaming rig today but without HDMI 2.1, in 3 years it may be hamstrung. Again, both are expensive TVs and since I plan to hold on to these TVs past 5 years as I upgrade to PS 5 or Xbox Anaconda in 2021, they will both be running HDMI 2.1 but the Q90R will not. Oooops.

(3.) I don't need the extra brightness or glare reduction in my dedicated HT area. I'm a serious movie watcher, and as this is my "home theater" rig, I would like to get accurate cinematic details that ONLY an OLED delivers (and I would have bought the Sony AG9 if I not for its lackluster gaming support, ironically enough). After perusing way too many reviews of the Q90R, the number one complaint (see
) is that Samsung blasts the brightness settings and color saturation for maximum appeal to consumers/gamers shopping in brightly lit showrooms. Consequently, out of the box, movie watchers need to re-calibrate it, and even then it's impossible to get color accuracy - gamers don't care but movie watchers do. Also, I have a light controlled HT area, so the super duper panel brightness is wasted - I prefer the C9's more accurate HDR and color gamut. If this was going into my brightly lit kids play area, then definitely I would have gone with the Q90R.

(4.) What pushed my decision (but not the primary reason) to stop my research and bite the bullet yesterday is the Memorial Day promotion by LG: 15% off the 77" and 55" (Costco only but Best Buy was willing to match)

Hope this helps!
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post #164 of 178 Old 05-24-2019, 01:05 PM
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BB and burn-in

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Originally Posted by bytor99999 View Post
Hey. Guess what?

I saw the burn-in today. I went into BB to check out the tvs, yet once again, and one of the guys took me to a C8 65" LG OLED, hanging on the wall, that had burn-in. You could totally see it when the background was red. In other colors you couldn't see it at all. But I saw the purple unicorn rabbit today. It was a tree image that had burned in.

So now I am no longer a NON-believer. I was wrong.

But for some reason, now I believe the world is flat.

Thanks

Mark
My BB rep explained that ALL of their OLEDs have burn in because:
1. Blasting the brightness levels to offset showroom lighting
2. Same material playing 7 days per week with many stores not bothering shut it off? WTF

So yes, if this is the environment you're subjecting the OLED to, it will get burn in.
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Dolby Vision implementation better than HDR10+

I forgot to mention that Dolby Vision is also a game changer for dynamic HDR, but Samsung won't support it. Worse still, their implementation of HDR10+ has not been impressive. Vincent Teoh's review of both against HDR concluded that Dolby Vision is noticeably better than HDR whereas HDR10+ is not really better. It could be that HDR10+ is capable of more, but the implementation was not properly mastered, so who's at fault? Samsung. They put out a new standard and fail to teach engineers how to properly implement it? Makes sense seeing how Dolby is dedicated to the success of DV but HDR10+ was purely driven by studios wanting to save money. Hmmm, design should never be driven by cost cutting as the objective.
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post #166 of 178 Old 05-24-2019, 02:12 PM
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They all say “Sony has an advantage”, really? Those are your words.

How did Rtings rate motion on the Z9F vs Q90? No bias here as I’ve actually OWNED all of these sets. I had the Z9F and Q90 in my house for comparison at the same time and chose the Q90, because it’s the better overall set. I still have a lot of love for the Z9F though. I love my C8 as well.
I have to agree with Menarini on the motion. I have a Sony 940D and bought an 82” Samsung Q90. Sony’s motion is much better. I returned the Q90 after three days. The judder and SOE was just too much. Perhaps I am just used to a Sony picture, I don’t know.
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post #167 of 178 Old 05-24-2019, 02:47 PM
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I forgot to mention that Dolby Vision is also a game changer for dynamic HDR, but Samsung won't support it. Worse still, their implementation of HDR10+ has not been impressive. Vincent Teoh's review of both against HDR concluded that Dolby Vision is noticeably better than HDR whereas HDR10+ is not really better. It could be that HDR10+ is capable of more, but the implementation was not properly mastered, so who's at fault? Samsung. They put out a new standard and fail to teach engineers how to properly implement it? Makes sense seeing how Dolby is dedicated to the success of DV but HDR10+ was purely driven by studios wanting to save money. Hmmm, design should never be driven by cost cutting as the objective.
This year one of the biggest skeptics of Dolby Vision previously, Panasonic, did a turnaround and are supporting DV on all their tv's. A couple of years ago Panasonic said they were not interested in supporting DV, then they changed to, we're looking into the technology and this year their engineers conclude that on currently available tv technologies , both lcd and oled, Dolby Vision is an advantage. Philips also last year adopted DV . So among the major players, samsung is now the only odd one out that doesn't support DV. DV is encoded upto 4000 nits at 12 bit with dynamic metadata that adjusts the tone curve according to the scene's requirement. There is no tv out there yet that does 4000 nits for hdr highlights after calibration and has a native 12 bit panel. Until that happens, DV is relevant. Even when tv's achieve that , DV might still remain relevant because DV is spec'd upto 10000 nits (currently it's using 4000 nits, but they could use 10000 nits in future).

The decision to not support DV by samsung is that hdr10+ is their co-developed format and dolby vision requires a licensing fee to dolby. But now after samsung's exit from the blu ray player market and the other big guns like pana. and philips adopting DV, coupled with the dearth of actual content, the future of hdr10+ is looking bleak.
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post #168 of 178 Old 05-24-2019, 05:19 PM
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My BB rep explained that ALL of their OLEDs have burn in because:
1. Blasting the brightness levels to offset showroom lighting
2. Same material playing 7 days per week with many stores not bothering shut it off? WTF

So yes, if this is the environment you're subjecting the OLED to, it will get burn in.
I think just about every display C8 that I’ve seen at BB has burn in to varying degrees. Obviously, this doesn’t represent most people’s normal viewing habits, but we are only talking about 1 short year!

Call me crazy, but seeing this happening with so many C8’s makes me extremely skeptical about the longevity of current OLED panels. I do own a 55” C8, but luckily it’s my bedroom tv and only sees 3-5hrs of use per week.
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post #169 of 178 Old 05-25-2019, 01:24 PM
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This year one of the biggest skeptics of Dolby Vision previously, Panasonic, did a turnaround and are supporting DV on all their tv's. A couple of years ago Panasonic said they were not interested in supporting DV, then they changed to, we're looking into the technology and this year their engineers conclude that on currently available tv technologies , both lcd and oled, Dolby Vision is an advantage. Philips also last year adopted DV . So among the major players, samsung is now the only odd one out that doesn't support DV. DV is encoded upto 4000 nits at 12 bit with dynamic metadata that adjusts the tone curve according to the scene's requirement. There is no tv out there yet that does 4000 nits for hdr highlights after calibration and has a native 12 bit panel. Until that happens, DV is relevant. Even when tv's achieve that , DV might still remain relevant because DV is spec'd upto 10000 nits (currently it's using 4000 nits, but they could use 10000 nits in future).

The decision to not support DV by samsung is that hdr10+ is their co-developed format and dolby vision requires a licensing fee to dolby. But now after samsung's exit from the blu ray player market and the other big guns like pana. and philips adopting DV, coupled with the dearth of actual content, the future of hdr10+ is looking bleak.
Also we have no idea how far they had progressed the technology of HDR10+. Dolby have spent years developing the technology with the best engineers in the world. There was an alliance of sorts with vendor engineers who are good at implementing whether they are good at creating a standard is a completely different set of skills. If the content owners are not interested in HDR10+ than it’s dead in the water.

To be honest do we really need a competing standard for dynamic HDR?
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post #170 of 178 Old 06-06-2019, 03:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Last update.

The C9 has shown up and been in my home for just a hair under a week.

The TV was shipped perfectly by Walt's who took a couple of extra precautions to make sure the TV got to me in good condition.

A few comments;
  • The TV is remarkably light weight for its size but you need two people to manipulate due to the physical size.
  • I have noticed one instance of very slight magenta tint during a desert scene in Planet Earth. It was not enough of a distraction that I would pursue a return or exchange.
  • The stand design for the 77 is (apparently) different than the one for the smaller TVs. It does not have the cable management channel in the back and even though I'm almost positive I have it installed properly the TV leans back a bit which is annoying.
  • Still getting used to LG Magic Remote but I have swung over from hating it to having it kind of grow on me. Really should be backlit though, at least as an aftermarket upgrade...
  • EARC does not work properly to my Denon X4400. I have investigated this with LG, with Denon, have swapped cables and this appears to be a case of early adopter blues. I'm rather bummed out about it and not sure if/when they will get it sorted out.
  • I do see a lot of glare from the shiny screen on the C9 and it's exaggerated to some degree by the way the TV leans back a little on the stand. Not a deal breaker but I can see where someone who puts their set in a room with ANY ambient light might choose the Q90R just for the anti glare filter which is the best in the industry in 2019.

If I had to do it again would I still get the C9? Probably.... especially with the prices dropping so dramatically. Some guy just got one through Green Toe from an authorized dealer for $4999. Wow.
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post #171 of 178 Old 06-07-2019, 06:51 AM
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Last update.



The C9 has shown up and been in my home for just a hair under a week.



The TV was shipped perfectly by Walt's who took a couple of extra precautions to make sure the TV got to me in good condition.



A few comments;


  • The TV is remarkably light weight for its size but you need two people to manipulate due to the physical size.
  • I have noticed one instance of very slight magenta tint during a desert scene in Planet Earth. It was not enough of a distraction that I would pursue a return or exchange.
  • The stand design for the 77 is (apparently) different than the one for the smaller TVs. It does not have the cable management channel in the back and even though I'm almost positive I have it installed properly the TV leans back a bit which is annoying.
  • Still getting used to LG Magic Remote but I have swung over from hating it to having it kind of grow on me. Really should be backlit though, at least as an aftermarket upgrade...
  • EARC does not work properly to my Denon X4400. I have investigated this with LG, with Denon, have swapped cables and this appears to be a case of early adopter blues. I'm rather bummed out about it and not sure if/when they will get it sorted out.
  • I do see a lot of glare from the shiny screen on the C9 and it's exaggerated to some degree by the way the TV leans back a little on the stand. Not a deal breaker but I can see where someone who puts their set in a room with ANY ambient light might choose the Q90R just for the anti glare filter which is the best in the industry in 2019.



If I had to do it again would I still get the C9? Probably.... especially with the prices dropping so dramatically. Some guy just got one through Green Toe from an authorized dealer for $4999. Wow.
I think most of these sets are now designed to lean back slightly. All of my more recent sets, including my Q90, have that slight lean back. I shimmed the back of my tv entertainment unit up .25” to eliminate the lean. It worked like a charm.

Good to hear that you got a decent panel. Congrats! Playing the return and exchange game can get tiresome real quick. It’s kind of funny that Rtings rates the C8/C9 anti-reflection filter so highly, because my C8 reflects like mirror compared to my Q90. It’s not even in the same stratosphere, yet I believe they rate it higher than the Q90. Huh?

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post #172 of 178 Old 06-07-2019, 07:16 AM - Thread Starter
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I think most of these sets are now designed to lean back slightly. All of my more recent sets, including my Q90, have that slight lean back. I shimmed the back of my tv entertainment unit up .25” to eliminate the lean. It worked like a charm.

Good to hear that you got a decent panel. Congrats! Playing the return and exchange game can get tiresome real quick. It’s kind of funny that Rtings rates the C8/C9 anti-reflection filter so highly, because my C8 reflects like mirror compared to my Q90. It’s not even in the same stratosphere, yet I believe they rate it higher than the Q90. Huh?
I've seen photos/videos of the 65" C9 and it doesn't appear to lean at all. Possibly though LG did this as an extra safety measure with the largest screen size. Until there is a larger sample of owners it's hard to say.

My entertainment console is a very high end one from Standout Designs and it's on casters so I can roll it out from the nook it is in to rewire things. As a result I won't be able to shim it, I suppose I could remove the feet and add spacers but then I think it would look just as weird as it looks with the TV leaning back.

Another option is to shim the TV stand itself but then I have to worry about young children somehow getting it to topple forward as there is no way to secure the back of the TV to the stand without doing something like gluing a tie down anchor point to it.

Not the end of the world, just a little disappointing.

The reflectivity is better than on my Panasonic VT30 but not by a huge margin. The Q90 anti-glare filter is like a black hole and is a huge advantage to anyone putting a TV in a room where there will be not just windows but any kind of ambient light while watching.

My wife and I watched Bosch in 4K last night and after putting the C9 in Technicolor mode, dialing down the OLED light to 60 and doing a couple of other little tweaks the picture was pretty jaw dropping for out of the box. As someone who has calibrated my TVs before I know it can be better (white point not quite perfect and there are some subtle skin tone casts) but for out of the box, wow!
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post #173 of 178 Old 06-07-2019, 08:01 AM
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I've seen photos/videos of the 65" C9 and it doesn't appear to lean at all. Possibly though LG did this as an extra safety measure with the largest screen size. Until there is a larger sample of owners it's hard to say.



My entertainment console is a very high end one from Standout Designs and it's on casters so I can roll it out from the nook it is in to rewire things. As a result I won't be able to shim it, I suppose I could remove the feet and add spacers but then I think it would look just as weird as it looks with the TV leaning back.



Another option is to shim the TV stand itself but then I have to worry about young children somehow getting it to topple forward as there is no way to secure the back of the TV to the stand without doing something like gluing a tie down anchor point to it.



Not the end of the world, just a little disappointing.



The reflectivity is better than on my Panasonic VT30 but not by a huge margin. The Q90 anti-glare filter is like a black hole and is a huge advantage to anyone putting a TV in a room where there will be not just windows but any kind of ambient light while watching.



My wife and I watched Bosch in 4K last night and after putting the C9 in Technicolor mode, dialing down the OLED light to 60 and doing a couple of other little tweaks the picture was pretty jaw dropping for out of the box. As someone who has calibrated my TVs before I know it can be better (white point not quite perfect and there are some subtle skin tone casts) but for out of the box, wow!
If you only have to shim your entertainment unit ~.25” like I did, it’s hardly noticeable. If I didn’t know about it being shimmed, I would never question it tbh. Maybe give it a try.

My OCD kills me with these types of things. Seeing the tv leaning back was driving me crazy. Not only that, the bottom of my tv is already at eye level, so having a slight lean back at that height makes it look worse, and even more-so again from off angle.

Samsung 82” Q90R * Denon X4500H * 5.2.4 Atmos * Xbox One X * PS4 Pro
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If you only have to shim your entertainment unit ~.25” like I did, it’s hardly noticeable. If I didn’t know about it being shimmed, I would never question it tbh. Maybe give it a try.

My OCD kills me with these types of things. Seeing the tv leaning back was driving me crazy. Not only that, the bottom of my tv is already at eye level, so having a slight lean back at that height makes it look worse, and even more-so again from off angle.
It would be more than .25" considering that the TV is leaning back a full 3-4 degrees.
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post #175 of 178 Old 06-07-2019, 08:14 AM
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It would be more than .25" considering that the TV is leaning back a full 3-4 degrees.
Wow, that’s a substantial amount of lean!

Mine was probably only 1-2 degrees, but now I have ~1 degree of forward lean.

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post #176 of 178 Old 06-07-2019, 08:25 AM
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If you only have to shim your entertainment unit ~.25” like I did, it’s hardly noticeable. If I didn’t know about it being shimmed, I would never question it tbh. Maybe give it a try.

My OCD kills me with these types of things. Seeing the tv leaning back was driving me crazy. Not only that, the bottom of my tv is already at eye level, so having a slight lean back at that height makes it look worse, and even more-so again from off angle.


I find that 2 furniture sliders placed in the back of the stand work great for eliminating the lean back. Or you can take a a blue racquetball and cut a couple of small dish-shaped pieces and stick them under the back corners of the tv stand. Racquetballs work better because you can cut them down to size depending on the degree of lean back.
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post #177 of 178 Old 06-15-2019, 06:03 AM
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Hi.... The C9 got great reviews but OLED is still quite pricey at 77".. We should be comparing OLED's to other OLED's.... And LCD's with other LCD's just to be fair.... It's like comparing an Electric car with a gas car.. OLED and LCD are both, two very different technologies..... Both have their own strengths and weaknesses.. Just Purchase which ever one you can afford.. There both very good TVs and are sure to please. 😀
But 65 inch LG C9 OLED is actually cheaper? Don't understand price jump of 77'' OLEDS!
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But 65 inch LG C9 OLED is actually cheaper? Don't understand price jump of 77'' OLEDS!
There is currently limited production capacity of the 77” panels.
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