TCL 8 Series Quantum Dot "MINI-LED's"....OLED Killers ? - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 115 Old 04-17-2019, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by SiGGy View Post
Ya, good point. However I think you might be comparing the full stack light loss. My understanding that most of the light loss was in the color filters not the LCD itself. So I'm not sure what the panel loss % is on a transparent 2KLCD. Also not sure how they do the polarizing layers on the monochrome 2KLCD. Be interesting to see how the stack is done.
It wouldn't be surprising at all that adding the 2nd colorless LCD would take a 2.5% transmission stack down to .75%.

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post #32 of 115 Old 04-18-2019, 06:27 PM - Thread Starter
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The future looks bright!

Hisense ULED XD !

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post #33 of 115 Old 04-19-2019, 04:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by PUNKem 733 View Post
I think we all need to stop with these "OLED" killer threads.


https://www.ign.com/boards/threads/h...ool.455283953/
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post #34 of 115 Old 04-19-2019, 08:47 AM - Thread Starter
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The Hisense ULED XD will be coming to the USA in 2020 !

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post #35 of 115 Old 04-19-2019, 09:42 AM
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An interesting thought occurred to me.... The Atari 2600 had a resolution of 160x192... That's over 30,000 pixels.

And we know what those games lookes like.

That's 30,000 pixel resolution.

Makes me think 1000 backlights on a 4k set really isn't all that granular


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post #36 of 115 Old 04-19-2019, 05:04 PM
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I never trust hisense with release dates. Those dudes are the ultimate teasers.
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post #37 of 115 Old 04-19-2019, 05:10 PM
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I never trust hisense with release dates. Those dudes are the ultimate teasers.
I never trust Hisense, period.
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post #38 of 115 Old 04-19-2019, 07:01 PM
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Any info on what sizes these will come in?

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post #39 of 115 Old 04-20-2019, 12:29 AM
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Originally Posted by ES_Revenge View Post
LOL what? Quantum dot or "QLED" sets are still LCDs. Just like when LED-lit TVs came out and brainiacs at marketing departments : cough : Samsung : cough : decided to call them "LED TVs" and then people thought these were somehow not LCDs, they're doing the same thing again


So-called QLED sets are still LCDs.

https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/by...vs-oled-vs-led


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_dot_display

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantu...m_dot_displays


Emphases added in quotes above.


Now microLED OTOH, that's actually a different display type, as is OLED. But all of this other nonsense ("LED TV", quantum whatever, "QLED", mini LCD, etc.), whatever the marketing folks want to call them notwithstanding, are LCD panels.
I don't know what you are laughing at since I purposely said former QLED owner and stated the LCDS can't compete with oled. You went on this big explanation for something that's common knowledge. Below is a review I made last summer and you can clearly hear me saying calling it an Lcd tv.



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post #40 of 115 Old 04-20-2019, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Bahn Yuki View Post
I don't know what you are laughing at since I purposely said former QLED owner and stated the LCDS can't compete with oled. You went on this big explanation for something that's common knowledge. Below is a review I made last summer and you can clearly hear me saying calling it an Lcd tv.
And if you read the other posts on the thread you would realise that someone else pointed out the same thing, and I did say that it was possible that's what you meant but it wasn't how I read it at the time. I do apologise for the misunderstanding nonetheless.


Keep in mind what is "common knowledge" to you and I, is not exactly common knowledge when you realise the fact is most people do not know that an "LED TV" is an LCD (I've had to explain this to countless people in the real world, who even after explanation still don't get it--thank the marketers for this crap). There are likely even more people that believe "QLED" is something different yet again. Well it is different but it's still an LCD TV.
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post #41 of 115 Old 04-20-2019, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by ES_Revenge View Post
And if you read the other posts on the thread you would realise that someone else pointed out the same thing, and I did say that it was possible that's what you meant but it wasn't how I read it at the time. I do apologise for the misunderstanding nonetheless.


Keep in mind what is "common knowledge" to you and I, is not exactly common knowledge when you realise the fact is most people do not know that an "LED TV" is an LCD (I've had to explain this to countless people in the real world, who even after explanation still don't get it--thank the marketers for this crap). There are likely even more people that believe "QLED" is something different yet again. Well it is different but it's still an LCD TV.
Apology accepted. I wound up selling the Q8 due to being inferior to oled for movie watching and inferior to CRT for gaming.

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post #42 of 115 Old 04-22-2019, 06:51 PM
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the 8 series is not available in the us is it?
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post #43 of 115 Old 04-24-2019, 08:29 AM
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the 8 series is not available in the us is it?
Not yet. Pricing isn't announced yet either. It was previewed in-person in January, so it shouldn't be too far away...

The 6-series was released in May last year, right? So the 8 shouldn't be too far off. I've been waiting trying to decide on a 75" TCL 6-series or a 75" Sony X900F (comes down to whether I want to pay extra to avoid the panel lottery and get better reflection handling).

Looks like I'm gonna wait another 6 weeks, just in case the 75" 8-series comes in around $2400 or so... that seems optimistic given 8K and mini-LED techs... but it is TCL after all!!
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post #44 of 115 Old 04-24-2019, 01:43 PM
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I just hope it supports vrr and has low input delay

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post #45 of 115 Old 04-29-2019, 05:49 PM
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So I found two articles with linked videos by sites that suggest that the 8 series will have a 55 and 65 inch TV set which is 4k, not 8k, as the bottom of the lineup. I'm very interested in these sets as an entry into mini leds and quantum dots without the accompanying price and size issue with the larger 75 inch sets. One is cordcutternews and the other is joelsterg4k. No one else mentions the 4k versions, however both of these have specific video of them looking at these suggested sets, and they have different stands (center weighted instead of two legs) and specifically mention their 8 series (not 6 series) designation.


Has anyone else heard about this? Anyone fortunate to be at CES and can verify that these sets they profile are mini LED, or upgraded 6 series? Very curious I think, maybe worth the extra over the 6 series 55 inch set.

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post #46 of 115 Old 04-29-2019, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by phaet2112 View Post
So I found two articles with linked videos by sites that suggest that the 8 series will have a 55 and 65 inch TV set which is 4k, not 8k, as the bottom of the lineup. I'm very interested in these sets as an entry into mini leds and quantum dots without the accompanying price and size issue with the larger 75 inch sets. One is cordcutternews and the other is joelsterg4k. No one else mentions the 4k versions, however both of these have specific video of them looking at these suggested sets, and they have different stands (center weighted instead of two legs) and specifically mention their 8 series (not 6 series) designation.

cordcutternews youtube link
joelster youtube link 2:03 sec

Has anyone else heard about this? Anyone fortunate to be at CES and can verify that these sets they profile are mini LED, or upgraded 6 series? Very curious I think, maybe worth the extra over the 6 series 55 inch set.
Yeah techradar said the same thing from an article back during CES when speaking on the 8 series.
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post #48 of 115 Old 04-30-2019, 07:05 AM
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First post 20 year lurker.


I cant seem to find detailed information on mini-led. They are claiming 1000 dimming zones with 20 thousand led's. How does this work exactly? For example lets say 1 dimming zone has 10 led's in it, Do all those led's either turn on or off or can they be manipulated individually? If the answer is yes there will be a huge difference in contrast if it's no there wont be a dramatic difference between current FALD sets.



Nonetheless these are very exciting times in TV technology.
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post #49 of 115 Old 04-30-2019, 07:32 AM
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First post 20 year lurker.


I cant seem to find detailed information on mini-led. They are claiming 1000 dimming zones with 20 thousand led's. How does this work exactly? For example lets say 1 dimming zone has 10 led's in it, Do all those led's either turn on or off or can they be manipulated individually? If the answer is yes there will be a huge difference in contrast if it's no there wont be a dramatic difference between current FALD sets.



Nonetheless these are very exciting times in TV technology.
Those are tiny LEDs and because of that a zone with 10 tiny LEDs in it is much much smaller than current and past zones in a FALD...more comparable to the sony ZD9 in which each LED is a zone. Claims are miniLED LCD improved contrast ratio, increasing color gamut, reducing response time, and increasing brightness.
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post #50 of 115 Old 04-30-2019, 07:47 AM
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Just waiting for Sony to either come with a consumer dual panel or mini-LED display before I probably buy another TV.
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post #51 of 115 Old 04-30-2019, 08:11 AM
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Just waiting for Sony to either come with a consumer dual panel or mini-LED display before I probably buy another TV.

Same here. There is no reason to buy a tv right now unless you absolutely need it or the pitfalls of oled are not an issue to you.


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Those are tiny LEDs and because of that a zone with 10 tiny LEDs in it is much much smaller than current and past zones in a FALD...more comparable to the sony ZD9 in which each LED is a zone. Claims are miniLED LCD improved contrast ratio, increasing color gamut, reducing response time, and increasing brightness.

I understand the capabilities of the technology but I feel like what you are talking about is years away. Mini-Led will have the capability of cramming thousands of zones into the panel for very precise light control. My question is trying to understand how these first gen units will operate. Will we have control of the ten thousand mini-led's individually or will they operate as a zone? Meaning will 1 zone shut off all 10 led's or will it be able to control individual led's within the zone. I think each zone will operate as a single unit regardless the amount of led's in that zone. If I am correct this probably means we wont see a huge difference until they increase capacity and up the actual zones.
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post #52 of 115 Old 04-30-2019, 09:09 AM
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Same here. There is no reason to buy a tv right now unless you absolutely need it or the pitfalls of oled are not an issue to you.





I understand the capabilities of the technology but I feel like what you are talking about is years away. Mini-Led will have the capability of cramming thousands of zones into the panel for very precise light control. My question is trying to understand how these first gen units will operate. Will we have control of the ten thousand mini-led's individually or will they operate as a zone? Meaning will 1 zone shut off all 10 led's or will it be able to control individual led's within the zone. I think each zone will operate as a single unit regardless the amount of led's in that zone. If I am correct this probably means we wont see a huge difference until they increase capacity and up the actual zones.
I do not believe there ever was a FALD with LED control within a zone, there was the ZD9 though were each LED is a zone. And it looks like these miniLED zones size will be kind a like the ZD9 zone sizes.

It depends on the size of zones difference which could be considerable. In case a 10 miniLED zone is as big as 2 LEDs in a LED FALD zone LED control within a zone becomes irrelevant.


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post #53 of 115 Old 04-30-2019, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by KD8118 View Post
Same here. There is no reason to buy a tv right now unless you absolutely need it or the pitfalls of oled are not an issue to you.





I understand the capabilities of the technology but I feel like what you are talking about is years away. Mini-Led will have the capability of cramming thousands of zones into the panel for very precise light control. My question is trying to understand how these first gen units will operate. Will we have control of the ten thousand mini-led's individually or will they operate as a zone? Meaning will 1 zone shut off all 10 led's or will it be able to control individual led's within the zone. I think each zone will operate as a single unit regardless the amount of led's in that zone. If I am correct this probably means we wont see a huge difference until they increase capacity and up the actual zones.

I wouldn't think you could control individual lights in a zone as that's what the term refers to. Each zone is a directly controllable area.


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post #54 of 115 Old 04-30-2019, 09:22 AM
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Got excited, then I saw it was 8K??? Sigh, would love to see a higher end TCL that is still "affordable".

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post #55 of 115 Old 04-30-2019, 11:03 AM
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I appreciate all the responses and I have a better understanding.



Mini Led will be a lot more similar to a Sony high count Fald display that's currently available in terms of picture quality. We will truly see the benefits of this technology when the manufacturing cost comes down and they cram thousands of zones within a display. There are monitors coming out this year that will have 1000 zones in a 32 inch panel, We will see a drastic improvement in those monitors. It will be the equivalent of having 4,000 dimming zones in a 65 inch tv.


Furthermore I feel like the dual lcd panel solution can really disrupt this industry. If it actually works they will have an affordable solution that gives you oled level blacks with the versatility of lcd.
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post #56 of 115 Old 05-08-2019, 11:56 AM
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Furthermore I feel like the dual lcd panel solution can really disrupt this industry. If it actually works they will have an affordable solution that gives you oled level blacks with the versatility of lcd.
The transmittance of the total stack was a bit surprising to me:
https://www.displaydaily.com/index.p...ily-2019-05-07

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post #57 of 115 Old 05-08-2019, 12:45 PM
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I don't think comparing OLED to LCD ever makes sense. Two completely different technologies that aren't set up to do exactly what the other can/can't. They can both produce spectacular images, but both still require certain conditions to perform at near-perfection levels.

The important thing is that these and other technologies push performance so we all get better options at all purchase levels. Budget shouldn't mean crappy. It should mean best to what this technology and price category can offer. Oleds are incredible in low-light environments where no-light blacks stand out. OLED would be my choice IF I wanted to do a no-cost home theater. LCDs look better in most lighted conditions where it's imperfections are less noticeable. IMO, LCDs work well in rooms where they're lighted, multi-purpose rooms that are for everyday living.

If TCL or any other maker puts out a 75" 8k mini/micro at under $2500, that would be a welcome surprise. It would also make it hard for existing 75-82" very good sets (ahem Q8/Q9 and 900/950XF) to not see price drops into the sub $1500 range.

I don't expect OLED prices to fall as quickly though because there may not be enough parts makers to drive that market down.
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post #58 of 115 Old 05-08-2019, 03:16 PM
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... Oleds are incredible in low-light environments where no-light blacks stand out. OLED would be my choice IF I wanted to do a no-cost home theater. LCDs look better in most lighted conditions where it's imperfections are less noticeable. IMO, LCDs work well in rooms where they're lighted, multi-purpose rooms that are for everyday living. ....
The same thing applies to projectors. Those who want to view video projection with some ambient light in the room are best served by projectors that sacrifice inky blacks for maximum lumens and those who want to view in the dark are best served by projectors that sacrifice maximum lumens for inky blacks. It's an either-or choice because you can't get both in a single projector.
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post #59 of 115 Old 05-09-2019, 09:54 AM
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The transmittance of the total stack was a bit surprising to me:

From what I have gathered it seems like the biggest issue is the video processing between the two panels. Several companies had prototypes of this technology for years now. I'm still hesitant that this will work as a company like Panasonic couldn't solve this problem.


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I don't think comparing OLED to LCD ever makes sense. Two completely different technologies that aren't set up to do exactly what the other can/can't. They can both produce spectacular images, but both still require certain conditions to perform at near-perfection levels.

The important thing is that these and other technologies push performance so we all get better options at all purchase levels. Budget shouldn't mean crappy. It should mean best to what this technology and price category can offer. Oleds are incredible in low-light environments where no-light blacks stand out. OLED would be my choice IF I wanted to do a no-cost home theater. LCDs look better in most lighted conditions where it's imperfections are less noticeable. IMO, LCDs work well in rooms where they're lighted, multi-purpose rooms that are for everyday living.

If TCL or any other maker puts out a 75" 8k mini/micro at under $2500, that would be a welcome surprise. It would also make it hard for existing 75-82" very good sets (ahem Q8/Q9 and 900/950XF) to not see price drops into the sub $1500 range.

I don't expect OLED prices to fall as quickly though because there may not be enough parts makers to drive that market down.

I feel like if this actually works it will give you the best of both worlds. The only thing favoring OLED at this point will be panel thickness. In my opinion this will be the holy grail!
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post #60 of 115 Old 05-09-2019, 01:20 PM
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The only thing favoring OLED at this point will be panel thickness. In my opinion this will be the holy grail!
This would make going back to edge lighting more feasible so thickness might be mitigated a bit by that. I dunno about the holy grail part but it certainly seems like it would be very competitive with OLED (in the sizes OLED are made at) and be an almost no brainer when compared to projection applications <100". For me, this might be the in-betweener upgrade while I'm waiting for micro-LEDs to be produced at scale.

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