TCL 8 Series Quantum Dot "MINI-LED's"....OLED Killers ? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 94 Old 04-13-2019, 07:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Thumbs up TCL 8 Series Quantum Dot "MINI-LED's"....OLED Killers ?

I can't wait until these tvs come on the market later this year!

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post #2 of 94 Old 04-13-2019, 07:52 AM
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There is Trademark Samsung miniled grid Maybe it be next LCD TV Revolution

They also have QD Glass under development

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post #3 of 94 Old 04-13-2019, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Brho0m13 View Post
There is Trademark Samsung miniled grid Maybe it be next LCD TV Revolution

They also have QD Glass under development



I'm definitely interested in this... I feel like there will still be visible blooming in things like credits but without risk of burn in that's huge.

I hope they improve their reflection handling

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post #4 of 94 Old 04-13-2019, 08:58 AM
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I think we all need to stop with these "OLED" killer threads.
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post #5 of 94 Old 04-13-2019, 02:39 PM
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I think we all need to stop with these "OLED" killer threads.
Amen!

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post #6 of 94 Old 04-13-2019, 03:14 PM
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post #7 of 94 Old 04-13-2019, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by PUNKem 733 View Post
I think we all need to stop with these "OLED" killer threads.


The real OLED killer is burn in


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post #8 of 94 Old 04-13-2019, 08:08 PM
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The real OLED killer is burn in


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True lol I don't think OLED is the be all, end all, but a LCD is only killing an OLED in brightness.
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post #9 of 94 Old 04-14-2019, 06:04 AM - Thread Starter
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post #10 of 94 Old 04-14-2019, 06:10 AM
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True lol I don't think OLED is the be all, end all, but a LCD is only killing an OLED in brightness.
Brightness, cost, reliability, 82"+ size options, much greater technological progression each year, and much greater competition and variety of choices and options. LCD already killed OLED for me because I want a 80+' TV without selling my house- show me the live deal?
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I doubt it's an "OLED Killer", but it's very likely going to be my next television. As an OLED and a former QLED owner, the LCDs can't hold a candle. Oh in this case it's all they can do.
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post #12 of 94 Old 04-14-2019, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Grimbor View Post
Brightness, cost, reliability, 82"+ size options, much greater technological progression each year, and much greater competition and variety of choices and options. LCD already killed OLED for me because I want a 80+' TV without selling my house- show me the live deal?
I know, but I didn't want to rile up the OLED lovers on this forum. I've seen what can happen.
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post #13 of 94 Old 04-15-2019, 06:12 AM
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IMO Hisense has it right with their design (also done by high end professional grading monitors). Get rid of the FALD completely and just do another grayscale 1080P panel behind the 4K or 8K panel. 2M zones of dimming...

HiSense ULED XD

https://www.engadget.com/2019/01/07/hisense-ces-2019/

Now we just need them to make it and as well sell their high end models in the US. Hisense has only sent budget/mid grade TV(s) to the US thus far...


Although these micro LED displays do look interesting... cost/performance wise I'm not sure.
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post #14 of 94 Old 04-15-2019, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by PUNKem 733 View Post
I think we all need to stop with these "OLED" killer threads.
Yep. OLEDs do a good job of killing themselves.
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post #15 of 94 Old 04-15-2019, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by SiGGy View Post
IMO Hisense has it right with their design (also done by high end professional grading monitors). Get rid of the FALD completely and just do another grayscale 1080P panel behind the 4K or 8K panel. 2M zones of dimming...



HiSense ULED XD



https://www.engadget.com/2019/01/07/hisense-ces-2019/



Now we just need them to make it and as well sell their high end models in the US. Hisense has only sent budget/mid grade TV(s) to the US thus far...





Although these micro LED displays do look interesting... cost/performance wise I'm not sure.


The article seems to say it is fald and dual LCD.

Doesn't adding a second panel reduce brightness?


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I bet these 8K sets will do a better job of upscaling than these 4K sets are doing!
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post #17 of 94 Old 04-15-2019, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by SiGGy View Post
IMO Hisense has it right with their design (also done by high end professional grading monitors). Get rid of the FALD completely and just do another grayscale 1080P panel behind the 4K or 8K panel. 2M zones of dimming...

HiSense ULED XD

https://www.engadget.com/2019/01/07/hisense-ces-2019/

Now we just need them to make it and as well sell their high end models in the US. Hisense has only sent budget/mid grade TV(s) to the US thus far...


Although these micro LED displays do look interesting... cost/performance wise I'm not sure.
It's great to have two emerging technologies like Mini LED and ULED XD challenging OLED. Nothing like good old-fashioned competition to help raise performance and lower cost to consumers. Right now it's not predictable what breakthroughs there might be in the performance and production cost areas of the three different technologies that will ultimately give one an edge over the others.
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post #18 of 94 Old 04-15-2019, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Devedander View Post
The article seems to say it is fald and dual LCD.

Doesn't adding a second panel reduce brightness?


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yes, it does reduce brightness. But with today's LED's it's not a concern.

Not FALD as we know it today; it's just direct backlighting with no dimming; even an edge lit setup would work to produce stunning blacks. The 1080P LCD panel is between the lights/diffusor and the 4K/8K panel. It acts as the FALD portion. Each 1080p pixel is equal to one FALD backlight (making it have 2M zones). It's basically a black and white 1080p image prefilter.

This is nothing new, high end grading panels have been doing this for awhile now. It's just the 1st time someone has teased the idea to consumers.
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post #19 of 94 Old 04-15-2019, 08:14 AM
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yes, it does reduce brightness. But with today's LED's it's not a concern.



Not FALD as we know it today; it's just direct backlighting with no dimming; even an edge lit setup would work to produce stunning blacks. The 1080P LCD panel is between the lights/diffusor and the 4K/8K panel. It acts as the FALD portion. Each 1080p pixel is equal to one FALD backlight (making it have 2M zones). It's basically a black and white 1080p image prefilter.



This is nothing new, high end grading panels have been doing this for awhile now. It's just the 1st time someone has teased the idea to consumers.


Seems according to this section is actually dimmed leds also- "actually be looking at both a dimmed LED source and a B&W image"

I like the idea and am interesting... Wonder what the cost does to have two panels especially at the larger sizes we're seeing today.


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post #20 of 94 Old 04-15-2019, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Devedander View Post
Seems according to this section is actually dimmed leds also- "actually be looking at both a dimmed LED source and a B&W image"

I like the idea and am interesting... Wonder what the cost does to have two panels especially at the larger sizes we're seeing today.


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Crazy, your're right. So basically this is FALD taken to the next level... sub-zones of the larger zones
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post #21 of 94 Old 04-15-2019, 11:21 AM
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LCD's are always trying to be wannabee oled killers but they never end up being that. QLED was supposed to be an oled killer, now it's tcl with the mini led's? Dont get too excited hearing mini led's , it wont have 10000 individual led's or something, i read somewhere tcl would have a grid of a thousand mini led's, tcl targets its tv's for the budget market, they would keep their costs in check. i dont see it being an oled killer or being comparable to oled in a light controlled room.
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post #22 of 94 Old 04-15-2019, 06:30 PM
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I doubt it's an "OLED Killer", but it's very likely going to be my next television. As an OLED and a former QLED owner, the LCDs can't hold a candle. Oh in this case it's all they can do.
LOL what? Quantum dot or "QLED" sets are still LCDs. Just like when LED-lit TVs came out and brainiacs at marketing departments : cough : Samsung : cough : decided to call them "LED TVs" and then people thought these were somehow not LCDs, they're doing the same thing again


So-called QLED sets are still LCDs.
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Originally Posted by Rtings
What is QLED?
QLED is a marketing name used by Samsung to describe their newer LED TVs. They use traditional LCD panels lit using LEDs. Between the LCD layer and the backlight, a filter with energy reactive nano-particles filters the light to produce more pure and saturated colors.
https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/by...vs-oled-vs-led
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Originally Posted by Wikipedia
As of 2018, all commercial products, such as LCD TVs using quantum dots and branded as QLED, use photo-emissive particles
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_dot_display
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Originally Posted by Wikipedia
A conventional color liquid crystal display (LCD) is usually backlit by fluorescent lamps (CCFLs) or conventional white LEDs that are color filtered to produce red, green, and blue pixels. Quantum dot displays use blue-emitting LEDs rather than white LEDs as the light sources. The converting part of the emitted light is converted into pure green and red light by the corresponding color quantum dots placed in front of the blue LED or using a quantum dot infused diffuser sheet in the backlight optical stack. Blank pixels are also used to allow the blue LED light to still generate blue hues. This type of white light as the backlight of an LCD panel allows for the best color gamut at lower cost than an RGB LED combination using three LEDs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantu...m_dot_displays


Emphases added in quotes above.


Now microLED OTOH, that's actually a different display type, as is OLED. But all of this other nonsense ("LED TV", quantum whatever, "QLED", mini LCD, etc.), whatever the marketing folks want to call them notwithstanding, are LCD panels.
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post #23 of 94 Old 04-15-2019, 06:36 PM
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LOL what? Quantum dot or "QLED" sets are still LCDs. Just like when LED-lit TVs came out and brainiacs at marketing departments : cough : Samsung : cough : decided to call them "LED TVs" and then people thought these were somehow not LCDs, they're doing the same thing again


So-called QLED sets are still LCDs.

https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/by...vs-oled-vs-led


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_dot_display

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantu...m_dot_displays


Emphases added in quotes above.


Now microLED OTOH, that's actually a different display type, as is OLED. But all of this other nonsense ("LED TV", quantum whatever, "QLED", mini LCD, etc.), whatever the marketing folks want to call them notwithstanding, are LCD panels.


I think his point was that even qled, the newest LCD tech, wasn't as good as his OLED.

I think he mentioned both to give credit to his opinion.


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Originally Posted by Bahn Yuki View Post
I doubt it's an "OLED Killer", but it's very likely going to be my next television. As an OLED and a former QLED owner, the LCDs can't hold a candle. Oh in this case it's all they can do.
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I think his point was that even qled, the newest LCD tech, wasn't as good as his OLED.

I think he mentioned both to give credit to his opinion.
Ah I see. Yeah that's possible. I read it as him saying "OLED and QLED are better than LCD" while QLED of course actually is LCD.

OLED has its issues as well though and though I always had envisioned "buying an OLED one day" (you know like back when Sony had that 11" one for like $5k or whatever lol), over time my opinion has definitely changed and I'm not much interested in OLED as a TV screen. On devices like phones, PS Vita, etc. it seems fine, but on a TV? Not so much. Not really willing to risk burn-in on such a large, expensive device with an expected lifespan of at least a decade (for me anyway).

I could have easily spend some extra money and bought an C8/E8 which is surely trumpeted as "the best TV ever tested on Rtings" and whatnot, but. I chose to go with a Z9D (of course not at the insane original retail prices, but at a price which was relatively cheap). TBH I'm not much interested in OLED TVs at the moment. Micro LED seems quite interesting but that is probably in the more distant future, perhaps whenever I end up getting an 8K set (another 10+ years I'd say).

While there are distinct advantages and disadvantages to every display type currently available, including the sub-types within it, what I've learned about LCDs over the years is that they are incredibly versatile. To me plasma was always a one-trick-wonder, and OLED nearly the same. LCDs are great for a wide variety of content and application within a particular display; and, there's quite a few types of LCDs in general (e.g. TN, IPS, VA, and then all the lighting types/techs) and that also makes for a wide variety of price points, applications, and displays for various devices. Say what you want about LCD but there's no denying it's probably the definitive display technology of our lifetimes. I'm still quite happy with LCD and despite some of its disadvantages (DSE being the most noticeable) I'm quite happy with my new Z9D so far Also pretty fine with the other three LCD TVs in my house, and the various LCD PC monitors, laptops, tablets, phones, car head units, etc. I have.
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First hands on review of the TCL Mini-LED 8-series Quantum Dot 8K TV



https://www.techradar.com/reviews/tc...k-qled-roku-tv
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post #26 of 94 Old 04-16-2019, 05:50 AM
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First hands on review of the TCL Mini-LED 8-series Quantum Dot 8K TV



https://www.techradar.com/reviews/tc...k-qled-roku-tv

Your idea of a review is much different then mine
"From the showroom floor..." Typical TechRadar puff piece with marketing sprinkles.
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post #27 of 94 Old 04-16-2019, 06:09 AM
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This is why I mentioned the Hisense ULED XD. It's basically making a 2M zone FALD but without the need for 2M LED(s). IMO this is the best approach cost/performance wise.

My understanding is the ULED XD is suppose to come close to .001 nits black with the dual LCD panel design; however this is hearsay from CES. So, uh, ya...
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post #28 of 94 Old 04-16-2019, 10:00 AM
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This is why I mentioned the Hisense ULED XD. It's basically making a 2M zone FALD but without the need for 2M LED(s). IMO this is the best approach cost/performance wise.



My understanding is the ULED XD is suppose to come close to .001 nits black with the dual LCD panel design; however this is hearsay from CES. So, uh, ya...


Yeah the argument will always be that LCD can't block 100% of the light so even if you stack multiple you get closer but not true black.

How much that matters in anything but a pitch black room on specific scenes would be my question.


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post #29 of 94 Old 04-17-2019, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SiGGy View Post
This is why I mentioned the Hisense ULED XD. It's basically making a 2M zone FALD but without the need for 2M LED(s). IMO this is the best approach cost/performance wise.

My understanding is the ULED XD is suppose to come close to .001 nits black with the dual LCD panel design; however this is hearsay from CES. So, uh, ya...
Haven't read the Hisense thread but: I am deeply skeptical of cost/performance. Stacking a color filtered 4K LCD on top of a colorless 2KLCD still knocks down transmission significantly since it is a (%transmission) X (%transmission). That means the backlight needs to be 5x to 20x brighter which entails varied combinations of higher LED counts and energy usage per LED. It's either going to be a higher up front cost for more LEDs and/or higher operating costs because of more power consumption (my own cynicism emphasizes the and possibility). The energy to drive that 2nd LCD itself will not be insignificant either. I'd speculate mastering monitors that use this kind of setup don't reach the 65-75" sizing levels so upfront costs and BTU impact on mastering suites are acceptable from a business case perspective. Mini-LED backlights seem to be more effective than a 2nd LCD.

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post #30 of 94 Old 04-17-2019, 09:20 AM
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Haven't read the Hisense thread but: I am deeply skeptical of cost/performance. Stacking a color filtered 4K LCD on top of a colorless 2KLCD still knocks down transmission significantly since it is a (%transmission) X (%transmission). That means the backlight needs to be 5x to 20x brighter which entails varied combinations of higher LED counts and energy usage per LED. It's either going to be a higher up front cost for more LEDs and/or higher operating costs because of more power consumption (my own cynicism emphasizes the and possibility). The energy to drive that 2nd LCD itself will not be insignificant either. I'd speculate mastering monitors that use this kind of setup don't reach the 65-75" sizing levels so upfront costs and BTU impact on mastering suites are acceptable from a business case perspective. Mini-LED backlights seem to be more effective than a 2nd LCD.

Ya, good point. However I think you might be comparing the full stack light loss. My understanding that most of the light loss was in the color filters not the LCD itself. So I'm not sure what the panel loss % is on a transparent 2KLCD. Also not sure how they do the polarizing layers on the monochrome 2KLCD. Be interesting to see how the stack is done.
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