With 8K TVs, More Pixels Make a Better Picture - Page 5 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 234Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #121 of 193 Old 05-12-2019, 08:13 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Star56's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: In my armed redoubt deep in the mountains of northern Ohio
Posts: 3,714
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 166 Post(s)
Liked: 122
Losers and your 8K.

Haven't you seen the wonderful side by side photos they used to sell you 720p vs 480P? They would blur and fuzz the 480P photo so much that it was unrecognizable as video.

Then they did the same with 720P vs 1080P. The 720P video photo was all jagged and blurry. You don't want that!! Get 1080P!!

Then they had the side by side photos of 1080P and 4K. 1080P looking all jaggggggged and fuzzzzzy. You don't want that!! Get 4K!!

Now they will do the same with 4K vs 8K!! Look at ALL THOSE JAGGIES IN THE 4K VIDEO!!! LOOK HOW NASTY AND BLURRY IT LOOKS! YOU WANT 8K!!!

Then they will do it with 8K vs 16K!! Look at all those JAGGIES in 8K!!!! Finally we can play video games in 16K WITH NO JAGGIES!!!!!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!
THX1720 and zisince32 like this.

42" in the dining room. 50" in the bedroom. 86" in the living room. 65" in the family room. 70" in the family room. 106" in the family room "This is the voice of world control" Video Modes:EDTV-XGA-HDTV-4K HDR
Star56 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #122 of 193 Old 05-13-2019, 02:41 PM
Member
 
Trixter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 70
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 20
I work in analog video transcoding and restoration. I almost never deliver an upscaled file to a customer unless they require a specific delivery target, because you simply cannot create detail where there isn't any in the original signal.

There's no magical process that can give something more detail than what exists in the source material. Maybe in 30 years we'll have realtime machine learning systems that can take a frame, recognize everything in it, and synthesize a higher-resolution output frame using higher-res assets at 60fps, but we're nowhere near that with today's scalers (both software and hardware).
mike_carton likes this.
Trixter is offline  
post #123 of 193 Old 05-13-2019, 03:01 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
NuSoardGraphite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Tucson AZ
Posts: 2,568
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 510 Post(s)
Liked: 477
Quote:
Originally Posted by Star56 View Post
Losers and your 8K.

Haven't you seen the wonderful side by side photos they used to sell you 720p vs 480P? They would blur and fuzz the 480P photo so much that it was unrecognizable as video.

Then they did the same with 720P vs 1080P. The 720P video photo was all jagged and blurry. You don't want that!! Get 1080P!!

Then they had the side by side photos of 1080P and 4K. 1080P looking all jaggggggged and fuzzzzzy. You don't want that!! Get 4K!!

Now they will do the same with 4K vs 8K!! Look at ALL THOSE JAGGIES IN THE 4K VIDEO!!! LOOK HOW NASTY AND BLURRY IT LOOKS! YOU WANT 8K!!!

Then they will do it with 8K vs 16K!! Look at all those JAGGIES in 8K!!!! Finally we can play video games in 16K WITH NO JAGGIES!!!!!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!
I would just tell people to do the math:

1920 x 1080 = 2,073,600 pixels

3840 x 2160 = 8,294,400 pixels

7680 x 4320 = 33,177,600 pixels

Pretty simple really.

The only question is at what screen size does the pixel count no longer matter.

Stand tall and shake the heavens...
NuSoardGraphite is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #124 of 193 Old 05-13-2019, 03:10 PM
Senior Member
 
HDPERSON's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 301
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRAC View Post
Sorry...but this whole 8K AI upscaling nonsense makes me laugh.

Reminds me of the old saying...”you can’t polish a turd”.

I agree with you. I saw the 8K at Magnolia in the Best Buy store. The store was playing an 8K picture. I told the salesman to play a 4K picture, then a 4K Blu Ray and a Blu Ray and finally DVD and compared the results next to a 4K TV. The 4K looked the same as the 8K, except with the DVD and it looked worst. Being an elite customer they were happy to give me what I wanted. I told the salesman it was a waste of money and he said to me in private that he agreed.

The only thing that was positive was the playing of the 8K video and watching it from 10 feet away made it look like 3D.
HDPERSON is offline  
post #125 of 193 Old 05-13-2019, 03:14 PM - Thread Starter
Mark Henninger
 
imagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 16,082
Mentioned: 441 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9162 Post(s)
Liked: 16159
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDPERSON View Post
I agree with you. I saw the 8K at Magnolia in the Best Buy store. The store was playing an 8K picture. I told the salesman to play a 4K picture, then a 4K Blu Ray and a Blu Ray and finally DVD and compared the results next to a 4K TV. The 4K looked the same as the 8K, except with the DVD and it looked worst. Being an elite customer they were happy to give me what I wanted. I told the salesman it was a waste of money and he said to me in private that he agreed.

The only thing that was positive was the playing of the 8K video and watching it from 10 feet away made it look like 3D.
Slow clap for Magnolia! Care to share what store that was while you are at it? Of course you jotted down the settings for each TV, right? Or at least peeked at the menu, yes?

I'm Elite too! It's a club!

How was the store playing 8K, exactly? What was this content?

Funny, I was just in a Magnolia yesterday, sort of checking out the whole scene there, it's been a minute since I visited one.



Almost caught a whiff of nostalgia walking into a Best Buy Magnolia yesterday... almost.

Mark Henninger
Editor, AVS Forum

Last edited by imagic; 05-13-2019 at 03:26 PM.
imagic is online now  
post #126 of 193 Old 05-13-2019, 03:29 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
MarkHotchkiss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Long Beach, California
Posts: 1,471
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 86
There is no AI involved.

A minor point:

The upscaling is total procedural. Labeling it as "AI" is simply exploitation by the marketing people.

Think about it - artificial intelligence requires a form of feedback for the engine to refine its weights. How are you going to allow the engine to "see" the resulting image?

As Mark pointed out in his first post, it was only a matter of time before Moore's Law caught up to the problem. That's all, nothing more needed. AI is unnecessary.

mark
MarkHotchkiss is offline  
post #127 of 193 Old 05-13-2019, 04:53 PM
Senior Member
 
HDPERSON's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 301
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Slow clap for Magnolia! Care to share what store that was while you are at it? Of course you jotted down the settings for each TV, right? Or at least peeked at the menu, yes?

I'm Elite too! It's a club!

How was the store playing 8K, exactly? What was this content?

Funny, I was just in a Magnolia yesterday, sort of checking out the whole scene there, it's been a minute since I visited one.




Almost caught a whiff of nostalgia walking into a Best Buy Magnolia yesterday... almost.
The Magnolia is located in Bridgewater NJ. Don't remember the model numbers of the TVs. Both 8K and 4K QLED were Samsung. The 8K was playing some 8K clips when I asked the salesmen for the comparison. Very friendly salesman. Unless someone can receive 8K signals or Blu Rays or whatever, doesn't make sense to purchase this TV.
HDPERSON is offline  
post #128 of 193 Old 05-13-2019, 05:12 PM
Member
 
Alex Stittle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 47
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkHotchkiss View Post

Think about it - artificial intelligence requires a form of feedback for the engine to refine its weights. How are you going to allow the engine to "see" the resulting image?
Yeah I'm not too sure of the likelihood these TVs are constantly getting updates from a central server somewhere to improve their AI results but who knows?

From what I've seen, the algorithms are fed high res pictures that are then downscaled at many different resolutions so they know what a correct result looks like from a given set of low res pixels. There is no feedback of the result after the algorithm is applied to an unknown image, it's just a best guess that hopefully look ok!
Alex Stittle is offline  
post #129 of 193 Old 05-13-2019, 06:09 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 1,931
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1112 Post(s)
Liked: 636
Sure glad I already have 2 superior viewing tv's and don't have to worry about these limited viewing...2D only 8K things for a long time. Guess I'm just lucky.


Voted most desirable mate by the ladies every year! Klan leader! Mob boss! Love advice expert! Credit cards accepted.

Last edited by Kenbar; 05-13-2019 at 06:19 PM.
Kenbar is offline  
post #130 of 193 Old 05-14-2019, 04:00 AM - Thread Starter
Mark Henninger
 
imagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 16,082
Mentioned: 441 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9162 Post(s)
Liked: 16159
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDPERSON View Post
The Magnolia is located in Bridgewater NJ. Don't remember the model numbers of the TVs. Both 8K and 4K QLED were Samsung. The 8K was playing some 8K clips when I asked the salesmen for the comparison. Very friendly salesman. Unless someone can receive 8K signals or Blu Rays or whatever, doesn't make sense to purchase this TV.
Well, my points are...

1. There's a benefit to 8K TVs when it comes upscaling. That's literally the whole point of this post.

2. Magnolia stores are better than a warehouse club but there's no point in comparing two TVs unless they are both pro calibrated.

3. Additionally, you want to compare the same content from the same source when judging native 4K versus 4K upscaled to 8K.

4. Regardless some folks will not see a difference. At which point it behooves a "friendly" salesperson to guide the sale toward the TV they think you might buy. If you walked in and said "I love 8K and money is no object" I bet you'd get a different sales pitch.

Mark Henninger
Editor, AVS Forum
imagic is online now  
post #131 of 193 Old 05-14-2019, 04:50 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
8mile13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 7,616
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2425 Post(s)
Liked: 1418
Folks keep claiming that 8K is beneficial for glasses free 3D...extra pixels for more depth. BOE plans to build StreamTV glasses free 3D technology into all its 8K panels. I guess those are 8K glasses free 3D losers
imagic and pilotart like this.
8mile13 is online now  
post #132 of 193 Old 05-14-2019, 04:56 AM - Thread Starter
Mark Henninger
 
imagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 16,082
Mentioned: 441 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9162 Post(s)
Liked: 16159
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post
Folks keep claiming that 8K is beneficial for glasses free 3D...extra pixels for more depth. BOE plans to build StreamTV glasses free 3D technology into all its 8K panels. I guess those are 8K glasses free 3D losers
I think I need to take a quick trip up to their office, it's just a short bike ride from my home, and see what's up. I thought the technology was interesting with 4K, if 8K can improve on it then glasses-free 3D is finally a realistic possibility for consumer products and not just Vegas slot machines.
pilotart likes this.

Mark Henninger
Editor, AVS Forum
imagic is online now  
post #133 of 193 Old 05-14-2019, 06:45 AM
Advanced Member
 
Steve P.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 932
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Liked: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDPERSON View Post
I agree with you. I saw the 8K at Magnolia in the Best Buy store. The store was playing an 8K picture. I told the salesman to play a 4K picture, then a 4K Blu Ray and a Blu Ray and finally DVD and compared the results next to a 4K TV. The 4K looked the same as the 8K, except with the DVD and it looked worst. Being an elite customer they were happy to give me what I wanted. I told the salesman it was a waste of money and he said to me in private that he agreed.

The only thing that was positive was the playing of the 8K video and watching it from 10 feet away made it look like 3D.
Yeah, if you don't know what 3-D is supposed to look like Flat pictures are flat pictures, no matter how much resolution and how many colors are used.
Steve P. is offline  
post #134 of 193 Old 05-14-2019, 06:55 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 268
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 198 Post(s)
Liked: 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRAC View Post
Sorry...but this whole 8K AI upscaling nonsense makes me laugh.

Reminds me of the old saying...”you can’t polish a turd”.
1080->4K and 720->4K (why, oh why, did the change the unit of measurement and make things inconsistent?) are exact integral steps, so upscaling should have perfect results.

Just looking at horizontal lines (vertical is similar):

720 -> 1080, each source pixel maps to 1.5 pixels, so the algorithm matters - how to map and how/whether to dither can make a significant difference.

720 -> 2160 (4K), each source pixel maps to exactly 3 pixels, for perfect results. (1080 -> 4K is similar, each pixel mapping to 2).

Tell me how that's wrong, and how 8K (4320 horizontal lines) would make upscaling better? Unless the algorithm is trying to create something from nothing that is, i.e. video defects.
mike.s is offline  
post #135 of 193 Old 05-14-2019, 06:56 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
pilotart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: SW Florida
Posts: 1,216
Mentioned: 47 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 661 Post(s)
Liked: 507
Cool Size matters,

but PQ trumps size.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NuSoardGraphite View Post
I would just tell people to do the math:

1920 x 1080 = 2,073,600 pixels

3840 x 2160 = 8,294,400 pixels

7680 x 4320 = 33,177,600 pixels

Pretty simple really.

The only question is at what screen size does the pixel count no longer matter.
My first 4K was the 55" (see sig) and 2 years later, seeing end of 3D and realizing that due
to the 'curve', I could mount a 65", I moved up.

I was somewhat surprised to see that the 'old' 55 had a slightly 'better' looking picture (side-by-side)
on same source (usually antenna 720p or 1080i), but I still prefer the 65.... 55 is now a PC Monitor
but still has an antenna and its own DVR; I'm now at a 3 foot viewing distance and still don't 'notice'
pixels.

I can remember 'color' being the rage, but except for Sunday night, no color to be seen. it was over
ten years until I sprung for that $249 GE (at about 12") after 17" & 21" B&W's, then WOW; the
"Trinitron' (@ 15") came along with its marvelous PQ .

I still enjoy two HD Sony's and the older 40" trumps the 32" in PQ, being a 'flagship'; I'm at 3 foot
in the foyer, awaiting a weekly gourmet group pickup with the 40.
Art
pilotart is offline  
post #136 of 193 Old 05-14-2019, 07:27 AM - Thread Starter
Mark Henninger
 
imagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 16,082
Mentioned: 441 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9162 Post(s)
Liked: 16159
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike.s View Post
1080->4K and 720->4K (why, oh why, did the change the unit of measurement and make things inconsistent?) are exact integral steps, so upscaling should have perfect results.

Just looking at horizontal lines (vertical is similar):

720 -> 1080, each source pixel maps to 1.5 pixels, so the algorithm matters - how to map and how/whether to dither can make a significant difference.

720 -> 2160 (4K), each source pixel maps to exactly 3 pixels, for perfect results. (1080 -> 4K is similar, each pixel mapping to 2).

Tell me how that's wrong, and how 8K (4320 horizontal lines) would make upscaling better? Unless the algorithm is trying to create something from nothing that is, i.e. video defects.
Nearest-neighbor interpolation is the most "basic" upscaling. It's not what's used, on TVs or in Photoshop. Instead, more of the surrounding pixels are used to calculate the upscaled result, even if the math is otherwise "perfect"

The answer to "why do that?" is what I wrote about. If you have a diagonal line, it looks like stair steps on a grid. When you upscale, you can describe that line with more steps, so it looks smoother and less "jaggy". It's not cheating or inventing detail, it's simply making a sharp edge look sharper. Which is something the regular "sharpness" control cannot actually do.

Meanwhile if you just upscale (let's say) 720p to 4K or 8K with nearest-neighbor, it'll look really blocky.

The name of the game in upscaling is not inventing new information out of nothing. It's about identifying sharp lines and re-rendering them to a more detailed canvas (more pixels) while preserving the textures. The "AI" is really an image database that helps the TV identify the underlying attributes of lines and textures and gradients, to figure out what sort of processing to apply.

Photographers have been doing this for a couple decades, with plenty of Photoshop filters and real-world examples to back up the validity of the notion that you can gain perceived detail from upscaling an image and displaying it large. In the world of photography, it's axiomatic that all this does work.

Mark Henninger
Editor, AVS Forum
imagic is online now  
post #137 of 193 Old 05-14-2019, 07:42 AM
Newbie
 
Didact's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 0
What is 8K going to mean for 4K Blu-Rays?

I'd hate to think I've just wasted a fortune buying a new reciever, 4K OLED and 4K Blu-Ray player just to have it made obsolete a year later.

I was hoping to enjoy many years of UHD Blu-Ray releases (new and back-catalogue remasters).

Why replace 4K now it is finally starting to get traction?
Didact is offline  
post #138 of 193 Old 05-14-2019, 07:52 AM - Thread Starter
Mark Henninger
 
imagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 16,082
Mentioned: 441 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9162 Post(s)
Liked: 16159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Didact View Post
What is 8K going to mean for 4K Blu-Rays?

I'd hate to think I've just wasted a fortune buying a new reciever, 4K OLED and 4K Blu-Ray player just to have it made obsolete a year later.

I was hoping to enjoy many years of UHD Blu-Ray releases (new and back-catalogue remasters).

Why replace 4K now it is finally starting to get traction?
The truth is 8K mostly just means "premium TV" of the moment, so in reality you'll get whatever the top tech is in terms of backlights and processing and such. That's as true for 88" OLED as it is for a 98" FALD or an 8K projector. Those are the flagships. 4K works with all 8K devices, no problemo.

There's basically no issue with having more pixels than you need, as long as your upsampling is up to the task. 4K Blu-ray has more detail than most movies contain, due to constraints in CGI and also lenses. I'd say a 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray collection will be "good enough" for most folks (and by most, I really mean just about everybody) no matter what advances occur in TVs in the near future.
pilotart likes this.

Mark Henninger
Editor, AVS Forum
imagic is online now  
post #139 of 193 Old 05-14-2019, 08:41 AM
Newbie
 
skiis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
There's basically no issue with having more pixels than you need, as long as your upsampling is up to the task.
This probably could be one of the key points regarding upscaled source on 8K.

Upscaling to 8K uses live processing of massive amounts of data (especially action scenes).
8K unit will need an actual GPU on par with medium specs PC to achieve more or less presentable result.
Has seen anywhere in Samsung 8K TVs specifications something mentioning upscale engine capabilities or hardware specifics?
skiis is offline  
post #140 of 193 Old 05-14-2019, 12:33 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 268
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 198 Post(s)
Liked: 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
like stair steps on a grid. When you upscale, you can describe that line with more steps, so it looks smoother and less "jaggy". It's not cheating or inventing detail
Creating something from nothing is EXACTLY what it is. The algorithm can't know that it's not supposed to be how it is, it can only assume, and use that assumption to make up stuff which doesn't exist. No different than motion interpolation - video defects.
mike_carton likes this.
mike.s is offline  
post #141 of 193 Old 05-14-2019, 12:55 PM - Thread Starter
Mark Henninger
 
imagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 16,082
Mentioned: 441 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9162 Post(s)
Liked: 16159
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike.s View Post
Creating something from nothing is EXACTLY what it is. The algorithm can't know that it's not supposed to be how it is, it can only assume, and use that assumption to make up stuff which doesn't exist. No different than motion interpolation - video defects.
No problem. You are under no obligation to believe any of this, or to agree with me. But, as I keep saying, this stuff is old hat for digital photographers and the technology does work. It is not the same as motion interpolation. I don't have an explanation that's gonna work for you, so thank you for sharing your opinion.

Mark Henninger
Editor, AVS Forum
imagic is online now  
post #142 of 193 Old 05-14-2019, 02:34 PM
Newbie
 
Didact's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
The truth is 8K mostly just means "premium TV" of the moment, so in reality you'll get whatever the top tech is in terms of backlights and processing and such. That's as true for 88" OLED as it is for a 98" FALD or an 8K projector. Those are the flagships. 4K works with all 8K devices, no problemo.

There's basically no issue with having more pixels than you need, as long as your upsampling is up to the task. 4K Blu-ray has more detail than most movies contain, due to constraints in CGI and also lenses. I'd say a 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray collection will be "good enough" for most folks (and by most, I really mean just about everybody) no matter what advances occur in TVs in the near future.
Thanks for the explanation, I understand what you mean regarding resolution overhead and upscaling.

However what I meant to ask, is how likely is it that 4K blu-rays will stop being produced in favour of 8K blu-rays in the near future?

Furthermore, if that was to happen, would a sufficiently good player be able to downsample an 8K blu-ray to work on my 4K panel?
Didact is offline  
post #143 of 193 Old 05-16-2019, 10:05 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Star56's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: In my armed redoubt deep in the mountains of northern Ohio
Posts: 3,714
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 166 Post(s)
Liked: 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Didact View Post
Thanks for the explanation, I understand what you mean regarding resolution overhead and upscaling.

However what I meant to ask, is how likely is it that 4K blu-rays will stop being produced in favour of 8K blu-rays in the near future?

Furthermore, if that was to happen, would a sufficiently good player be able to downsample an 8K blu-ray to work on my 4K panel?
Major sporting events in the US are still broadcast in 720p. Worrying about 8K disks is absurd.

Understand that 16K will be just around the corner not matter how many double blind, randomized studies show that people cannot tell the difference between a 4K picture and an 8K. In fact you cannot get .05 significance level results comparing 1080P vs 4k at the distances and sizes people actually watch TV.

But no matter, 16K is coming right up just as soon as you are sucked into an 8K upgrade.

42" in the dining room. 50" in the bedroom. 86" in the living room. 65" in the family room. 70" in the family room. 106" in the family room "This is the voice of world control" Video Modes:EDTV-XGA-HDTV-4K HDR
Star56 is offline  
post #144 of 193 Old 05-17-2019, 05:05 AM - Thread Starter
Mark Henninger
 
imagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 16,082
Mentioned: 441 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9162 Post(s)
Liked: 16159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Didact View Post
Thanks for the explanation, I understand what you mean regarding resolution overhead and upscaling.

However what I meant to ask, is how likely is it that 4K blu-rays will stop being produced in favour of 8K blu-rays in the near future?

Furthermore, if that was to happen, would a sufficiently good player be able to downsample an 8K blu-ray to work on my 4K panel?
Personally, I don't think there is ever going to be 8K Blu-ray. I think for 4K is the end of the line for disc based movie delivery.

Mark Henninger
Editor, AVS Forum
imagic is online now  
post #145 of 193 Old 05-17-2019, 08:11 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Luke M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,027
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 389 Post(s)
Liked: 133
8K is stupid for movies, but I'd love to have an 8K 43" PC monitor. So far, all the 8K TVs are way too large.
Luke M is offline  
post #146 of 193 Old 05-17-2019, 08:28 AM
Senior Member
 
wiyosaya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 209
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 107 Post(s)
Liked: 68
Someone mentioned to me that since there are more pixels in 8K the peak achievable brightness will be higher, i.e., more nits with 8K because of the additional pixels.

Is this true?

My HT and the thrill of getting new equipment.
wiyosaya is offline  
post #147 of 193 Old 05-17-2019, 08:51 AM - Thread Starter
Mark Henninger
 
imagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 16,082
Mentioned: 441 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9162 Post(s)
Liked: 16159
Quote:
Originally Posted by wiyosaya View Post
Someone mentioned to me that since there are more pixels in 8K the peak achievable brightness will be higher, i.e., more nits with 8K because of the additional pixels.

Is this true?
It is not connected to pixel count. No. Aside from the reality that Going forward the most premium TVs that achieve the highest peak brightness will happen to be the 8K models. But it's not connected.
scionracing and wiyosaya like this.

Mark Henninger
Editor, AVS Forum
imagic is online now  
post #148 of 193 Old 05-17-2019, 09:52 AM
Senior Member
 
Todeseng3l's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 341
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 307 Post(s)
Liked: 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiis View Post
This probably could be one of the key points regarding upscaled source on 8K.

Upscaling to 8K uses live processing of massive amounts of data (especially action scenes).
8K unit will need an actual GPU on par with medium specs PC to achieve more or less presentable result.
Has seen anywhere in Samsung 8K TVs specifications something mentioning upscale engine capabilities or hardware specifics?
I was interested in this as well. Rendering 3D graphics (video games/modeling etc) is much different that displaying/upscaling video where the burden is much less. Samsung claims that it is powered by a 'quad core processor'. This is the same specification listed for the 4K upscale engine as well.
Todeseng3l is offline  
post #149 of 193 Old 05-17-2019, 10:01 AM
Senior Member
 
Todeseng3l's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 341
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 307 Post(s)
Liked: 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Slow clap for Magnolia! Care to share what store that was while you are at it? Of course you jotted down the settings for each TV, right? Or at least peeked at the menu, yes?
I completely agree. I took the trip out to my Best Buy/Magnolia center a couple of days ago specifically to compare the Q900RB to the Q90RA. It was impossible, the settings were so far apart and I wasn't going to waste my time dialing them in.

The one thing I did appreciate was the marginal difference in clarity 8K brought, it was small but tangible. They had 82/75" Q900RBs on display and only the 65" Q90RA. This is quite the feat considering the discrepancy in panel size, I would imagine comparing an 82" Q900RB to an 82" Q90RA the gains would have been much more appreciable.
Todeseng3l is offline  
post #150 of 193 Old 05-17-2019, 10:16 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
BRAC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Edmonton, AB
Posts: 2,042
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 698 Post(s)
Liked: 607
Quote:
Originally Posted by Todeseng3l View Post
I completely agree. I took the trip out to my Best Buy/Magnolia center a couple of days ago specifically to compare the Q900RB to the Q90RA. It was impossible, the settings were so far apart and I wasn't going to waste my time dialing them in.



The one thing I did appreciate was the marginal difference in clarity 8K brought, it was small but tangible. They had 82/75" Q900RBs on display and only the 65" Q90RA. This is quite the feat considering the discrepancy in panel size, I would imagine comparing an 82" Q900RB to an 82" Q90RA the gains would have been much more appreciable.


I think you would be in the minority with that observation, unless you are talking about the native 8K content demo. I have not seen that at all while comparing 4K or lower content. And, I’ve actually seen an 82” Q90 up close, so no assumptions on my part.

Samsung 82” Q90R * LG 55” C8 * Denon X4500H * 5.2.4 Atmos * Xbox One X * PS4 Pro
BRAC is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply LCD Flat Panel Displays

Tags
8k upscaling

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off