Hisense LCD TV using a Dual-cell ULED XD panel layer - Page 6 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #151 of 259 Old 08-29-2019, 02:35 PM
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I’m not a big gamer either. The fact that Sony has done it proves that it’s a viable technology capable of competing with other formats. If Sony didn’t accomplish this there would be discussions saying dual layer lcd is not capable of acceptable lag.
Maybe by those who don't understand the tech. It really has nothing to do with the panels themselves... but the video processing/driver chips used. Hisense doesn't have really any low latency TVs in general, so I wouldn't have expected to see it perform any different latency wise than their standard FALD out now.


Maybe Hisense will have a new processing chip for next year? perhaps it'll be faster...

Sony uses this dual panel tech because it's superior to OLED in more ways than it's inferior.

To boot the SONY uses an IPS back panel the Hisense is a MVA; so the blacks should be remarkably better/easier to control on the Hisense. Hopefully hisense delivers and we can see this for ourselves in the US
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post #152 of 259 Old 08-30-2019, 11:42 AM
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Maybe by those who don't understand the tech. It really has nothing to do with the panels themselves... but the video processing/driver chips used. Hisense doesn't have really any low latency TVs in general, so I wouldn't have expected to see it perform any different latency wise than their standard FALD out now.


Maybe Hisense will have a new processing chip for next year? perhaps it'll be faster...

Sony uses this dual panel tech because it's superior to OLED in more ways than it's inferior.

To boot the SONY uses an IPS back panel the Hisense is a MVA; so the blacks should be remarkably better/easier to control on the Hisense. Hopefully hisense delivers and we can see this for ourselves in the US



I think the biggest issue with these sets now is power consumption. The 30 inch Sony was running at like 350 watts! I can only imagine what a 75 inch set would draw! Anyone have any idea how much power the Chinese dual layer Hisense consumes?
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post #153 of 259 Old 08-30-2019, 12:51 PM
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I think the biggest issue with these sets now is power consumption. The 30 inch Sony was running at like 350 watts! I can only imagine what a 75 inch set would draw! Anyone have any idea how much power the Chinese dual layer Hisense consumes?
I don't think comparing an over-designed professional monitor which has MANY large cooling fans on the back to a consumer grade TV is going to be "on equal grounds".

HZ65U9E is the model number for the TV already out in china. Reviews of it have been posted and mentioned (there's another thread).

265 watts average on the 65" is only info I have seen; no clue what settings the TV was at when this was measured. The max it can draw I think is 350 watts by the power supply specifications but I'm going off of memory from an article I read weeks ago. Really not that far off from Vizio PQ (305 watts max), Samsungs Q90R (262 max). In ballpark for other FALDs, but it does require more brightness to deal with the dual panel.

It'll be best to compare to other Hisense FALD displays if this makes it to the US. To get an accurate idea of how much overhead the dual panel costs.... too many variables cross-comparing.
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post #154 of 259 Old 08-30-2019, 05:38 PM - Thread Starter
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That is the question: does it use as much power as two TVs?
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post #155 of 259 Old 08-30-2019, 09:20 PM
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The Chinese model is only 500 nits. I don’t know what kind of power would be needed to double that figure. I would say they need at least 750 nits preferably a thousand for the US market.
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post #156 of 259 Old 09-01-2019, 01:49 AM
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I would be all over this if there was a 55" size available, but it doesn't look like that will be the case in 2020.
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post #157 of 259 Old 09-01-2019, 02:39 AM
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As SONY is up with professional dual-cell monitor. I think we can expect consumer TV prototype on display at CES2020
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post #158 of 259 Old 09-01-2019, 06:42 AM
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I would be willing to pay a premium of 50% over oled for this once it becomes viable. This is true innovation.
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post #159 of 259 Old 09-01-2019, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by KD8118 View Post
I would be willing to pay a premium of 50% over oled for this once it becomes viable. This is true innovation.
Don't worry if SONY brings in their model then it will surely be priced 50% over their OLED lineup. But Hisense launched it priced under their OLED lineup in China. We can expect similar pricing in other markets as well.
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post #160 of 259 Old 09-01-2019, 12:35 PM
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As SONY is up with professional dual-cell monitor. I think we can expect consumer TV prototype on display at CES2020
I’ve been hearing a lot of rumors of Sony introduces consumer level dual layer tv. Is this based on anything concrete or is it wishful thinking since they have released a pro dual layer monitor?

Seems like they have pretty much addressed all the hurdles in their pro monitor. A consumer model will literally disrupt the industry.
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post #161 of 259 Old 09-01-2019, 12:58 PM
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I’ve been hearing a lot of rumors of Sony introduces consumer level dual layer tv. Is this based on anything concrete or is it wishful thinking since they have released a pro dual layer monitor?

Seems like they have pretty much addressed all the hurdles in their pro monitor. A consumer model will literally disrupt the industry.
SONY has not yet announced or teased about dual-layer TV for consumer market. But as they have released perfected model for their professional lineup. We expect them to at-least put-up a prototype at CES2020 if not promise one to released next year.


Well if they announce one to be released next year let it be their Master Series top of the line product. It will destroy other LED and OLED manufacturers like SAMSUNG and LG.
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post #162 of 259 Old 09-06-2019, 07:14 AM
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https://finance.yahoo.com/news/hisen...124900571.html

A blurb from IFA, I hope we get reports from the floor:

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Hisense 75'' 8K ULED XD TV: Contrast ratio exceeds 1:100,000

Hisense believes that the trend of TV industry development must not be the price war, but the high-end screen. On July 8, Hisense launched the world's first ULED XD TV in China. Compared with the 65-inch screen previously released, Hisense launched the new ULED XD TV whose screen was increased to 75 inches and supports 8K content. Hisense ULED XD TV introduced a second monochrome panel to more precisely control light output. The monochrome LCD layer under the color LCD layer blocks light from pixels that are supposed to be dark before they hit the color layer that produces the full picture. In order to achieve a better display effect, Hisense adopted its unique control algorithm and used 5 chips to achieve efficient control. The static contrast ratio has increased to over 1:100,000.
Other mentions:

https://www.digitaltrends.com/home-t...r-tv-ifa-2019/

https://www.whathifi.com/us/news/his...n-u9e-uled-tvs
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post #163 of 259 Old 09-06-2019, 07:28 AM - Thread Starter
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IFA 2019, Panasonic 'MegaCon' 55'' dual layer LCD prototype. Panasonic calls it ''Dual Panel LCD technology''.
https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.ph...&id=1567697397



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post #164 of 259 Old 09-06-2019, 07:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Techradar Panasonic ''Megacon'' first look ''the MegaCon can be watched from a wide angle with minimal loss of contrast or color saturation''.
https://www.techradar.com/news/panas...-tv-first-look



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post #165 of 259 Old 09-06-2019, 09:37 AM
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Oh man what I would do and pay for a Panasonic dual layer consumer model! One article mentioned it ran very hot. This may be the limiting factor of this technology. It seems weird Panasonic developed this over 10 years ago and its being used only in the professional segment. Sony's 30 inch dual layer professional monitor was running at 350 watts. The Hisense was being touted at coming out with 1000 nits and the Chinese version only has 500. Light, heat and current seems to be an issue that needs working on.
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post #166 of 259 Old 09-07-2019, 12:35 AM
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It appears based on the reports that Panasonic has basically cracked the code on viewing angles with this model. Based on measurements I’ve read on viewing angles, not even OLED is perfect or even nearly so...as such this model might not be too far off OLED and may prove more than good enough for most users. Other than the comment from one of the reviews about a small lack of resolution and the power usage, it appears we have as close to a perfect set as we will see for some time to come. I’m not even sure Micro LED will be as good, let alone better. A very interesting piece of engineering by Panasonic.

Some measurements of viewing angle in case anyone is interested:
https://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/pict.../viewing-angle
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post #167 of 259 Old 09-07-2019, 02:38 AM
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I feel similar about micro led. I feel like it’s a pipe dream and very far away. As of right now they can’t manufacture an led nearly small enough as what it needs to be. That’s why the prototypes are huge screens at only 1080p. Realistically it could even take 5-10 years to develop a prototype with led’s the size of the pixels our current televisions have today at 4K, Don’t even think about 8k. Then they will have to figure out how to make it affordable. Let’s assume a micro led bulb is 5 cents.... times that by 8 million and the tv will be about 400k. Even if you half that it’s still super astronomical.

I think dual layer lcd is the only shot we have at a breakthrough any time soon.
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post #168 of 259 Old 09-07-2019, 03:24 AM
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I just fear the price tag, I mean how long before the minions like me can afford tech like this?
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post #169 of 259 Old 09-07-2019, 06:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Techradar Hisense HZ65U9E first look. Just like the Techradar Panasonic Megacon review this was writen by John Archer ''Can't beat Panasonic's MegaCon for local dimming''. Archer also mentions a second 75'' 8K Hisense dual cell TV demo at IFA 2019.
https://www.techradar.com/reviews/hi...led-hz65u9e-tv
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Techradar Hisense HZ65U9E first look. Just like the Techradar Panasonic Megacon review this was writen by John Archer ''Can't beat Panasonic's MegaCon for local dimming''. Archer also mentions a second 75'' 8K Hisense dual cell TV demo at IFA 2019.
https://www.techradar.com/reviews/hi...led-hz65u9e-tv

8mile always on the ball! Seems like Hisense has some work to do! It's funny how its praise isnt as high after Panasonic killed it with the Megacon! They claim the version that is being released in the US will have dual 4k panels possibly solving a lot of those issues. I just really wish companies keep away from 8K for the time being. I would be extremely disappointed if the 75 inch model was 8k with a 4k layer modulating the light. Hisense please give us a 75 inch 4k with two 4k panels! Dont sacrifice the television for the gimmick of 8k!


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I just fear the price tag, I mean how long before the minions like me can afford tech like this?

This stuff is meant to be in our hands soon! It's a very clever way of incorporating existing technology! It's not like having to create a new panel type, all the parts are already in the toolbox.
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post #171 of 259 Old 09-07-2019, 08:20 AM
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8mile always on the ball! Seems like Hisense has some work to do! It's funny how its praise isnt as high after Panasonic killed it with the Megacon! They claim the version that is being released in the US will have dual 4k panels possibly solving a lot of those issues. I just really wish companies keep away from 8K for the time being. I would be extremely disappointed if the 75 inch model was 8k with a 4k layer modulating the light. Hisense please give us a 75 inch 4k with two 4k panels! Dont sacrifice the television for the gimmick of 8k!





This stuff is meant to be in our hands soon! It's a very clever way of incorporating existing technology! It's not like having to create a new panel type, all the parts are already in the toolbox.
I agree and how that's the case.
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post #172 of 259 Old 09-07-2019, 08:35 AM
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Could the higher power requirements mentioned be ameliorated by using quantum dot filters? I'm not an EE, but it seems that the QD filters should be able to be used...
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post #173 of 259 Old 09-07-2019, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KD8118 View Post
8mile always on the ball! Seems like Hisense has some work to do! It's funny how its praise isnt as high after Panasonic killed it with the Megacon! They claim the version that is being released in the US will have dual 4k panels possibly solving a lot of those issues. I just really wish companies keep away from 8K for the time being. I would be extremely disappointed if the 75 inch model was 8k with a 4k layer modulating the light. Hisense please give us a 75 inch 4k with two 4k panels! Dont sacrifice the television for the gimmick of 8k!





This stuff is meant to be in our hands soon! It's a very clever way of incorporating existing technology! It's not like having to create a new panel type, all the parts are already in the toolbox.
I bet the Hisense version is less than 10% of the Megacon... Probably around 5%. The 32 inch Panasonic panel (in the Sony) is in the mid 30k range... The 55 inch panel Vincent hinted could be in the 50-60k range... I bet the 65" 4k Hisense arrives in the 3-4k range.
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I bet the Hisense version is less than 10% of the Megacon... Probably around 5%. The 32 inch Panasonic panel (in the Sony) is in the mid 30k range... The 55 inch panel Vincent hinted could be in the 50-60k range... I bet the 65" 4k Hisense arrives in the 3-4k range.

They are not meant to be compared. I hope Panasonic or Sony makes a consumer model for $5,500. Their versions are pretty much ready to go and the high end segment would definitely pay for it.



I dont understand Samsungs strategy. They literally have nothing going for them and decide to try and develop an inferior OLED technology that's years away. They should have jumped on something like this 2 years ago.
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post #175 of 259 Old 09-07-2019, 12:38 PM
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They are not meant to be compared. I hope Panasonic or Sony makes a consumer model for $5,500. Their versions are pretty much ready to go and the high end segment would definitely pay for it.



I dont understand Samsungs strategy. They literally have nothing going for them and decide to try and develop an inferior OLED technology that's years away. They should have jumped on something like this 2 years ago.
Yeah Samsung’s decision making has been a little head scratching. I’d rather them do this or come out with their Q90S mini-LED they demoed a couple years ago. Their QD-OLED isn’t going to be cheap so won’t put a dent in what LG is doing with their OLEDs.

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post #176 of 259 Old 09-07-2019, 03:45 PM
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Could the higher power requirements mentioned be ameliorated by using quantum dot filters? I'm not an EE, but it seems that the QD filters should be able to be used...
65" Hisense dual panel is ~350 Watts. The professional monitors are built differently.
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post #177 of 259 Old 09-07-2019, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by flyboy2160 View Post
Could the higher power requirements mentioned be ameliorated by using quantum dot filters? I'm not an EE, but it seems that the QD filters should be able to be used...
65" Hisense dual panel is ~350 Watts. The professional monitors are built differently.
I get that but it’s only 500 nits. Would a 1000 nits version double the power needs?
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post #178 of 259 Old 09-07-2019, 10:27 PM
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The one at IFA. It is claiming 1 million zones, so perhaps a 960x1080 (or maybe 1280x720p) light modulating panel behind the 4k screen. Essentially 8 pixels sharing a backlight. It also shows multi zoned LED backlight.

So if the Panasonic is doing a 4k light modulating panel and Hisense is using one with 8x larger openings, perhaps Hisense experiences a lot less light loss from the modulating panel allowing a brighter picture and less watts than the Panasonic. It would also could be a lot easier to align panels if one is lower resolution.

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The one at IFA. It is claiming 1 million zones, so perhaps a 960x1080 (or maybe 1280x720p) light modulating panel behind the 4k screen. Essentially 8 pixels sharing a backlight. It also shows multi zoned LED backlight.

So if the Panasonic is doing a 4k light modulating panel and Hisense is using one with 8x larger openings, perhaps Hisense experiences a lot less light loss from the modulating panel allowing a brighter picture and less watts than the Panasonic. It would also could be a lot easier to align panels if one is lower resolution.
Oh wow! So they are not using a 1080p panel! A little deceiving on their part.

A million zones is still groundbreaking but we are not where we need to be yet. This explains the slight haloing and the small halo ring seen around dark objects.

This also concerns me further about the power requirements. I hope some further research and development overcome this problem and isn’t a scientific brick wall.
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post #180 of 259 Old 09-08-2019, 11:44 AM - Thread Starter
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There was a Skyworth dual cell LCD at IFA 2019 which was also at CES 2019 but since it has not been posted here i add a picture of the TV.


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