Hisense LCD TV using a Dual-cell ULED XD panel layer - Page 7 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #181 of 259 Old 09-08-2019, 11:57 AM - Thread Starter
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https://www.prnewswire.co.uk/news-re...862216956.html
BOE's BD Cell display technology won the Innovative Display Technology Gold Award, an IFA Product Technical Innovation Award 2019.

BD Cell, which was highly rated at CES 2019 and SID Display Week 2019, is a brand new breakthrough BOE has achieved in display field. Backed by BOE's unique ADSDS hard panel technology, BD Cell displays can offer a wide viewing angle of 178 degrees in all cases. Unlike other displays, BD Cell display features two layers of black-and-white and color cells, pixel division technology and micron-level dimming technology, which enable an ultra-high contrast ratio of up to million-level. Moreover, this display technology enjoys an obvious advantage in gray level performance. BD Cell display can realize 12 bits color depth, which adds to finer detail in the shades of gray and colors, especially of low-gray-scale images. Such technological innovation enables BD Cell to offer the same visual experience as OLED plus a greater advantage in power consumption and cost. Apart from high-end TV products, BOE's BD Cell technology will also be used gradually in notebooks, monitors, tablets and other products, thus injecting new vitality into the industry.
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post #182 of 259 Old 09-08-2019, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post
https://www.prnewswire.co.uk/news-re...862216956.html
BOE's BD Cell display technology won the Innovative Display Technology Gold Award, an IFA Product Technical Innovation Award 2019.

BD Cell, which was highly rated at CES 2019 and SID Display Week 2019, is a brand new breakthrough BOE has achieved in display field. Backed by BOE's unique ADSDS hard panel technology, BD Cell displays can offer a wide viewing angle of 178 degrees in all cases. Unlike other displays, BD Cell display features two layers of black-and-white and color cells, pixel division technology and micron-level dimming technology, which enable an ultra-high contrast ratio of up to million-level. Moreover, this display technology enjoys an obvious advantage in gray level performance. BD Cell display can realize 12 bits color depth, which adds to finer detail in the shades of gray and colors, especially of low-gray-scale images. Such technological innovation enables BD Cell to offer the same visual experience as OLED plus a greater advantage in power consumption and cost. Apart from high-end TV products, BOE's BD Cell technology will also be used gradually in notebooks, monitors, tablets and other products, thus injecting new vitality into the industry.
Wow that sounds impressive!
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post #183 of 259 Old 09-08-2019, 12:10 PM
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There was a Skyworth dual cell LCD at IFA 2019 which was also at CES 2019 but since it has not been posted here i add a picture of the TV.


Is this a rebranded hisense?
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post #184 of 259 Old 09-08-2019, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by qoopy View Post
Is this a rebranded hisense?
Hisense is using BOE's BD Cell display technology in their U9E model, specs/tech as mentioned in previous post. Not sure if anyone else is using the same panels.
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post #185 of 259 Old 09-08-2019, 01:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by qoopy View Post
Is this a rebranded hisense?
I was wondering about that. It shurely looks like the same frame Hisense uses being a bit manipulated though.


It was stated a while back that Hisense, Konka and Skyworth dual layer LCDs were using a Innolux dual layer panel. There was a BOE (BoeDual Cell panel) demo at Display Week 2019 with Boe using the same TV frame as Hisense does. The 8K Hisense prototype at IFA 2019 also uses this frame. looks like all using the same frame but variations of the dual layer panels available.

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post #186 of 259 Old 09-08-2019, 03:19 PM
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The better power consumption over oled claim is very interesting. I wonder if it’s fake, they threw a couple curves our way. Anyway this would be the last piece of the puzzle of a nearly perfect display.

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post #187 of 259 Old 09-08-2019, 05:11 PM
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I just fear the price tag, I mean how long before the minions like me can afford tech like this?
as soon as everyone is doing it and the tech is normalised. I suspect more specialized panels will help with power consumption as well.
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post #188 of 259 Old 09-08-2019, 06:23 PM
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Would a company like Sony use a BOE panel? If not we wont see one from them because from my understanding they dont manufacture panels, Unless Panasonic makes a consumer version. I would like to See Samsung get in the game as well. I would love to see what they could do with specialized panels and see if they could make them more efficient. If these other companies dont get into this now and this technology works as good as they claim, the Chinese will steal the whole market! There will be Oled for purists and this for everyone else.
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post #189 of 259 Old 09-08-2019, 10:04 PM
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Would a company like Sony use a BOE panel? If not we wont see one from them because from my understanding they dont manufacture panels, Unless Panasonic makes a consumer version. I would like to See Samsung get in the game as well. I would love to see what they could do with specialized panels and see if they could make them more efficient. If these other companies dont get into this now and this technology works as good as they claim, the Chinese will steal the whole market! There will be Oled for purists and this for everyone else.
Sony does not make their own LCD panels. They get them third party, so perhaps they could jump on this. The Sony reference monitor with dual LCD tech is said to be the Panasonic panel.
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post #190 of 259 Old 09-08-2019, 10:41 PM
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so its nolonger LED, but LCD?
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post #191 of 259 Old 09-09-2019, 04:18 AM
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so its nolonger LED, but LCD?

LEDs are and have always been LCD TVs.

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post #192 of 259 Old 09-09-2019, 06:45 AM
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so its nolonger LED, but LCD?
The "LED" in LCD refers to the back light technology. When LCDs first came out they used florescent tube lights behind the LCD for lighting. LEDs have replaced the tubes, and several generations of LEDs have gone by with different coatings to improve colors, now they use blue LED light to excite nano particles called quantum dots to emit colored light for the LCD.
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post #193 of 259 Old 09-09-2019, 07:36 AM
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I feel similar about micro led. I feel like it’s a pipe dream and very far away. As of right now they can’t manufacture an led nearly small enough as what it needs to be. That’s why the prototypes are huge screens at only 1080p. Realistically it could even take 5-10 years to develop a prototype with led’s the size of the pixels our current televisions have today at 4K, Don’t even think about 8k. Then they will have to figure out how to make it affordable. Let’s assume a micro led bulb is 5 cents.... times that by 8 million and the tv will be about 400k. Even if you half that it’s still super astronomical.

I think dual layer lcd is the only shot we have at a breakthrough any time soon.
Samsung already showed a 75" 4k MicroLED TV.


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post #194 of 259 Old 09-09-2019, 10:11 AM
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Didn’t know sorry for the incorrect information. They still would need to get the bulbs down in size for a 55 inch 4K. It looks like we are definitely closer to this goal.

I still feel like this is very far away and being able to produce a microscopic led bulb won’t be cheap any time soon. I would love to be wrong.
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post #195 of 259 Old 09-09-2019, 11:02 AM
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Didn’t know sorry for the incorrect information. They still would need to get the bulbs down in size for a 55 inch 4K. It looks like we are definitely closer to this goal.

I still feel like this is very far away and being able to produce a microscopic led bulb won’t be cheap any time soon. I would love to be wrong.
Yeah, they showed it at CES:

https://www.trustedreviews.com/revie...-inch-microled

https://www.theverge.com/2019/1/6/18...ality-ces-2019

Supposedly coming out this year, but will probably cost about as much as a new car...

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post #196 of 259 Old 09-09-2019, 04:35 PM
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This video is very broad but Vincent mentions dual layer a couple of times.


First mention he asked the engineer from TLC about them making a dual layer panel and even compared it to the Panasonic at the same show. The TLC engineer "Merrick" claims they had a prototype dual layer LCD but they are not pursuing it anymore. He claims that you need an extremely bright back light for dual layer because extreme low light transmittance. Basically it works the same way as the contrast ratio, you mutliply the contrast between the two screens to calculate the contrast. Unfortunately the transmittance levels between the panels are also multiplied, meaning the light transmittance degrades exponentially.


Secondly he went to the Hisense booth and saw the Uled XD for the first time. Nothing new to report other than it appeared to have good blacks and a narrow viewing angle. This seems to be in line with what everyone is saying, and makes me doubt BOA's claims that this is more energy efficient than oled and have a good viewing angle. We will know the truth shortly.
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post #197 of 259 Old 09-09-2019, 05:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by KD8118 View Post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hb6wEg-mTIw


This video is very broad but Vincent mentions dual layer a couple of times.


First mention he asked the engineer from TLC about them making a dual layer panel and even compared it to the Panasonic at the same show. The TLC engineer "Merrick" claims they had a prototype dual layer LCD but they are not pursuing it anymore. He claims that you need an extremely bright back light for dual layer because extreme low light transmittance. Basically it works the same way as the contrast ratio, you mutliply the contrast between the two screens to calculate the contrast. Unfortunately the transmittance levels between the panels are also multiplied, meaning the light transmittance degrades exponentially.


Secondly he went to the Hisense booth and saw the Uled XD for the first time. Nothing new to report other than it appeared to have good blacks and a narrow viewing angle. This seems to be in line with what everyone is saying, and makes me doubt BOA's claims that this is more energy efficient than oled and have a good viewing angle. We will know the truth shortly.
CSOT showed a Dual Cell LCD at Display Week 2019. CSOT is owned by TCL.
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post #198 of 259 Old 09-10-2019, 09:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Vincent Teoh makes a few interesting statements
1 a dual layer LCD needs a lot of power to hit 1000 nits (which is why TCL stopped dual layer LCD development)
2 U9E viewing angles are narrow.

There is conflicting info, reviews, statements about the U9E viewing angles. Interestingly John Archer did spot a few issues but did not mention viewing angles at all which is a bit lame since that is relevant information. avforums stated that ''the U9E viewing angles also appeared wider than I was expecting, (and for an LCD TV the picture was incredible).'' But also stated ''unlike similar dual panel LCD displays from other manufacturers, the Megacon also features a wide viewing angle without losing colour fidelity.''
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post #199 of 259 Old 09-10-2019, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post
Vincent Teoh makes a few interesting statements
1 a dual layer LCD needs a lot of power to hit 1000 nits (which is why TCL stopped dual layer LCD development)
2 U9E viewing angles are narrow.

There is conflicting info, reviews, statements about the U9E viewing angles. Interestingly John Archer did spot a few issues but did not mention viewing angles at all which is a bit lame since that is relevant information. avforums stated that ''the U9E viewing angles also appeared wider than I was expecting, (and for an LCD TV the picture was incredible).'' But also stated ''unlike similar dual panel LCD displays from other manufacturers, the Megacon also features a wide viewing angle without losing colour fidelity.''

Yes there are definitely some discrepancies. One side of the argument says you need a mini nuclear reactor to power this, and BOE claims super efficient, less power than oled! So someone is flat out lying.
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post #200 of 259 Old 09-10-2019, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post
Vincent Teoh makes a few interesting statements
1 a dual layer LCD needs a lot of power to hit 1000 nits (which is why TCL stopped dual layer LCD development)
2 U9E viewing angles are narrow.

There is conflicting info, reviews, statements about the U9E viewing angles. Interestingly John Archer did spot a few issues but did not mention viewing angles at all which is a bit lame since that is relevant information. avforums stated that ''the U9E viewing angles also appeared wider than I was expecting, (and for an LCD TV the picture was incredible).'' But also stated ''unlike similar dual panel LCD displays from other manufacturers, the Megacon also features a wide viewing angle without losing colour fidelity.''
He did mention them when talking about the Megacon set:

"You can watch the MegaCon from a viewing angle of around 60 degrees off axis without any major reduction in contrast and color too. In fact, colors look exquisitely natural and nuanced, as the screen’s remarkably wide color palette harmonizes beautifully with the screen’s pixel-level light control."

If true 60 degrees seems about as good as rtings has measured OLED's.

https://www.techradar.com/news/panas...-tv-first-look
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post #201 of 259 Old 09-10-2019, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post
Vincent Teoh makes a few interesting statements
1 a dual layer LCD needs a lot of power to hit 1000 nits (which is why TCL stopped dual layer LCD development)
2 U9E viewing angles are narrow.

There is conflicting info, reviews, statements about the U9E viewing angles. Interestingly John Archer did spot a few issues but did not mention viewing angles at all which is a bit lame since that is relevant information. avforums stated that ''the U9E viewing angles also appeared wider than I was expecting, (and for an LCD TV the picture was incredible).'' But also stated ''unlike similar dual panel LCD displays from other manufacturers, the Megacon also features a wide viewing angle without losing colour fidelity.''
that's so dumb to drop something just because it needs alot of power to run, i mean people would still buy it, it has to be more than that...
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post #202 of 259 Old 09-10-2019, 11:57 AM
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that's so dumb to drop something just because it needs alot of power to run, i mean people would still buy it, it has to be more than that...

To an extent, but you can only increase it so much before some bureaucratic government red tape comes into play.
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post #203 of 259 Old 09-10-2019, 08:14 PM
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Yes there are definitely some discrepancies. One side of the argument says you need a mini nuclear reactor to power this, and BOE claims super efficient, less power than oled! So someone is flat out lying.
Speaking for the power requirements/panel efficiency I think there's a lot of assumptions being made. None of these panels use the same technology outside of there being a "dual layer" panel. The bonding is different, the 2nd layers don't use the same tech. Some are MVA, some are IPS and some are custom patents specific for dual panel use for the back panel (even Apple has a patent for a dual layer panel). So speculating on light efficiency and what not will be difficult unless you have insider info... and or actually know which panel they are using.

It also seems Hisense has multiple prototypes; presumably with different panels and different setups. We have no clue which is being shown...

The side viewing on the U9E in China is very good, what all of the users reviews have described.

I love all of the info coming in; confusing as it may be. In the end it's going to come down to whatever it is they end up selling... in the meantime I like reading all of the updates.

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Would a company like Sony use a BOE panel? If not we wont see one from them because from my understanding they dont manufacture panels, Unless Panasonic makes a consumer version. I would like to See Samsung get in the game as well. I would love to see what they could do with specialized panels and see if they could make them more efficient. If these other companies dont get into this now and this technology works as good as they claim, the Chinese will steal the whole market! There will be Oled for purists and this for everyone else.
Yes, BOE supplies glass substrate and other parts to Sony, Samsung, LG, etc. I believe BOE is now the largest panel OEM supplier in the world.
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post #206 of 259 Old 09-11-2019, 03:52 PM
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I skimmed through the vid I posted before and now that I rewatched it there’s an interesting takeaway. Seems like there will not be a dual 4K version yet. They are having trouble aligning the panels perfectly and from what I gathered the 1080p is more forgiving in alignment.

Also in normal viewing it’s just as black as oled.
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post #207 of 259 Old 09-12-2019, 06:21 AM
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Hopefully, some of these manufacturer's showing private demos he mentioned are some of the big boys (Sony, LG, and/or Samsung). Would really like to see what one of them could do with either dual layered or mini-LED. Here's to hoping we see something at CES.

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post #208 of 259 Old 09-12-2019, 08:08 AM
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I skimmed through the vid I posted before and now that I rewatched it there’s an interesting takeaway. Seems like there will not be a dual 4K version yet. They are having trouble aligning the panels perfectly and from what I gathered the 1080p is more forgiving in alignment.

Also in normal viewing it’s just as black as oled.
yes, actually a lot of good info! Even just the light loss going from 4k to 8k on a LCD panel is significant he explained. But he also hinted that there are multiple ways to implement the dual-layer which can help and will be the "secret sauce". Excellent video! Enjoyed listening to Paul Gray; he's very knowledgeable...

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yes, actually a lot of good info! Even just the light loss going from 4k to 8k on a LCD panel is significant he explained. But he also hinted that there are multiple ways to implement the dual-layer which can help and will be the "secret sauce". Excellent video! Enjoyed listening to Paul Gray; he's very knowledgeable...

Yes, I think new manufacturing techniques will eventually improve this technology. I think it would be worth the investment to retool a factory. It would be nice if they could manufacture the dual layers as 1 panel, instead of making a sandwich.
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post #210 of 259 Old 09-12-2019, 10:20 AM
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Yes, I think new manufacturing techniques will eventually improve this technology. I think it would be worth the investment to retool a factory. It would be nice if they could manufacture the dual layers as 1 panel, instead of making a sandwich.
From what he said there is ample idle manufacturing that can handle it now. So hopefully they run with it and get this tech going.

Ya, I'm not a fan of the sandwich either. If I recall some of the patents I read hinted at not needing to be sandwiched; assuming they actually work

Hopefully they have some breakthroughs aligning the panels so they can do a 4k <-> 4k dual panel. Although from what Paul said a 4k front with a 2k rear is still sufficient.
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