Hisense LCD TV using a Dual-cell ULED XD panel layer - Page 9 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #241 of 259 Old 09-18-2019, 02:57 PM - Thread Starter
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There was 75'' 8K prototype and a 65'' 4K finished product (next to a H65B7500 LCD) at IFA 2019. Flatpanelshd states that there was a 65U9E finished product and its prototype at IFA 2019 (aside from the 75'' 8K prototype). So that is weird...or were they impressed with the 8K prototype, which still needed a lot of work according John Archer?

Flatpanelshd at IFA 2019
''While we were fairly impressed with the prototype that we saw at CES 2019 (same prototype was on display at IFA), the actual consumer product (U9E "ULED XD") is less impressive.''

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post #242 of 259 Old 09-20-2019, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post
There was 75'' 8K prototype and a 65'' 4K finished product (next to a H65B7500 LCD) at IFA 2019. Flatpanelshd states that there was a 65U9E finished product and its prototype at IFA 2019 (aside from the 75'' 8K prototype). So that is weird...or were they impressed with the 8K prototype, which still needed a lot of work according John Archer?

Flatpanelshd at IFA 2019
''While we were fairly impressed with the prototype that we saw at CES 2019 (same prototype was on display at IFA), the actual consumer product (U9E "ULED XD") is less impressive.''
Ya I dunno it's confusing. I'm thinking either they have different prototypes or wires are getting crossed. Most folks who see the U9E OR the ULED XD praise it. I was reading articles about BOE and found these comments...


https://www.displaydaily.com/article...market-in-2020

This article still continues the rumor of a UHD back panel (modulator).

Quote:
Originally Posted by display daily
(I also heard, separately that Hisense would use a panel from Innolux with a modulator at UltraHD, rather than the UltraHD panel with FullHD modulator version shown by BOE - BR)
It's interesting to get this level of detail about the panels; but I also suspect they have prototypes of each of these...

Also of interest (we've discussed this prior)...

Quote:
Originally Posted by display daily
Hisense also says that luminous efficiency of the dual-cell panel is 4%, which is not all that much worse than the 6% that is typical of single-cell panels (you can see the data on its dual panels from BOE in A Couple of Things I'll Be Looking for at SID which confirms this kind of level). This can be explained in part by the rear panel being monochrome and not requiring a color filter. In addition, one industry expert who asked not to be identified until he can verify his calculations, believes that the entire structure can operate with only two polarizers, not the three polarizers I would have guessed. All of this suggests that there may be only a modest cost premium over a comparable single-cell TV.
From everything I read the BOM will only go up $20-30 for the dual panel itself. Hard to say about the processing/back lighting. Fingers still crossed we see a consumer version of this next year.

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post #243 of 259 Old 09-21-2019, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by SiGGy View Post
Ya I dunno it's confusing. I'm thinking either they have different prototypes or wires are getting crossed. Most folks who see the U9E OR the ULED XD praise it. I was reading articles about BOE and found these comments...


https://www.displaydaily.com/article...market-in-2020

This article still continues the rumor of a UHD back panel (modulator).



It's interesting to get this level of detail about the panels; but I also suspect they have prototypes of each of these...

Also of interest (we've discussed this prior)...



From everything I read the BOM will only go up $20-30 for the dual panel itself. Hard to say about the processing/back lighting. Fingers still crossed we see a consumer version of this next year.
From what one of the editors over at Flatpanels is saying (in the comments)
https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.ph...&id=1568361005

when these panels get over 1000 nits, the power requirements and heat management appear troubling. And this is concerning the Panasonic dual cell which seeks to improve the brightness levels. Have to wonder if BOE or Hisense can make a dual cell with the brightness of the Panasonic, with no heat and power issues. It may not be possible for the time being. j
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post #244 of 259 Old 09-21-2019, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jl4069 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SiGGy View Post
Ya I dunno it's confusing. I'm thinking either they have different prototypes or wires are getting crossed. Most folks who see the U9E OR the ULED XD praise it. I was reading articles about BOE and found these comments...


https://www.displaydaily.com/article...market-in-2020

This article still continues the rumor of a UHD back panel (modulator).



It's interesting to get this level of detail about the panels; but I also suspect they have prototypes of each of these...

Also of interest (we've discussed this prior)...



From everything I read the BOM will only go up $20-30 for the dual panel itself. Hard to say about the processing/back lighting. Fingers still crossed we see a consumer version of this next year.
From what one of the editors over at Flatpanels is saying (in the comments)
https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.ph...&id=1568361005

when these panels get over 1000 nits, the power requirements and heat management appear troubling. And this is concerning the Panasonic dual cell which seeks to improve the brightness levels. Have to wonder if BOE or Hisense can make a dual cell with the brightness of the Panasonic, with no heat and power issues. It may not be possible for the time being. j
They are all using different techniques/designs... Last article I posted shows the light efficiency of the panels. If those numbers are right it won't be an issue.

Most LCDs are terrible already at around 6% efficiency (in total). They claim the dual panel is around 4%. Current Hisense U9E does 500+ nits in ~300 watts on a 65". I believe the U9E is using a BOE panel, all news indicates the us model ULED XD will use a different manufacturer, so who knows...


I wouldn't assume that all designs are equal. Last article also states they can possibly lower the number of polarizers needed for dual panel setup which also helps efficiency. Paul hints at this in his interview earlier in this thread.

Let's just even see if we get a TV next year . I'm feel its a low chance we even see a TV. Hopefully I'm wrong.

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post #245 of 259 Old 09-21-2019, 09:31 PM
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FYI, IPS panels (as used by Panasonic and Sony dual-cell products) have lower transmittance and higher power consumption than other LCD types. Maybe that's why Hisense is sticking with VA type panels.

I know this is likely biased but Samsung has a link showing some other IPS vs VA differences.

Also, as pointed out by others, a 4K secondary LCD layer will have lower transmittance than a 2K one.

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post #246 of 259 Old 09-22-2019, 08:53 AM
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they should just make an lcd screen out of Vantablack, should be dark enough for most people, now you dont have all the problems that come with dual layer panels
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post #247 of 259 Old 09-22-2019, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jl4069 View Post
From what one of the editors over at Flatpanels is saying (in the comments)
https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.ph...&id=1568361005

when these panels get over 1000 nits, the power requirements and heat management appear troubling. And this is concerning the Panasonic dual cell which seeks to improve the brightness levels. Have to wonder if BOE or Hisense can make a dual cell with the brightness of the Panasonic, with no heat and power issues. It may not be possible for the time being. j
One of the key differences of the Panasonic panels vs the current Hisense version is that Panasonic appears to be using 2 4k panels to get per pixel light control. The Hisense is using a low resolution light control panel. They are saying about 1 million zones (vs 8 million in the Panasonic solution). The lower resolution panel blocks a lot less light via cell structure overhead since there are fewer cells. While it may not get the single pixel light with no leakage to the surrounding pixels of the Panasonic, I do not think most people would notice a slight glow for the surrounding pixels at a normal seating distance (i.e. one pixel on and the other 7 or 8 surrounding pixels slightly glowing since they share the back light pixel).
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post #248 of 259 Old 09-23-2019, 05:48 PM
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i thought it was 2 million+ for the Hisense?

Z9D Settings Dolby Vision, Gaming etc
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...l#post56126450
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post #249 of 259 Old 09-23-2019, 06:22 PM
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i thought it was 2 million+ for the Hisense?
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...l#post58528322

The one they were demonstrating at IFA said 1 million on the display. There has been talk that they are working on 2 million.
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post #250 of 259 Old 09-23-2019, 07:37 PM
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I do not think most people would notice a slight glow for the surrounding pixels at a normal seating distance (i.e. one pixel on and the other 7 or 8 surrounding pixels slightly glowing since they share the back light pixel).
Wouldn't notice? More like couldn't notice. There's no way that someone could see any sort of light bleed at that microscopic level. Veiling glare would prevent that.
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post #251 of 259 Old 10-04-2019, 10:13 AM
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I was hoping to see an entry to the US this year. But, given the lack of buzz or other activity, I assume we have to wait until CES to see if they are thinking of bringing this tech to the US?
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post #252 of 259 Old 10-04-2019, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by mike123abc View Post
I was hoping to see an entry to the US this year. But, given the lack of buzz or other activity, I assume we have to wait until CES to see if they are thinking of bringing this tech to the US?

Yeah things have gotten stale. Hopefully we will see something soon.
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post #253 of 259 Old 10-04-2019, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by mike123abc View Post
I was hoping to see an entry to the US this year. But, given the lack of buzz or other activity, I assume we have to wait until CES to see if they are thinking of bringing this tech to the US?
It's scheduled for a 2020 consumer release in North America.

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post #254 of 259 Old 10-07-2019, 11:11 AM
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Wondering if this display supports VRR?
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post #255 of 259 Old 10-07-2019, 11:16 AM
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Wondering if this display supports VRR?

Don't think it matters if it will or not. I dont think the Hisense version or at least their first version of this display will support Video games very well.
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post #256 of 259 Old 10-07-2019, 12:46 PM
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Don't think it matters if it will or not. I dont think the Hisense version or at least their first version of this display will support Video games very well.
If it has Low input lag like the H9F that base would be covered/good for gaming.

120+hz and VRR would be amazing.

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post #257 of 259 Old 10-07-2019, 12:50 PM
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If it has Low input lag like the H9F that base would be covered/good for gaming.

120+hz and VRR would be amazing.

It would be amazing but I'm just trying to be realistic. The Sony dual layer reference monitor has good input lag suitable for gaming. The reports on this are not the same, Some theories even suggest they are having problems keeping the two layers in sync. I would love to be totally wrong and this thing just being a beast in every regard.
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post #258 of 259 Old 10-09-2019, 11:01 AM
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Just keeping the appetite wet

https://www.cnet.com/news/are-dual-l...s-to-find-out/
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post #259 of 259 Old 10-26-2019, 11:23 AM
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https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...1002/msid.1061

Quote:
The initial concerns for consumer TV have been cost, power consumption, thickness, and weight, but those issues now appear overblown. Hisense says the dual‐cell panel's luminous efficiency is four percent, which is not much worse than the six percent that's typical of single‐cell panels. The modest efficiency hit is explained in part by the rear panel being monochrome and not requiring a color filter. Moreover, one well‐known industry expert (who asked not to be identified until he can verify his calculations) believes that the entire structure can operate with only two polarizers, not the three polarizers I would have guessed.
Article on different display technology coming soon. A section on Hisense upcoming dual layer. Also says production will be Innolux panels.
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