Hisense LCD TV using a Dual-cell ULED XD panel layer - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 258 Old 05-10-2019, 07:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Hisense LCD TV using a Dual-cell ULED XD panel layer

Folks are very excited about this stuff. There was a prototype at CES back in januari. Plenty of prototypes we never hear about again though. This TV is similar to the Panasonic Dual layer stuff which is used in very expensive pro-monitors.



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post #2 of 258 Old 05-10-2019, 01:44 PM
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Looka like hisense is trying to up their products

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post #3 of 258 Old 05-13-2019, 05:13 PM
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8K and no HDMI 2.1 support ?
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post #4 of 258 Old 05-17-2019, 05:33 AM
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Could this be the new GOLD-Standard in TV Technology ?

https://www.digitaltrends.com/home-t...beat-oled-tvs/
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post #5 of 258 Old 05-17-2019, 08:42 AM
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I'm not going to lie, I am very excited about this. I was so excited about Mini-Led and those 5k+ zones of local dimming. I couldn't care less about them after this. This has the potential to give me something similar to Micro-Led right now as opposed to waiting 10 years when it will be realistically affordable to me! They claim it will be cheaper than OLED, This is seriously the most exciting thing coming that most don't even know about! Even if the price was par with oled who would buy oled to get half the brightness and the worry about burn in?
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post #6 of 258 Old 05-17-2019, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by KD8118 View Post
I'm not going to lie, I am very excited about this. I was so excited about Mini-Led and those 5k+ zones of local dimming. I couldn't care less about them after this. This has the potential to give me something similar to Micro-Led right now as opposed to waiting 10 years when it will be realistically affordable to me! They claim it will be cheaper than OLED, This is seriously the most exciting thing coming that most don't even know about! Even if the price was par with oled who would buy oled to get half the brightness and the worry about burn in?
I can't wait until these Hisense XD ULED's come on the market! It's going to be a real game changer!
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post #7 of 258 Old 05-17-2019, 10:24 AM
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Upcoming LCD tech is more exciting than upcoming OLED tech for sure.


I will say I'm just as excited for miniLED. We should see lots of the major brands move into this tech in the next 1-2 years. Millions of zones in the Hisense should be better, but 1000s of zones will still be damn impressive.
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post #8 of 258 Old 05-17-2019, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Yukon Trooper View Post
Upcoming LCD tech is more exciting than upcoming OLED tech for sure.


I will say I'm just as excited for miniLED. We should see lots of the major brands move into this tech in the next 1-2 years. Millions of zones in the Hisense should be better, but 1000s of zones will still be damn impressive.
I completely agree. Mini-LED might be close enough to OLED you might not know the difference. If it's done right.

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post #9 of 258 Old 05-17-2019, 11:00 AM
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I have read about this, very interesting stuff indeed!

Should Sony ever release something similar, then I'm all for it.
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post #10 of 258 Old 05-17-2019, 11:04 AM
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I have read about this, very interesting stuff indeed!

Should Sony ever release something similar, then I'm all for it.
Guaranteed to be overpriced if Sony does it. Great TVs, consistent quality panels, but it's a damn shame about those prices for tech everyone else is using. They even overprice their phones.
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post #11 of 258 Old 05-17-2019, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Drewtato View Post
Guaranteed to be overpriced if Sony does it. Great TVs, consistent quality panels, but it's a damn shame about those prices for tech everyone else is using. They even overprice their phones.
Well, what can I say.

Other than I am a Sony fanboy, but at the same time I also think their products (especially in the premium high end range) are really worth it.
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post #12 of 258 Old 05-17-2019, 01:05 PM
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Well, what can I say.

Other than I am a Sony fanboy, but at the same time I also think their products (especially in the premium high end range) are really worth it.
I can't wait until Sony gets their hands on this technology and offers their implementation. They will take something amazing and make it a legendary set that will be talked about for the next 10 years! Kinda like a pioneer elite plasma or the original Fujitsu!
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post #13 of 258 Old 05-17-2019, 01:39 PM
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A bright backlight, a VA grayscale panel and IPS color top panel. Dispersion plus contrast.
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post #14 of 258 Old 05-17-2019, 02:05 PM
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This Hisense XD ULED has an 1000000:1 Static Contrast Ratio...!


WOW!



That's up there on OLED Level!
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post #15 of 258 Old 05-17-2019, 11:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post
Folks are very excited about this stuff. There was a prototype at CES back in januari. Plenty of prototypes we never hear about again though. This TV is similar to the Panasonic Dual layer stuff which is used in very expensive pro-monitors.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STdZ_kiHYEY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFgFfqJzihA

Greetings 8mile13, thanks for sharing.

The first clip mentions 300 nits peak brightness for the ULD XD panel. Seems a bit low. Can anyone else confirm?
Many thanks and best regards,
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post #16 of 258 Old 05-18-2019, 05:23 AM
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Originally Posted by qoopy View Post
Greetings 8mile13, thanks for sharing.

The first clip mentions 300 nits peak brightness for the ULD XD panel. Seems a bit low. Can anyone else confirm?
Many thanks and best regards,
This XD ULED has over 2900 nits peak brightness!

https://www.engadget.com/2019/01/07/hisense-ces-2019/
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post #17 of 258 Old 05-18-2019, 05:43 AM
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Over 3000 nits "peak brightness" for the XD ULED

https://hdguru.com/hisense-expands-u...ment-for-2019/
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post #18 of 258 Old 05-18-2019, 05:49 AM
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Originally Posted by musicman777 View Post
Over 3000 nits "peak brightness" for the XD ULED

https://hdguru.com/hisense-expands-u...ment-for-2019/

This is the link I get.
https://hdguru.com/trumps-tariffs-to-tax-tvs/
But that certainly looks like 10000nits.

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post #19 of 258 Old 05-18-2019, 07:10 AM
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At what contrast ratio do we enter the land of diminishing returns? I have been doing research and people are saying Oled has better black levels than plasma. I was always under the impression that Plasma had perfect blacks. I would assume a million to one contrast would give us pretty perfect blacks or am I mistaken?
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post #20 of 258 Old 05-18-2019, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by KD8118 View Post
At what contrast ratio do we enter the land of diminishing returns? I have been doing research and people are saying Oled has better black levels than plasma. I was always under the impression that Plasma had perfect blacks. I would assume a million to one contrast would give us pretty perfect blacks or am I mistaken?
Yeah I agree, this holy Grail of perfect black levels is getting a little bit crazy.

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post #21 of 258 Old 05-18-2019, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by KD8118 View Post
At what contrast ratio do we enter the land of diminishing returns? I have been doing research and people are saying Oled has better black levels than plasma. I was always under the impression that Plasma had perfect blacks. I would assume a million to one contrast would give us pretty perfect blacks or am I mistaken?
I owned the Pioneer 5020, and the Samsung F8500 plasmas. They definitely did not have absolute black levels. Uniform near blacks, without a doubt, but not absolute black. In a dark room, you could see the plasma glow. Side by side with OLED and LCD, and all displaying a 0% slide, the plasma will glow. In fact, many of the newer high end LCD tv's have better contrast ratio than plasma. So although plasma had the best motion, uniform blacks, great color and excellent off axis viewing, they are not as good when it comes to black levels vs OLED and top end LCD.

LG 65E6P OLED - LG 65EF9500 OLED - OPPO 203 - OPPO 103D
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post #22 of 258 Old 05-18-2019, 01:43 PM
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It might be 10 years or so before these prices on these micro-leds come way down so these xd uleds in 2020 might get you close to the performance of micro-leds at a great price.
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post #23 of 258 Old 05-18-2019, 05:38 PM
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So a hisense that comes out next year will blow away every tv ever made? That sounds a bit crazy (understatement) to me.
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post #24 of 258 Old 05-18-2019, 08:20 PM
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I owned the Pioneer 5020, and the Samsung F8500 plasmas. They definitely did not have absolute black levels. Uniform near blacks, without a doubt, but not absolute black. In a dark room, you could see the plasma glow. Side by side with OLED and LCD, and all displaying a 0% slide, the plasma will glow. In fact, many of the newer high end LCD tv's have better contrast ratio than plasma. So although plasma had the best motion, uniform blacks, great color and excellent off axis viewing, they are not as good when it comes to black levels vs OLED and top end LCD.

Thanks for this reply, I always thought Plasma's had absolute blacks.


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So a hisense that comes out next year will blow away every tv ever made? That sounds a bit crazy (understatement) to me.

No it wont be the best tv ever made but it will shift the industry in a new direction. Once the big dogs take this technology and improve on it, then we will really start seeing the magic! This is very outside the box thinking that the big players kept away from because it's so unconventional. This Chinese company will force them to innovate, no more sitting by comfortably. I was afraid that this was vaporware but they have actually displayed an impressive prototype.


I think the first iteration will be a very impressive TV with the usual Hi-sense flaws. Probably not the most clean panel, the video processing wont be as good as the best, the viewing angles probably wont be perfect, etc.... I saw recent interview with Vincent and an engineer from TCL touting Mini-Led not only for the improved contrast but for better viewing angle. He stated that due to the light placement it will drastically improve the viewing angle. Now imagine using Mini-Led with these dual panel displays to have a better viewing angle. Imagine having very clean Sony panels with stellar image processing!



Disclaimer this is all wishful thinking as nothing has happened yet.
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post #25 of 258 Old 05-21-2019, 07:00 PM
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CNET got a look at the prototype and got more details about the final version coming out next year:

https://www.cnet.com/news/look-out-o...t-lower-price/

This is a pretty exciting change to the final version,


Quote:
At CES and the demo I saw in May, the luminance module had HD (1,920x1,080) resolution, bonded to a 4K resolution color module.
When ULED XD comes to market, both the luminance and color modules will be 4K (3,840x2,160) resolution.
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post #26 of 258 Old 05-22-2019, 04:16 AM
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Originally Posted by KD8118 View Post
At what contrast ratio do we enter the land of diminishing returns? I have been doing research and people are saying Oled has better black levels than plasma. I was always under the impression that Plasma had perfect blacks. I would assume a million to one contrast would give us pretty perfect blacks or am I mistaken?
If it's at pixel level like this and the dark end is near zero, I doubt you can perceive much more than 10k/1, probably less. The black squares test isn't near pixel level. I appreciate the 0 black level of plasmas but don't care for their infinite contrast claim. If a plasma had a peak brightness of 50 nits, It could still make that claim because 0 times infinity or 50 is still 0.

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post #27 of 258 Old 05-22-2019, 05:57 AM
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Originally Posted by js950 View Post
If it's at pixel level like this and the dark end is near zero, I doubt you can perceive much more than 10k/1, probably less. The black squares test isn't near pixel level. I appreciate the 0 black level of plasmas but don't care for their infinite contrast claim. If a plasma had a peak brightness of 50 nits, It could still make that claim because 0 times infinity or 50 is still 0.
Not that it matters but Plasma's, even the vaunted 9.5g Kuro never hit 0 nits. Close, but no cigar. 9.5G kuro at it's best was 0.0017 nits. (.0005fl) so that will tell you the order of magnitude the ULED XD can possibly do better (below).

Latest claim on the Hisense ULED XD is...

Quote:
Originally Posted by CNET
The black level measurement on ULED XD is 0.00003 nits, according to Hisense. That's lower than any LCD I've measured, albeit not as low as OLED (which is 0 nits).
https://www.cnet.com/news/look-out-o...t-lower-price/



That's really dark. So dark that if this is accurate the difference won't matter between OLED and ULED XD.

9.5g Kuro: 0.0017 nits
ULED XD : 0.00003 nits

That's 56x darker than the best Plasma ever did. And SO much brighter; I've seen claims of 2900 nits peak for the ULED XD. To add more worthless information today... plasma would be lucky if it could do 200 nits in a small fraction of the screen.

IMO if this tech actually does make it out and at the specs/prices they claim this is the biggest leap in consumer LCD technology in awhile. As in theory this is the end of blooming and will bring amazing blacks... Need to wait until some actual consumer units are out and not these prototypes. Until one exists I would probably take most information with a grain of salt; even negative things like viewing angle which I have heard is worse in general. It's too early to know if they plan on using a filter/coating to improve this...

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post #28 of 258 Old 05-22-2019, 07:07 AM
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CNET got a look at the prototype and got more details about the final version coming out next year
According to the article they're only planning on a 65" for 2020, so that definitely takes it off my list. It certainly sounds like interesting technology if they can get it done, and I get why they would release a 65", yet it's just not big enough for me to consider purchasing. Brighter OLEDs are also rumored for the next year or two, so the main advantages would seem to be a different screen finish (based on CES model), price, and no worry about burn-in.

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post #29 of 258 Old 05-22-2019, 09:04 AM
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When is the H9F coming out? The articles say end of May or begininng of June but there is no information on Hisense website. Anyone know?
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post #30 of 258 Old 05-23-2019, 07:20 AM
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According to the CNET article they claim they noticed a very minor halo effect. I wonder what the cause of this is, I came up with 3 possible reasons, feel free to chime in with any other explanation.

1. They are not getting the actual black levels as low as they are going claiming.

2. Software/Hardware issue. Meaning there is a delay between the dimming of light between the first and second panel. Some form of latency issue.

3. All the prototypes used a 1080p panel for grayscale. This would mean one 1080p pixel would control four pixels on a 4K panel. This may leak enough light to cause the halo effect until they use 2 4K panels for one to one pixel control. If this is the case this is extremely interesting as raising dimming zones on a fald display is futile. We can basically have a tv with one hundred thousand dimming zones and it will never solve the problem or get close to it.


Further I initially made a claim that I was afraid that this was vaporware because if a company like Panasonic that showcased this years ago was unsuccessful how would a company like Hisense succeed? Well after some research I stand corrected. Panasonic had the very high end segment in mind with the advent of this technology. This technology made it to about 5 reference monitors designed for editing. These are available right now and I’ve seen reviews on them and they are amazing. They use these for mastering and editing video that will be displayed on consumer televisions and all the reviews state these monitors do things OLED simply cannot. I think we are on cusp of some very amazing lcd televisions.
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