2019 Vizio P-Series Quantum X - Owner's Thread - No Price Talk - Page 15 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #421 of 1508 Old 07-17-2019, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by DisplayCalNoob View Post
Well, gradient banding is tied to bit depth, luminance and saturation. There isn't a color saturation problem, the display is 10 bits and 10 bits travels pretty close to the Barten's Threshold.

You can't do 1000 nits with a 8 bit panel, you would get banding everywhere. To remedy it, you would need 15 bit or higher processing to smooth it out, and detail would be lost.

Contrast in SDR, if set to high, you will clip video white(235), coupled with a high backlight brightness you get clipping plus banding. Only way to fix the clipping, is to lower contrast. Same applies to HDR, Contrast brightens the entire screen, contrast set to high coupled with a high backlight brightness that exceeds the content........

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So all of us should set Contrast at 48 with color at 52 for all our pic modes both HDR and SDR?
Im not arguing you are wrong, I just find it surprising and wondering why arent all owners doing that and calling it good? Any truly negative effects doing this?
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post #422 of 1508 Old 07-17-2019, 06:21 PM
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So all of us should set Contrast at 48 with color at 52 for all our pic modes both HDR and SDR?

Im not arguing you are wrong, I just find it surprising and wondering why arent all owners doing that and calling it good? Any truly negative effects doing this?
SDR you don't have to touch color, Contrast set to 48 clips at video white(253). Most SDR content has white detail above video white(235). Brightness will probably need to be increased 1 to eliminate any black crush.

HDR, specifically DV you shouldn't have to touch contrast at all. But, that requires Vizio team to have set it properly during factory calibration.

Its not done by most owners, because we were told that we shouldn't touch contrast. Problem is, no two panels are the same. So a lot of detail in HDR/DV is possibly clipped with an improperly set contrast. Between streaming and disc based playback, you may not need to touch contrast.

So, industry insider and disc display calibration author Stacey Spears of Spears and Munsil HD and just released HDR Benchmark disc. He has discovered his Sony Z9D clips some detail in his Dolby Vision Montage, reducing contrast brings up the detail, but currently, he lose some luminance, so HDR also lose that HDR pop.

With the Vizio, you lose luminance reducing contrast, but we can increase the backlight ti bring it back, while his Z9D backlight is maxed out. He's contacting Sony and supplying with a copy of his disc, inorder to get the clipping fixed.

You can test your content, and find that clouds have more detail or that clouds that have always been there weren't visible because they were being clipped.

Contrast at 45 on my display, set tone mapping up to 10,000 nits, so I have headroom. Backlight is at 56, and color is at stock.

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post #423 of 1508 Old 07-18-2019, 05:50 AM
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Guys, rtings stated that the TV always has some form of sharpening/edge enhancement on. Is this still occuring, even with a later update? They didn't update the review with anything, so I'm hoping it's not the case, because I kinda really wanna order one this weekend. I always use test patterns to check for things like this, and it'd bother me greatly if it's always applied.

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post #424 of 1508 Old 07-18-2019, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by DisplayCalNoob View Post
SDR you don't have to touch color, Contrast set to 48 clips at video white(253). Most SDR content has white detail above video white(235). Brightness will probably need to be increased 1 to eliminate any black crush.

HDR, specifically DV you shouldn't have to touch contrast at all. But, that requires Vizio team to have set it properly during factory calibration.

Its not done by most owners, because we were told that we shouldn't touch contrast. Problem is, no two panels are the same. So a lot of detail in HDR/DV is possibly clipped with an improperly set contrast. Between streaming and disc based playback, you may not need to touch contrast.

So, industry insider and disc display calibration author Stacey Spears of Spears and Munsil HD and just released HDR Benchmark disc. He has discovered his Sony Z9D clips some detail in his Dolby Vision Montage, reducing contrast brings up the detail, but currently, he lose some luminance, so HDR also lose that HDR pop.

With the Vizio, you lose luminance reducing contrast, but we can increase the backlight ti bring it back, while his Z9D backlight is maxed out. He's contacting Sony and supplying with a copy of his disc, inorder to get the clipping fixed.

You can test your content, and find that clouds have more detail or that clouds that have always been there weren't visible because they were being clipped.

Contrast at 45 on my display, set tone mapping up to 10,000 nits, so I have headroom. Backlight is at 56, and color is at stock.

Sent from my LGMP450 using Tapatalk
In my case with my unit I don't agree at all. I have tested SDR, HDR10 and DV.

SDR natively clips at 235, but when set to clip at 253 makes no visual difference with any content I have seen. Any time I have seen a bright highlight I will pause the show. Then test between 235 and 253 contrast settings. There is no visual difference with the at least 20+ shows I have done this with. Either most SDR content doesn't clip at 253 or I have had a very lucky streak of picking the rare 235 clipping shows. Also it doesn't matter what I set contrast to, if I raise brightness even 1 point my entire screen turns grey and black levels are all greyish. Not something I would recommend to anyone.

I have tested HDR10 and DV. Both hard clip at 10000nits on my unit. I used ryan.mascior patterns for both on a USB drive plugged into my TV directly.
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post #425 of 1508 Old 07-18-2019, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by skschatzman View Post
In my case with my unit I don't agree at all. I have tested SDR, HDR10 and DV.

SDR natively clips at 235, but when set to clip at 253 makes no visual difference with any content I have seen. Any time I have seen a bright highlight I will pause the show. Then test between 235 and 253 contrast settings. There is no visual difference with the at least 20+ shows I have done this with. Either most SDR content doesn't clip at 253 or I have had a very lucky streak of picking the rare 235 clipping shows. Also it doesn't matter what I set contrast to, if I raise brightness even 1 point my entire screen turns grey and black levels are all greyish. Not something I would recommend to anyone.

I have tested HDR10 and DV. Both hard clip at 10000nits on my unit. I used ryan.mascior patterns for both on a USB drive plugged into my TV directly.
Remember, SDR or HDR, you lose luminance. So if, you have your backlight set to reach SDR 100 nits or 120 nits, since you have reduced contrast your no longer at those calibrated nits. Also, reducing contrast affects color saturation and luminance.

HDR, the main purpose, is to test your display tone mapping. The fact that someone like Stacey Spears didn't know his Z9D 1900 peak nits clipped white detail, until he experienced his DV montage that regularly hits 4000 nits, compared to what he saw on the Dolby Pulsar when the montage was graded, is pretty revealing.

I've had my P55-C1 for 3 years now, the last firmware update, changed the color setting from 50 to 58. Thats a big jump after 3 years, so I don't trust Vizio team LUT calibration.

Visually, I see a difference in all the content that I have. More detail in clouds, detail in reflections, color is a lot better.





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post #426 of 1508 Old 07-18-2019, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by DisplayCalNoob View Post
Remember, SDR or HDR, you lose luminance. So if, you have your backlight set to reach SDR 100 nits or 120 nits, since you have reduced contrast your no longer at those calibrated nits. Also, reducing contrast affects color saturation and luminance.

HDR, the main purpose, is to test your display tone mapping. The fact that someone like Stacey Spears didn't know his Z9D 1900 peak nits clipped white detail, until he experienced his DV montage that regularly hits 4000 nits, compared to what he saw on the Dolby Pulsar when the montage was graded, is pretty revealing.

I've had my P55-C1 for 3 years now, the last firmware update, changed the color setting from 50 to 58. Thats a big jump after 3 years, so I don't trust Vizio team LUT calibration.

Visually, I see a difference in all the content that I have. More detail in clouds, detail in reflections, color is a lot better.





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I'm aware of how lowering contrast effects peak Luminance, but adjusting backlight to regain the lost peak Luminance from lowering contrast does nothing to improve the image. It only makes it brighter. I don't see any extra detail or visual impact to the image when lowering contrast and raising backlight to compensate.

Also raising brightness as you suggested by any amount will have a huge negative effect on black levels. Inky blacks are a must so this is a no go.
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post #427 of 1508 Old 07-18-2019, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by skschatzman View Post
I'm aware of how lowering contrast effects peak Luminance, but adjusting backlight to regain the lost peak Luminance from lowering contrast does nothing to improve the image. It only makes it brighter. I don't see any extra detail or visual impact to the image when lowering contrast and raising backlight to compensate.

Also raising brightness as you suggested by any amount will have a huge negative effect on black levels. Inky blacks are a must so this is a no go.
I don't touch brightness when it concerns HDR\DV. SDR yes, because depending on the display, lowering contrast can cause black. I test that with a pluge pattern, if 16 black is visible then I will not adjust.

If you see no difference, BD or UHD BD(HDMI), USB, antenna, and streaming(HDMI), through AVR or direct. Then you are in great shape.

All I know, is that on my current set up. After adjusting contrast, based on patterns available on a Sony UHD BD the display showed clipped white below 600-10k nits, now all that detail is visible.

Now, I can see all that clipped detail. My LG UHD player could be the culprit, but another Vizio owner that visits bluray.com forum, said his display clipped where mine does.

I wasn't implying, you knew nothing about the affects of lowering contrast, I didn't think you reset your settings.

Ultimately, the changes aren't permanently stored in the display.





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post #428 of 1508 Old 07-18-2019, 04:16 PM
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Oh, and DV isn't really a on the fly tech. You have to restart the content, then you can see how the tone mapping responds.



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post #429 of 1508 Old 07-18-2019, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by DisplayCalNoob View Post
Remember, SDR or HDR, you lose luminance. So if, you have your backlight set to reach SDR 100 nits or 120 nits, since you have reduced contrast your no longer at those calibrated nits. Also, reducing contrast affects color saturation and luminance.

HDR, the main purpose, is to test your display tone mapping. The fact that someone like Stacey Spears didn't know his Z9D 1900 peak nits clipped white detail, until he experienced his DV montage that regularly hits 4000 nits, compared to what he saw on the Dolby Pulsar when the montage was graded, is pretty revealing.

I've had my P55-C1 for 3 years now, the last firmware update, changed the color setting from 50 to 58. Thats a big jump after 3 years, so I don't trust Vizio team LUT calibration.

Visually, I see a difference in all the content that I have. More detail in clouds, detail in reflections, color is a lot better.





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About the 50-58 Color change....my PQ did that as well after an update. When I factory reset my display after the update it went back to 50.


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post #430 of 1508 Old 07-18-2019, 09:02 PM
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About the 50-58 Color change....my PQ did that as well after an update. When I factory reset my display after the update it went back to 50.


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Yeah, I did the factory reset immediately after the update.

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post #431 of 1508 Old 07-18-2019, 09:45 PM
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Got BB to match Costco for the 65. It'll arrive Saturday. I'm hoping the minor things are just that, minor. I'm worried about the display oversharpening the image at all times per Rtings claims of constant edge enhancement. Hopefully an update will fix that.

Also, getting BFI to work consistently which is the most important thing to me. I do know that on the P75-F1 in the living room, BFI only works if you have fald set to low. It disengages at med/hi. The P65-C1, bfi just stopped working altogether after the last update months ago. I think once Vizio gets a decently working update for these sets, I'm gonna turn off auto updates.

They really need to have a way to roll back fw.

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post #432 of 1508 Old 07-19-2019, 07:43 AM
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I don't touch brightness when it concerns HDR\DV. SDR yes, because depending on the display, lowering contrast can cause black. I test that with a pluge pattern, if 16 black is visible then I will not adjust.

If you see no difference, BD or UHD BD(HDMI), USB, antenna, and streaming(HDMI), through AVR or direct. Then you are in great shape.

All I know, is that on my current set up. After adjusting contrast, based on patterns available on a Sony UHD BD the display showed clipped white below 600-10k nits, now all that detail is visible.

Now, I can see all that clipped detail. My LG UHD player could be the culprit, but another Vizio owner that visits bluray.com forum, said his display clipped where mine does.

I wasn't implying, you knew nothing about the affects of lowering contrast, I didn't think you reset your settings.

Ultimately, the changes aren't permanently stored in the display.





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With the contrast differences set aside...

You are telling me that raising brightness by 1 or more does not impact your black levels? I would be very surprised by this as I have experience with over a dozen Vizio models that use the same settings base and not one of them has ever maintained inky blacks after raising brightness by 1 point.
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post #433 of 1508 Old 07-19-2019, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by DisplayCalNoob View Post
I don't touch brightness when it concerns HDR\DV. SDR yes, because depending on the display, lowering contrast can cause black. I test that with a pluge pattern, if 16 black is visible then I will not adjust.

If you see no difference, BD or UHD BD(HDMI), USB, antenna, and streaming(HDMI), through AVR or direct. Then you are in great shape.

All I know, is that on my current set up. After adjusting contrast, based on patterns available on a Sony UHD BD the display showed clipped white below 600-10k nits, now all that detail is visible.

Now, I can see all that clipped detail. My LG UHD player could be the culprit, but another Vizio owner that visits bluray.com forum, said his display clipped where mine does.

I wasn't implying, you knew nothing about the affects of lowering contrast, I didn't think you reset your settings.

Ultimately, the changes aren't permanently stored in the display.





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I thought this was essentially a fix for banding gradients but now it seems to be more about losing detail due to clipping.

Im a bit confused.
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post #434 of 1508 Old 07-19-2019, 11:25 AM
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With the contrast differences set aside...

You are telling me that raising brightness by 1 or more does not impact your black levels? I would be very surprised by this as I have experience with over a dozen Vizio models that use the same settings base and not one of them has ever maintained inky blacks after raising brightness by 1 point.
Yeah, my P55 when lowering contrast to get to 253 white, crushes blacks. One tick up in brightness fixes it.

Now back to HDR, I move the contrast back to stock, as well as the backlight to see what I was losing. I got fine pixel detail, debris that was present in explosions I now see.

When I reduced contrast to 45, I did a SDR Gain calibration to 100 nits. Then the settings were applied to DV. After switching the primary settings back to stock, along with what I saw in the above paragraph. Brighter highlights, with a appearance of a small boost of sharpness in bright scenes. All around, just more highlight detail.

Clouds were still there, but I lost the greater detail in them. Sky blue is a lighter shade, red is a lighter shade, blacks were inky. Some depth has been lost. Highlights popped more in dark scenes.

Next, I'll test with stock gain settings, and a slightly adjust backlight setting. I know that if I go higher than 56, it throws of the EOTF, because mid tone gets a positive boost, but bright light sources turn in to a blob of white.

I've tested two titles, Aquaman, and MI Fallout, both looked nice, but those deeper rich colors, were really nice. Hopefully, disc patterns for DV UHD BD will become available, using the proper Profile 7. Stacy, says he's figured out a way to get it done. Because R.Masicors patterns are Profile 5, which is a streaming profile.

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post #435 of 1508 Old 07-19-2019, 11:59 AM
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I thought this was essentially a fix for banding gradients but now it seems to be more about losing detail due to clipping.



Im a bit confused.
It was both, I've tested a couple settings to see if I could produce gradient banding in areas where there is not. If brightness control is increased, banding appears in dark colors, besides just getting gray blacks. Contrast to high produces banding in bright colors. Also there isn't much to find on the 2016 models.

I was able to produce the banding in Despicable Me DV UHD BD.

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post #436 of 1508 Old 07-19-2019, 12:31 PM
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Yeah, my P55 when lowering contrast to get to 253 white, crushes blacks. One tick up in brightness fixes it.

Now back to HDR, I move the contrast back to stock, as well as the backlight to see what I was losing. I got fine pixel detail, debris that was present in explosions I now see.

When I reduced contrast to 45, I did a SDR Gain calibration to 100 nits. Then the settings were applied to DV. After switching the primary settings back to stock, along with what I saw in the above paragraph. Brighter highlights, with a appearance of a small boost of sharpness in bright scenes. All around, just more highlight detail.

Clouds were still there, but I lost the greater detail in them. Sky blue is a lighter shade, red is a lighter shade, blacks were inky. Some depth has been lost. Highlights popped more in dark scenes.

Next, I'll test with stock gain settings, and a slightly adjust backlight setting. I know that if I go higher than 56, it throws of the EOTF, because mid tone gets a positive boost, but bright light sources turn in to a blob of white.

I've tested two titles, Aquaman, and MI Fallout, both looked nice, but those deeper rich colors, were really nice. Hopefully, disc patterns for DV UHD BD will become available, using the proper Profile 7. Stacy, says he's figured out a way to get it done. Because R.Masicors patterns are Profile 5, which is a streaming profile.

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You didn't even answer my question. Does your black levels stay inky after raising brightness? Have you tested this? This would be the first and only case I have seen where it does.
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post #437 of 1508 Old 07-19-2019, 12:50 PM
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You didn't even answer my question. Does your black levels stay inky after raising brightness? Have you tested this? This would be the first and only case I have seen where it does.
Yeah, I tested several SDR blurays, as well with pludge pattern.

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post #438 of 1508 Old 07-19-2019, 01:40 PM
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This is a step in the right direction, but I would still like to see it go further by changing the recommendation to leave it at the default of low. If the backlight is set to 100 (restricted to roughly 800nits Peak) and the image isn't bright enough for the lighting environment, then change the AFA to medium.

When they calibrate and turn off AFA, they don't realize the display still caps peak Luminance to roughly 800nits like the low setting does. By changing the setting to medium after calibration, the backlight becomes brighter to the native peak. This means the backlight setting of 1 no longer targets 100nits when set to medium. It is more close to 225-250nits on my unit. So dark room performance was too bright. I feel medium should be a recommendation only for extremely bright environments. Especially since they are targeting dark room performance in Calibration.
We're testing the M Series Quantum at the moment, and I'll make sure that the recommendation is clear. The minimum brightness of this TV with local dimming set to medium is definitely important for people to know when viewing in the dark (as-is the blooming as a result of this brightness). We will most likely provide two recommendations (one for those who watch in the dark, and one for those who want a brighter image for a bright room).
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post #439 of 1508 Old 07-19-2019, 02:08 PM
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We're testing the M Series Quantum at the moment, and I'll make sure that the recommendation is clear. The minimum brightness of this TV with local dimming set to medium is definitely important for people to know when viewing in the dark (as-is the blooming as a result of this brightness). We will most likely provide two recommendations (one for those who watch in the dark, and one for those who want a brighter image for a bright room).


Are you able to perform your tests with Local Dimming on Low as the primary and recommend Medium for a bright room....I just know that you test Samsung TV’s on the High setting which I believe is equivalent to Vizio’s on Low and the recommended setting for SDR (most picture modes default to Low).
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post #440 of 1508 Old 07-19-2019, 02:24 PM
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Yeah, I tested several SDR blurays, as well with pludge pattern.

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Then the settings you use are unique to that specific unit. I'm not saying that yours is the only one, but I'm willing to bet it is an uncommon occurrence. Every single Vizio display I have tested raising brightness on has increased inky blacks to dim milky grey.

I wouldn't recommend telling people to do this unless they have tested to see how the display handles the increase.
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post #441 of 1508 Old 07-19-2019, 03:21 PM
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We're testing the M Series Quantum at the moment, and I'll make sure that the recommendation is clear. The minimum brightness of this TV with local dimming set to medium is definitely important for people to know when viewing in the dark (as-is the blooming as a result of this brightness). We will most likely provide two recommendations (one for those who watch in the dark, and one for those who want a brighter image for a bright room).
This is timely, as it's very likely the behavior we're discussing happens with ALL the Vizio sets that include local dimming. Including that M Quantum you're testing now, and the P Quantum (non-X) in your queue. It'll be most dramatic on the PQX due to its extreme brightness, but I know setting local dimming to medium even on my 2018 P Series results in a brighter picture level than leaving it on low (in SDR).
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post #442 of 1508 Old 07-19-2019, 03:33 PM
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Then the settings you use are unique to that specific unit. I'm not saying that yours is the only one, but I'm willing to bet it is an uncommon occurrence. Every single Vizio display I have tested raising brightness on has increased inky blacks to dim milky grey.

I wouldn't recommend telling people to do this unless they have tested to see how the display handles the increase.
I assume most, if a change in blacks, went from inky black to gray, would immediately put the display back to its default setting.

Im going to test some more material.

But, on a more on topic note.

Here is a link to a BestBuy PDF with hardware details and marketing of the 2019 models.



e4d13442-c706-41c5-abeb-2317d51c9d80.pdf

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post #443 of 1508 Old 07-20-2019, 11:45 AM
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Received the TV. First thing I noticed was that unlike what rtings said, it DOES accept 1440p/60hz. I run my PC on HDMI 4, btw.

Also doing sharpness test patterns, I don't notice edge enhancement. Sharpness looks normal to me.

Next, Clear Action does works perfectly AS LONG long as you set it and don't adjust Active Full Array to Medium or High AFTERWARDS (Low AFA has proper CA/BFI no matter what). If you mess with AFA to Med or High, it will disengage Clear Action/BFI until you toggle CA back off and then back on. So if you're like me and use the BFI/Clear Action mode, always make sure to turn it off and back on if you mess with AFA.

Doing a side by side with the P65-C1, what a noticeable upgrade in contrast and black levels. It is REALLY impressive how dark the blacks get and how punchy it is. I was aiming for an LG C9, but I'm glad I got to experience the QX first, as I'm perfectly happy with this level of PQ for almost half the price.

Also noticed that clear action/BFI in HDR is still VERY bright, which wasn't the case with the P65-C1 back when the BFI worked properly.

So first impressions are very good. Things can change, but so far so good.

I do wish that HDR picture settings were separate from the SDR settings, though.

@DisplayCalNoob

Running test patterns, changing brightness to +1 immediately raises the black level to grey. It goes to perfect black as soon as I hit 50.
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post #444 of 1508 Old 07-20-2019, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raven Crimson View Post
Received the TV. First thing I noticed was that unlike what rtings said, it DOES accept 1440p/60hz. I run my PC on HDMI 4, btw.

Also doing sharpness test patterns, I don't notice edge enhancement. Sharpness looks normal to me.

Next, Clear Action does works perfectly AS LONG long as you set it and don't adjust Active Full Array to Medium or High AFTERWARDS (Low AFA has proper CA/BFI no matter what). If you mess with AFA to Med or High, it will disengage Clear Action/BFI until you toggle CA back off and then back on. So if you're like me and use the BFI/Clear Action mode, always make sure to turn it off and back on if you mess with AFA.

Doing a side by side with the P65-C1, what a noticeable upgrade in contrast and black levels. It is REALLY impressive how dark the blacks get and how punchy it is. I was aiming for an LG C9, but I'm glad I got to experience the QX first, as I'm perfectly happy with this level of PQ for almost half the price.

Also noticed that clear action/BFI in HDR is still VERY bright, which wasn't the case with the P65-C1 back when the BFI worked properly.

So first impressions are very good. Things can change, but so far so good.

I do wish that HDR picture settings were separate from the SDR settings, though.

@DisplayCalNoob

Running test patterns, changing brightness to +1 immediately raises the black level to grey. It goes to perfect black as soon as I hit 50.
So you are recommending a brightness of 50 and AFA set to low? Rtings said AFA was best at medium for hdr I believe. Anyway, pretty hyped to get mine next week.
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post #445 of 1508 Old 07-20-2019, 12:23 PM
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So you are recommending a brightness of 50 and AFA set to low? Rtings said AFA was best at medium for hdr I believe. Anyway, pretty hyped to get mine next week.
No, I have my AFA at medium. I'm saying that if you're gonna use Clear ACtion/BFI, if you set AFA to medium, make sure to toggle Clear Action off and then back to on. If you're gonna use AFA Low, you don't have to worry about turning Clear Action off and then back to on. It will engage properly on low. I think rtings had so many issues with Clear ACtion because they were doing their full suite of testing. So probably constantly adjusting AFA, messing up Clear Action. Though I don't understand why they couldn't get 1440p/60 to work. Worked for me every time.

On my set yes, 50 brightness seems to be the right setting.

I'm sad 1080p/120hz still looks pixellated. Samsung and the others don't have that weird 120hz mode that Vizio has had for years, where things don't look quite right.

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post #446 of 1508 Old 07-20-2019, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raven Crimson View Post
Received the TV. First thing I noticed was that unlike what rtings said, it DOES accept 1440p/60hz. I run my PC on HDMI 4, btw.



Also doing sharpness test patterns, I don't notice edge enhancement. Sharpness looks normal to me.



Next, Clear Action does works perfectly AS LONG long as you set it and don't adjust Active Full Array to Medium or High AFTERWARDS (Low AFA has proper CA/BFI no matter what). If you mess with AFA to Med or High, it will disengage Clear Action/BFI until you toggle CA back off and then back on. So if you're like me and use the BFI/Clear Action mode, always make sure to turn it off and back on if you mess with AFA.



Doing a side by side with the P65-C1, what a noticeable upgrade in contrast and black levels. It is REALLY impressive how dark the blacks get and how punchy it is. I was aiming for an LG C9, but I'm glad I got to experience the QX first, as I'm perfectly happy with this level of PQ for almost half the price.



Also noticed that clear action/BFI in HDR is still VERY bright, which wasn't the case with the P65-C1 back when the BFI worked properly.



So first impressions are very good. Things can change, but so far so good.



I do wish that HDR picture settings were separate from the SDR settings, though.



@DisplayCalNoob



Running test patterns, changing brightness to +1 immediately raises the black level to grey. It goes to perfect black as soon as I hit 50.
I wouldn't suggest increasing brightness, unless you chose to lower contrast enough that it affected blacks.

If your experiencing gradient banding, I would do a backlight test of lowering it by the numbers or switching between the different AFA settings to see what is causing it.

Reduce contrast as well to see if it affects positively or negatively. If your just happy with the PQ, sit back and enjoy the ride.

Sent from my LGMP450 using Tapatalk
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post #447 of 1508 Old 07-20-2019, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by DisplayCalNoob View Post
I wouldn't suggest increasing brightness, unless you chose to lower contrast enough that it affected blacks.

If your experiencing gradient banding, I would do a backlight test of lowering it by the numbers or switching between the different AFA settings to see what is causing it.

Reduce contrast as well to see if it affects positively or negatively. If your just happy with the PQ, sit back and enjoy the ride.

Sent from my LGMP450 using Tapatalk
If and when I notice banding, I'll make sure to try that out.

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post #448 of 1508 Old 07-20-2019, 07:41 PM
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No, I have my AFA at medium. I'm saying that if you're gonna use Clear ACtion/BFI, if you set AFA to medium, make sure to toggle Clear Action off and then back to on. If you're gonna use AFA Low, you don't have to worry about turning Clear Action off and then back to on. It will engage properly on low. I think rtings had so many issues with Clear ACtion because they were doing their full suite of testing. So probably constantly adjusting AFA, messing up Clear Action. Though I don't understand why they couldn't get 1440p/60 to work. Worked for me every time.



On my set yes, 50 brightness seems to be the right setting.



I'm sad 1080p/120hz still looks pixellated. Samsung and the others don't have that weird 120hz mode that Vizio has had for years, where things don't look quite right.


Can you explain when you would want to use Clear Action/BFI?


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post #449 of 1508 Old 07-20-2019, 08:00 PM
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Can you explain when you would want to use Clear Action/BFI?


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Mainly video games. Though sports can benefit.

Essentially, Clear Action/BFI eliminates a specific type of motion blur. So everything in motion will look sharper, more defined. It gets rid of persistence blur/eye tracking motion blur.

So say you're playing a game like Sonic the Hedgehog, and he's zipping past enemies, trees, etc. With CA/BFI, those enemies and trees will look almost as defined as if they weren't moving at all.

BFI can and does actually make a world of difference compared to just brute forcing higher fps. For instance, an object moving along at 120fps without bfi, will not look sharper than than it moving at 60fps with bfi enabled. The 120fps object will have more frames, obviously, but the quality of each frame will be less detailed than the 60fps object that has CA/bfi enabled.

Unlike motion interpolation, it doesn't add a gross amount of input lag.

If you look at the rtings review and go down to the black frame insertion section, you can see that the logo is highly defined compared to the logo in the response time section. Both these logos were taken as they were in motion.

Mind you, there's more types of blur than just persistence blur. Movies and other general non-gaming media tends to have motion blur already embedded in the source, so that kind of blur can't be eliminated (things like camera blur). But in video games where motion blur may be turned off, or there is only a small amount, you gain a huge benefit. You're effectively getting rid of the worst kind of blur, but not display response time ghosting, sources (like games with motion blur turned on) or files (intended or otherwise, like slow shutter speed camera blur).

Also it's considerably more effective than even an OLED's instant reponse time (since again, response Time ghosting is not as obvious as persistence blur). Response time being fast is one thing, but it's still restricted to the same general persistence as lcds, so you still get a blurry moving image. Though nowadays OLED also tend to have modes that reduce persistence blur, though it's a little different than an LCDs BFI, and not quite as effective.


LCD BFI is not perfect, as it introduces screen flicker which may be bothersome. But I found that once you let your eyes adjust to it, you stop noticing it as much/or it just stops bothering. As someone who grew up with CRTs and plasmas that flickered at 60hz, this doesn't bother me in the least.

In short, I find it incredibly beneficial for video games first and foremost. I don't really use it outside of that. There's tech for gaming monitors that are essentially the same thing but do it at higher fps (like Nvidia ULMB).

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post #450 of 1508 Old 07-21-2019, 06:06 AM
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Wink Vizio PX vs Samsung Q80/Q90 vs Sony X950G

I ordered the Vizio PX75 yesterday from Costco online. I also considered other LED TVs, such as Sony X950G and Samsung Q80 and Q90 TVs. I have a very bright room so I did not consider OLED TVs at all. I based my shortlist on rtings reviews and Digital Trends youtube videos, such as this one:

Compared Vizio P-Series Quantum X and Sony X950G -

My take away is all of these TVs are pretty good and they are all in the same ballpark. The consensus best TV is probably the Samsung Q90 because it has better wide viewing angles, better video upscaling of 480/720 content, and better audio. The Samsung Q90 is also the most expensive. According to rtings reviews/comparisons the Samsung Q80 and the Vizio PX75 have no significant differences. Samsung Q80 has better wide viewing angles, better video upscaling of 480/720 content, and better audio. Vizio PX75 is brighter than Samsung Q80 and Q90, has comparable picture quality, and is cheaper than both Samsung TVs. The Sony X950G may also have a bit better video upscaling of 480/720 content than Vizio PX75, but the picture quality of both TVs seem comparable. There are no significant differences in picture quality according to the Digital Trends video link above between Vizio PX75 and Sony X950G. The Sony X950G has better audio and better smart TV functionality (android TV), but the Vizio PX75 is brighter and cheaper than Sony X950G.

So bottom line is these are all pretty good TVs, and I would be happy with any of them. If price is a factor you gotta consider the Vizio PQ/PX TVs. If you have Tall Cash, the Sony and Samsung TVs both have a bit better video upscaling of 480/720 content and better audio than Vizio PX TVs. I had the Vizio PQ65 last year for a couple of months then returned it to Costco. I really liked it and it was very bright to overcome the afternoon sun in my West facing living room with two-story windows. The picture quality was great too. Is it absolutely the best picture quality of any LED TV on the market? I doubt it. The Vizio PQ/PX TVs are not perfect. No TV is perfect. Sony and Samsung TVs have minor issues too. If you decide to save some $$ and buy a Vizio you will be happy. If you buy a Samsung or Sony TV you will be very happy as well. Grab any of these TVs and you'll be fine.

Another TV you may want to consider waiting for is the TCL 8-series. The specs sound amazing, but pricing has not been announced and who knows when it will be available? How difficult will it be to get one this Fall?? I may regret not waiting to find out.


Last edited by teachsac; 07-21-2019 at 06:38 AM. Reason: Deal’s talk
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