2019 Vizio P-Series Quantum X - Owner's Thread - No Price Talk - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 1939 Old 05-30-2019, 07:02 PM
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I’m looking forward to getting this in Canada. Is there bad offgassing? That’s the only thing I don’t like is that yucky smell that Vizio TVs give off


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post #32 of 1939 Old 05-30-2019, 08:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Interstellar - looks, well... STELLAR! MORE PICS

Howdy again folks!

Posting some more pics - this time, Interstellar, 4K HDR.

Some notes...

Most (of what appears to be) blooming you see in the pics is in the content, not from the TV's backlight.
Anything that actually is blooming is absolutely 100% only in the pic - it was not in the image.
No joke - the black levels the TV produced for this movie were unbelievable. Truly amazing.
Anything that is white/bright - the camera cannot render how bright these objects actually are. What you will clearly see is no light bleed, at all, not even into the black bars.
The image onscreen was tack-sharp, beautifully rendered.

I saw ZERO banding in this movie, in none of the scenes, including the duststorms.

I have 2 videos I took of the scenes where the Endurance is spinning while they're trying to dock & match the spin. There are flashes of white & black & bright light against the black and the videos totally show - zero blooming/light bleed.

I was blown away by how perfectly the Quantum X rendered this movie. Truly stunning.

Make no mistake - the blacks rivaled OLED. THe brights - especially shots of Gargantua were just unreal.
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post #33 of 1939 Old 05-30-2019, 09:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kensingtonwick View Post
I’m looking forward to getting this in Canada. Is there bad offgassing? That’s the only thing I don’t like is that yucky smell that Vizio TVs give off


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Absolutely no off-gassing or weird smell coming from this TV.
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post #34 of 1939 Old 05-30-2019, 09:27 PM - Thread Starter
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AVATAR is AVFAB on this TV - More pics for you rabid dogs! :)

I have the standard Avatar BluRay. I have to be honest - I absolutely hate this movie. Soon as the guy called the rock "unobtainium" it lost me. Might has well have called it difficulttogettium. But it sure is pretty to look at. As you shall see below....

No banding.
No blooming.
No gradient banding.
Some noticeable dirty screen effect, but in the rarest of scenes.
TACK SHARP picture again.
I saw no "zone crawl" or brightness flickering during pans or scrolling. (Same with Interstellar.)
BLACKS ARE BLACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WOW WOW WOW!

This movie simply looks amazing on this TV. Extremely vibrant colors.
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post #35 of 1939 Old 05-30-2019, 09:34 PM - Thread Starter
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More AVATAR pics

Some more Avatar for you to ogle. My eyes are up here.

OH - the haze around the planets is the atmosphere, not blooming.
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post #36 of 1939 Old 05-31-2019, 02:35 AM
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Tech Radar review just came out:
https://www.techradar.com/reviews/vi...ntum-x-px65-g1
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post #37 of 1939 Old 05-31-2019, 06:23 AM
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Hopefully someone will be able to give some comparison/contrasts to the 2018 PQ.
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post #38 of 1939 Old 05-31-2019, 06:25 AM
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Can you comment on the SDR content / upscaling? No doubt the 4k/HDR is great, but what about watching sports over cable? My Samsung Q80R is disappointing with this. Wide panning shots look soft and muddy. I'm looking for something with a sharp defined look.
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post #39 of 1939 Old 05-31-2019, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcervinojr View Post
Can you comment on the SDR content / upscaling? No doubt the 4k/HDR is great, but what about watching sports over cable? My Samsung Q80R is disappointing with this. Wide panning shots look soft and muddy. I'm looking for something with a sharp defined look.
Sony 950G with the X1 Ultimate processor might be your best bet in that regard.
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post #40 of 1939 Old 05-31-2019, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MashCT View Post
Some more Avatar for you to ogle. My eyes are up here.

OH - the haze around the planets is the atmosphere, not blooming.
Cool, thanks for sharing.

For the banding (my main concern). I tried to find some images/references for the 2018 model but came up dry. We'll see as more owners get these panels. Also seems like a later firmware update improved the banding on the 2018 models.

I'm talking about color banding. Not the vertical dark bars panel defect people have they mistakenly called banding.
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post #41 of 1939 Old 06-01-2019, 08:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptinCrunch View Post
Simple answer here, NO. The Q80 is a far better tv than anything Vizio is going to put out. Sammy's have the best reflection filters in the game right now.
I would say if you haven't seen the TV, you can't really say "no". While other TVs may handle reflections better, the Vizio is no slouch in this department. I am not picking up any reflections of my table lamps - the brightness of the image cancels out reflections easily.

The screen is effective at diffusing reflections - I've shined my cell phone flashlight at it & I can see it, but you're going to see that on every other TV, too.

Reflection handling is not what I would make the decision on. If your TV sits opposite a wall of windows that face the sun, well... what TV is gonna handle that?

You'd have to have a lot of direct light opposite your TV to worry about reflection handling.
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post #42 of 1939 Old 06-01-2019, 08:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Cold View Post
Look at that Gradient Banding. How is that acceptable? That would not happen on a 2019 LG OLED C8. ( I am guessing)

Nice TV but a 65” P Series Quantum X at 65” 384 Zones.

The Banding is a deal breaker. I pray a Firmware Update can solve the Banding and Dimming zones issue but with 384 Zones Vizio is probably just waiting and gathering Meta Data on things people watch before adjusting the Local Dimming algorithm.
I am beginning to think the gradient banding I observed in The Last Jedi is actually content related & because it was Netflix.

I say that because Interstellar, which has numerous scenes where gradient banding should happen, I didn't see any. I did not see any in Avatar either.

I did get it in the HDR Bladerunner 2049, and in some cable box content.

I am about to watch Sleepy Hollow & The Others. Due to the dark scenes, foggy scenes, smokey scenes, I am sure these movies will test the gradients for sure. They are standard DVD, though, so it could be content/format related.

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post #43 of 1939 Old 06-01-2019, 08:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcervinojr View Post
Can you comment on the SDR content / upscaling? No doubt the 4k/HDR is great, but what about watching sports over cable? My Samsung Q80R is disappointing with this. Wide panning shots look soft and muddy. I'm looking for something with a sharp defined look.
Upscaling quality on this TV is highly dependent on the quality of the content.

News channels - looks like the people are in the damn room. Like a window. Impressive.
I am watching the French Open - it looks amazing. Again, like a window. I see zero motion issues.
I just watched Silver Bullet on IFC through my cable box. That movie came out in 1985. It looked like a movie that came out in 1985. And, it looked like film. The Vizio introduced no noise & rendered a nice picture - absolutely nothing distracting or low quality about the image. If you're looking for a 1985 standard def film to look 4K - that just ain't gonna happen. If you want it to look natural - the Vizio pulled it off. If this TV doesn't score better than the PQ, I would be surprised. If it scores the same as the PQ, then my question would be - why all the fuss?

I've yet to watch anything on this TV where I said the picture is terrible. In fact, it impresses more than it disappoints. (Aside from the gradient banding when it rears its ugly head.)

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Last edited by MashCT; 06-02-2019 at 07:32 AM.
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post #44 of 1939 Old 06-01-2019, 08:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Some off-axis Avatar images for you!

Howdy again folks!

Took some off-axis pics for y'all. Keep in mind - these are cell phone pics from my Samsung Galaxy S7.

I'd estimate I am 40-45 degrees off axis. Blooming is somewhat more noticeable, but I wouldn't call it distracting (yet). That doesn't happen until I sit way more off-axis, shallower to the screen.

Colors still look natural, rich & vibrant but definitely less so than when sitting in front. Contrast is somewhat reduced, too. But, I will say this - sitting in this spot for a while, your eyes adjust & the picture quality looks normal. No one sitting at this angle is going to complain about a poor picture.

You really only notice it if you move from right in front to off to the side or vice versa.

You will be impressed with this TV's off axis performance. Granted I have no other LCD/LED to compare it to - just my plasma. But look at the pics - not too shabby, eh?
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post #45 of 1939 Old 06-02-2019, 07:16 PM
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The gradient banding, I think is actually a issue with Vizio limited experience with high peak brightness and quantum dot technology. The wide color gamut and high peL brightness in connection with their image processing, appears to be way off.

For the past three years, Vizio kept the P55-C1 with a IPS panel, at the same color setting as a P65/75 although they use a different panel technology. IPS panels produce a wider color gamut than VA panels, because they let through more light, but they also have worse blacks than VA panels.

It wasn't until a recently released firmware update they changed the color setting. It fixed posterization in yellow, red is red when saturation is increased along with high brightness. There is no gradient banding at all.

Either the PQ and PQX panels are 8 bit with dithering(FRC) or they need to work on image processing and color correction.





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post #46 of 1939 Old 06-02-2019, 07:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DisplayCalNoob View Post
The gradient banding, I think is actually a issue with Vizio limited experience with high peak brightness and quantum dot technology. The wide color gamut and high peL brightness in connection with their image processing, appears to be way off.

For the past three years, Vizio kept the P55-C1 with a IPS panel, at the same color setting as a P65/75 although they use a different panel technology. IPS panels produce a wider color gamut than VA panels, because they let through more light, but they also have worse blacks than VA panels.

It wasn't until a recently released firmware update they changed the color setting. It fixed posterization in yellow, red is red when saturation is increased along with high brightness. There is no gradient banding at all.

Either the PQ and PQX panels are 8 bit with dithering(FRC) or they need to work on image processing and color correction.

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I doubt the Vizio PQ or PQX are 8 bit panels. No review said the PQ is 8 bit & both are advertised as 10 bit panels. And I doubt Vizio went backwards for 2019 - especially on their flagship.

Oddly, when I called Vizio they gave me a bunch of color settings to change & they didn't do anything other than mess the colors up. I didn't like the result - looked pasty. Just mentioning because coincidentally, you mention color settings/correction.

Considering even some Sonys & OLEDs don't have perfect gradients - they're darn close! - with Sony using that gradient setting they're so famous for - I am more likely to suspect Vizio's processing capabilities versus their misleading people through false advertising/specs.

Vizio has to compromise somewhere to do what they do at their price point. Unfortunately, my guess is a few more ducats in price to get it right is something videophiles would gladly pay for a flagship display so why they compromised here is a headscratcher. Their cheaper displays - yes, cut corners to satisfy the masses.

I wonder if they could produce a firmware upgrade that introduces a setting like Sony's we could adjust (?) I think Sony's works via dithering (anyone know for sure?) and I wonder if that can be done with settings or if it's a hardware thing. I don't know enough about such technowhatsitwisardry, only what it is. LOL

Honestly, if Vizio can find a way to fix gradients (assuming my panel isn't defection, which Vizio thinks it is) then the PQX is a keeper & a force to be reckoned with.

If there are still issues... well.. Sony A9 65" for me.

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post #47 of 1939 Old 06-03-2019, 09:38 AM
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Linus Tech Tips Review

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post #48 of 1939 Old 06-03-2019, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MashCT View Post
I doubt the Vizio PQ or PQX are 8 bit panels. No review said the PQ is 8 bit & both are advertised as 10 bit panels. And I doubt Vizio went backwards for 2019 - especially on their flagship.



Oddly, when I called Vizio they gave me a bunch of color settings to change & they didn't do anything other than mess the colors up. I didn't like the result - looked pasty. Just mentioning because coincidentally, you mention color settings/correction.



Considering even some Sonys & OLEDs don't have perfect gradients - they're darn close! - with Sony using that gradient setting they're so famous for - I am more likely to suspect Vizio's processing capabilities versus their misleading people through false advertising/specs.



Vizio has to compromise somewhere to do what they do at their price point. Unfortunately, my guess is a few more ducats in price to get it right is something videophiles would gladly pay for a flagship display so why they compromised here is a headscratcher. Their cheaper displays - yes, cut corners to satisfy the masses.



I wonder if they could produce a firmware upgrade that introduces a setting like Sony's we could adjust (?) I think Sony's works via dithering (anyone know for sure?) and I wonder if that can be done with settings or if it's a hardware thing. I don't know enough about such technowhatsitwisardry, only what it is. LOL



Honestly, if Vizio can find a way to fix gradients (assuming my panel isn't defection, which Vizio thinks it is) then the PQX is a keeper & a force to be reckoned with.



If there are still issues... well.. Sony A9 65" for me.
I don't really think they are using 8 bit panels, but believe that they do have issues with color correction, color tracking. Particularly dealing with Quantum Dot, the display shouldn't have gradient banding issues. I believe these displays have 12 bit processing.

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This is probably a really dumb question ... but why does the 75” version have fewer peak nits than the 65”? Is it normal that larger sets are slightly lower in peak brightness?
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post #50 of 1939 Old 06-04-2019, 11:16 AM
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Comparison video between PX and Sony 950G.
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post #51 of 1939 Old 06-04-2019, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chunter1001 View Post
This is probably a really dumb question ... but why does the 75” version have fewer peak nits than the 65”? Is it normal that larger sets are slightly lower in peak brightness?
What makes you think the 75 has lower brightness? It shouldn't
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What makes you think the 75 has lower brightness? It shouldn't


Specs say 27 or 2800 nits on the 75” and 3000 on the 65”


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post #53 of 1939 Old 06-04-2019, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by PlanetAVS View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunter1001 View Post
This is probably a really dumb question ... but why does the 75” version have fewer peak nits than the 65”? Is it normal that larger sets are slightly lower in peak brightness?
What makes you think the 75 has lower brightness? It shouldn't
Exactly. But all of the specs I’ve seen stated show the 65” at 3000 and the 75” at 2700.
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post #54 of 1939 Old 06-04-2019, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by kensingtonwick View Post
Specs say 27 or 2800 nits on the 75” and 3000 on the 65”


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Originally Posted by chunter1001 View Post
Exactly. But all of the specs I’ve seen stated show the 65” at 3000 and the 75” at 2700.
Now that you bring it up, I see what you mean. I don't see a specific reference to the nit level but the 65" has a marketing feature called "UltraBright 3000", whereas for the 75" the feature is called "UltraBright 2700".

@VizioService , can you comment on this?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingBeef79 View Post

Comparison video between PX and Sony 950G.

Caleb says a lot of the same things I do - especially note that he said the PQX could compete with the premium sets from the big 3. But unfortunately, gradient banding is an issue on my TV & I am seeing more of it, the more content I watch (mostly cable). Keep in mind, Vizio is saying it could be a defect. And the brightness of this TV & FALD algorithm continue to reveal shortcomings.

I just experienced another viewing issue. This is visible on both the High & Medium FALD settings. I did not try low because the picture is just too dim.

I watched The Revenant. For the most part, this movie looked as gorgeous as you hear/read about. Extremely life-like/realistic. Stunning & shocking at the same time. Any scene where folks are sitting around the fire or candelight looks so real & "in the room" you swear you could touch them. Scenes where embers lift up into the night sky were rendered beautifully. Shadow detail was exquisite - absolutely no noise, no banding & no black crush. Motion, for the most part, was spot-on perfect, even in panning scenes. Some panning shots were just the right speed for stutter to be visible. But - no artifacts at least, even in fast moving objects.

Scenes that fade to black, or fade up from black, I saw no gradient banding & the fade was extremely smooth. And as I have stated before - BLACK IS BLACK. You do not see black bars in a dark room, and black scenes look flippin' absolute black.

However...

Subtitles - especially in dark scenes - would light up the entire scene. Not really "blooming" - the picture would brighten. For example, the very dark scene where all you see is the Native American's face & he's talking; DiCaprio is in the shadows in the background... when the subtitles appeared, the face brightened. The black stayed blank - but the face lit up slightly, and it is substantially enough away from the subtitle to be in an entirely different zone.

Other dark scenes, the exact same effect - the entire scene brightened. I found this to be very distracting. I will take & post pics - hopefully it will be visible.

And because this movie frequently switches between dark & light scenes (even during the day, when there is a window or snow in the background of one person, but a wall or dark forest/mountains behind the other) that light lag I spoke of in my initial post was very much evident & distracting.

Lastly, I had to sit DIRECTLY in front of the TV - and I mean DIRECTLY - to minimize any hint of bloom. If I laid down on the couch, or sat on the left or right cushion of my couch which changes the angle of view by 5-10 degrees TOPS, blooming was apparent.

This movie is so heavy on mood, proper scene lighting, a lot of night & twilight/dusk scenes & emphasizing the dynamic range of actual real-life scenery (bright snow against dark woods/mountains), there is simply no escaping this issue. This TV is bright & I found no satisfactory backlight setting to minimize the effect & keep the picture bright enough to watch & enjoy.

HDR - no doubt, absolutely stunning specular highlights. Fire, sun in the trees/between clouds, setting over a mountain... jaw droppingly real.

The more I watch, I am definitely leaning towards OLED as I just can't tolerate the visible backlight/FALD at work.
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post #56 of 1939 Old 06-04-2019, 12:55 PM
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2019 Vizio P-Series Quantum X - Owner's Thread - No Price Talk

Quote:
Originally Posted by chunter1001 View Post
This is probably a really dumb question ... but why does the 75” version have fewer peak nits than the 65”? Is it normal that larger sets are slightly lower in peak brightness?


I would be willing to be we are coming up to the limits of what can be achieved with power supplies and still being able to meet Energy Star requirements. 75 inch has more zones, hence requires more power...

I think as far as backlit LCD displays 3-4000 nits will be the max for peak brightness in consumer sets.



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post #57 of 1939 Old 06-04-2019, 02:18 PM
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Reviewed.com reviewed both the PQ (last year) and the PQX today. After reading both, I found them to be very similar.
PQ PQX
Score 9.1 9.1
SDR black level 0.06 0.076
SDR Reference brightness 340 354
SDR color gamut 99% 98%
HDR black level 0.15 0.081
HDR Reference brightness 797 642.8
HDR pick brightness 2,391 over 2,500
HDR color gamut 96% 95%

Suggest you read both reviews and come up to your own conclusion.

https://www.reviewed.com/televisions...um-x-tv-review

https://www.reviewed.com/televisions...ntum-tv-review

Can someone who has/had experience with both shed some light here?
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post #58 of 1939 Old 06-04-2019, 06:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meduzadg View Post
Reviewed.com reviewed both the PQ (last year) and the PQX today. After reading both, I found them to be very similar.
PQ PQX
Score 9.1 9.1
SDR black level 0.06 0.076
SDR Reference brightness 340 354
SDR color gamut 99% 98%
HDR black level 0.15 0.081
HDR Reference brightness 797 642.8
HDR pick brightness 2,391 over 2,500
HDR color gamut 96% 95%

Suggest you read both reviews and come up to your own conclusion.

https://www.reviewed.com/televisions...um-x-tv-review

https://www.reviewed.com/televisions...ntum-tv-review

Can someone who has/had experience with both shed some light here?
I also watched the Digital Trends side by side with the Sony. One thing I have not done is turn on any ambient lighting, nor try to use the "Low" FALD setting.

I am going to rewatch The Revenant, and then try Gravity & Moon with that setting - and try "Calibrated Dark" mode. I like watching movies in the dark, but because of what the above reviewer said about this TV's performance in bright rooms - and my penchant for wanting to lie down to watch TV, which puts me 3-4' off center - I am going to try it & see if the blooming is reduced enough that I can tolerate it.

And if I still pick up that "light lag" I keep seeing.

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post #59 of 1939 Old 06-05-2019, 05:23 AM
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I also watched the Digital Trends side by side with the Sony. One thing I have not done is turn on any ambient lighting, nor try to use the "Low" FALD setting.

I am going to rewatch The Revenant, and then try Gravity & Moon with that setting - and try "Calibrated Dark" mode. I like watching movies in the dark, but because of what the above reviewer said about this TV's performance in bright rooms - and my penchant for wanting to lie down to watch TV, which puts me 3-4' off center - I am going to try it & see if the blooming is reduced enough that I can tolerate it.

And if I still pick up that "light lag" I keep seeing.
What's odd is that the reviewer doesn't see a noticeable contrast difference in real world viewing side by side. That sony wide angle screen likely has under 4k contrast while the Vizio is likely well above 10K with over twice the brightness and lots more zones. I actually don't doubt the review but it's an interesting take. I hope he's correct about the upscaling etc and vizio has upped their processing.
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post #60 of 1939 Old 06-05-2019, 06:56 AM
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I also watched the Digital Trends side by side with the Sony. One thing I have not done is turn on any ambient lighting, nor try to use the "Low" FALD setting.



I am going to rewatch The Revenant, and then try Gravity & Moon with that setting - and try "Calibrated Dark" mode. I like watching movies in the dark, but because of what the above reviewer said about this TV's performance in bright rooms - and my penchant for wanting to lie down to watch TV, which puts me 3-4' off center - I am going to try it & see if the blooming is reduced enough that I can tolerate it.



And if I still pick up that "light lag" I keep seeing.


The whole narrow viewing angle thing is certainly a shortcoming of these TVs. It really only takes leaning slightly to the left or right whilst sitting dead centre to see that contrast wash out in a hurry. Your only saving grace is to drop down your brightness to 20 or 30 while at an extreme angle such as 45°. It’s not the perfect solution and it will crush detail but it will bring back some contrast if you’re forced to watch at an angle.


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