2019 Vizio P-Series Quantum X - Owner's Thread - No Price Talk - Page 45 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 439Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1321 of 1970 Old 11-03-2019, 08:07 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
skschatzman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 3,754
Mentioned: 80 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2840 Post(s)
Liked: 1659
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rew452 View Post
1. Color Banding sometimes refereed to as Jailbars
2. DSE -Dirty Screen Effect
1. Color Banding has never been referred to as Jail Bars effect. Color Banding and Jail Bars effect are not the same thing and have completely different meaning. Color banding is when there is a part of a scene with multiple contrasting colors, but appear to be shown as one color.
Jail Bars effect is a uniformity issue caused by manufacturing. It appears as static visual unevenness. Every panel ever made has some level of this and is also refered to as DSE.

Last edited by skschatzman; 11-03-2019 at 08:20 AM.
skschatzman is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #1322 of 1970 Old 11-03-2019, 08:32 AM
Member
 
puppydg68's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 149
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked: 12
I think one of the biggest downsides of this panel, is I use it heavily for gaming, PC 4k, PS4 Pro, Xbox. It seems all of the panel uniformity, banding/jailbars are most noticeable during gaming and sports. If you are just going to watch movies and watch TV. The uniformity won't be as noticeable. And its just luck of the draw, the jailbars on my current set are clearly much worse than the previous 2 sets, for the most part turning enhance viewing angle eliminated them before, but not on this panel. I'm pretty sure if the RTNG's guys got any of the panels that have been discussed in this thread, they're review wouldn't have been so good, I think they hit a lucky panel off the top. The crazy thing is for the price and features there isn't a big brand that can match. There is no clear go to panel for me, I just wished a had a good Vizio. Anything else, Sony, Samsung - all missing some features i want for more money. X900f only 2 full UHD hdmi ports, higher input lag for gaming, X950G - no DTS passthrough ARC or optical, Samsung Q80, no Dolby vision.
puppydg68 is offline  
post #1323 of 1970 Old 11-03-2019, 09:13 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 23
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 0
I'm sorry if this is considered off topic (feel free to tell me so).



I will be picking up a PX65 - assuming they don't sell out faster than I can get my hands on a set. However, our budget will be seriously strained by a PX purchase and I don't have money for a stand. My current stand is a desk from a second hand store and it has worked great for my gear but even with my current 43" the TV is too tall for our room. It also is nowhere close to wide enough for the chicken feet stands Vizio uses. Does anyone have any ideas on modifications to my current stand or some other idea that wouldn't cost more than $40ish? Wall mounting is not an option due to the room and rental agreements. I'm open to pretty much any idea. I posted pictures of my setup to help with ideas.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	photo_2019-11-03_11-03-40.jpg
Views:	50
Size:	174.3 KB
ID:	2635942   Click image for larger version

Name:	photo_2019-11-03_11-03-37.jpg
Views:	38
Size:	172.4 KB
ID:	2635944   Click image for larger version

Name:	photo_2019-11-03_11-03-33.jpg
Views:	39
Size:	167.9 KB
ID:	2635946  

Last edited by teachsac; 11-03-2019 at 11:06 AM. Reason: Price/deal talk removed
danni13 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #1324 of 1970 Old 11-03-2019, 12:38 PM
Senior Member
 
Briguy65's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 291
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 106 Post(s)
Liked: 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by danni13 View Post
I'm sorry if this is considered off topic (feel free to tell me so).



I will be picking up a PX65 - assuming they don't sell out faster than I can get my hands on a set. However, our budget will be seriously strained by a PX purchase and I don't have money for a stand. My current stand is a desk from a second hand store and it has worked great for my gear but even with my current 43" the TV is too tall for our room. It also is nowhere close to wide enough for the chicken feet stands Vizio uses. Does anyone have any ideas on modifications to my current stand or some other idea that wouldn't cost more than $40ish? Wall mounting is not an option due to the room and rental agreements. I'm open to pretty much any idea. I posted pictures of my setup to help with ideas.

How wide is that window behind the television? It looks like it might be wide enough for the feet (not certain about the depth) of the existing legs of the PX65. Plus it will bring the television down lower as well.
Briguy65 is offline  
post #1325 of 1970 Old 11-03-2019, 01:06 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 23
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Briguy65 View Post
How wide is that window behind the television? It looks like it might be wide enough for the feet (not certain about the depth) of the existing legs of the PX65. Plus it will bring the television down lower as well.

It crossed my mind as well but the window is well off center of the room (the right side of the TV would be obscured by the right channel).
danni13 is offline  
post #1326 of 1970 Old 11-04-2019, 07:05 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 190
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 151 Post(s)
Liked: 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by danni13 View Post
I'm sorry if this is considered off topic (feel free to tell me so).



I will be picking up a PX65 - assuming they don't sell out faster than I can get my hands on a set. However, our budget will be seriously strained by a PX purchase and I don't have money for a stand. My current stand is a desk from a second hand store and it has worked great for my gear but even with my current 43" the TV is too tall for our room. It also is nowhere close to wide enough for the chicken feet stands Vizio uses. Does anyone have any ideas on modifications to my current stand or some other idea that wouldn't cost more than $40ish? Wall mounting is not an option due to the room and rental agreements. I'm open to pretty much any idea. I posted pictures of my setup to help with ideas.
This TV is under 1k at a Sams Club right now. That should give you money for a stand
Gdog2015 is offline  
post #1327 of 1970 Old 11-04-2019, 11:54 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 23
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gdog2015 View Post
This TV is under 1k at a Sams Club right now. That should give you money for a stand
The budget my partner originally approved was about half that - the TV bought this season was to be a holdover since I hate my current TV and have wanted to upgrade for a long while. I have drooled over getting an LG 65” BX or CX for many generations but my A/V fund has been dipped into for other needed things over the years. I was able to get a Vizio M658-G1 approved (or the Hisense H9F) if they were discounted for BF and then I found out about the PX so I’m already stretched real thin going up to the PX on BF. I found some stands that use the VESA mounts for less than $20 and it’ll just be tall for a couple of weeks while I bargain shop at Goodwill . My priority is quality over aesthetics, much to the dismay of my partner.


Sorry for the price talk in the owners thread. I promise I’m done! Hopefully the next time I post I will be the owner of a shiny new PX65 .
danni13 is offline  
post #1328 of 1970 Old 11-04-2019, 02:33 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 1
So does color gradient banding vary from set to set? In addition to jailbars, I have just horrid color banding on Amazon Prime UHD video via both in house app and my Panasonic ubp820. I did not have it this bad on last years Quantum model. For instance walls in the background and the sky will be a mess of banding. Would exchanging with Vizio possibly help this?
Adam Stinson is offline  
post #1329 of 1970 Old 11-04-2019, 02:40 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
skschatzman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 3,754
Mentioned: 80 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2840 Post(s)
Liked: 1659
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Stinson View Post
So does color gradient banding vary from set to set? In addition to jailbars, I have just horrid color banding on Amazon Prime UHD video via both in house app and my Panasonic ubp820. I did not have it this bad on last years Quantum model. For instance walls in the background and the sky will be a mess of banding. Would exchanging with Vizio possibly help this?
Is the content SDR or HDR?
Color banding is inherent with SDR content and has nothing to do with the TV.
If you experience color banding with HDR content, then there could be a misconfigured setting or an issue with the panel.
The Jail Bars effect is a panel issue. If it is bad enough may warrant a replacement.
skschatzman is online now  
post #1330 of 1970 Old 11-04-2019, 03:07 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by skschatzman View Post
Is the content SDR or HDR?
Color banding is inherent with SDR content and has nothing to do with the TV.
If you experience color banding with HDR content, then there could be a misconfigured setting or an issue with the panel.
The Jail Bars effect is a panel issue. If it is bad enough may warrant a replacement.
I've really mainly seen it in HDR content. Nothing major in sdr.
Adam Stinson is offline  
post #1331 of 1970 Old 11-04-2019, 03:34 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
jconjason's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 3,063
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1305 Post(s)
Liked: 2157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Stinson View Post
I've really mainly seen it in HDR content. Nothing major in sdr.
Have you noticed it with physical media as well or just streaming?

Samsung 65" KS8000
Denon AVR 6300H
Klipsch 5.1.2
HSU VTF-3 MK5 HP
jconjason is offline  
post #1332 of 1970 Old 11-04-2019, 03:59 PM
Member
 
mssisem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 34
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 11
This last firmware update includes hdr10+ support
rc-zombies likes this.
mssisem is offline  
post #1333 of 1970 Old 11-04-2019, 03:59 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
beardontwalk123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Clear Lake, IA
Posts: 2,087
Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1584 Post(s)
Liked: 912
Quote:
Originally Posted by mssisem View Post
This last firmware update includes hdr10+ support


Say what?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
beardontwalk123 is online now  
post #1334 of 1970 Old 11-04-2019, 04:23 PM
Member
 
mssisem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 34
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Tested hdr10+ on season 2 jack ryan
mssisem is offline  
post #1335 of 1970 Old 11-04-2019, 04:34 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
beardontwalk123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Clear Lake, IA
Posts: 2,087
Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1584 Post(s)
Liked: 912
Quote:
Originally Posted by mssisem View Post
Tested hdr10+ on season 2 jack ryan


Do you have a picture of the TV showing the HDR10+ Badge? I haven’t heard any news of this till now. Thanks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
beardontwalk123 is online now  
post #1336 of 1970 Old 11-04-2019, 06:10 PM
Member
 
bandit390's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 80
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I got to #4 and noticed a 6" yellow looking blob that wouldn't go away. I also noticed the vertical bars. The Samsung 80r just got marked down, so I'm jumping ship. Thank you

Quote:
Originally Posted by WindsorTheater View Post
Here was my process used on 4 exchanges.

1. Update firmware
2. Go to smartcast
3. Set to calibrated or calibrated dark picture mode
4. Launch YouTube, play dirty screen effect test videos (the hockey one and the sky with clouds one). Evaluate with enhanced viewing angle on and off. Evaluate for jail bars and yellow or pink discoloration zones / blobs
5. Plug Xbox or roku or chromecast or any other hdr source into hdmi 1
6. Set hdmi 1 to UHD color on in the input menu and calibrated picture mode
7. Launch Netflix, or prime or hdr game on hdr device and evaluate Dolby vision/ hdr 10. Confirm no loss of picture and proper hdr subjective quality. Note Netflix Dolby vision does not work and is washed out on Xbox and roku apps due to Vizio issue in v3 firmware. Not sure if fixed v4 being rolled out now in. Hdr 10 works fine. I used hdr 10 games to confirm all inputs have working UHD hdr.
8. Repeat on hdr 2,3,4. Not hdmi 5 since it is not hdr capable.
9. If you are using an avr test hdr source through avr.


If you get through that and you are satisfied / happy then enjoy the TV! I swapped 2 tvs for failing step 4 and one for failing step 8. The TV I kept passes all, but needs viewing angle enhancement on to pass step 4.

Sent from my SHIELD Tablet K1 using Tapatalk
bandit390 is offline  
post #1337 of 1970 Old 11-04-2019, 09:02 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 12
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by mssisem View Post
This last firmware update includes hdr10+ support
Is anyone other than mssisem and rew on 4.0? I couldn't get my TV to update either...
synaesthesiajp is offline  
post #1338 of 1970 Old 11-04-2019, 09:33 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 2
I got the update today.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
pheno69 is offline  
post #1339 of 1970 Old 11-04-2019, 11:00 PM
Advanced Member
 
thrustbucket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 664
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 200 Post(s)
Liked: 140
I got the update.

I can confirm dv works fine with Xbox (although I hate that it is stuck in dv when it launches, this is a three year old Netflix bug).

I can also confirm audio dropouts are not fixed with games on Xbox.

I can also confirm: https://imgur.com/a/aPprlge
rc-zombies likes this.

Last edited by thrustbucket; 11-04-2019 at 11:26 PM.
thrustbucket is offline  
post #1340 of 1970 Old 11-05-2019, 04:03 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
beardontwalk123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Clear Lake, IA
Posts: 2,087
Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1584 Post(s)
Liked: 912
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrustbucket View Post
I got the update.



I can confirm dv works fine with Xbox (although I hate that it is stuck in dv when it launches, this is a three year old Netflix bug).



I can also confirm audio dropouts are not fixed with games on Xbox.



I can also confirm: https://imgur.com/a/aPprlge


Wow, the HDR10+ was unexpected. Kudos to Vizio for supporting all of the formats.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
rc-zombies likes this.
beardontwalk123 is online now  
post #1341 of 1970 Old 11-05-2019, 09:13 AM
Member
 
smarthur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 17
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Thumbs up V4.0 Firmware Fixes

I received the latest firmware update and it solves the video dropouts with the Xfinity/Comcast 4K DVR and Dolby Vision issue with the AppleTV4K.

I can now route all my video sources back through the Denon AVR without seeing any issues.

I did do a total reset of the Vizio and reloaded my personal settings, power cycled the AppleTV4K and reloaded the firmware of the Denon AVR just to clean out any old settings.

I've always been happy with the way my Vizio PX65 G-1 looks.
smarthur is offline  
post #1342 of 1970 Old 11-05-2019, 09:56 AM
Senior Member
 
rc-zombies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NAPA, CA
Posts: 364
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 218 Post(s)
Liked: 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by smarthur View Post
I received the latest firmware update and it solves the video dropouts with the Xfinity/Comcast 4K DVR and Dolby Vision issue with the AppleTV4K.

I can now route all my video sources back through the Denon AVR without seeing any issues.

I did do a total reset of the Vizio and reloaded my personal settings, power cycled the AppleTV4K and reloaded the firmware of the Denon AVR just to clean out any old settings.

I've always been happy with the way my Vizio PX65 G-1 looks.

that is good to hear.. can't wait for the update and reconnect my Pani UB9000 and TV4K back to the Marantz SR8012.
rc-zombies is offline  
post #1343 of 1970 Old 11-05-2019, 10:33 AM
Senior Member
 
Smiller4128's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 240
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 230 Post(s)
Liked: 66
Is anyone able to do me a favor and post some pictures of what video games look like on here? Particularly something with bright highlights? If it looks good, I may be pulling the trigger on this set soon...it’s getting harder and harder to ignore how good everyone says the picture looks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
kensingtonwick likes this.
Smiller4128 is offline  
post #1344 of 1970 Old 11-05-2019, 10:50 AM
Advanced Member
 
thrustbucket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 664
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 200 Post(s)
Liked: 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiller4128 View Post
Is anyone able to do me a favor and post some pictures of what video games look like on here? Particularly something with bright highlights? If it looks good, I may be pulling the trigger on this set soon...it’s getting harder and harder to ignore how good everyone says the picture looks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I am not sure photos of a tv will show you how good it can look.

It does look really good. Especially HDR. However, I am still having audio drop outs. Only on games, with Xbox1x. Even with the new firmware. I even bought new premium certified cables to try and fix it.
thrustbucket is offline  
post #1345 of 1970 Old 11-05-2019, 10:53 AM
Senior Member
 
Smiller4128's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 240
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 230 Post(s)
Liked: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrustbucket View Post
I am not sure photos of a tv will show you how good it can look.



It does look really good. Especially HDR. However, I am still having audio drop outs. Only on games, with Xbox1x. Even with the new firmware. I even bought new premium certified cables to try and fix it.


I’ve got a PS4 Pro myself, don’t know if that makes a difference or not. I’ve heard about the audio drop outs but was chalking it up to possibly the Vizio not connecting properly to older AVR’s? It shouldn’t have problems no matter what but I’ve got a newer AVR from Sony I bought last year and fingers crossed that I don’t have the same issue.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Smiller4128 is offline  
post #1346 of 1970 Old 11-05-2019, 01:08 PM
Member
 
Toleedo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 135
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 87 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by rc-zombies View Post
that is good to hear.. can't wait for the update and reconnect my Pani UB9000 and TV4K back to the Marantz SR8012.
Same here...but to my pioneer sc-95. Checked for the update last night and couldn't get it...hoping I can tonight.
Toleedo is offline  
post #1347 of 1970 Old 11-05-2019, 02:22 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
skschatzman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 3,754
Mentioned: 80 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2840 Post(s)
Liked: 1659
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiller4128 View Post
Is anyone able to do me a favor and post some pictures of what video games look like on here? Particularly something with bright highlights? If it looks good, I may be pulling the trigger on this set soon...it’s getting harder and harder to ignore how good everyone says the picture looks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Just as @thrustbucket has mentioned. Taking a picture is pointless and will not represent what is actually displayed. If you want to know what it looks like, then your only option is to see it first hand.
toonj64 likes this.
skschatzman is online now  
post #1348 of 1970 Old 11-05-2019, 02:39 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
toonj64's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,270
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 906 Post(s)
Liked: 563
I've been messing with Computer picture setting when using my PC instead of leaving on Calibrated and even though all settings are still at 50 in Computer pic mode, the color intensity difference is HUGE!

Im trying to understand what is going on. Colors, especially reds, seem super saturated. Why is there such a difference and how? Color temperature is the same (normal) and no other settings are different between the two.

Any ideas??

Last edited by toonj64; 11-05-2019 at 02:59 PM.
toonj64 is offline  
post #1349 of 1970 Old 11-05-2019, 03:36 PM
Advanced Member
 
MASKOAA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 732
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 85 Post(s)
Liked: 36
Maybe someone can explain this Dolby Vision behavior. I don't have this TV but wanted to see if this was something that's across the Vizio line up.
2018 Vizio P series connect to Apple 4k
TV set to auto color space and Apple 4k set to ycbcr.

Using the calibrated modes dark dolby vision movies like The Nun are always way to dark especially in the opening dungeon scene...If I fire the movie up in movies anywhere it'll play the hdr version which showed more shadow detail.

So I wanted to test something...once you're displaying dolby vision or HDR the color space is locked so before launching the movie I changed the color space on my tv to ycbcr to match the apple 4k....sdr looked the same....dolby vision fired up and now the entire screen was mostly black in the opening dungeon scene....which I found odd since doing the same thing with the hdr version made it look exactly the same as when auto color space was chosen.

So I back out of the movie and set the color space on the tv to rgb....and wth now the dolby version of the Nun is showing the same exact image as when it was set to auto.....so is Dolby vision using the rgb color space bc this doesn't make sense.
MASKOAA is online now  
post #1350 of 1970 Old 11-05-2019, 03:38 PM
Advanced Member
 
MASKOAA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 732
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 85 Post(s)
Liked: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by toonj64 View Post
I've been messing with Computer picture setting when using my PC instead of leaving on Calibrated and even though all settings are still at 50 in Computer pic mode, the color intensity difference is HUGE!

Im trying to understand what is going on. Colors, especially reds, seem super saturated. Why is there such a difference and how? Color temperature is the same (normal) and no other settings are different between the two.

Any ideas??
There's more calabration going on in those settings than what you can do on the surface. For instance copy the calibrated mode settings to game mode and it will not look the same.
MASKOAA is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply LCD Flat Panel Displays

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off