2019 Vizio P-Series Quantum X - Owner's Thread - No Price Talk - Page 5 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #121 of 2219 Old 06-16-2019, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by aggybong View Post
While smaller, I'd still expect a solid product out of the gate, or at least not shipping with repeat issues of previous years. The ability to do OTA (or even USB-based) updates shouldn't be used as a crutch\excuse.
Understood, especially when you consider the financial and time investment for the consumer. Factory calibrating these displays is pretty expensive, I can only assume budget constraints play a part in what is allowed to slip through QC.

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post #122 of 2219 Old 06-17-2019, 09:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by SpHeRe31459 View Post
I know you returned the TV, but something just clicked for me.

It sounds like you did most if not all of your viewing via external devices, and not the TV's internal apps, Right?

Over on the 2019 regular P series thread I was just reminded that the Vizio has a switch to properly enable full bandwidth support on their HDMI ports. The PQX has the same setting. It's called Full UHD Color mode. Without that enabled, it makes that sense that you could see the nasty banding like you saw from external devices when feeding it 4k HDR material. I wonder if that would explain the rather unusual amounts of banding you saw.

Similarly, your Marantz also has a setting, called 4K Signal Format which needs to be set to Enhanced. Since you're not having issues with the Sony you replaced the PQX with, I'm assuming you've got the receiver set correctly.
The pics of the banding are all from either Netflix (the built-in app) or the Oppo UDP 205 - which is connected directly to the TV & not through the Marantz.

All of the settings on the Oppo are set to Auto so it makes all of the correct adjustments based on what the TV is capable of displaying. It all worked perfectly - the TV would show if the content was standard 4K, HDR or Dolby Vision.

I connect my cable box through the Marantz, but my issues are not with the image I get from cable. I have switched between the Marantz upscaling the cable signal & the TV - essentially, no difference. I find the cable image looks fine.

So, after replacing the Vizio with the A9F & all settings from my source components exactly the same - I see no banding issues at all with the A9F's images on the exact same content. And that's the point. I kept tweaking the Vizio over & over, back & forth & while I could get the banding's offensive look subdued to a point, it never went away. And I could not get rid of the FALD issues at all, regardless of the settings & I played with them all, only minimize them. But they were still apparent & I found it too distracting to be satisfactory.

I think the majority of consumers are not going to mind or notice this stuff. I had to point it all out to people & they still looked at me like I was crazy. They were absolutely wowed by the Vizio PQX.
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post #123 of 2219 Old 06-17-2019, 09:10 AM
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Rtings 65 PQX review should be out this week. Worst case scenario would be next week. Excited to see if they can squeeze a few hundred extra nits out of this set like the PQ last year


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post #124 of 2219 Old 06-17-2019, 09:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by aggybong View Post
Some of the issues described by OP sound eerily familiar about the 2016 P-Series when that first came out. They fixed some of the issues over time (backlight unable to keep up with big contrast changes being one of them), but I guess with each new set, they need to start over?

I really wanted to hear good things about this set. I don't want OLED due to burn-in issues, and this was my next option.
I think you should try out the TV. If you're ready to pull the trigger, do it. If you are really, really picky/OCD & think you will absolutely hate the things I pointed out/took pics of - then I'd say don't get it. 95% of the stuff I watched looked incredible - no exaggeration. Cable content looks very, very good - Vizio definitely upped their processing game. If Rtings or any other reviewer gives them the same marks as the PQ, then I gotta ask - what's the fuss? Cable upscaling looked awesome.

To be clear: I was WOWED more than I was disappointed by the Vizio. I returned it because the types of movies I enjoy watching, the Vizio was not up to par. I am a major movie nut & I could not tolerate the issues for what my needs are for a TV.

A few folks in this thread are saying Vizio will fix the issues. Because I bought this TV the day it came out and only have a 30 day return window, I can't wait for Vizio to fix & am not confident that they can/will & couldn't wait. I found a great deal on an A9F & jumped on it.

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post #125 of 2219 Old 06-17-2019, 09:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by checker9 View Post
I assume you mean the Vizio Quantum X has more pop than the A9F - just want to confirm please.
The Vizio, because of how bright it is & the quantum color, is impressive. I don't know how to describe it because "pop" can mean different things to everyone. But as I used it, I would say the picture on the Vizio leaps from the screen. I'll try to give an example - pardon me if this goes on too long.. LOL

There was a scene where a car comes up over a hill - dark scene, headlights on. The car is coming at you, from the right, and turns left across the screen as it crests the hill. The headlights did not look like white dots on the screen. It was as if someone was holding a flashlight in the room and panning in front of me. It actually made me squint. Granted, the content was HDR so this scene was a great test/show of specular highlights - lemme tell ya. You actually saw the "light" from the headlights pan left to right IN THE ROOM, as opposed to the light output getting brighter in the room. It was like headlights of a car passing your house & its headlights shining through your window.

Colors look incredible. I have just the standard Avatar Blu-Ray. It looks CRAZY good on the Vizio so much so I can't imagine what the HDR (or DV) version improves on there. Our Planet was mind-blowing.

I would add, though, that I felt the Vizio was almost too bright for a dark room. Eye fatigue comes quick & easy so best to have some ambient lighting on and you can, this TV is that bright. (I'll add again here - even in a dark room, BLACK IS BLACK!)

There is still plenty of pop on the A9F - it's just not as bright. And that is not to say it's dim. Hardly. The color differences between the A9F & PQX - I think the differences are only going to show in test results with proper equipment. Even side by side, I think you'd be hard pressed to say the PQX is more colorful.

It's the brightness of the Vizio coupled with the color that give it the advantage. I would venture a guess reviewers will say things like "the PQX closes the OLED advantage gap even further..."

ALSO - keep in mind, dead-center gives the best picture with the PQX & minimizes the FALD issues I've described. You move off center even a small amount (go from center couch cushion to left or right cushion) and all of the issues are visible (and worsen the farther off-axis you go). I think the VERY limited "perfect picture" sweet spot is a critical weakness of this TV.

Good news though - the colors & contrast don't get too bad until about 30-40ish degrees off-axis but it's still quite tolerable. Not until really extreme off-axis (where no one is going to be sitting) does it really go south. Brighter your room, though, the less noticeable - so there's that advantage of the PQX's brightness & color saturation, too.
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post #126 of 2219 Old 06-17-2019, 09:36 AM
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Here's some pop

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post #127 of 2219 Old 06-17-2019, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by MashCT View Post
The pics of the banding are all from either Netflix (the built-in app) or the Oppo UDP 205 - which is connected directly to the TV & not through the Marantz.

All of the settings on the Oppo are set to Auto so it makes all of the correct adjustments based on what the TV is capable of displaying. It all worked perfectly - the TV would show if the content was standard 4K, HDR or Dolby Vision.

I connect my cable box through the Marantz, but my issues are not with the image I get from cable. I have switched between the Marantz upscaling the cable signal & the TV - essentially, no difference. I find the cable image looks fine.

So, after replacing the Vizio with the A9F & all settings from my source components exactly the same - I see no banding issues at all with the A9F's images on the exact same content. And that's the point. I kept tweaking the Vizio over & over, back & forth & while I could get the banding's offensive look subdued to a point, it never went away. And I could not get rid of the FALD issues at all, regardless of the settings & I played with them all, only minimize them. But they were still apparent & I found it too distracting to be satisfactory.

I think the majority of consumers are not going to mind or notice this stuff. I had to point it all out to people & they still looked at me like I was crazy. They were absolutely wowed by the Vizio PQX.
Do you recall if you had Full UHD color enabled on the HDMI input that you used for your Oppo? Even if you didn't, the TV would still display HDR content but the bit rate would be throttled.
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post #128 of 2219 Old 06-17-2019, 11:11 AM
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Considering the Samsung Q90R and the PQX in 75". Assuming picture quality is similar on both, cable TV upscaling and reflection handling will be the big factors for my decision. I watch a good amount of sports over cable, and have a fairly bright room with a lot of windows. Anyone that's seen both of these TV's and can comment would be greatly appreciated.
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post #129 of 2219 Old 06-17-2019, 02:23 PM
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Mcervinojr..


Also considering the 75 PX or Q90.
Keep in mind that almost no one has seen a PX75 yet. A very few have seen the PX65.
For me the key sore points to resolve and decide which are:
Screen reflection and angle (Q90)
DV capability PX
Brightness - Equal (yes specs are different, but at these levels not enough to prefer one or the other)

FALD/Processing - Q90 Excellent but maybe some dark crush; - PX????????


Reading the tea leaves in the retail web pages, it will still be several weeks until a few people have had serious face time with a PX75 to provide a good sense of PX performance.
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post #130 of 2219 Old 06-18-2019, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by mcervinojr View Post
Considering the Samsung Q90R and the PQX in 75". Assuming picture quality is similar on both, cable TV upscaling and reflection handling will be the big factors for my decision. I watch a good amount of sports over cable, and have a fairly bright room with a lot of windows. Anyone that's seen both of these TV's and can comment would be greatly appreciated.
I'm in a similar boat. Bright room with windows from all directions. Watch a lot of cable news, cable sports, and cable tv, as well as Netflix, Amazon Prime, blu-rays, and regular DVDs.

Currently have a Samsung PN64E8000 plasma that's dying for the second time (how a 7 year old tv can have so many critical failures is beyond me), and trying to find a good replacement that doesn't handle motion too poorly (I've found hockey on some LEDs to be downright terrible). Great upscaling is ESSENTIAL for my household.

So far people have been saying Sony has the best processing, but these new Samsung/Vizio TVs might finally have upped their processing game?

Still, also heard that LEDs don't come close to good old plasmas especially for fast moving and low quality content. I'd hate to buy a new 4k HDR TV only to find out most content looked better on my dead old plasma.

First hand experience between Sony OLEDs, LG OLEDs, and the Q90 and PQX would be great. Especially in comparison to plasmas.

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post #131 of 2219 Old 06-18-2019, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by KenUHD View Post
Mcervinojr..


Also considering the 75 PX or Q90.
Keep in mind that almost no one has seen a PX75 yet. A very few have seen the PX65.
For me the key sore points to resolve and decide which are:
Screen reflection and angle (Q90)
DV capability PX
Brightness - Equal (yes specs are different, but at these levels not enough to prefer one or the other)

FALD/Processing - Q90 Excellent but maybe some dark crush; - PX????????


Reading the tea leaves in the retail web pages, it will still be several weeks until a few people have had serious face time with a PX75 to provide a good sense of PX performance.
You may want to hold off till Sept, and check out the TCL X10 (8 Series)

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post #132 of 2219 Old 06-18-2019, 03:13 PM
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FYI
I may be wrong, but I think Samsung phones have a problem with the letter 's'. I have heard the text looks OK on the phone but garbled on a real browser. See the recent post by Alienwar9 for a possible example.

Be cautious, samsung phones may have a lisp.
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post #133 of 2219 Old 06-18-2019, 04:15 PM
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Oof. Checked desktop site and indeed my post is a goner. Should have posted with my OnePlus!

(How is that even a thing?)
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post #134 of 2219 Old 06-19-2019, 05:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by PlanetAVS View Post
Do you recall if you had Full UHD color enabled on the HDMI input that you used for your Oppo? Even if you didn't, the TV would still display HDR content but the bit rate would be throttled.
Yes I did. The TV indicates if it's displaying HDR10 or DV. It will only do that if you turn that setting on.

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post #135 of 2219 Old 06-19-2019, 05:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by KenUHD View Post
Mcervinojr..


Also considering the 75 PX or Q90.
Keep in mind that almost no one has seen a PX75 yet. A very few have seen the PX65.
For me the key sore points to resolve and decide which are:
Screen reflection and angle (Q90)
DV capability PX
Brightness - Equal (yes specs are different, but at these levels not enough to prefer one or the other)

FALD/Processing - Q90 Excellent but maybe some dark crush; - PX????????


Reading the tea leaves in the retail web pages, it will still be several weeks until a few people have had serious face time with a PX75 to provide a good sense of PX performance.
I comment on reflection handling, angle, DV (yes, PQX handles it superbly & automatically with the setting turned on) and black crush (I saw none & I watched some deep, dark, moody stuff I am very familiar with).

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post #136 of 2219 Old 06-19-2019, 06:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by alienwar9 View Post
I'm in a similar boat. Bright room with windows from all directions. Watch a lot of cable news, cable sports, and cable tv, as well as Netflix, Amazon Prime, blu-rays, and regular DVDs.

Currently have a Samsung PN64E8000 plasma that's dying for the second time (how a 7 year old tv can have so many critical failures is beyond me), and trying to find a good replacement that doesn't handle motion too poorly (I've found hockey on some LEDs to be downright terrible). Great upscaling is ESSENTIAL for my household.

So far people have been saying Sony has the best processing, but these new Samsung/Vizio TVs might finally have upped their processing game?

Still, also heard that LEDs don't come close to good old plasmas especially for fast moving and low quality content. I'd hate to buy a new 4k HDR TV only to find out most content looked better on my dead old plasma.

First hand experience between Sony OLEDs, LG OLEDs, and the Q90 and PQX would be great. Especially in comparison to plasmas.

I had a Pioneer Kuro, had the PQX for about 3 weeks & now have a Sony A9F.

Unfortunately, OLED & no LCD will match the smooth motion like you get with plasma & CRT. This is due to the fast pixel response times & frame rate of content & refresh rate on the TV. You can compensate with motion control or black frame insertion, but motion interpolation adds soap opera effect & can introduce artifacts. BFI I can see the flicker & it's annoying.

SOE is not that big a deal when watching sports, but fast action (like high speed skating, car races, fast pans in soccer & football) the PQX did show smearing/tearing but it was VERY, VERY rare. Would I consider it a deal breaker? Nope.

The stutter in slow pans & slow moving objects is evident on the PQX & OLED. The Sony handles it much better & it's not as offensive. That's not to say the Vizio is garbage or much worse than the Sony. I'd say if Sony is the 10 - "10" meaning best, not what I would consider a 10 - Vizio to me is an 8. Close enough to not pay more just for better motion. Honestly I expected worse from the Vizio so I was very pleasantly surprised. I did not find the motion on the Vizio overly distracting. The Sony is just better. (The biggest drawbacks for me was the gradient banding & visible FALD-at-work.)

Vizio has upped their processing, for sure. Or I was high as a kite when I watched the Vizio & everything just looked dreamy as hell.

I have found that as I am watching this technology more (LCD/OLED), I am getting used to the stutter. As long as I don't focus on it or look for it, it really just turns to background blur. Like, you "learn" how to watch these TVs.

Just keep in mind I had the Vizio for 3 weeks - but I watched a LOT of content on it.

One thing I don't understand is how Rtings gives OLEDs & LEDs such high motion ratings when stutter is so obvious & to me, is a major negative. I think it's a little misleading - 10 to me means perfect motion, presented as the content provider intended & 9 means damned close - I would say so long as stutter is evident, neither OLED nor LED are 8 out of 10, tops.

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post #137 of 2219 Old 06-20-2019, 10:53 AM
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Howdy again folks!

Posting some more pics - this time, Interstellar, 4K HDR.

Some notes...

Most (of what appears to be) blooming you see in the pics is in the content, not from the TV's backlight.
Anything that actually is blooming is absolutely 100% only in the pic - it was not in the image.
No joke - the black levels the TV produced for this movie were unbelievable. Truly amazing.
Anything that is white/bright - the camera cannot render how bright these objects actually are. What you will clearly see is no light bleed, at all, not even into the black bars.
The image onscreen was tack-sharp, beautifully rendered.

I saw ZERO banding in this movie, in none of the scenes, including the duststorms.

I have 2 videos I took of the scenes where the Endurance is spinning while they're trying to dock & match the spin. There are flashes of white & black & bright light against the black and the videos totally show - zero blooming/light bleed.

I was blown away by how perfectly the Quantum X rendered this movie. Truly stunning.

Make no mistake - the blacks rivaled OLED. THe brights - especially shots of Gargantua were just unreal.
Can you post your setting adjustments and the picture mode you're using? Out of the box, the colors are so washed out (but very bright!) so I'm lowering the screen brightness but since this is my first Vizio, I want to know if I'm missing some obvious setting from other owners with regards to other PQ settings. Thanks!
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post #138 of 2219 Old 06-20-2019, 11:22 AM
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Can you post your setting adjustments and the picture mode you're using? Out of the box, the colors are so washed out (but very bright!) so I'm lowering the screen brightness but since this is my first Vizio, I want to know if I'm missing some obvious setting from other owners with regards to other PQ settings. Thanks!
Lower contrast control by 2 points, and increase color to your preference. Visit the calibration thread for PQ for the best backlight setting. Calibrated or Dark are the most accurate.

Or you can go for the look of Standard or Vivid. Ultimately, it is contrast that needs to be adjusted.

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post #139 of 2219 Old 06-20-2019, 01:38 PM
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How is SDR/1080i or lower upscaled content as compared to the Kuro? (Either the Sony or Vizio)

I've noticed a lot of display TVs look grainy, oversharpened, or blown out in contrast as compared to my plasma. Was wondering if that's just bad settings for lower quality / cable content, or plasmas do give a softer, more natural look.

Also heard others have had the same experience over the years, but wondering if processing has improved or there's just something I'm missing or not understanding.

Honestly leaning towards the Sony cause my plasma was damn near perfect for me, and I know any blemish will just continually bother me. Not even sure how I'll take the black crush(?), cause I was looking around puzzled at other people complaining about *that* dark Game of Thrones episode.
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post #140 of 2219 Old 06-20-2019, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by alienwar9 View Post
How is SDR/1080i or lower upscaled content as compared to the Kuro? (Either the Sony or Vizio)

I've noticed a lot of display TVs look grainy, oversharpened, or blown out in contrast as compared to my plasma. Was wondering if that's just bad settings for lower quality / cable content, or plasmas do give a softer, more natural look.

Also heard others have had the same experience over the years, but wondering if processing has improved or there's just something I'm missing or not understanding.

Honestly leaning towards the Sony cause my plasma was damn near perfect for me, and I know any blemish will just continually bother me. Not even sure how I'll take the black crush(?), cause I was looking around puzzled at other people complaining about *that* dark Game of Thrones episode.

I do not own this TV but do have the pq65 and and 2016 vizio p65. As far as I know a new processor was not introduced with this TV. Most cable content looks good to acceptable on the vizios but lower bandwidth stations look pretty bad. So much so that I moved to YouTube TV which was a big improvement over DirecTV. My tv.s shine when given quality content(1080p and above) but I personally would go with a Sony if the majority of my TV watching was cable.
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post #141 of 2219 Old 06-21-2019, 07:14 AM
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Is the viewing angle as bad as everyone says? I really want the 65" and my rooms is set up so that we sit about 5-6' away on either end of an 8' couch. So doing some back of the napkin math that's...33° viewing angle? Judging from some people's impressions at that angle the TV would be unwatchable.

Anyways, I'm coming from a B7 OLED so I'm not accustomed to worrying about this. But, I'm interested in this TV due to the insane brightness. My B7 is really underwhelming in bright scenes and the ABL annoys me to no end.
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post #142 of 2219 Old 06-21-2019, 02:58 PM
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The only time I will ever give them a whirl is if the content looks off in any way on my custom settings (which are done with the Spears & Munsil disc). I'll give em a shot & if they improve the image, I will use the processing (incl noise reduction) just for that content.

When I saw the gradient banding & the backlight "lag" - I tried multiple settings. None of them fixed it. "Medium" FALD setting helped minimize the visibility of the "lag", but it was still there. I reduced brightness, contrast, color - then increased it all. Doing various combinations & going back & forth... then it suddenly dawns on you - this is nuts. I shouldn't have to do this.

I wound up sending the TV back & got a Sony A9F. Right away, what do you think I noticed?

If you were to say 3-D like pop, colors & bright images coupled- yep, you got it.

I think what Vizio has done is set a bar - and taken LCD/LED technology to a whole new level. What that set does right, it seriously does right. And no one, not Samsung, not Sony - did it before Vizio.

I think they're going to force other manufacturers to step up or they will start to lose market share, for sure. And that kind of progress may mean in the next 1-2 years, LCD/LED will blow the doors off OLED. The Quantum X is just too close on the blacks & crushes the brightness & colors OLED can produce.
Vizio is simply going for the low hanging fruit improvements via brute force (higher brightness, rearrange local dimming) but it simply does not have the resources of Sony, Panasonic, LG and Samsung to invest in deep color processing, motion processing and upscaling. Both Sony and Panasonic have dedicated color science divisions and provide $40,000 reference monitors and professional video cameras for movie production! There’s no free lunch: the Vizio is $1,000 cheaper because it simply didn’t invest anything into image processing.
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post #143 of 2219 Old 06-22-2019, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by MashCT View Post
I had a Pioneer Kuro, had the PQX for about 3 weeks & now have a Sony A9F.



Unfortunately, OLED & no LCD will match the smooth motion like you get with plasma & CRT. This is due to the fast pixel response times & frame rate of content & refresh rate on the TV. You can compensate with motion control or black frame insertion, but motion interpolation adds soap opera effect & can introduce artifacts. BFI I can see the flicker & it's annoying.



SOE is not that big a deal when watching sports, but fast action (like high speed skating, car races, fast pans in soccer & football) the PQX did show smearing/tearing but it was VERY, VERY rare. Would I consider it a deal breaker? Nope.



The stutter in slow pans & slow moving objects is evident on the PQX & OLED. The Sony handles it much better & it's not as offensive. That's not to say the Vizio is garbage or much worse than the Sony. I'd say if Sony is the 10 - "10" meaning best, not what I would consider a 10 - Vizio to me is an 8. Close enough to not pay more just for better motion. Honestly I expected worse from the Vizio so I was very pleasantly surprised. I did not find the motion on the Vizio overly distracting. The Sony is just better. (The biggest drawbacks for me was the gradient banding & visible FALD-at-work.)



Vizio has upped their processing, for sure. Or I was high as a kite when I watched the Vizio & everything just looked dreamy as hell.



I have found that as I am watching this technology more (LCD/OLED), I am getting used to the stutter. As long as I don't focus on it or look for it, it really just turns to background blur. Like, you "learn" how to watch these TVs.



Just keep in mind I had the Vizio for 3 weeks - but I watched a LOT of content on it.



One thing I don't understand is how Rtings gives OLEDs & LEDs such high motion ratings when stutter is so obvious & to me, is a major negative. I think it's a little misleading - 10 to me means perfect motion, presented as the content provider intended & 9 means damned close - I would say so long as stutter is evident, neither OLED nor LED are 8 out of 10, tops.
Don't forget also that there is a lot of cameras out there that are not pro cameras and give that low framerate in the content.

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2018 Sony LCD Master Series Calibration Thread
Sony XBR-75Z9F, Vizio M50-E1, Pioneer Kuro 5020, Marantz SR6013, AppleTV-4K, XBox One & (X), NVIDIA SHIELD.v1, FireTV 4K-HDR, HDHR Connects, QNAP 431+
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post #144 of 2219 Old 06-26-2019, 01:38 PM
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Where are the reviews on this tv? It’s crazy we are half way through 2019.
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post #145 of 2219 Old 06-26-2019, 01:44 PM
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Where are the reviews on this tv? It’s crazy we are half way through 2019.
Rtngs tweeted that they bought the Quantum X on June 5th. And then tweeted on the 17th that the review could be out that week (last week) but might push to this week. Should be any day now.
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post #146 of 2219 Old 06-26-2019, 11:01 PM
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For folks asking for reviews, there are additional fresh mini-reviews from consumers on costco dot com. Additional negative testimony about distracting picture similar to posts herein.phooey.
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post #147 of 2219 Old 06-27-2019, 06:11 AM
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Rtngs tweeted that they bought the Quantum X on June 5th. And then tweeted on the 17th that the review could be out that week (last week) but might push to this week. Should be any day now.


We may have to wait until next week. I just got a response from them.


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post #148 of 2219 Old 06-27-2019, 06:34 AM
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Where are the reviews on this tv? It’s crazy we are half way through 2019.
The TV has only been available for one month...

Exaggerate the facts.
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post #149 of 2219 Old 06-28-2019, 07:57 AM
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Anyone know how long the current discount on the 75" might last? I am primed to pull the trigger but was holding out for the Rtings review first...but with the current $500 sale it's hard to wait
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post #150 of 2219 Old 06-28-2019, 08:29 AM
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Costco shows the sale lasting until 7/14/19 or while supplies last.
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