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post #211 of 286 Old 06-03-2019, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by brazen1 View Post
Eastman Kodak invented the first Organic Light Emitting Diode back in 1967 or so. For short, it was quipped OLED. They held the patent forever. When it finally went public, Sony started development for TV's. Samsung too. LG wanted in on the game so allegedly paid Samsung developers illegal money for the tech. Samsung found out and sued LG. LG settled out of court.

If you don't know the difference between a Q and an O, that's your problem. An LED lit display is just that. Everybody uses them. LCD/LED was the term used when LED displays came to market. Somebody thought adding an O in front of LED was cute, as if they pioneered the whole concept and attached it to their marketing game as if it was all theirs.

They should have just came right out and said the O stands for ORGANIC but who the hell wants an organic TV besides my dog who would try to eat it? Organic things are on a clock to die or are already dead. Maybe it's a free range TV raised on natural grasses next to chickens? So, organic was replaced with an O cuz it doesn't exactly sound appealing. This doesn't mean a free range TV isn't crawling toward an eventual death though. It will die even if the power supply is NEVER activated. Leaving it in the box and NEVER opening it... it will degrade sitting there and eventually die. It's organic. I don't want an organic TV giving off death fumes in my living room around my children. I will NEVER own one. If you gave me one, I'd sell it. If no one wanted to buy it, I'd recycle it as quickly as possible.

I would opt for a QLED. Quantum Dot. It isn't organic. It isn't degrading on its way to death from the moment it leaves the assembly line. You also don't have to baby it like the organic things that are prone to burn-in. I know, there is no such thing as burn-in as long as you baby it. Baby it means to intensely monitor what you feed it. One wrong move and you kill it permanently... as in dead. Some say you can press magic buttons and breath life back into the organism. They are lying to you. Once it's dead, it's dead. Some say they don't mind burn-in. I don't even know how to reply to this except to LoL. Most have opted to switch from Organic Light Emitting Diodes - OLED's to other LED's such as QLED in my reading.
Man, some of you guys are really funny. You know, if somebody thinks OLED is better than LCD, and you happen to own an LCD, it's not an insult to your mama. (And vice-versa for that matter for those who are fans of OLED when someone says something negative about that technology.) People shouldn't take this stuff so personally. It's just a TV, for crying out loud. And the silly hyperbole in some of these posts. Oh my goodness -- some folks need to get some perspective.
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post #212 of 286 Old 06-03-2019, 03:08 PM
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I'm taking it that, because my wife is hearing impaired and uses captioning, we should avoid OLED. All viewing is satellite and bluray. Captioning colors can be changed, but are still there in boxes of black or white. Would you all recommend LED for us? TIA (and sorry for temporarily hijacking the thread).
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post #213 of 286 Old 06-03-2019, 03:11 PM
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Man, some of you guys are really funny. You know, if somebody thinks OLED is better than LCD, and you happen to own an LCD, it's not an insult to your mama. (And vice-versa for that matter for those who are fans of OLED when someone says something negative about that technology.) People shouldn't take this stuff so personally. It's just a TV, for crying out loud. And the silly hyperbole in some of these posts. Oh my goodness -- some folks need to get some perspective.
But it's all these guys have.....You gotta understand. Who knows though, maybe they are just new here, and have not figured out we tend to be a little more mature about things, and less hot headed.
Maybe they think this is Twitter?
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post #214 of 286 Old 06-03-2019, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by TDHawks View Post
I would say 75% sports, 20% Netflix, 5% network garage. Regardless, sounds like we are on the same page. Bummer too, nice tv. But, the reviews on the 900f are pretty nice as well.
i bought the 900F six months ago. couldn’t be happier!
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post #215 of 286 Old 06-03-2019, 03:17 PM
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Personally I won't settle for anything less than the finest free range grass-fed organic LEDs for my TV.
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post #216 of 286 Old 06-03-2019, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by smitty View Post
Man, some of you guys are really funny. You know, if somebody thinks OLED is better than LCD, and you happen to own an LCD, it's not an insult to your mama. (And vice-versa for that matter for those who are fans of OLED when someone says something negative about that technology.) People shouldn't take this stuff so personally. It's just a TV, for crying out loud. And the silly hyperbole in some of these posts. Oh my goodness -- some folks need to get some perspective.
I wanted to write a response to his hyperbole, but I'm too feeble from breathing my grass-fed TV's death fumes for so long.
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post #217 of 286 Old 06-03-2019, 04:04 PM
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But it's all these guys have.....You gotta understand. Who knows though, maybe they are just new here, and have not figured out we tend to be a little more mature about things, and less hot headed.
Maybe they think this is Twitter?
Well, honestly, it is the internet as a whole is going downhill. If people had to put their real credentials on everything they post so they are held accountable, things would be at least a little better.
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post #218 of 286 Old 06-03-2019, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by KurianOfBorg View Post
OLED burn-in is overblown. I've used my B7 as a desktop monitor for over a year with no visible burn-in, but I run it at 35 OLED Light (140 nits) so it doesn't trigger ABL. HDR content uses 100 OLED Light. If it lasts even 2 years I'll consider it worth my money. Even after that the burn-in would only be minor.
I have an LG B6 which is about 3 years old now. I watch sports, movies, live TV, and Netflix/streaming sources. I have no burn-in at all. Zero, zilch, nada. Burn-in was my biggest worry switching from LCD to OLED but that worry is over and done. Turns out the biggest issue I had to deal with was bad HDMI inputs. LG had to replace the main board twice! Anyway, aside from that, all has been good and I can honestly say my first OLED TV has been the best TV I've owned.

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post #219 of 286 Old 06-03-2019, 06:11 PM
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My brothers oled has burned in logos. Tv is run about 16 hours a day

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post #220 of 286 Old 06-03-2019, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by TDHawks View Post
I went to Best Buy this weekend to purchase a Sony x900F. When I was talking to the sales rep, he told me they had an open box LG B8 that came back to the store yesterday because the screen was not bright enough for the individual who originally purchased it.

Long story short, I couldn’t pass up the deal and brought it home. It is a beautiful TV, looks fantastic, everything I want.

However, the more I read about OLED’s, the more fear I have that I’m going to get burn in on the screen. If I am constantly watching baseball, football, tennis, there are going to be static logos on the screen constantly and I wonder if I’m even going to be able to enjoy this TV with the fear in the back my head that I’m going to have a burnt in MLB logo in the corner.

Have any of you moved away from an OLED because of this or am I overreacting?

As long as there's movement behind the logo there shouldn't be a problem with burn in.
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post #221 of 286 Old 06-04-2019, 04:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Mudslide View Post
I'm taking it that, because my wife is hearing impaired and uses captioning, we should avoid OLED. All viewing is satellite and bluray. Captioning colors can be changed, but are still there in boxes of black or white. Would you all recommend LED for us? TIA (and sorry for temporarily hijacking the thread).
Not a hijack and relative to the discussion. Yes, I would stay away if i were you. That would qualify as non normal viewing since even mixed content would all have a common area of like use.
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post #222 of 286 Old 06-04-2019, 05:19 AM
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Don't know what you are referring to so I'll answer for both. Oled is not overpriced, its just still expensive at the moment. The Q90R in my opinion is, I didn't mention prices because I think there is a rule against it so I will purposely be vague. The 65 inch Q90R is close to 4 after taxes, I think it should be closer to two and a half!! Especially with what the competition is offering.
3500 is not close to 4k and is cheaper than than a q9f was 2 years ago at this point of its existence. More for less. It's also in it's profit phase. Once we get to the fall it's all about maintaining market share and prices come down.Patience is a virtue. If you're saying that Chinese owned companies can make TVs cheaper than South Korean owned ones, well that isn't news and we will always be paying for bleeding edge tech. If we don't, they just won't make them or if they do, need make them even more expensive at lower volumes. The amount of panels returned for minor aberrations or simply to evaluate performance (a practice I frown upon) at this end of the market, as witnessed on this site alone, increases costs significantly. If you look at what you get in a TCL, NU8000, or 900f for what they cost, they are bargains compared to just 2 years back. If you're upset about the price of the very best the market has to offer, you just don't understand how this works. Porches cost more than VWs and Ferraris more than Fiats. LG didn't show a TV profit ( all TVs) for every year they made OLED until this one. What do you expect them to do?
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post #223 of 286 Old 06-04-2019, 06:24 AM
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I know the smaller Oled's came down in price considerably. The bigger sized ones are significantly more expensive at the beginning because they cost more to manufacture until tooling comes down. I dont know what their margin on these larger sizes is, so I cant disagree with you but it may actually be significantly more to manufacture at this point!
It has to do with having a larger expanse of defect free panel. It's the same reason lumber costs are far higher for wider or longer boards. A 2x12 can only be made from the middle of a large tree with little to no defects in the middle. In a given forest, for every 2x12, you can make 20 2x4's.
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post #224 of 286 Old 06-04-2019, 07:06 AM
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3500 is not close to 4k and is cheaper than than a q9f was 2 years ago at this point of its existence. More for less. It's also in it's profit phase. Once we get to the fall it's all about maintaining market share and prices come down.Patience is a virtue. If you're saying that Chinese owned companies can make TVs cheaper than South Korean owned ones, well that isn't news and we will always be paying for bleeding edge tech. If we don't, they just won't make them or if they do, need make them even more expensive at lower volumes. The amount of panels returned for minor aberrations or simply to evaluate performance (a practice I frown upon) at this end of the market, as witnessed on this site alone, increases costs significantly. If you look at what you get in a TCL, NU8000, or 900f for what they cost, they are bargains compared to just 2 years back. If you're upset about the price of the very best the market has to offer, you just don't understand how this works. Porches cost more than VWs and Ferraris more than Fiats. LG didn't show a TV profit ( all TVs) for every year they made OLED until this one. What do you expect them to do?
Re-read all my posts. As far as oled is concerned I previously stated in this thread that oled is NOT over priced but still expensive at the moment. Meaning I understand the reason why it costs what it does, especially at larger sizes.

Secondly I don't think you got the point I was trying to make on the Q90r. I was saying that Samsung managed to spruce up old technology and sell it at a premium. This does not upset me and I even congratulated their business acumen! I was merely pointing out that if Oled was a little more resilient and had a few less shortcomings Samsung would never be able to sell the Q90r at that price. They are basically selling LCD at the cost of Oled without the research and development of a new technology, the new tooling and manufacturing costs. Sure the Q90R had some development costs but nowhere near the level of a completely new panel type.

Further I would even buy a Q90r if I didn't feel like some very good new things are coming.



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It has to do with having a larger expanse of defect free panel. It's the same reason lumber costs are far higher for wider or longer boards. A 2x12 can only be made from the middle of a large tree with little to no defects in the middle. In a given forest, for every 2x12, you can make 20 2x4's.
I stand corrected, Thank you.
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post #225 of 286 Old 06-04-2019, 07:39 AM
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New dispersion layer, more brightness, best and improved anti-reflection, greater panel consistency, better processing yet at a lower price than previous top models at this point of their life cycle but OK if you say so.
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post #226 of 286 Old 06-04-2019, 08:51 AM
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New dispersion layer, more brightness, best and improved anti-reflection, greater panel consistency, better processing yet at a lower price than previous top models at this point of their life cycle but OK if you say so.
I'm sorry you are just not getting it! They are selling old technology at the cost of new technology! All the stuff you mentioned above literally mean nothing, This is ancient LCD technology with ancient Fald technology!

I will break this down even further! They took a very mature technology called LCD. They took another established technology called FALD, that has been around for over a decade and tweaked it! They have done a very good job taking something very good and making it better. The manufacturing cost of an LCD panel in 1999 was astronomical, the manufacturing cost of an lcd panel in 2019 is peanuts! They are selling something with very old established technology for the price of something that took many years of research and development and higher manufacturing costs for the about the same amount of money. LG has finally made a profit this year after all the funding they had to lay out to develop oled! Samsung is selling a product for nearly the same amount of money that did not require all this investment! Again Kudos to them!
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post #227 of 286 Old 06-04-2019, 08:53 AM
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Hey, just think of it this way: as recently as 2017 Samsung's idea of a "flagship" Q9 LCD was edge lit. And even last year you had to spring for at least a Q8 to get real local dimming. So they're making progress... compared to themselves.
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post #228 of 286 Old 06-04-2019, 09:41 AM
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Hey, just think of it this way: as recently as 2017 Samsung's idea of a "flagship" Q9 LCD was edge lit. And even last year you had to spring for at least a Q8 to get real local dimming. So they're making progress... compared to themselves.
We can thank LG for putting their feet to the fire!
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post #229 of 286 Old 06-04-2019, 10:43 AM
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I'm sorry you are just not getting it! They are selling old technology at the cost of new technology! All the stuff you mentioned above literally mean nothing, This is ancient LCD technology with ancient Fald technology!

I will break this down even further! They took a very mature technology called LCD. They took another established technology called FALD, that has been around for over a decade and tweaked it! They have done a very good job taking something very good and making it better. The manufacturing cost of an LCD panel in 1999 was astronomical, the manufacturing cost of an lcd panel in 2019 is peanuts! They are selling something with very old established technology for the price of something that took many years of research and development and higher manufacturing costs for the about the same amount of money. LG has finally made a profit this year after all the funding they had to lay out to develop oled! Samsung is selling a product for nearly the same amount of money that did not require all this investment! Again Kudos to them!
Because R&D and making more uniform panels on existing technology is free? The Q90r advances the current state of the art in a few categories. Prices are lower every year for better tech outside the Z9D which was mega expensive anyway. We all know those techs are established. So what? Don't buy one but don't disparage advancing existing tech for a company that had laid ground work for OLED and thought better of it for the reasons some here have issues with them as well. They are working on mini and micro LED and it's paid for by LCD sales. Just because it isn't here yet doesn't mean they aren't investing in tech. I am more a Sony guy so don't have a dog in this but come on. They are allowed a flagship and offer great values like the NU8000 every year. Your view is quite narrow.
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post #230 of 286 Old 06-06-2019, 06:45 AM
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Switch from OLED to LCD

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Originally Posted by js950 View Post
Because R&D and making more uniform panels on existing technology is free? The Q90r advances the current state of the art in a few categories. Prices are lower every year for better tech outside the Z9D which was mega expensive anyway. We all know those techs are established. So what? Don't buy one but don't disparage advancing existing tech for a company that had laid ground work for OLED and thought better of it for the reasons some here have issues with them as well. They are working on mini and micro LED and it's paid for by LCD sales. Just because it isn't here yet doesn't mean they aren't investing in tech. I am more a Sony guy so don't have a dog in this but come on. They are allowed a flagship and offer great values like the NU8000 every year. Your view is quite narrow.
Well said.

Looking at the bigger picture, Samsung has more model saturation than anyone else in the business. For myself, the Q90 was a significant improvement over the Q9FN, so I believe they are still advancing the tech. Panels are better and prices are lower every year. The fact that OLED tech has been mostly stagnant since 2016 has given Samsung a few extra years to squeeze every last ounce of performance from LCD/QLED, while obviously working hard on mini/micro LED behind the scenes. Nothing at all wrong with that business model and they are the market leaders, so they must be doing something right.

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post #231 of 286 Old 06-14-2019, 09:36 PM
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a LOT of hot air above^^^ take the OLED back get a LCD.

1 year LG OLED at BB. it was much worse looking in person, the glare hides a lot from my camera in fact every single OLED Sony or LG was all burned in. The BS about OLED not burning in is a bold face lie, its not if but when...?

I took a bunch of pics but now I cant find the others, OLED = money flushed down the drain. I'd hold out for MicroLED or CLED
At least MicroLED has complete blacks like OLED, though I don't know if CLED offers the same true blacks. However, I've heard the pixels on MicroLED are kind of big, but I have not heard anything about the pixel size of CLED.

Does CLED provide complete blacks like OLED and MicroLED?

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post #232 of 286 Old 06-14-2019, 09:38 PM
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At least MicroLED has complete blacks like OLED, though I don't know if CLED offers the same true blacks. However, I've heard the pixels on MicroLED are kind of big, but I have not heard anything about the pixel size of CLED.

Does CLED provide complete blacks like OLED and MicroLED?


Sony's Cledis is micro led. just a different name.
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post #233 of 286 Old 06-14-2019, 09:42 PM
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Sony's Cledis is micro led. just a different name.
Well then, at least to me, it all comes down to the size of the pixels and how the set handles motion.

I hear there's a MicorLED set coming out later this year; it will be interesting to see how it performs.

Thanks for the info.

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post #234 of 286 Old 06-15-2019, 12:39 AM
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I'm taking it that, because my wife is hearing impaired and uses captioning, we should avoid OLED. All viewing is satellite and bluray. Captioning colors can be changed, but are still there in boxes of black or white. Would you all recommend LED for us? TIA (and sorry for temporarily hijacking the thread).
We love to watch with subs so we're not getting an oled but would reconsider if it's brand new and miraculously, heavily discounted. I remember some folks able to snag LG IPS SK9500s in BB <$ 900 after a few months it came out.
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post #235 of 286 Old 06-15-2019, 05:31 AM
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Lightbulb

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Originally Posted by Audiguy3 View Post
My brothers oled has burned in logos. Tv is run about 16 hours a day
You can use the "Zoom Control" on your OLED to zoom out the static images so your never have to worry about burn-in with static images again. "Tech And Travel" shows you how to do this on You Tube
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post #236 of 286 Old 06-17-2019, 03:55 PM
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At least MicroLED has complete blacks like OLED, though I don't know if CLED offers the same true blacks. However, I've heard the pixels on MicroLED are kind of big, but I have not heard anything about the pixel size of CLED.

Does CLED provide complete blacks like OLED and MicroLED?
Its actual CLEDIS as in crystal.

https://www.avsforum.com/best-of-ces...y-at-ces-2017/
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post #237 of 286 Old 06-17-2019, 04:28 PM
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CLEDIS (Sony Crystal LED Display System) is further development of the ''true'' LED TV, Sony 55'' Crystal LED TV prototype, which they demod in 2012. It took them a number of years to come up with the commercial CLEDIS product.
https://newatlas.com/sony-crystal-led-display/21056/
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post #238 of 286 Old 06-23-2019, 12:52 AM
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Do you see any damage...???












How about NOW?



Not CC/closed captioning, not letter box/black bars, not news channel logos.




December 2018



June 2019



OLED owners are ridiculous

Sony Tri-75" Z9D's / 75" 850C / Apple 4KTV / OPPO UDP-203 / twin X1X Scorpio's

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post #239 of 286 Old 06-23-2019, 01:07 AM
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^yeah we sure are fella.
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post #240 of 286 Old 06-23-2019, 01:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camcamaro1991 View Post
Do you see any damage...???
OLED owners are ridiculous
You could say the same to anyone who used to watch TV using a CRT. Ever see a video game CRT with lots of damage because of the attraction mode? Sure, of course. But I never saw that kind of damage on my CRT because there was always a variation of content.
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Movies must be OAR, sports and movies must also have 5.1 audio, No EE or NO SALE!
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