Apple 6K Pro Display XDR Offers Next-Gen LCD Technology - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 82 Old 06-04-2019, 04:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Apple 6K Pro Display XDR Offers Next-Gen LCD Technology

Apple's new 6K Pro display XDR ($4999) is a 32" monitor that offers a peek at where the performance of LCD displays is headed. If what Apple is bragging about pans out in the real world, this represents the moment when LCD takes the lead from OLED without giving up any performance when it comes to contrast. To be specific, Apple is advertising a 1000 nit full-screen sustained brightness With 1600 nit peaks, along with a million-to-one contrast ratio.

According to Apple, this new monitor renders the entire P3 color gamut and is a true 10-bit display. The company says the increase in contrast is the result of "precise backlight control" and that the design of the Pro Display XDR allows it to "dramatically reduce blooming using advanced LED technology, light shaping, and intelligent image processing." - Apple.com

In addition to the incredible contrast performance and the high peak brightness, Apple says that this LCD display has a "Superwide viewing angle" that is achieved using polarizer technology. In Apple's own terminology, this display has "25X better off axis contrast than a typical LCD."

Apple also highlights the extremely low roof activity of this new screen. A nano texture coating on the glass maintains contrast when the monitor is used in brighter settings, and does not add any haze or sparkle, unlike some other antireflective coatings. However, this coding will cost an extra $1000 over the $4999 base price.

Notably, this is a 6K monitor—6016 by 3384 pixels (20.4 million pixels). Apple gives it the Retina 6K moniker and notes that it provides a pixel density of 218 PPI.

This is a 576-zone FALD-LCD display. The company notes that "each of the displays 576 LEDs is individually calibrated and has its light profile stored." Which allows the monitor to then modulate those LEDs with high precision.

An optional "Pro Stand" is available for $999 that allows for height adjustment as well as rotation of the monitor.

It will certainly be interesting to see if Apple has achieved a new level of quality for LCD display technology with this monitor.

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Last edited by imagic; 06-10-2019 at 07:32 AM.
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post #2 of 82 Old 06-04-2019, 06:02 AM
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Looking forward to seeing one.

But, unless it comes with an ATM stocked with 20's, there's no way I'm paying that for a 32" monitor.
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post #3 of 82 Old 06-04-2019, 06:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Apple's new 6K Pro display XDR ($4999) is a 32" monitor that offers a peek at where the performance of LCD displays is headed. If what Apple is bragging about pans out in the real world, this represents the moment when LCD takes the lead from OLED without giving up any performance when it comes to contrast. To be specific, Apple is advertising a 1000 nit full-screen sustained brightness With 1600 nit peaks, along with a million-to-one contrast ratio.

According to Apple, this new monitor renders the entire P3 color gamut and is a true 10-bit display. The company says the increase in contrast is the result of "precise backlight control" and that the design of the Pro Display XDR allows it to "dramatically reduce blooming using advanced LED technology, light shaping, and intelligent image processing." - Apple.com

In addition to the incredible contrast performance and the high peak brightness, Apple says that this LCD display has a "Superwide viewing angle" that is achieved using polarizer technology. In Apple's own terminology, this display has "25X better off axis contrast than a typical LCD."

Apple also highlights the extremely low roof activity of this new screen. A nano texture coating on the glass maintains contrast when the monitor is used in brighter settings, and does not add any haze or sparkle, unlike some other antireflective coatings. However, this coding will cost an extra $1000 over the $4999 base price.

Notably, this is a 6K monitor—6016 by 3384 pixels (20.4 million pixels). Apple gives it the Retina 6K moniker And notes that it provides a pixel density of 218 PPI.

This is a 576-zone FALD-LCD display. The company notes that "each of the displays 576 LEDs is individually calibrated and has its light profile stored." Which allows the monitor to then modulate those LEDs with high precision.

An optional "Pro Stand" is available for $999 that allows for height adjustment as well as rotation of the monitor.

It will certainly be interesting to see if Apple has achieved a new level of quality for LCD display technology with this monitor.
Hi Mark,

I am looking forward to reading some reviews. Did Apple say when it would be available? Thanks.

Aja
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post #4 of 82 Old 06-04-2019, 06:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi Mark,

I am looking forward to reading some reviews. Did Apple say when it would be available? Thanks.

Aja
Fall of this year.

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post #5 of 82 Old 06-04-2019, 06:40 AM
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Well the cost of only a 32" Monitor of this kind is going to be steep! According Apple $5000 for standard glass and $6000 for nano-textured glass! Yikes more than most the whole systems they sell.

https://www.apple.com/pro-display-xdr/specs/

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post #6 of 82 Old 06-04-2019, 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post
Looking forward to seeing one.

But, unless it comes with an ATM stocked with 20's, there's no way I'm paying that for a 32" monitor.
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Well the cost of only a 32" Monitor of this kind is going to be steep! According Apple $5000 for standard glass and $6000 for nano-textured glass! Yikes more than most the whole systems they sell.

https://www.apple.com/pro-display-xdr/specs/
Apple is aiming at the professional monitor market, not the Dell consumer market. Of course, in order to justify the price, the optical performance has to be up to snuff and has to maintain it for years of use. The stand and VESA mount are the outrageously priced items here.
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post #7 of 82 Old 06-04-2019, 06:59 AM
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If what Apple is bragging about pans out in the real world, this represents the moment when LCD takes the lead from OLED without giving up any performance when it comes to contrast. To be specific, Apple is advertising a 1000 nit full-screen sustained brightness With 1600 nit peaks, along with a million-to-one contrast ratio.

According to Apple, this new monitor renders the entire P3 color gamut and is a true 10-bit display. The company says the increase in contrast is the result of "precise backlight control" and that the design of the Pro Display XDR allows it to "dramatically reduce blooming using advanced LED technology, light shaping, and intelligent image processing." - Apple.com

I'll believe it when I see it, Asus had an IPS panel with 384 zones and it still wasn't that great in terms of contrast. There are still only 576 zones (vs the ~8 million that OLED has). I don't know why all these displays try to compare themselves to OLED (I mean, I do), but until they can get the black-floor consistently as low as OLED when the zone is active (or small enough zones; I don't think 576 zones for 32" are going to be small enough), it seems like a such a reach to me.


Also, am I the only one that thinks 1000+ nits is WAY too much for a monitor? I know you can turn it down, but man, that seems eye-searing to me!
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post #8 of 82 Old 06-04-2019, 07:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JediMindTrick View Post
I'll believe it when I see it, Asus had an IPS panel with 384 zones and it still wasn't that great in terms of contrast. There are still only 576 zones (vs the ~8 million that OLED has). I don't know why all these displays try to compare themselves to OLED (I mean, I do), but until they can get the black-floor consistently as low as OLED when the zone is active (or small enough zones; I don't think 576 zones for 32" are going to be small enough), it seems like a such a reach to me.


Also, am I the only one that thinks 1000+ nits is WAY too much for a monitor? I know you can turn it down, but man, that seems eye-searing to me!
Apple is also claiming IPS like viewing angles. The question is how the million to one contrast rating was derived... Is that ANSI contrast? "Dynamic" contrast? Or something else?

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post #9 of 82 Old 06-04-2019, 07:11 AM
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I am skeptical of this myself. They claim the way they got such high black levels is with blue Led's with better heat management. Anyone with more technical knowledge feel free to chime in!
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post #10 of 82 Old 06-04-2019, 07:35 AM
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My understanding is that they are basically layering two IPS panels on top of each other. One is a standard color panel and the other is gray scale. So if you multiply the contrast ratio 1000 x 1000 you get the 1 million to 1 contrast. It isn't clear to me that it still has normal IPS viewing angles, but it is possible.



Here is a article on Anandtech from 2016. I would bet it is the same technology.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/10874...its-brightness


I'm not really sure why it would even need local dimming, possibly for heat management?
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post #11 of 82 Old 06-04-2019, 07:47 AM
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Hey how about a power buy ...
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Originally Posted by MegaFlop View Post
My understanding is that they are basically layering two IPS panels on top of each other. One is a standard color panel and the other is gray scale. So if you multiply the contrast ratio 1000 x 1000 you get the 1 million to 1 contrast. It isn't clear to me that it still has normal IPS viewing angles, but it is possible.



Here is a article on Anandtech from 2016. I would bet it is the same technology.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/10874...its-brightness


I'm not really sure why it would even need local dimming, possibly for heat management?
From what I can see in the Apple listing, it does not seem to be dual IPS panels (which would make me a lot less skeptical to their claims).


It seems like the monitor is setup as follows:


Layer 1: FALD Layer - (blue LEDs) for contrast enhancement
Layer 2: Light Mixing and Shaping Layer - for minimizing bloom and increasing uniformity
Layer 3: Color Transformation Layer - for converting blue to white
Layer 4: Micro-Lens Array Layer - to keep uniformity around the edges consistent with the middle of the screen (seems like they added edge lighting the FALD layer for better uniformity?)
TCON: Controls the LEDs 10x faster than the monitors refresh-rate (not sure what 10x faster means in this case; faster FALD response times from what I can tell?)
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According to Apple, this new monitor renders the entire P3 color gamut and is a true 10-bit display.

As opposed to fake 10 bit TVs we had since 2016?

I know companies will try very hard to hype up their products including using phrases like that.

So the better question is........... to buy this for $6k or a 77inch OLED for the same price.... hmmm decisions..decisions


Yes I'm aware that a monitor and a TV serves different functions but when you distill and boil it down to the essence this is still a 32inch monitor

I'll give them bonus credit for the 20 Megapixels though, although then again it's being wasted on a screen that's only 32inch so I guess I take that bonus credit back.
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post #14 of 82 Old 06-04-2019, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JediMindTrick View Post
From what I can see in the Apple listing, it does not seem to be dual IPS panels (which would make me a lot less skeptical to their claims).


It seems like the monitor is setup as follows:


Layer 1: FALD Layer - (blue LEDs) for contrast enhancement
Layer 2: Light Mixing and Shaping Layer - for minimizing bloom and increasing uniformity
Layer 3: Color Transformation Layer - for converting blue to white
Layer 4: Micro-Lens Array Layer - to keep uniformity around the edges consistent with the middle of the screen (seems like they added edge lighting the FALD layer for better uniformity?)
TCON: Controls the LEDs 10x faster than the monitors refresh-rate (not sure what 10x faster means in this case; faster FALD response times from what I can tell?)

Well shoot, that is disappointing then.



Asus has announced a 32" ProArt 4K IPS monitor with 1000 zones of dimming available this year. I'm not saying they are directly comparable but the Apple display is certainly less "special" then I thought it was...
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Well shoot, that is disappointing then.



Asus has announced a 32" ProArt 4K IPS monitor with 1000 zones of dimming available this year. I'm not saying they are directly comparable but the Apple display is certainly less "special" then I thought it was...
Agreed, aside from the 6K, this does not seem like it will be remotely worth the price (for most consumers). Apple seems so strange sometimes, though if they feel like they can sell enough at this price to warrant making them, more power to them.
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post #16 of 82 Old 06-04-2019, 08:26 AM
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The fact that this is a 6K is more negative to me than positive. I suppose if one were doing photo or video editing the resolution might be beneficial, but for anyone wanting to view full-screen 4K content, the resolution mismatch is bound to introduce unwanted softness.

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post #17 of 82 Old 06-04-2019, 08:32 AM
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The fact that this is a 6K is more negative to me than positive. I suppose if one were doing photo or video editing the resolution might be beneficial, but for anyone wanting to view full-screen 4K content, the resolution mismatch is bound to introduce unwanted softness.
What do you think Apple's target audience is, bud? This isn't for people wanting to watch 4K movies. This is a work tool for professionals doing EXACTLY what you just described above.
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post #18 of 82 Old 06-04-2019, 08:34 AM - Thread Starter
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What do you think Apple's target audience is, bud? This isn't for people wanting to watch 4K movies. This is a work tool for professionals doing EXACTLY what you just described above.
Sure, the idea being that you can see the entire 4K picture and still have room for menus and toolbars and timeline while mastering content that consumers must then scramble to get their TVs to accurately reproduce.
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post #19 of 82 Old 06-04-2019, 09:23 AM
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Also, am I the only one that thinks 1000+ nits is WAY too much for a monitor? I know you can turn it down, but man, that seems eye-searing to me!

The actual nits produced isn't the problem. Just as resolution is directly related to visual acuity and viewing distance, so is nits related to field of view, viewing distance, and environment.


A sun glinting off a car can be over 10K nits. But that's doesn't necessarily make you squint. It's how close you are, how much field of view it takes up, how bright it is, how dark or bright the surrounding environment is and how that impacts how dialted your pupil is to take in so much light, etc.


I have yet to see anyone really calculate how much nits is required for a given environment, with a set seating distance and certain screen size.
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post #20 of 82 Old 06-04-2019, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by MegaFlop View Post
My understanding is that they are basically layering two IPS panels on top of each other. One is a standard color panel and the other is gray scale. So if you multiply the contrast ratio 1000 x 1000 you get the 1 million to 1 contrast. It isn't clear to me that it still has normal IPS viewing angles, but it is possible.



Here is a article on Anandtech from 2016. I would bet it is the same technology.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/10874...its-brightness


I'm not really sure why it would even need local dimming, possibly for heat management?

Though it appears based on a post below yours that it isn't the case, it would be funny if it was since HiSense (or was it TCL) just recently announced they're working on that same thing. And now Panasonic.



Wondering if it's like most things in the CE world, where really only one or maybe two companies actually develop, build and supply these and the rest of the industry buys from them. then they try and make it seem like they're the ones who came up wth the bright idea.


BTW, Christie has been using the same technique in their commercial laser projectors for years placed in Dolby Cinemas. Two DMD (Digital Micro-mirror Devices) are used to sequentially multiply the the contrast.
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What do you think Apple's target audience is, bud? This isn't for people wanting to watch 4K movies. This is a work tool for professionals doing EXACTLY what you just described above.
No harm in watching a few movies in between work breaks though. Just don’t tell the Boss.
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Do you think we will see a real performance comparison between it and the Sony Reference Monitor?
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Originally Posted by JediMindTrick View Post
I'll believe it when I see it, Asus had an IPS panel with 384 zones and it still wasn't that great in terms of contrast. There are still only 576 zones (vs the ~8 million that OLED has). I don't know why all these displays try to compare themselves to OLED (I mean, I do), but until they can get the black-floor consistently as low as OLED when the zone is active (or small enough zones; I don't think 576 zones for 32" are going to be small enough), it seems like a such a reach to me.


Also, am I the only one that thinks 1000+ nits is WAY too much for a monitor? I know you can turn it down, but man, that seems eye-searing to me!
Not just you. 1000 nits is too much from 1 feet away. Does it come with medical fees?
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Originally Posted by PrestigeAudio View Post
What do you think Apple's target audience is, bud?
It has been rumored here and on other AV sites that Apple was thinking about entering the TV market for a few years now. It makes sense that it is a work tool, but given the target audience of this site, It's not unrealistic that it could be an HDR grading monitor, which currently tend to come in 1080P or 4K resolutions for the reason I mentioned.

I am also part of Apple's target audience, which has primarily been casual consumer-based since at least the debut of the iPhone.

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Apple has said since the presentation that this isn't a consumer monitor. In fact, during the announcement they made explicit comparisons to $20K+ reference monitors making their target market pretty clear.
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post #26 of 82 Old 06-04-2019, 05:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Apple has said since the presentation that this isn't a consumer monitor. In fact, during the announcement they made explicit comparisons to $20K+ reference monitors making their target market pretty clear.
I'm guessing some OLED monitors in that list, which is why this is so interesting.

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I'm guessing some OLED monitors in that list, which is why this is so interesting.

Apples 6K Pro Display at $6,000
Can’t hold a candle to the $30,000 Sony Reference 4K OLED. It’s a Hollywood industry standard. To which mixing and mastering professionals calibrate movies on before they “go gold” and are authorized to go into production.

What this 6K Pro Display targets are the Pseudo-Professionals who don’t know any better. Think $6,000 is a bargain compared to $30,000. Or Fancy themselves Youtubers aka iJustine, or “Content Creators” who edit a VLOG for YouTube and thus need a $6,000 Display.

Wake me up when Apple gets serious and offers Professional Displays

Like $50,000 Medical and Surgical Displays where a surgeon needs to Know what exact shade of red is, it blood, or a piece of a tumor etc. and have Zero input lag, because each movement needs to be seen to the nanosecond. There are tens of dozens of companies making Surgical Displays. And they can go far beyond $50,000

https://www.lg.com/us/business/comme.../lg-27HJ710S-W

Or the Sony BVM-x300 which is an industry standard, if you own a 4K UHD Blu-ray it’s was examined on a 4K Sony OLED first.

What Apple is offering is literally a weekend quarter back amateur Fisher-Price toy.

I can see people, buying an Apple, 6K Pro Display, a $1300 Canon ProGraph Printer, a LUMIX GH5 and they have no idea how to calibrate color so they match on any of their gear.
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The comparison Apple made was on stage was to a $43,000 Sony Reference monitor. I'm not sure what the precise model was.

In the demo area, journalists had an opportunity to compare the display to standard consumer LCDs and to reference monitors they had there. I haven't seen reporting identifying the specific models.


I'm sorry, I don't know how anyone can claim this isn't a reference-class monitor. It doesn't matter what you think of Apple or the fact that they are undercutting the competition on price, the specifications speak for themselves.

32-inch
6K Resolution
Full P3 Wide Color
10-bit
576 full array local dimming zones
1000-nits full-field sustained brightness
1600 nits peak brightness
1,000,000:1 contrast ratio
Precise Calibration
Reference Modes Built-in***
Super Wide Viewing Angle
Nano-textured anti-reflective matte option

***Reference Modes:

HDR Video (P3-ST 2084)
HDTV Video (BT.709-BT.1886)
NTSC Video (BT.601 SMPTE-C)
PAL and SECAM Video (BT.601 EBU)
Digital Cinema (P3-DCI)
Digital Cinema (P3-D65)
Design and Print (P3-D50)
Photography (P3-D65)
Internet and Web (sRGB)


If you are suggesting that the company is lying about the specs, well, we'll see. I doubt it.
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post #29 of 82 Old 06-04-2019, 06:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Cold View Post
Apples 6K Pro Display at $6,000
Can’t hold a candle to the $30,000 Sony Reference 4K OLED. It’s a Hollywood industry standard. To which mixing and mastering professionals calibrate movies on before they “go gold” and are authorized to go into production.

What this 6K Pro Display targets are the Pseudo-Professionals who don’t know any better. Think $6,000 is a bargain compared to $30,000. Or Fancy themselves Youtubers aka iJustine, or “Content Creators” who edit a VLOG for YouTube and thus need a $6,000 Display.

Wake me up when Apple gets serious and offers Professional Displays

Like $50,000 Medical and Surgical Displays where a surgeon needs to Know what exact shade of red is, it blood, or a piece of a tumor etc. and have Zero input lag, because each movement needs to be seen to the nanosecond. There are tens of dozens of companies making Surgical Displays. And they can go far beyond $50,000

https://www.lg.com/us/business/comme.../lg-27HJ710S-W

Or the Sony BVM-x300 which is an industry standard, if you own a 4K UHD Blu-ray it’s was examined on a 4K Sony OLED first.

What Apple is offering is literally a weekend quarter back amateur Fisher-Price toy.

I can see people, buying an Apple, 6K Pro Display, a $1300 Canon ProGraph Printer, a LUMIX GH5 and they have no idea how to calibrate color so they match on any of their gear.
I'm glad you know all of this before the monitor even ships, that's very impressive.
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post #30 of 82 Old 06-04-2019, 07:07 PM
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I'll eat my hat if it scores higher than 4000:1 on an ANSI pattern.
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