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post #1 of 15 Old 06-06-2019, 03:07 AM - Thread Starter
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TCL 65X4US - Judder Reduction Problem

Hi All

I recently purchased a TCL 65X4US (in India). It's a QLED TV with a 4K/HDR10/60Hz panel. It is close to impossible to find any technical details about the television !!!

I am facing a problem when playing content from Netflix, USB drive etc (I have mostly tried 4K/HDR content). If I keep the "Judder Reduction" slider to zero, the video playback is choppy. If I keep the the slider to a non-zero value, the stutter goes away, but their motion interpolation seems to be a disaster. Parts of the screen that moves often becomes a garbled/pixelated mess. I visited another store and tried the same content on TVs from other brands (Samsung QLED/LG OLED/Sony OLED). With the motion smoothing feature disabled, the content is choppy like in my TV. But when enabled, all of them do a much better job at motion interpolation.

So the question is : Is there any work-around ? Like perform the interpolation externally and feed the 60FPS content to the television ? Say if I connect an Xbox One X, is there some option to do something like this ?
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post #2 of 15 Old 06-06-2019, 04:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Nubin Stanley View Post
Hi All

I recently purchased a TCL 65X4US (in India). It's a QLED TV with a 4K/HDR10/60Hz panel. It is close to impossible to find any technical details about the television !!!

I am facing a problem when playing content from Netflix, USB drive etc (I have mostly tried 4K/HDR content). If I keep the "Judder Reduction" slider to zero, the video playback is choppy. If I keep the the slider to a non-zero value, the stutter goes away, but their motion interpolation seems to be a disaster. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/frown.gif[/IMG] Parts of the screen that moves often becomes a garbled/pixelated mess. I visited another store and tried the same content on TVs from other brands (Samsung QLED/LG OLED/Sony OLED). With the motion smoothing feature disabled, the content is choppy like in my TV. But when enabled, all of them do a much better job at motion interpolation.

So the question is : Is there any work-around ? Like perform the interpolation externally and feed the 60FPS content to the television ? Say if I connect an Xbox One X, is there some option to do something like this ?
I don't believe there is a way to do it with an Xbox, but if you have a somewhat modern pc you can look into madvr and SVP to setup motion interpolation externally from the TV.
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post #3 of 15 Old 06-06-2019, 04:20 AM - Thread Starter
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I don't believe there is a way to do it with an Xbox, but if you have a somewhat modern pc you can look into madvr and SVP to setup motion interpolation externally from the TV.
I do have a decent desktop, but I cannot keep that plugged to the TV. The spare laptop that I have does not work in 4K.

With any motion smoothening feature, I have usually seen the phenomenon called the "soap opera effect". Without it, the video is choppy. Is there no way to play a 24 FPS video with these features disabled and still get a stutter free playback ? I mean, every TV that comes out these days are 60/120/240 HZ ?
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post #4 of 15 Old 06-06-2019, 06:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Nubin Stanley View Post
I do have a decent desktop, but I cannot keep that plugged to the TV. The spare laptop that I have does not work in 4K.

With any motion smoothening feature, I have usually seen the phenomenon called the "soap opera effect". Without it, the video is choppy. Is there no way to play a 24 FPS video with these features disabled and still get a stutter free playback ? I mean, every TV that comes out these days are 60/120/240 HZ ?
I don't mind SOE [as long as there are no/few artifacts, which is the issue you were describing], but understand what you are getting at. Also, just to be clear, are you getting judder (random intervals) or stutter (pretty regular intervals)? The TV should be able to get rid of judder (based on how 'new' the TV seems to be and the fact that TCL's bottom tier 55" 4K TVs don't have judder issues), but may struggle with stutter due to the faster response time (assuming the response time is similar to something like the R617 in the US).

This article (https://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/motion/stutter) should be able to explain the issue a lot better than I ever could. All I know is that the faster the TV, the more stutter it has (OLED has pretty instant response time and has the most stutter; older VA panels had pretty bad response times and had a lot less stutter).


Other than that, I think 60hz is the most problematic of the refresh rates since it is not an even multiple for 24p like 120hz and 240hz are.
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post #5 of 15 Old 06-06-2019, 06:59 AM - Thread Starter
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I don't mind SOE [as long as there are no/few artifacts, which is the issue you were describing], but understand what you are getting at. Also, just to be clear, are you getting judder (random intervals) or stutter (pretty regular intervals)? The TV should be able to get rid of judder (based on how 'new' the TV seems to be and the fact that TCL's bottom tier 55" 4K TVs don't have judder issues), but may struggle with stutter due to the faster response time (assuming the response time is similar to something like the R617 in the US).

This article () should be able to explain the issue a lot better than I ever could. All I know is that the faster the TV, the more stutter it has (OLED has pretty instant response time and has the most stutter; older VA panels had pretty bad response times and had a lot less stutter).


Other than that, I think 60hz is the most problematic of the refresh rates since it is not an even multiple for 24p like 120hz and 240hz are.
Yeah, to be frank, I can live with SOE as well. My problem is the artifacts with judder reduction enabled.

And from what I can see, it should be stutter as it seems pretty evenly spaced in panning shots.

So, there is nothing much that can be done with the 60Hz panel that I have....?
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post #6 of 15 Old 06-06-2019, 07:53 AM
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Yeah, to be frank, I can live with SOE as well. My problem is the artifacts with judder reduction enabled.

And from what I can see, it should be stutter as it seems pretty evenly spaced in panning shots.

So, there is nothing much that can be done with the 60Hz panel that I have....?

As far as stutter/artifacts are concerned, probably not. My C6 oled had the same problem with respect to stutter and artifacting; I just got used to the stuttering (whenever I get my HTPC setup again, I'll setup SVP again). It took some time, but it really doesn't seem as jarring as it did initially.



How much 4K content do you watch/what types of programming do you watch? If you watch a lot of ripped/downloaded content, your laptop should be able to handle motion interpolation at 1080p (don't have madVR upscale it) without too much of an issue.



If you watch a lot of streamed content, you may be SOL as far as an external motion interpolater (though I swear madVR was coming out with a stand-alone product of some sort [no idea what it is/what it does]), since I cannot think of anything that will process Netflix and the like's streams in real time.


It could be worth experimenting on your laptop/desktop to see if saving up for an HTPC would be worth it (all you really need is a GTX 1050 ti [or better] card). Would it be possible to get a longer HDMI cable (assuming your GPU supports HDMI 2.0 for 4K60HZ)? That way you could leave your PC hooked up to your desktop.


Sorry that none of these options are that great; unfortunately, it is what it is with 60hz panels and the push to decrease response times (darn gamers!).
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post #7 of 15 Old 06-06-2019, 09:26 AM - Thread Starter
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As far as stutter/artifacts are concerned, probably not. My C6 oled had the same problem with respect to stutter and artifacting; I just got used to the stuttering (whenever I get my HTPC setup again, I'll setup SVP again). It took some time, but it really doesn't seem as jarring as it did initially.



How much 4K content do you watch/what types of programming do you watch? If you watch a lot of ripped/downloaded content, your laptop should be able to handle motion interpolation at 1080p (don't have madVR upscale it) without too much of an issue.



If you watch a lot of streamed content, you may be SOL as far as an external motion interpolater (though I swear madVR was coming out with a stand-alone product of some sort [no idea what it is/what it does]), since I cannot think of anything that will process Netflix and the like's streams in real time.


It could be worth experimenting on your laptop/desktop to see if saving up for an HTPC would be worth it (all you really need is a GTX 1050 ti [or better] card). Would it be possible to get a longer HDMI cable (assuming your GPU supports HDMI 2.0 for 4K60HZ)? That way you could leave your PC hooked up to your desktop.


Sorry that none of these options are that great; unfortunately, it is what it is with 60hz panels and the push to decrease response times (darn gamers!).

I did checkout an LG OLED today. Think it was a C8. Without the motion smoothening enabled, I could see the same stutter. But with the motion smoothening, it was doing a phenomenal job at interpolation compared to my TV.

Could try madVR on the laptop I have connected to the TV. But then again, most of the stuff I watch are streamed.

I do have a GTX 1080 on my desktop, but as I said, connecting it to the TV is not an option.

Well, looks like there is nothing more I could do at the moment. Anyhow, thank you for your time.

I was planning on getting an Xbox One X. So, playing from a BluRay should have the stutter as well right ?
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post #8 of 15 Old 06-06-2019, 09:42 AM
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May help to read through this.


https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...-vs-120hz.html


And aren't you on a 50Hz cycle in India?

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post #9 of 15 Old 06-06-2019, 10:35 AM - Thread Starter
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May help to read through this.


https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...-vs-120hz.html


And aren't you on a 50Hz cycle in India?
Well, that was a good read. 🙂

I was actually think of returning the TV. Maybe I'll keep it now. Anyhow, I can't get another 4K QLED in the same price range. 😛

And hopefully TCL would role out an update to do something about their interpolation. And I think I'd just get used to the stutter by then. 😛

And I did not exactly understand the 50Hz question. 🙂
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post #10 of 15 Old 06-07-2019, 06:41 AM - Thread Starter
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May help to read through this.


https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...-vs-120hz.html


And aren't you on a 50Hz cycle in India?
One last question (hopefully) :

I see a few people claiming (in the thread above) that when they play BluRays or stream from an Xbox, the motion is smooth.

How is this possible? The stutter in paning shots caused by 24p content playing on 60/120Hz panels will always be there?

Is there any way around it? Other than using the motion smoothing features?
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post #11 of 15 Old 06-07-2019, 07:02 AM
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One last question (hopefully) :

I see a few people claiming (in the thread above) that when they play BluRays or stream from an Xbox, the motion is smooth.

How is this possible? The stutter in paning shots caused by 24p content playing on 60/120Hz panels will always be there?

Is there any way around it? Other than using the motion smoothing features?
They honestly might not be sensitive to it. The stutter should always be there if no motion interpolation is going on.
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post #12 of 15 Old 06-07-2019, 09:40 AM
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@JediMindTrick is probably correct in that assessment. I don't think that it is gone, I think they don't see it. Some just don't.

Does your TV have an 'Auto' setting for frame rate? Film mode? Cinema?

I was only asking about the 50Hz because I wasn't sure if the Netflix app on TCL in India is native 24p or using the old PAL refresh rate to be at 24p via 50p. May also be on 24p via 60p. The Netflix app on Xbox is locked at 24p via 60p in the US as far as I know. Not important. Just let that go.

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They honestly might not be sensitive to it. The stutter should always be there if no motion interpolation is going on.
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post #14 of 15 Old 06-08-2019, 12:13 AM - Thread Starter
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@JediMindTrick is probably correct in that assessment. I don't think that it is gone, I think they don't see it. Some just don't.

Does your TV have an 'Auto' setting for frame rate? Film mode? Cinema?

I was only asking about the 50Hz because I wasn't sure if the Netflix app on TCL in India is native 24p or using the old PAL refresh rate to be at 24p via 50p. May also be on 24p via 60p. The Netflix app on Xbox is locked at 24p via 60p in the US as far as I know. Not important. Just let that go.
No frame rate related settings at all. 😞

I had a cheap 42" LED TV earlier. And I don't remember noticing any of this. 😛 Maybe I was not looking for it. Does it become more obvious coz of the higher resolution and screen size?
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post #15 of 15 Old 06-14-2019, 06:18 AM
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No frame rate related settings at all. 😞

I had a cheap 42" LED TV earlier. And I don't remember noticing any of this. 😛 Maybe I was not looking for it. Does it become more obvious coz of the higher resolution and screen size?
Sorry for the late reply, but depending on how old it is, it is possible the response time was really slow and blended the frames together "properly."
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