TCL 8-Series, 6-Series QLED TVs - Page 27 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #781 of 1460 Old 10-03-2019, 01:27 PM
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So does the whole 60Hz panel vs 120Hz panel thing affect console gaming on the PS4 and Xbox One as well? Or just movies and PC gaming?


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post #782 of 1460 Old 10-03-2019, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Smiller4128 View Post
So does the whole 60Hz panel vs 120Hz panel thing affect console gaming on the PS4 and Xbox One as well? Or just movies and PC gaming?


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I, and this is my personal opinion, don't think it affects anyone unless they are a PC gamer. The new consoles might take advantage of 120hz panels but I am not convinced yet.
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post #783 of 1460 Old 10-03-2019, 02:31 PM
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Or one could view it as these Chinese companies are closing in quickly on the quality of the Japanese and Korean companies, making the price premium not worth it in the consumer's eyes.

Good point however I think it was Quantum Dots, by Nanosys that was the end. Somehow Samsung didn’t aquire of force some type of exclusive deal from Nanosys for Quantum Dots. And now Nanosys sells Quantum Dot technology to everyone.
Come to think of it Samsung did have Quantum Dots 2-3 years exclusive before everyone else.
But looking back buying out Nanosys, would have prevented this predicament they are now in transitioning to OLED, a much more expensive route, than just buying out Nanosys.
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post #784 of 1460 Old 10-03-2019, 03:03 PM
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Now I really have a dilemma. Samsung EPP having a massive sale. Search for 4k tvs on slickdeals. So for the same price as an 8 series 65 inch, you can get a Q80R 75 inch. Very tempting. If good 65 inch TCL R625 were available I would get one again, then wait for a year and move it to a bedroom for hopefully a very large 8 series.
In all fairness, you do not yet know what the 8 Series will sell for... especially after it's been out for a few months...

But yes that would make decisions tough. That's part of why I would never be an early adopter of ANY TV though.. just doesn't make sense to me. One can almost always buy "last year's model" which is probably 95% of the experience for like 60% of the cost. This year was a perfect example between the Sony X950G and the X900F. Or, at the very least.. wait a measly 3-6 months before you buy as the price will come down 25% or so from the initial MSRP.

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post #785 of 1460 Old 10-03-2019, 03:09 PM
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Good point however I think it was Quantum Dots, by Nanosys that was the end. Somehow Samsung didn’t aquire of force some type of exclusive deal from Nanosys for Quantum Dots. And now Nanosys sells Quantum Dot technology to everyone.
Come to think of it Samsung did have Quantum Dots 2-3 years exclusive before everyone else.
But looking back buying out Nanosys, would have prevented this predicament they are now in transitioning to OLED, a much more expensive route, than just buying out Nanosys.
Sony was first to offer "quantum dot" tech for consumer TV's. They still use it, people just don't even realize it (even on this forum, lol) because they don't call it "QLED." They call it "Triluminous" and it uses passive quantum dot tech just like Samsung's QLED sets... non-coated LED in a glass tube surrounded by quantum nano-crystals, etc. etc. which is both more efficient (light output) and accurate than a coated blue LED with filters alone.

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post #786 of 1460 Old 10-03-2019, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Ice Cold View Post
So big Chinese companies Huawei, TCL, Hisense have effectively push quality LCDs Sony, Samsung, LG, Out of the LCD market into OLEDs.
Something tells me this is bad news for the US consumer and for quality LCDs
You say this, but I don't see a whole lot of complaining going on over in the X950G owner's thread.. by actual owners.

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Or one could view it as these Chinese companies are closing in quickly on the quality of the Japanese and Korean companies, making the price premium not worth it in the consumer's eyes.
TCL is great, but so is SONY. It just depends on what you're going for. LCD is dying anyway, so any TV manufacturer that wants to continue to exist in the future is surely looking into emissive tech such as Micro-LED, etc. OLED is also emissive and can benefit from quantum dot tech. So technology is what's pushing Sony and Samsung out of LCD.. not their competition. Their competition is probably behind, and will follow. Companies like TCL often will let Sony innovate, then eventually those innovations will be passed down such as QLED now being on TCL. Once that happens, you can bet that the next big thing is coming, and it'll probably come from the likes of Sony and Samsung. Mini-LED is cool (new TCL 8 series), but to me it's just a stop-gap and won't really add anything or take anything away. Sony's BMD system was capable of Mini-LED results, if not better. But it (BMD) is just too expensive to justify in today's market. And I bet Sony isn't bothering to spend money to develop Mini-LED because they know that Mini-LED is, basically, already outdated. Honestly, TCL is probably making a BIG bet and hoping that they really cash in on the 8 Series before it's outdated (soon). I honestly think it's super risky, and I won't be surprised if TCL pays for it in the end. I just really don't think that there are that many people out there willing to pay so much for any LCD, much less a TCL. The reason Sony doesn't make the same quality LCD that they used to is because no one wanted to pay that much for an LCD! And now TCL is going to give it a shot? Luckily they can keep their prices a little less than Sony/Samsung because they spend less on R&D and marketing, but still. Risky.

So sure, the price premium might not be worth it today, in your eyes.. But that price premium is often what actually lends to innovation. I'm not saying that TCL can't innovate on their own.. I'm just generally speaking from history. That said, times are changing and the internet has changed everything.

But really, it all starts to make sense when you step back and look at the big picture (no pun intended). Sony is obviously not worrying a whole lot about their LCD game right now. They've been there and done that. Now it's cheap to make a great LCD so they'll let TCL do it. They've already moved on. Besides, the big names still make a better product, even if the additional cost isn't worth it in everyone's eyes. The top dogs are still the top dogs.. until they go out of business and they aren't. ..that's where R&D comes in. Can't keep selling the same old tech for a premium forever.. eventually the new kids on the block show up and push you either out, or on to bigger things! Normal.
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post #787 of 1460 Old 10-03-2019, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by 12B4A View Post
While it hasn't manifested fully, China is the display tech leader now. Funny how that happens 15-20 years after their government starts to pump up their engineering college system...
Why do you say they're the leader?

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post #788 of 1460 Old 10-03-2019, 04:40 PM
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I, and this is my personal opinion, don't think it affects anyone unless they are a PC gamer. The new consoles might take advantage of 120hz panels but I am not convinced yet.
It doesn't even effect most PC Gamers. It's mostly for those that play fast paced games (like certain FPS games) more competitively and need that extra information and smoothness. For most people, 120 Hz honestly doesn't matter. Even if you can't stand tearing or the marginal amount of input lag VSYNC adds, there's something called single-buffer VSYNC which works quite well.
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post #789 of 1460 Old 10-03-2019, 05:27 PM
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It doesn't even effect most PC Gamers. It's mostly for those that play fast paced games (like certain FPS games) more competitively and need that extra information and smoothness. For most people, 120 Hz honestly doesn't matter. Even if you can't stand tearing or the marginal amount of input lag VSYNC adds, there's something called single-buffer VSYNC which works quite well.
I somewhat disagree about high refresh rate not mattering (with a PC and screen capable of properly doing it), but I just want to point out that in this case it's not even a matter of whether high refresh rate has benefits, it's that this TV just can't even display a 120hz signal at all. So in this case, the benefits of the panel being 120hz vs 60hz TVs are very small. The extra benefits are there, but to most people probably are negligible.
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post #790 of 1460 Old 10-03-2019, 05:41 PM
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60 vs 120 HZ panel- where it can matter is with 24 Hz Movies. The reason is that 24 divides into 120 evenly at 5 frames per second. 24 does not divide evenly into 60 therefore the TV processor must manipulate and insert frames to make up the difference.
FOMO did a good job of explaining this in his R625 video on motion.
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post #791 of 1460 Old 10-03-2019, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by ggw2000 View Post
60 vs 120 HZ panel- where it can matter is with 24 Hz Movies. The reason is that 24 divides into 120 evenly at 5 frames per second. 24 does not divide evenly into 60 therefore the TV processor must manipulate and insert frames to make up the difference.
FOMO did a good job of explaining this in his R625 video on motion.
Gerry
Fascinating to me that this gets forgotten about. The whole point for a 120hz panel for years was to prevent 3:2 pulldown and had nothing to do with gaming.
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post #792 of 1460 Old 10-03-2019, 06:45 PM
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does anyone know when bestbuy will carry the tcl r625?
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post #793 of 1460 Old 10-03-2019, 07:09 PM
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does anyone know when bestbuy will carry the tcl r625?
No word yet.
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post #794 of 1460 Old 10-03-2019, 07:11 PM
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does anyone know when bestbuy will carry the tcl r625?

Yes its coming soon..I have been told some have received them..In the back..Just have to inventory and website stuff.





https://www.electronicexpress.com...TCL-65R625

or you can buy through amazon with same seller..799.99

Buying through electronics express there is no tax for me and free shipping (NY)
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post #795 of 1460 Old 10-03-2019, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by ggw2000 View Post
60 vs 120 HZ panel- where it can matter is with 24 Hz Movies. The reason is that 24 divides into 120 evenly at 5 frames per second. 24 does not divide evenly into 60 therefore the TV processor must manipulate and insert frames to make up the difference.
FOMO did a good job of explaining this in his R625 video on motion.
Gerry
This doesn’t matter much anymore, since most current TV’s are capable of running at 48 Hz when displaying 24 Hz content.
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post #796 of 1460 Old 10-03-2019, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by ggw2000 View Post
60 vs 120 HZ panel- where it can matter is with 24 Hz Movies. The reason is that 24 divides into 120 evenly at 5 frames per second. 24 does not divide evenly into 60 therefore the TV processor must manipulate and insert frames to make up the difference.

FOMO did a good job of explaining this in his R625 video on motion.

Gerry
I would hope the 2019 model does what the 2018 model does. It drops down to 48hz so there is no judder with 24p movies.

Or are you saying the new sets took a step backwards?

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post #797 of 1460 Old 10-03-2019, 08:57 PM
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625 is showing back in stock at Electronic Express. I've been told Best Buys should be getting them soon as well. Bigger question is when is the 825s coming.
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post #798 of 1460 Old 10-03-2019, 09:25 PM
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I would hope the 2019 model does what the 2018 model does. It drops down to 48hz so there is no judder with 24p movies.

Or are you saying the new sets took a step backwards?

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It would be extremely odd if the R625 can't remove judder from all sources like the R615 can. But, weird things do happen. I guess we'll see what Rtings says in their review.

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post #799 of 1460 Old 10-03-2019, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by audionutzzzz View Post
Yes its coming soon..I have been told some have received them..In the back..Just have to inventory and website stuff.





https://www.electronicexpress.com...TCL-65R625

or you can buy through amazon with same seller..799.99

Buying through electronics express there is no tax for me and free shipping (NY)


Hopefully, BB guy told me they often show up online before they are in store. But that just may be for smaller areas like my store is in. I keep checking the website way too much.

On a side note I had no idea that TV's were dropping to 48hz to deal with judder. Never seen this in the specs of any TV before.

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post #800 of 1460 Old 10-03-2019, 10:23 PM
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I've been through this process before, so I think I can help you (Q90R owner here):



1. You either like or HATE Roku TV. I prefer Samsung's OS because I can quickly change TV settings and I'm always playing with my settings depending on the material (movies, lights off, gaming, sports, documentaries, etc.). Roku TV is very limiting and you have to access the deeper settings through the Roku App.

2. Q70R is a solid 120Hz panel, the TCL 6-Series 65R625 is only a 60Hz panel. This will be obvious in motion, 24p material and gaming.

3. Q70R supports more gaming resolutions than TCL.

4. But if none of the above matters to you, and you mostly watch streaming that outputs 60Hz content so you motion issues are less pronounced, the new 6 Series is worth considering.

5. But for the same price as a 65" Q70R, why not consider the 75" 6-Series that does have the 120Hz panel and you get the larger screen?



I'm waiting for the upcoming 8 Series which will be priced to go head-on with the Samsung Q80.


The 6 series has no issues with 24p content, because it is able to refresh at 48hz.
At least last years 6 was able too.


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post #801 of 1460 Old 10-04-2019, 12:06 AM
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I somewhat disagree about high refresh rate not mattering (with a PC and screen capable of properly doing it), but I just want to point out that in this case it's not even a matter of whether high refresh rate has benefits, it's that this TV just can't even display a 120hz signal at all. So in this case, the benefits of the panel being 120hz vs 60hz TVs are very small. The extra benefits are there, but to most people probably are negligible.
I didn't realize we were talking about a specific model when referring to 120 Hz vs 60 Hz. I assume you're talking about the H9F, and yes, that is a shame, but my comments reflect 120 Hz vs 60 Hz in general.

Which part did you disagree with? I'm always curious to understand others uses cases I didn't anticipate. Also note that I did not say it did not matter, I said it doesn't matter for most people, and attempted to specify situations on both cases, including some misconceptions about needing 120 Hz.

One such non-gaming case seems to have been covered by others here at least: the 'ol 3:2 pulldown. I think it's great these sets are finally starting to deal with them from a 60 Hz source.

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Fascinating to me that this gets forgotten about. The whole point for a 120hz panel for years was to prevent 3:2 pulldown and had nothing to do with gaming.
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post #802 of 1460 Old 10-04-2019, 12:19 AM
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The 4K 8 series is now listed on BB's website as coming soon. Both are listed at MSRP. .
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post #803 of 1460 Old 10-04-2019, 12:37 AM
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The 6 series just showed up on PC Richrad & Son site. Expected to ship from manufacturer 10/22
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post #804 of 1460 Old 10-04-2019, 04:56 AM
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This doesn’t matter much anymore, since most current TV’s are capable of running at 48 Hz when displaying 24 Hz content.
While that is true- doesn't that get into the perceived area of flickering to human eye? That would give 2 frames per second as compared to 5 frames per second on a 120Hz display. This has to effect motion and panning?
Gerry
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post #806 of 1460 Old 10-04-2019, 05:21 AM
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The 4K 8 series is now listed on BB's website as coming soon. Both are listed at MSRP. .
Very curious they have it listed before the 625s. Very tempted to hold off on getting the 625 and just see if the 825 will be in stock close to it.
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post #807 of 1460 Old 10-04-2019, 05:39 AM
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Very curious they have it listed before the 625s. Very tempted to hold off on getting the 625 and just see if the 825 will be in stock close to it.
I'm thinking it's quite possible that the 6 series does not see BB, at least not right away.



I retract what I just said. Just got a message from someone from TCL. He says that BB has stock and we should be seeing the 6 series there soon.
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post #808 of 1460 Old 10-04-2019, 07:09 AM
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While that is true- doesn't that get into the perceived area of flickering to human eye? That would give 2 frames per second as compared to 5 frames per second on a 120Hz display. This has to effect motion and panning?
Gerry
No. You don't have any trouble with motion and panning in the theater, do you?
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post #809 of 1460 Old 10-04-2019, 07:10 AM
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Or one could view it as these Chinese companies are closing in quickly on the quality of the Japanese and Korean companies, making the price premium not worth it in the consumer's eyes.
From what I can tell, LG seems to have priced OLED for the premium tier market and this worked as long as LCD picture quality could not keep up - at least for the set of people interested interested in top end quality and who could afford premium OLED. LG used to make money in the middle tier and bottom tier manufacturing LCD's screens for other monitor manufacturers. Once the Chinese got into the picture, they seem to have priced LG out of the LCD market. LG now only has the premium tier which is low volume and low cash flow. The Chinese are now coming up with micro-led and dual screen LCD technology which will dramatically reduce the quality difference. LG seems to be in a bind now. Either drop OLED prices to gain market share or stick to the high end and keep looking the rear mirror as the Chinese catch up. LG also seems to have had a shock recently when they released 8K LCD TV's at a similar price point to OLED TV's and the 8K's sold out. May show that consumers prefer 8K advances to OLD, or may show that the supply of 8K was very limited - who knows. Thing with this is that TCL is supposed to release an 8K TV next year, and if this is available at prices below OLED, will this be the death knell for LG?
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post #810 of 1460 Old 10-04-2019, 07:29 AM
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8 Series only 60hz

So, this is from the quick start manual pdf for the 8 series off of best buys website.
Attached a screengrab from the manual

Showing HDMI signal compatibility. No 120hz listed.

Would be a bummer if the flagship for around ~$2000 is not 120hz.
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tcl , tcl 6-series , tcl 8-series

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