Looking for a 43" TV. Vizio M437-G0, or Samsung Q60R? - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 68 Old 10-20-2019, 11:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Haven't heard back from anyone so I just wanted to update. This TV is kind of a flake fest. Maybe I got a bad apple, but it's got all kinds of bugs. I will list them with a brief description.

1. When attempting to stream 4K movies, at least twice, the 4x Fire TV has said "This HDMI input does not support HDCP 2.1, the video will play at the highest allowable resolution") . Manually changing FireTV to a lower resolution and back to Auto solved this. As far as I know, all of the inputs on this TV support 4k.

2. Onboard sound randomly shuts off when switching inputs. Soft Reboot solves it.

3. Smart Menu once had all the icons turn purple. Had to soft reboot TV through the Admin menu.

4. Randomly, when booting the TV from being hard powered off for long enough for the Smart Menu to shut down, I will be greeted with a spinning circle, and the menu will never display (until soft reboot again)

5. The previously mentioned backlight showing through the bottom left edge of the bezel.

In light of the above, I think I will be returning/exchanging mine to Costco. It's a shame, because the picture is beautiful. I was trying to hold out until they maybe get a higher end Brand/model (with at least the same features) in the stores to upgrade to, but I don't want to forget about it, and pass the 90 day return window.

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post #32 of 68 Old 10-20-2019, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by cam94zee View Post
Haven't heard back from anyone so I just wanted to update. This TV is kind of a flake fest. Maybe I got a bad apple, but it's got all kinds of bugs. I will list them with a brief description.

1. When attempting to stream 4K movies, at least twice, the 4x Fire TV has said "This HDMI input does not support HDCP 2.1, the video will play at the highest allowable resolution") . Manually changing FireTV to a lower resolution and back to Auto solved this. As far as I know, all of the inputs on this TV support 4k.

2. Onboard sound randomly shuts off when switching inputs. Soft Reboot solves it.

3. Smart Menu once had all the icons turn purple. Had to soft reboot TV through the Admin menu.

4. Randomly, when booting the TV from being hard powered off for long enough for the Smart Menu to shut down, I will be greeted with a spinning circle, and the menu will never display (until soft reboot again)

5. The previously mentioned backlight showing through the bottom left edge of the bezel.

In light of the above, I think I will be returning/exchanging mine to Costco. It's a shame, because the picture is beautiful. I was trying to hold out until they maybe get a higher end Brand/model (with at least the same features) in the stores to upgrade to, but I don't want to forget about it, and pass the 90 day return window.
Vizio's are cheap for a reason, they're cheaply made with cheap parts. Maybe you should just return it for a refund, forget about limiting yourself to what Costco sells, and follow to this advice.

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Originally Posted by fatuglyguy View Post
I know you already got the Vizio, but my advice would have been to stretch your budget and get the 49" Sony X900F. Full-array local dimming, the only ~50" option with a native 120Hz refresh rate, superior video processing, plus Sony's excellent X-Motion Clarity if you're accustomed to the motion performance of a plasma.
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post #33 of 68 Old 10-20-2019, 03:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Vizio's are cheap for a reason, they're cheaply made with cheap parts. Maybe you should just return it for a refund, forget about limiting yourself to what Costco sells, and follow to this advice.
Costco is just a go-to because of the ease of return, and warranty period. I'd like to think a mid-tier Sony would have quality control to the point it wouldn't need to be returned. But buying from stores like Best Buy has turned into a horror story for at least a few youtubers after several attempts at getting a defect-free TV.
I have no doubt that an X900F is an awesome TV. I've always had good luck with Sony. But at 3x the price it only just barely surpasses the Vizio's feature set. I haven't really seen any issues with smooth motion, as most of what i watch isn't Native 24p. Based on that, I'm not even sure if I would benefit very much from a true 120hz panel. Other than 480p, (which will look somewhat soft and flat on basically any TV), Upconversion looks excellent on anything 720p and above.

If I was going to bump my price point up to $1k+, I'd probably find a way to make the space for an entry level 55" OLED for $200 more. I really do appreciate your suggestion, though. I will go take a look at an x900f in person before I make a final decision.
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post #34 of 68 Old 10-21-2019, 04:42 PM
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I don't know about the Vizio one, but I wouldn't recommend the Samsung Q60r honestly.... my sister bought one this weekend and for the price this looks extremely disappointing so far .... it makes me wonder more and more about rtings accuracy because they claimed it's the best 43 inch TV on the market...

I doubt it because it has some disturbing flows: for a qled the blacks don't look that impressive, there is noticeable flashlightning in the top right and left corner, you can't unsee this when watching something with black bars or in a dark room.... the interface is not intuitive at all, with a "smart remote" that is not pleasant to use... and most of all, hdmi detection / video game handling looks horrendous, I couldn't even make my Switch console work properly on it, while on an older, cheaper Samsung TV it was instant.

I myself am looking for a new 43' TV but I bet I won't choose the Q60R ... or maybe any Samsung TV actually. The NU7100/RU7100 look like some solid choices but I may just go back to good old LG... I mean even the one I currently have almost seems to have a more satisfying picture than the Q60R that's twice the price.
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post #35 of 68 Old 10-21-2019, 05:53 PM - Thread Starter
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I don't know about the Vizio one, but I wouldn't recommend the Samsung Q60r honestly.... my sister bought one this weekend and for the price this looks extremely disappointing so far .... it makes me wonder more and more about rtings accuracy because they claimed it's the best 43 inch TV on the market...

I doubt it because it has some disturbing flows: for a qled the blacks don't look that impressive, there is noticeable flashlightning in the top right and left corner, you can't unsee this when watching something with black bars or in a dark room.... the interface is not intuitive at all, with a "smart remote" that is not pleasant to use... and most of all, hdmi detection / video game handling looks horrendous, I couldn't even make my Switch console work properly on it, while on an older, cheaper Samsung TV it was instant.

I myself am looking for a new 43' TV but I bet I won't choose the Q60R ... or maybe any Samsung TV actually. The NU7100/RU7100 look like some solid choices but I may just go back to good old LG... I mean even the one I currently have almost seems to have a more satisfying picture than the Q60R that's twice the price.
I actually got an interesting comment on that subject from the owner in their forums. Apparently they only reviewed the 55" Q60. The most notable differences between it and the 43" is that the smaller model does NOT have a 120hz panel, or FreeSync. Those were the only differences they noted in the review, but there could be more. They noted the same thing with the Vizio M507. They rated the 65" M-series TV, which has 90 local dimming zones, while the 50 & 55" only have 16, and the 43" has 12. They also told me the Q60 (in 50") would be a better TV compared to even the 65" Vizio (M658-G1) they reviewed. Also, FWIW, the 65" M-Series they reviewed is the "8" series (M658). The "7" series (M507, etc....) is a totally different model, and they lumped them into the same review. You have to be careful what their actual review models are.

FWIW, The uniformity is actually fairly good on my M507. It does have very slight vertical bands or bars that you can only see with a solid color on the screen. They don't bother me nearly as much as flashlighting would. This is not gradient "banding", more of a "DSE" (Dirty Screen Effect). Their review model appeared to have it to a more severe degree.

Despite LG having overall terrible looking TV's, below their OLED models, Their WebOS is probably one of the best smart menu's. FWIW, the remote on the Vizio is very cheap feeling, like a childs toy, and stunk very badly of cheap Chinese plastic for the first week or so. Upconverting 1080p games can be hit or miss on a 4K TV. I would have thought Samsung would have a better processor. 480p on the Vizio looks very soft, with some noise in the video, but I'm happy enough with anything 720p or above.

With that said, I may follow the last commenter and take a look at the MUCH more expensive Sony X900F (49"). Or, if I could make room for a 55", an OLED would be a no-brainer.

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post #36 of 68 Old 10-21-2019, 06:42 PM
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With that said, I may follow the last commenter and take a look at the MUCH more expensive Sony X900F (49"). Or, if I could make room for a 55", an OLED would be a no-brainer.
Yeah, the Sony X900F is very interesting for me as well, I was hesitating between this and the Samsung Q70R, but my experience with the Q60R has been so lukewarm I'm pretty resilient to buy an entry QLED now.

I've read many comparisons/watch videos and the X900F seems to have amazing picture quality but way more blooming than the Q70R.

Honestly for now I think I'm gonna go with something not that expensive, I'm a bit like you, the dream would be to buy an entry-level OLED but I don't have the money, nor the room to do so at the moment. It could be interesting to wait until next year to buy an OLED at interesting price, since I've heard they're finally going to make OLED in small sizes (below 55")... but yeah, it's hard to wait !

Anyway, if you're coming from an old 720p tv, any mid-level modern 4K TV is gonna blow your mind, don't worry.
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post #37 of 68 Old 10-21-2019, 07:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, the Sony X900F is very interesting for me as well, I was hesitating between this and the Samsung Q70R, but my experience with the Q60R has been so lukewarm I'm pretty resilient to buy an entry QLED now.

I've read many comparisons/watch videos and the X900F seems to have amazing picture quality but way more blooming than the Q70R.

Honestly for now I think I'm gonna go with something not that expensive, I'm a bit like you, the dream would be to buy an entry-level OLED but I don't have the money, nor the room to do so at the moment. It could be interesting to wait until next year to buy an OLED at interesting price, since I've heard they're finally going to make OLED in small sizes (below 55")... but yeah, it's hard to wait !

Anyway, if you're coming from an old 720p tv, any mid-level modern 4K TV is gonna blow your mind, don't worry.
I would have expected better quality control from Samsung in their QLED's. Then again, both of my parent's PN50B450 (50" Plasma) had developed black bars or multiple lines of hot/stuck pixels within 6 months. Turns out those models didn't use Samsung panels, while my 43" had a Samsung panel that is still flawless. I'm assuming Samsung contracts their cheaper QLED's out to the lowest bidder, so we have to take whatever Chinese crap they give us.

I have already been blown away by the clarity of full 4K video. Even 1080p looks noticeably better than 720p. TV on PS Vue, while not terrible, looks noticeably worse, though. Rtings noted that with the Full-Array set to 'High' on the X900F, it does a very good job limiting blooming. I'd be very happy if 3rd party OLED's start coming out in sub-50" sizes. Based on their higher ratings, in general, at rtings.com, all of them should perform better than an LED. I watch alot of watermarked stuff, with permanent logo's in the corner (TruTV, News channels, etc...), so I'd still have to worry about burn-in, though.
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post #38 of 68 Old 10-21-2019, 07:24 PM - Thread Starter
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I also wanted to make a post about the defect with my TV. Let me know if any of you would return yours for this problem. The light is coming through between the edge of the screen and the bezel. It is not noticeable at all straight-on. Only when off-angle from center. It is always white. Never the color of the screen.
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post #39 of 68 Old 10-22-2019, 12:14 AM
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Originally Posted by cam94zee View Post
I also wanted to make a post about the defect with my TV. Let me know if any of you would return yours for this problem. The light is coming through between the edge of the screen and the bezel. It is not noticeable at all straight-on. Only when off-angle from center. It is always white. Never the color of the screen.
Yeah definitely a defect. I also have last years E43-f1 which I've owned over a year now and pretty happy with and nothing like that on that. But noticed major design change in the new M model from the E I own. On the E43-f1 there is like 1/2 inch of plastic all around the border whereas on the new model looks like they tried to get rid of it to make it look more borderless display so if that defect was on the E43-f1 wasn't/isn't noticeable since it'd be hidden by the plastic strip! Anyways, just ordered the new M437-g0 which I'm supposed to get this week so hopefully panel lottery not as bad as some say and I get at least as good a display as my current E43-f1 which I can't really complain about Only reason I'm getting the new one is for the wider and brighter color gamut which is way improved over mine. When I went to check out the demo unit at my Best Buy could definitely tell right away the color popped out right at you! While keeping the awesome dark levels and blacks of my current TV. Reading this review pretty much says over and over there's not much difference between this TV and sets costing thousands more like the Sony, Samsung, OLED, watching real world scenes anyways on the screen. "In both cases it delivered black levels as deep or deeper than any of the other LCD TVs, in combination with superb shadow detail and minimal blooming. I could point to some differences here and there, but they'd be nitpicks, and of course the OLED looked better than any of the LCDs."-CNET review

Anyways, got it from Walmart so if it's not at least as good as my E43-f1 and significantly better easy to return since it's right down the street from where I live

p.s. Here's a pic I just took of my current E43-f1 which I watch in a pretty dark room so I like how the TV seamlessly blends into the background. If I had a strip of light like first 4K TV I owned that you couldn't disable the power on led on the front of the TV, ended up putting black tape over it :lol would drive me nuts! dunno why my pic's upsidedown but you get the pic
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post #40 of 68 Old 10-22-2019, 12:50 AM
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But if you do get a Vizio do yourself a favor and pair it up with either an Apple TV 4K or Firestick 4K so you won't have to deal with the slow annoying smartcast it comes with.
For example here's a pic of final season of games of thrones I took on it don't know if the Dolby Vision on the Apple TV made the dark dragon scenes look better but definitely impressed me!
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post #41 of 68 Old 10-22-2019, 01:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Symphony7 View Post
I don't know about the Vizio one, but I wouldn't recommend the Samsung Q60r honestly.... my sister bought one this weekend and for the price this looks extremely disappointing so far .... it makes me wonder more and more about rtings accuracy because they claimed it's the best 43 inch TV on the market...

I doubt it because it has some disturbing flows: for a qled the blacks don't look that impressive, there is noticeable flashlightning in the top right and left corner, you can't unsee this when watching something with black bars or in a dark room.... the interface is not intuitive at all, with a "smart remote" that is not pleasant to use... and most of all, hdmi detection / video game handling looks horrendous, I couldn't even make my Switch console work properly on it, while on an older, cheaper Samsung TV it was instant.

I myself am looking for a new 43' TV but I bet I won't choose the Q60R ... or maybe any Samsung TV actually. The NU7100/RU7100 look like some solid choices but I may just go back to good old LG... I mean even the one I currently have almost seems to have a more satisfying picture than the Q60R that's twice the price.
After trying 3 popular brands last year, we came back to our good old IPS LG.

Sony, Vizio, TCL all had many uniformity issues to me (which some consider "normal" for today's TVs). Our old IPS has almost no uneven greys when in actual use and no super ugly reflections since it's matte. It's got majority of the interpolation features that are missing in some of the mid-lower mid ranges of today and has good viewing angles on all angles not just sideways. Massive 60 ms input lag even on game mode though.

BTW, I expect 49" X900F to hit roughly $ 700 once the uncommon holiday sales kick in. Maybe from ElectronicExpress or Buydig but goodluck with the warranties or the chance of fighting with CS in case of shipping problems where you'd think that going brickstore would've been worth the premium.

Easy on the Bestbuy returns. They have a shadow banning system that tracks returns and don't be surprised if you get banned for a year if you return too many stuff at a certain period.

Costco and maybe Walmart might be the only safe ones to buy from.
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post #42 of 68 Old 10-24-2019, 03:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah definitely a defect. I also have last years E43-f1 which I've owned over a year now and pretty happy with and nothing like that on that. But noticed major design change in the new M model from the E I own. On the E43-f1 there is like 1/2 inch of plastic all around the border whereas on the new model looks like they tried to get rid of it to make it look more borderless display so if that defect was on the E43-f1 wasn't/isn't noticeable since it'd be hidden by the plastic strip! Anyways, just ordered the new M437-g0 which I'm supposed to get this week so hopefully panel lottery not as bad as some say and I get at least as good a display as my current E43-f1 which I can't really complain about Only reason I'm getting the new one is for the wider and brighter color gamut which is way improved over mine. When I went to check out the demo unit at my Best Buy could definitely tell right away the color popped out right at you! While keeping the awesome dark levels and blacks of my current TV. Reading this review pretty much says over and over there's not much difference between this TV and sets costing thousands more like the Sony, Samsung, OLED, watching real world scenes anyways on the screen. "In both cases it delivered black levels as deep or deeper than any of the other LCD TVs, in combination with superb shadow detail and minimal blooming. I could point to some differences here and there, but they'd be nitpicks, and of course the OLED looked better than any of the LCDs."-CNET review

Anyways, got it from Walmart so if it's not at least as good as my E43-f1 and significantly better easy to return since it's right down the street from where I live

p.s. Here's a pic I just took of my current E43-f1 which I watch in a pretty dark room so I like how the TV seamlessly blends into the background. If I had a strip of light like first 4K TV I owned that you couldn't disable the power on led on the front of the TV, ended up putting black tape over it :lol would drive me nuts! dunno why my pic's upsidedown but you get the pic
I'm thinking my panel itself was maybe supposed to be painted black along the edge, and that's where the light is escaping. Either that or the panel just isn't centered properly in the bezel, leaving a gap. The bezel is much smaller than I was used to with my plasma. It even comes with cardboard over the front of the screen, and a big warning about a thin bezel and not to lift by the screen. Thankfully, the bottom bezel is thicker, and the TV can be moved around on a wall mount from the bottom, and one hand behind the top. The Mxx7 series is definitely good bang-for-the-buck. The picture is beatiful. The difference in sharpness and image quality is instantly apparent, even on 1080p sources (compared to my 720p Plasma), but their firmware could definitely use some work (bugs). Despite having a quad core processor, the built-in smart menu is very clunky, without smooth motion. Some apps, like youtube, are fine once loaded, however. So plan to use a 4k Fire Stick, or Roku Premiere/Streaming Stick+ (4k). Peak brightness (NITS) is an issue on paper, but mine is blindingly bright to me, even on the "Dark Calibrated" setting, with the backlight on the default '50'. I found myself having to drop it down, and in some cases, also drop the brightness.

Walmart is a good close second to Costco, and also has a longer, supposedly "No Questions" return policy. But I try not to shop there, in light of a recent political decision they made. I haven't checked if they have the Sony X900F for comparison.

Flat panels are very good for "blending-in", and yours does a good job of that. The M437 will be thicker because of the full-array lighting, and arguably decent sized speakers on the bottom (there's actually a degree of bass there, and the treble isn't piercing/sibilant like my Samsung Plasma). It should still sit pretty close to the wall.

Well LMK how you do with the panel lottery, and if you like the smaller version of the M-Series. If you want to check for my problem, move to the left or right of the screen in a dark room, with your eyes about even with the screen-side of the bezel.

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post #43 of 68 Old 10-24-2019, 04:10 PM - Thread Starter
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But if you do get a Vizio do yourself a favor and pair it up with either an Apple TV 4K or Firestick 4K so you won't have to deal with the slow annoying smartcast it comes with.
For example here's a pic of final season of games of thrones I took on it don't know if the Dolby Vision on the Apple TV made the dark dragon scenes look better but definitely impressed me!
I already have a Roku Premiere (older 4K model with only 2.4Ghz Wi-Fi), and a 4K Fire Stick. I will still use the built-in Smartcast for Youtube, as it properly displays 4K without having to enable "Full UHD" mode in the input settings, unlike the 4K Fire Stick on Auto.
I haven't watched many movies in HDR/Dolby Vision, but the few I have had a very clear difference in highlights/shadows. I will be picking up the 4K John Wick Trilogy to see if it amazes me. I upgraded my Xbox One (classic) to a Xbox One S, just so I could watch 4K BluRay. It was actually cheaper than buying a decent dedicated player. Picked one up for $185 on eBay.
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post #44 of 68 Old 10-24-2019, 04:23 PM - Thread Starter
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After trying 3 popular brands last year, we came back to our good old IPS LG.

Sony, Vizio, TCL all had many uniformity issues to me (which some consider "normal" for today's TVs). Our old IPS has almost no uneven greys when in actual use and no super ugly reflections since it's matte. It's got majority of the interpolation features that are missing in some of the mid-lower mid ranges of today and has good viewing angles on all angles not just sideways. Massive 60 ms input lag even on game mode though.

BTW, I expect 49" X900F to hit roughly $ 700 once the uncommon holiday sales kick in. Maybe from ElectronicExpress or Buydig but goodluck with the warranties or the chance of fighting with CS in case of shipping problems where you'd think that going brickstore would've been worth the premium.

Easy on the Bestbuy returns. They have a shadow banning system that tracks returns and don't be surprised if you get banned for a year if you return too many stuff at a certain period.

Costco and maybe Walmart might be the only safe ones to buy from.
The major downside to IPS panels, in general, is that they usually have abysmal blacks, crushing them to grey. It is instantly noticeable to me, next to the competition on the shelf. It think uniformity has always been an issue, even back on standard LCD backlit TV's. Every one I was ever able to try in a dark room, had some sort of black/grey cloudiness. You would think with full array, or even edge lighting on an LED, it would be easier to control.

I have 90 days to return this one to Costco, so I'll probably milk it as long as I can. For all I know, Costco will get new models in their stores before then. Maybe even the proposed smaller sized third-party OLED's.

FWIW, I would never buy a local TV From best buy, or online from a smaller site without a well-recognized return policy. I've even had problems returning multiple defective portable-electronics with Best Buy. I might push myself to Buy from Amazon if the price were discounted enough.
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post #45 of 68 Old 10-25-2019, 01:41 PM
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I'm thinking my panel itself was maybe supposed to be painted black along the edge, and that's where the light is escaping. Either that or the panel just isn't centered properly in the bezel, leaving a gap. The bezel is much smaller than I was used to with my plasma. It even comes with cardboard over the front of the screen, and a big warning about a thin bezel and not to lift by the screen. Thankfully, the bottom bezel is thicker, and the TV can be moved around on a wall mount from the bottom, and one hand behind the top. The Mxx7 series is definitely good bang-for-the-buck. The picture is beatiful. The difference in sharpness and image quality is instantly apparent, even on 1080p sources (compared to my 720p Plasma), but their firmware could definitely use some work (bugs). Despite having a quad core processor, the built-in smart menu is very clunky, without smooth motion. Some apps, like youtube, are fine once loaded, however. So plan to use a 4k Fire Stick, or Roku Premiere/Streaming Stick+ (4k). Peak brightness (NITS) is an issue on paper, but mine is blindingly bright to me, even on the "Dark Calibrated" setting, with the backlight on the default '50'. I found myself having to drop it down, and in some cases, also drop the brightness.

Walmart is a good close second to Costco, and also has a longer, supposedly "No Questions" return policy. But I try not to shop there, in light of a recent political decision they made. I haven't checked if they have the Sony X900F for comparison.

Flat panels are very good for "blending-in", and yours does a good job of that. The M437 will be thicker because of the full-array lighting, and arguably decent sized speakers on the bottom (there's actually a degree of bass there, and the treble isn't piercing/sibilant like my Samsung Plasma). It should still sit pretty close to the wall.

Well LMK how you do with the panel lottery, and if you like the smaller version of the M-Series. If you want to check for my problem, move to the left or right of the screen in a dark room, with your eyes about even with the screen-side of the bezel.
Well just been playing around with the VIZIO 43" Class M-Series Quantum 4K Ultra HD (2160p) HDR Smart TV (M437-G0) (2019 Model) which arrived yesterday undamaged and new from Walmart and pretty happy so far.
Here's a quick picture I took when hooked up to my PC and login window on Windows 10. Couldn't see any of the bleed out the edge or edges you mentioned and spend quite a bit of time looking at the corners and from different angles. The only light bleed at the bottom is actually the lights from my keyboard on the desk in the pic
Anyways, gonna do some more testing today before hooking up to my Apple TV and fire stick but quick things I noticed from my older 43" 2018 E TV is they moved some buttons on remote which is annoying cuz was trying to change pic modes button moved all the way to bottom with. The stand or feet seem way better quality since old TV they were just cheap plastic and they used metal this time. TV actually feels lighter than my 2018 which is pretty crazy since it was already pretty light under 20lbs! Builit-in wi-fi is still pretty bad they must use cheapest chipset for the AC wifi cuz TV is right by router and still pretty slow but I do have pretty slow ISP max 11mbps. That's why I use ATV/firestick instead seem way faster on wireless. SmartTV interface is still noticeably slow and annoying especially if you ever use an AppleTV or Firesick so dunno how much longer I can test without hooking one up :lol
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post #46 of 68 Old 10-25-2019, 04:15 PM
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Well just been playing around with the VIZIO 43" Class M-Series Quantum 4K Ultra HD (2160p) HDR Smart TV (M437-G0) (2019 Model) which arrived yesterday undamaged and new from Walmart and pretty happy so far.
Here's a quick picture I took when hooked up to my PC and login window on Windows 10. Couldn't see any of the bleed out the edge or edges you mentioned and spend quite a bit of time looking at the corners and from different angles. The only light bleed at the bottom is actually the lights from my keyboard on the desk in the pic
Anyways, gonna do some more testing today before hooking up to my Apple TV and fire stick but quick things I noticed from my older 43" 2018 E TV is they moved some buttons on remote which is annoying cuz was trying to change pic modes button moved all the way to bottom with. The stand or feet seem way better quality since old TV they were just cheap plastic and they used metal this time. TV actually feels lighter than my 2018 which is pretty crazy since it was already pretty light under 20lbs! Builit-in wi-fi is still pretty bad they must use cheapest chipset for the AC wifi cuz TV is right by router and still pretty slow but I do have pretty slow ISP max 11mbps. That's why I use ATV/firestick instead seem way faster on wireless. SmartTV interface is still noticeably slow and annoying especially if you ever use an AppleTV or Firesick so dunno how much longer I can test without hooking one up :lol
Biggest annoyance from my old Vizio is still there and looks like I'll actually have to buy a separate Chromcast ultra since casting anything to the TV is still limited to 720p max which is ridiculous since I have no problem casting up to max 4K resolution using AppleTV via airplay. Reason this is a big deal to me is that I use an iPhone and Android devices to shoot pics and video when I'm out an about and when I get home I like to be able to cast right away to big 4K TV to see what shots are out of focus or worth keeping. Works fine with iPhone and airplay since get full res and easy to spot problems with pic whereas casting via the built-in Chromecast since it's limited to 720p end up seeing pics with a huge black box around them since they aren't using full quality
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post #47 of 68 Old 10-26-2019, 07:10 PM
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Biggest annoyance from my old Vizio is still there and looks like I'll actually have to buy a separate Chromcast ultra since casting anything to the TV is still limited to 720p max which is ridiculous since I have no problem casting up to max 4K resolution using AppleTV via airplay. Reason this is a big deal to me is that I use an iPhone and Android devices to shoot pics and video when I'm out an about and when I get home I like to be able to cast right away to big 4K TV to see what shots are out of focus or worth keeping. Works fine with iPhone and airplay since get full res and easy to spot problems with pic whereas casting via the built-in Chromecast since it's limited to 720p end up seeing pics with a huge black box around them since they aren't using full quality
Finally put the new 43 M437-G0 next to my old 43" and increases color gamut first thing I noticed. It's like switching the calibrated picture setting to vivid but without unnatural look and highlights blown out. I''ll post some pics when I get a chance. Guess that's why the new TV uses $25/month of electricity a month according to the energy use sticker they stick on box compared to just $15 of old TV.
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post #48 of 68 Old 10-27-2019, 05:25 PM
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I also wanted to make a post about the defect with my TV. Let me know if any of you would return yours for this problem. The light is coming through between the edge of the screen and the bezel. It is not noticeable at all straight-on. Only when off-angle from center. It is always white. Never the color of the screen.
Hi Cam... got my TV delivered more than a week ago, but didn't set it up until now. My biggest complaint do far is the remote is impossible to see in the dark. I have a similar "defect" in the same spot you have... but it appears to be ~40% smaller. Only noticeable when you stand close at a sharp angle. Mine isn't white, it's the color of the screen. I think you're correct that the painted on (or however it's correctly described) black border on the screen doesn't extend far enough to run under the slim bezel on the left side.

I'm happy to say it JUST barely fit on my articulating mount/arm... so seems like a good move buying a 50 cheaper than the 43.

It did a bunch of firmware updates when i first turned it on, and appears to have air-play (haven't tested yet). I skipped/didn't agree to T&C so not running their streaming UI... as I'm very comfortable with FireTV as my home screen and switching to TiVo or Blu-ray from there as needed. Not sure if it's related, but my 4K stick decided to update software (twice) shortly after I got up and running. The white screen (with orange firetv logo) seemed cloudy, so likely a panel uniformity issue. It doesn't appear o be anything I'd notice during viewing, and seems a fine compromise for a 50 inch DolbyVision YV for $339.

I'll need more time using to gather a better assessment (e.g. I noticed FireTV home screen show vivid colors at one point, and then more muted later)... so I'm sure there's some setting I have to work out.
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post #49 of 68 Old 11-17-2019, 09:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi Cam... got my TV delivered more than a week ago, but didn't set it up until now. My biggest complaint do far is the remote is impossible to see in the dark. I have a similar "defect" in the same spot you have... but it appears to be ~40% smaller. Only noticeable when you stand close at a sharp angle. Mine isn't white, it's the color of the screen. I think you're correct that the painted on (or however it's correctly described) black border on the screen doesn't extend far enough to run under the slim bezel on the left side.

I'm happy to say it JUST barely fit on my articulating mount/arm... so seems like a good move buying a 50 cheaper than the 43.

It did a bunch of firmware updates when i first turned it on, and appears to have air-play (haven't tested yet). I skipped/didn't agree to T&C so not running their streaming UI... as I'm very comfortable with FireTV as my home screen and switching to TiVo or Blu-ray from there as needed. Not sure if it's related, but my 4K stick decided to update software (twice) shortly after I got up and running. The white screen (with orange firetv logo) seemed cloudy, so likely a panel uniformity issue. It doesn't appear o be anything I'd notice during viewing, and seems a fine compromise for a 50 inch DolbyVision YV for $339.

I'll need more time using to gather a better assessment (e.g. I noticed FireTV home screen show vivid colors at one point, and then more muted later)... so I'm sure there's some setting I have to work out.
Thank you for the update. If yours has the same issue, I might just chalk it up to a design "feature" rather than a defect, and not exchange it. Maybe I'll visit my local best buy (who had 2 of them on display, with one being open-box), and see if I can duplicate it on those.

The controller is really not very good, IMO. It just feels like cheap china plastic. I had a harmony 650 remote prior to this TV that worked really well for any function I could imagine (even my window A/C). It eventually failed after being dropped several times, and I haven't replaced it. You might want to look into a better all-in-one remote.

Search youtube for "tv test colors grey", or something similar. Uniformity can be seen best with a solid partial grey color. FWIW, I haven't noticed any uniformity issues in actual video, or games. I haven't done done any critical testing yet, though.

Mine had weird bugs from time to time, but after the final firmware update about 2 weeks ago, they all magically disappeared.
On your FireTV, it's best to leave it at a fixed 2160p, rather than auto, and/or enable "Full UHD Color" In the input settings for the FireTV input. Mine had trouble reliably switching to 4K until I changed that. My Roku Premiere didn't even realize I had an HDR capable TV until I enabled it on that input. You may want to also play with the "active full array" level in the "More Picture" Menu. Mine did alot of manipulation of brightness when set any higher than low. That may be what you are seeing. I prefer a darker picture, so my settings are very conservative (Calibrated Dark, and lower backlight setting). With HDR, I run a bit brighter, for contrast reasons. Keep in mind you have separate picture settings for HDR, and non-HDR on each input. You can only change the HDR settings while the HDR source is active.

But anyway, I've been going back and forth as to whether I am going to outright return this TV and get something better. I had decided on the X900F, then I started hearing multiple reviews about it crushing highlights in HDR, and that the older X900E was actually better. Heard Rave reviews about the Hisense H9F, then realized it has the same problem. The Vizio really seems like a good compromise, and it has good enough audio (with surround sound off) that a soundbar isn't even needed. The Rtings review is actually of the Mxx8 series. PCMag did a review of the Mxx7 series, and gave it a REALLY terrible contrast ratio, among other things. Even so, I've been impressed with HDR content. LMK if you'd like the link.
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post #50 of 68 Old 11-18-2019, 06:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Finally put the new 43 M437-G0 next to my old 43" and increases color gamut first thing I noticed. It's like switching the calibrated picture setting to vivid but without unnatural look and highlights blown out. I''ll post some pics when I get a chance. Guess that's why the new TV uses $25/month of electricity a month according to the energy use sticker they stick on box compared to just $15 of old TV.
The Full Array lighting is probably the reason for the higher consumption. But also just FYI, the Energy Star sticker is the YEARLY power consumption, rather than monthly. For comparison, my M507 is rated at $29/yr.
Your color observation has something to back it up. In the Rtings Video review for the M Series Quantum, they said that the series has nearly the highest color accuracy of any TV they've EVER tested. That's gotta make you feel special. I definitely haven't noticed any questionable colors with my TV set to "Calibrated Dark".
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post #51 of 68 Old 11-19-2019, 08:37 PM - Thread Starter
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It appears that the Samsung 49" Q70R is now on sale ($300 off) for $799 virtually everywhere for "special holiday pricing". I'm very tempted to return my Vizio to costco and upgrade. The only downside I can find is that it doesn't support Dolby Vision, only HDR10, Samsung's HDR10+, and HLG. Also that it only supports HDMI 2.0b, so not exactly future-proof. I haven't decided if that's a dealbreaker yet. In theory, Dolby Vision is MUCH better than HDR10, as the HDR metadata can be changed scene-by-scene, rather than one setting for the entire movie.
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post #52 of 68 Old 11-21-2019, 02:11 AM
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The Full Array lighting is probably the reason for the higher consumption. But also just FYI, the Energy Star sticker is the YEARLY power consumption, rather than monthly. For comparison, my M507 is rated at $29/yr.
Your color observation has something to back it up. In the Rtings Video review for the M Series Quantum, they said that the series has nearly the highest color accuracy of any TV they've EVER tested. That's gotta make you feel special. I definitely haven't noticed any questionable colors with my TV set to "Calibrated Dark".
Yeah it definitely has wider color gamut which is easy to see on the first image on this page. On my old 2018 Vizio E cannot see the logo on the red background. Can easily see on new m437 it looks like a compass if you can't see it.
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post #53 of 68 Old 11-23-2019, 02:56 PM
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Yeah it definitely has wider color gamut which is easy to see on the first image on this page. On my old 2018 Vizio E cannot see the logo on the red background. Can easily see on new m437 it looks like a compass if you can't see it.
Did some more testing today using OTA on both my 43" side-by-side and more detail is notable in large red area. On old TV a read sweater or shirt was just giant red blob sometimes and with new TV extra details like folds visible. Guessing this is again due to wider gamut since both in same picture mode.
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post #54 of 68 Old 12-01-2019, 06:04 PM
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Been lurking in this thread for a few wks, and now that B&H has the M437-G0 for $330, I'm on the fence. There have been several reports in the comments at rtings that both the Vizio M437 and the 43" class Samsung Q60 are IPS panels though--is this universally true, or is there a lottery? Based on this thread, it sounds like at least the Vizio doesn't always come with an IPS display, else you'd all be complaining about that. But yeah, sure seems like the 43" class has been all-but abandoned in terms of the higher-end I do wonder though if I'm nitpicking too much. Current set is an M422i-B1 (so 2014 Vizio M) that I still like a lot, except for the fact that it doesn't have a native 50Hz mode (I'm not actually sure how to find this out, but with increasing number of European shows I'm watching it's becoming an issue) but display tech has advanced a fair bit in the meantime, so I wonder if I'd be happy with whatever midrange 43" there are out there.

That said, in the meantime...local BB had one 55" H9F left @$550 and I jumped on it based on the rtings review, but it really is far too big (see below). It would have to be wall-mounted and even then may make everything else look p awkward. Current setup pictured, fwiw, from typical viewing position ~6ft away. The middle of the TV is about 30 inches away from the wall right now, so 55...might be doable. Sorry if this amounts to hijacking the thread, the post sort of evolved over the last few mins of being written
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post #55 of 68 Old 12-04-2019, 05:02 PM
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Been lurking in this thread for a few wks, and now that B&H has the M437-G0 for $330, I'm on the fence. There have been several reports in the comments at rtings that both the Vizio M437 and the 43" class Samsung Q60 are IPS panels though--is this universally true, or is there a lottery? Based on this thread, it sounds like at least the Vizio doesn't always come with an IPS display, else you'd all be complaining about that. But yeah, sure seems like the 43" class has been all-but abandoned in terms of the higher-end I do wonder though if I'm nitpicking too much. Current set is an M422i-B1 (so 2014 Vizio M) that I still like a lot, except for the fact that it doesn't have a native 50Hz mode (I'm not actually sure how to find this out, but with increasing number of European shows I'm watching it's becoming an issue) but display tech has advanced a fair bit in the meantime, so I wonder if I'd be happy with whatever midrange 43" there are out there.

That said, in the meantime...local BB had one 55" H9F left @$550 and I jumped on it based on the rtings review, but it really is far too big (see below). It would have to be wall-mounted and even then may make everything else look p awkward. Current setup pictured, fwiw, from typical viewing position ~6ft away. The middle of the TV is about 30 inches away from the wall right now, so 55...might be doable. Sorry if this amounts to hijacking the thread, the post sort of evolved over the last few mins of being written
Well been doing some more testing using OTA stuff since have both TV's still and tbh still not sure if I got IPS panel since it can achieve pure blacks in parts of the panel as you can see in these pics I took for example look at center of Sauron eye and blacks on car black in hair of girls, etc... Only in pitch black room is glow around edges noticeable and only then is the pure black and panel uniformity of my older 2018 Vizio on left really noticeable. Don't know if I got lucky with my 2018 Vizio because as you can see it pic it's as black as you can get and so uniform TV disappears into background. Doesn't happen on new TV but that's just because of slight glow around edges. That's why I'm gonna return and try for better panel. Even though I appreciate the pure black on old TV like the better color and pop for example almost glowing blue eyes for example better on new TV. Images on old TV appear dull and faded in comparison as you can see in pics here https://postimg.cc/gallery/2jnxscnru/
but yeah looks like it's back up to $400 at B&H and OOS so yeah think majority of people will be happy since all they'll be seeing is the colorful, vibrant, bright pics like I posted above and not be focusing on pure black screens like the Airplay screen I had to use to compare the blacks of my TV's LOL.

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post #56 of 68 Old 12-05-2019, 11:43 AM
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Just to throw a couple things out there:

-I bought TCL 43S525 (5-series) in the BF sales in US, at $250 USD. It wasn't a stellar price but decent and we don't get the 5-series here in Canada so I went with it after quite a time researching 43-50" sets which it seems have a very limited set of choices, particularly on the 43" end of the spectrum. Unfortunately I just haven't had the time to even unbox and use it so I can't really comment on how it is so far. I don't have huge expectations for a set in this class and price range but I do have some XBRs in the house (two 1080p and one 4K) so once I do get to use it I do have some reference what looks pretty good, to say how the TCL does. The 5-series is not as high-end as some of the ones being discussed but it's not overpriced and not a "cheap TV" either. Seems to be in the sweet spot, TBH.

-The Samsungs and Sonys in this category (particularly the Sonys!) are way over priced. Every TV I own (other than this new purchase) is a Sony and I can't even wrap my head around how Sony really couldn't care less to compete in the segment with just how many TVs must sell in the lower pricing categories? 43X800G is hilariously priced, I think it was $400 in BF sales...for a TV is flat out mediocre at best. X900G doesn't even come in a 49" size, X900F does but as mentioned already the price is in the sky. Samsung RU7100 is meh and overpriced, the Q60R is nice but even higher priced and doesn't even have LD (for that you need to go to the Q70R and I didn't even bother looking at the price on one of those).

-LG the other "first tier" brand...we'll they're basically IPS and RGBW-city on their lower-end and lower-size offerings. No thanks.


-The problem with "high-end" or maybe more importantly high priced 43-50" sets is, who really wants to pay that much money for what is probably a 3rd or 4th TV in the house? I mean let's face it, a lot of people buying a set of this size are buying it for their bedroom, game room, kids' room, kitchen, etc., not as their main TV where they probably already have a 60"+ set. That's what I figured anyway. I had thought about an M-series but thought, "do I really need to spend that much?"

-The other one I'd throw out there (apart from the Vizio M) surprisingly has not been mentioned here--50" Hisense H8F. On paper TV seems quite good and was going for $350 US in BF sale but I think had actually been cheaper ($330) earlier in the year according to a google search. I was very tempted to get an OB one at Best Lie as it was $265 but it turned out it wasn't actually an OB set it was a display model without the stand and remote as well, so I opted not to get it. Otherwise I think that would have been a fantastic deal if it were complete and otherwise new. Again this is one we don't get up here in Canada. We do get the H8F but only in 55"+ sizes, we don't get the 50".

Anyway short of it, if you only want a 43", try out the TCL 5-series; if 50" is doable check out the H8F as well.
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post #57 of 68 Old 12-06-2019, 09:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Just to throw a couple things out there:

-I bought TCL 43S525 (5-series) in the BF sales in US, at $250 USD. It wasn't a stellar price but decent and we don't get the 5-series here in Canada so I went with it after quite a time researching 43-50" sets which it seems have a very limited set of choices, particularly on the 43" end of the spectrum. Unfortunately I just haven't had the time to even unbox and use it so I can't really comment on how it is so far. I don't have huge expectations for a set in this class and price range but I do have some XBRs in the house (two 1080p and one 4K) so once I do get to use it I do have some reference what looks pretty good, to say how the TCL does. The 5-series is not as high-end as some of the ones being discussed but it's not overpriced and not a "cheap TV" either. Seems to be in the sweet spot, TBH.

-The Samsungs and Sonys in this category (particularly the Sonys!) are way over priced. Every TV I own (other than this new purchase) is a Sony and I can't even wrap my head around how Sony really couldn't care less to compete in the segment with just how many TVs must sell in the lower pricing categories? 43X800G is hilariously priced, I think it was $400 in BF sales...for a TV is flat out mediocre at best. X900G doesn't even come in a 49" size, X900F does but as mentioned already the price is in the sky. Samsung RU7100 is meh and overpriced, the Q60R is nice but even higher priced and doesn't even have LD (for that you need to go to the Q70R and I didn't even bother looking at the price on one of those).

-LG the other "first tier" brand...we'll they're basically IPS and RGBW-city on their lower-end and lower-size offerings. No thanks.


-The problem with "high-end" or maybe more importantly high priced 43-50" sets is, who really wants to pay that much money for what is probably a 3rd or 4th TV in the house? I mean let's face it, a lot of people buying a set of this size are buying it for their bedroom, game room, kids' room, kitchen, etc., not as their main TV where they probably already have a 60"+ set. That's what I figured anyway. I had thought about an M-series but thought, "do I really need to spend that much?"

-The other one I'd throw out there (apart from the Vizio M) surprisingly has not been mentioned here--50" Hisense H8F. On paper TV seems quite good and was going for $350 US in BF sale but I think had actually been cheaper ($330) earlier in the year according to a google search. I was very tempted to get an OB one at Best Lie as it was $265 but it turned out it wasn't actually an OB set it was a display model without the stand and remote as well, so I opted not to get it. Otherwise I think that would have been a fantastic deal if it were complete and otherwise new. Again this is one we don't get up here in Canada. We do get the H8F but only in 55"+ sizes, we don't get the 50".

Anyway short of it, if you only want a 43", try out the TCL 5-series; if 50" is doable check out the H8F as well.
FWIW, I actually bought a 55H8F for my parents to upgrade one of their 50" Samsung Plasma's that had developed black bars and multicolored lines all over the screen. The Android OS is very buggy, and I had lip-sync issues with a few of the built-in apps. I had to actually adjust the lip-sync setting in the menu to make up for it, and the setting varies on the apps that have the problem. Most apps have a noticeably better picture quality on a 4K Roku. Broadcast TV (PS Vue, Philo, FuboTV, Youtube TV etc...) looks MUCH worse than on my Vizio, with pale colors, and muted contrast. Some shows have a "doubling" effect on the edges of faces, etc... Maybe the default sharpness is too high or something, but I haven't experimented much. Other than a slightly softer image, my Vizio looks night-and-day better.

With that said, anything high-bitrate 1080p or better (Blu-Ray/4k UHD, Prime Video, Netflix, etc...) looks absolutely amazing with crystal sharpness and clarity. I just wish I could get streaming TV to look better on it, as that's what my parent's watch most. Currently PS Vue, but will be Youtube TV after Vue is discontinued.

Also, I looked at an LG UM6900 at Wal-Mart. It was the only TV there where you could see the actual pixels, or what appeared to be pixels, even from a moderate distance. It added a physical grain to the image that just didn't look good. Maybe it's the more "chevron" shape of the pixels? If these also have blooming and light bleed to the degree that the reviews say, it's a lose-lose situation. I've heard LG purposely makes their LCD's look terrible to push OLED sales.

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post #58 of 68 Old 12-06-2019, 09:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by daviangel View Post
Well been doing some more testing using OTA stuff since have both TV's still and tbh still not sure if I got IPS panel since it can achieve pure blacks in parts of the panel as you can see in these pics I took for example look at center of Sauron eye and blacks on car black in hair of girls, etc... Only in pitch black room is glow around edges noticeable and only then is the pure black and panel uniformity of my older 2018 Vizio on left really noticeable. Don't know if I got lucky with my 2018 Vizio because as you can see it pic it's as black as you can get and so uniform TV disappears into background. Doesn't happen on new TV but that's just because of slight glow around edges. That's why I'm gonna return and try for better panel. Even though I appreciate the pure black on old TV like the better color and pop for example almost glowing blue eyes for example better on new TV. Images on old TV appear dull and faded in comparison as you can see in pics here https://postimg.cc/gallery/2jnxscnru/
but yeah looks like it's back up to $400 at B&H and OOS so yeah think majority of people will be happy since all they'll be seeing is the colorful, vibrant, bright pics like I posted above and not be focusing on pure black screens like the Airplay screen I had to use to compare the blacks of my TV's LOL.
My M507 has what I would call very good blacks. In a very dark room, the panel does have a very dim blue-black glow to it, and I usually watch at lower backlight settings. But black in movies is usually very black. Sometimes I can definitely see the lack of enough dimming zones brightening too much of the screen, but for the most part everything looks good. It does do something weird in things like Fire Stick/Roku/Game console menu's, though. Where a large area of the screen opposite where the backlight gets brighter actually goes darker than the rest of the screen. Maybe this is to enhance contrast, but the Hisense H8F my parents have does not do this.
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post #59 of 68 Old 12-07-2019, 04:51 AM
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Originally Posted by cam94zee View Post
My M507 has what I would call very good blacks. In a very dark room, the panel does have a very dim blue-black glow to it, and I usually watch at lower backlight settings. But black in movies is usually very black. Sometimes I can definitely see the lack of enough dimming zones brightening too much of the screen, but for the most part everything looks good. It does do something weird in things like Fire Stick/Roku/Game console menu's, though. Where a large area of the screen opposite where the backlight gets brighter actually goes darker than the rest of the screen. Maybe this is to enhance contrast, but the Hisense H8F my parents have does not do this.
Well looks like rtings finally reviewed this M7 Series TV and pretty much explains what I"m seeing in the comparison pics I posted with my 2018 E series. Seems the M7 has way worse black uniformity only 8.2 compared to the 9.3 of the 2018 E series so not going to get the OLED looking pitch blacks of my older TV Seems I would need to upgrade to the M8 series to get the better blacks like my E but smallest it starts at is 55" which can't won't do Still that's better black uniformity than TCL or LG at 43" size and still less than 1% the value at which it's even noticeable to most people. Like I said when I posted the comparison pics I took hard to notice with naked eye unless you looking for it on totally dark background in totally dark room. https://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/pict...-flashlighting

https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/vi...s-quantum-2019
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post #60 of 68 Old 12-09-2019, 11:18 PM
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Does the Vizio M437-G0 have a “Film Mode” setting to let you remove 24p judder like the bigger Vizio M’s have?

Thanks!
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