TCL 8 Series Roku TV (2019 Model - 65" & 75") *Owner's Thread*(No Price Talk) - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 141 Old 11-26-2019, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Scottt1174 View Post
Rtings isn't the Bible...lol
They are pretty darn accurate. You are already dismissing something you haven't even seen yet. Talk about being biased.
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post #62 of 141 Old 11-26-2019, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Scottt1174 View Post
I bet they don't have the latest firmware update and they say that the tv sucks and they give it a low rating like they did to the R625 saying it's less or maybe equal to the R617. They are wrong and they also have a bias against TCL.
Sure, because you know everything.
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post #63 of 141 Old 11-27-2019, 10:40 AM
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I think it's safe to say this television was not ready for prime time. I tried to give it as much chance as possible but they simply missed the mark. Hopefully their next offering is better and hopefully they resolve the issues for the early adopters.
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post #64 of 141 Old 11-27-2019, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottt1174 View Post
I bet they don't have the latest firmware update and they say that the tv sucks and they give it a low rating like they did to the R625 saying it's less or maybe equal to the R617. They are wrong and they also have a bias against TCL.
At least Rtings will go back after a firmware update and retest and revise their ratings. So, if TCL fixes their issues, they will update their ratings. If you like what they test for then you will like their reviews, but like any other reviewer they only test what they test for and a TV will have strengths and weaknesses that do not show up in the review.
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post #65 of 141 Old 11-27-2019, 12:38 PM
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At least Rtings will go back after a firmware update and retest and revise their ratings. So, if TCL fixes their issues, they will update their ratings. If you like what they test for then you will like their reviews, but like any other reviewer they only test what they test for and a TV will have strengths and weaknesses that do not show up in the review.

Definitely good that they do this to give opportunity to fix things. But clearly this product wasn't ready, and I hope they do fix things.
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post #66 of 141 Old 11-28-2019, 08:56 AM
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post #67 of 141 Old 11-28-2019, 11:47 AM
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Their pre-calibration is the same what I saw on mine. Everything is so much better once you do white balance.
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post #68 of 141 Old 11-28-2019, 12:34 PM
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Rtngs used Firmware 9.1.2 build 6463-88 but they are still showing a problem with the EOTF curve. Is this the most recent firmware version available?

HDTV test and Wirecutter both reported that EOTF is fixed in a newer firmware.
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post #69 of 141 Old 11-28-2019, 12:51 PM
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Sweet Jesus, did you see the contrast ratio in local dimming


39,812!


Am I reading that right?
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post #70 of 141 Old 11-28-2019, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by NuSoardGraphite View Post
Sweet Jesus, did you see the contrast ratio in local dimming


39,812!


Am I reading that right?
Wonder if that number will change if/when they fix the black crush
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post #71 of 141 Old 11-28-2019, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NuSoardGraphite View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by duvy56 View Post

Sweet Jesus, did you see the contrast ratio in local dimming [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/eek.gif[/IMG]


39,812!


Am I reading that right?
Wow, very impressive number! When the issues are fixed and the zone count goes this tech will be a force to be reckoned with.
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post #72 of 141 Old 11-28-2019, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by KD8118 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by NuSoardGraphite View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by duvy56 View Post

Sweet Jesus, did you see the contrast ratio in local dimming [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/eek.gif[/IMG]


39,812!


Am I reading that right?
Wow, very impressive number! When the issues are fixed and the zone count goes this tech will be a force to be reckoned with.
That contrast ratio is impressive on paper, but sadly it is unable to get processed properly and is unable to fulfill its duty. I think we all know what purpose contrast serves in image processing. Sadly TCL 8 series is unable to utilize it. It is just like limiting speed of a 1000HP car to 100mph.

I seriously doubt the issue will be resolved through software updates.
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post #73 of 141 Old 11-28-2019, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KING DRANZER View Post
That contrast ratio is impressive on paper, but sadly it is unable to get processed properly and is unable to fulfill its duty. I think we all know what purpose contrast serves in image processing. Sadly TCL 8 series is unable to utilize it. It is just like limiting speed of a 1000HP car to 100mph.

I seriously doubt the issue will be resolved through software updates.

Likely, instead of maxing out the black level, one can calibrate the 8 series to where it reaches a very deep black level and contrast (maybe 15000:1 or 20000:1) but it still maintains its shadow detail. Which means it won't come near OLED but probably compete with or even beat something like the Samsung Q90 and Sony Z9D.


Maybe instead of having the backlight at maximum setting, place it on the middle setting. That will raise the black level and possibly prevent the crushing.


Most of the FALD LEDs we are working with now have native contrast ratios of around 5000:1 and around 6000:1 to 8000:1 with local dimming activated, and they look incredible. Having a set around 15000:1 would be phenomenal, especially with how bright these sets can get. The HDR would be fantastic.
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post #74 of 141 Old 11-28-2019, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by NuSoardGraphite View Post
Likely, instead of maxing out the black level, one can calibrate the 8 series to where it reaches a very deep black level and contrast (maybe 15000:1 or 20000:1) but it still maintains its shadow detail. Which means it won't come near OLED but probably compete with or even beat something like the Samsung Q90 and Sony Z9D.


Maybe instead of having the backlight at maximum setting, place it on the middle setting. That will raise the black level and possibly prevent the crushing.


Most of the FALD LEDs we are working with now have native contrast ratios of around 5000:1 and around 6000:1 to 8000:1 with local dimming activated, and they look incredible. Having a set around 15000:1 would be phenomenal, especially with how bright these sets can get. The HDR would be fantastic.
Very realistic. The 2018 Vizio PQuantum hit these numbers

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post #75 of 141 Old 11-28-2019, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Antarius View Post
Their pre-calibration is the same what I saw on mine. Everything is so much better once you do white balance.
Their pre-calibration performance should be viewed as malfunctional and QC negligence. This shouldn't be overlooked or sugar-coated.

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post #76 of 141 Old 11-28-2019, 05:28 PM
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Their pre-calibration performance should be viewed as malfunctional and QC negligence. This shouldn't be overlooked or sugar-coated.
No argument here. TCL will face a lot of returns from people who don't know how to calibrate themselves. They better fix it.
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post #77 of 141 Old 11-28-2019, 06:18 PM
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Hmm 60hz panel?
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post #78 of 141 Old 11-28-2019, 06:37 PM
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Hmm 60hz panel?
Wow

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Originally Posted by Rtings
The Q825 has a native refresh rate of 60Hz and doesn't support any advanced gaming features like FreeSync.
That'd make it an outright lie on TCL's part to Mark Henninger.

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post #79 of 141 Old 11-28-2019, 09:44 PM
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Wow



That'd make it an outright lie on TCL's part to Mark Henninger.
I have no idea who said what but somebody wasn't being honest.
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post #80 of 141 Old 11-28-2019, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by NuSoardGraphite View Post
Likely, instead of maxing out the black level, one can calibrate the 8 series to where it reaches a very deep black level and contrast (maybe 15000:1 or 20000:1) but it still maintains its shadow detail. Which means it won't come near OLED but probably compete with or even beat something like the Samsung Q90 and Sony Z9D.


Maybe instead of having the backlight at maximum setting, place it on the middle setting. That will raise the black level and possibly prevent the crushing.


Most of the FALD LEDs we are working with now have native contrast ratios of around 5000:1 and around 6000:1 to 8000:1 with local dimming activated, and they look incredible. Having a set around 15000:1 would be phenomenal, especially with how bright these sets can get. The HDR would be fantastic.
Bringing down the Contrast ratio to 15000:1 will only improve it to the level of Q90R which is still not good. As we know shadow detail is not Q90R's strong suit and it lacks a lot in that department. Getting Q90R level performance will be better than present situation but not the result expected from display packing that many local dimming zones. We cannot compare it to Z9D as no matter how low we tune the ratio it wouldn't matter unless the blacks starts turning into shades of grey. Z9D even with 7-8K contrast ration had inky blacks and was able to maintain perfect shadow detail with no loss at all which was possible because of its processing.Yes having higher contrast ratio is good but processing it perfectly is equally important. I am this disappointed because I set bar of expectation too high specially in back-light control and shadow detail department, and this TV went down on my expectations, I mean it is no where near what I expected.
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post #81 of 141 Old 11-29-2019, 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by KING DRANZER View Post
Bringing down the Contrast ratio to 15000:1 will only improve it to the level of Q90R which is still not good. As we know shadow detail is not Q90R's strong suit and it lacks a lot in that department. Getting Q90R level performance will be better than present situation but not the result expected from display packing that many local dimming zones. We cannot compare it to Z9D as no matter how low we tune the ratio it wouldn't matter unless the blacks starts turning into shades of grey. Z9D even with 7-8K contrast ration had inky blacks and was able to maintain perfect shadow detail with no loss at all which was possible because of its processing.Yes having higher contrast ratio is good but processing it perfectly is equally important. I am this disappointed because I set bar of expectation too high specially in back-light control and shadow detail department, and this TV went down on my expectations, I mean it is no where near what I expected.

The TCL R617 I have has a great PQ with only a 6100:1 CR with local dimming active. The picture on that looks great. I can't imagine the 825 not looking incredible with such a high CR as long as everything else is on point, which according to the review seems to be.

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post #82 of 141 Old 11-29-2019, 08:31 AM
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Wow



That'd make it an outright lie on TCL's part to Mark Henninger.
Well, let's alert Mark to this issue by posting his @imagic handle here and give him a chance to try to clarify it.
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post #83 of 141 Old 11-29-2019, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by NuSoardGraphite View Post
Likely, instead of maxing out the black level, one can calibrate the 8 series to where it reaches a very deep black level and contrast (maybe 15000:1 or 20000:1) but it still maintains its shadow detail. Which means it won't come near OLED but probably compete with or even beat something like the Samsung Q90 and Sony Z9D.


Maybe instead of having the backlight at maximum setting, place it on the middle setting. That will raise the black level and possibly prevent the crushing.


Most of the FALD LEDs we are working with now have native contrast ratios of around 5000:1 and around 6000:1 to 8000:1 with local dimming activated, and they look incredible. Having a set around 15000:1 would be phenomenal, especially with how bright these sets can get. The HDR would be fantastic.
There's no reason these can't be fixed with software but the bigger question is whether that will be the case. The lower fald setting should do exactly as you describe, rtings noticed there was increased SW based dynamic contrast as you select higher FALD settings which will increase black crush. Maybe an owner can ignore their recommendation and use one of the lower 2 settings and respond.
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post #84 of 141 Old 11-29-2019, 09:06 AM
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Well, let's alert Mark to this issue by posting his @imagic handle here and give him a chance to try to clarify it.
I cannot currently figure out exactly what you're discussing, and also I am super busy. So, if you could please post details about what the issue is, either in the form of links or a preferably a short summary, I can see if there's a satisfactory answer.

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post #85 of 141 Old 11-29-2019, 09:08 AM
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Well, let's alert Mark to this issue by posting his @imagic handle here and give him a chance to try to clarify it.
HDTVTEST motion resolution test indicated that the panel is 120hz.16 min. in.

While I appreciate RTINGS rote approach to testing, sometimes they fail to rationalize (in a good way) their test results. In this case the 60HZ thing and alternate dimming settings that they claimed. "To activate local dimming, you must set the Local Contrast setting to 'High' as the 'Medium' or 'Low' settings didn't seem to do much on our unit in real content." which may be true but even a bit better result from a lower setting on the great native contrast # would make it competitive with other top sets if the black crush was minimized.
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post #86 of 141 Old 11-29-2019, 09:13 AM
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I cannot currently figure out exactly what you're discussing, and also I am super busy. So, if you could please post details about what the issue is, either in the form of links or a preferably a short summary, I can see if there's a satisfactory answer.
The rtings.com review of the TCL Q825 says "The Q825 has a native refresh rate of 60Hz and doesn't support any advanced gaming features like FreeSync" whereas your TCL contact told you it had native 120Hz.

rtings.com/tv/reviews/tcl/8-series-2019-q825-qled
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post #87 of 141 Old 11-29-2019, 09:53 AM
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Could be a 120HZ panel on a set incapable of taking an 120hz input signal and they simply erred in that description. Rtings isn't perfect either and we shouldn't want this to get overblown until confirmed.
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post #88 of 141 Old 11-29-2019, 09:53 AM
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The TCL R617 I have has a great PQ with only a 6100:1 CR with local dimming active. The picture on that looks great. I can't imagine the 825 not looking incredible with such a high CR as long as everything else is on point, which according to the review seems to be.
I am comparing it to flagships which it should compete with and not budget TVs as comparing it to budget TVs is meaningless as it is priced as flagship and is expected to perform like one. It definitely will be better than R617 but if you think R617 had great PQ then you are sadly mistaken. For its budget R617 may have great picture quality but when compared to models up the budget line it is not good at all. When comparing it to Q90R or Q8N or Z9D or even X930E remember I am only talking about shadow detail and back-light control, it is lacking a lot. I am not even comparing its overall PQ as that is obviously no match, I am just talking about one aspect of it.
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post #89 of 141 Old 11-29-2019, 11:03 AM
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The rtings.com review of the TCL Q825 says "The Q825 has a native refresh rate of 60Hz and doesn't support any advanced gaming features like FreeSync" whereas your TCL contact told you it had native 120Hz.

rtings.com/tv/reviews/tcl/8-series-2019-q825-qled

Daniel from RTINGS here.
We tested the TV last week on the latest firmware at the time (9.1.2 build 6463-88). As of today, the TV has updated to a newer firmware (9.1.2 build 6471-88). The interpolation to 120Hz is currently working correctly, and we'll be updating the review shortly. At the moment we suspect this was just a firmware bug, but we don't know.
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post #90 of 141 Old 11-29-2019, 11:16 AM
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Well, let's alert Mark to this issue by posting his @imagic handle here and give him a chance to try to clarify it.
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Daniel from RTINGS here.
We tested the TV last week on the latest firmware at the time (9.1.2 build 6463-88). As of today, the TV has updated to a newer firmware (9.1.2 build 6471-88). The interpolation to 120Hz is currently working correctly, and we'll be updating the review shortly. At the moment we suspect this was just a firmware bug, but we don't know.
Thanks for chiming in.
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