TCL 8 Series Roku TV (2019 Model - 65" & 75") *Owner's Thread*(No Price Talk) - Page 4 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #91 of 129 Old 11-29-2019, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by js950 View Post
There's no reason these can't be fixed with software but the bigger question is whether that will be the case. The lower fald setting should do exactly as you describe, rtings noticed there was increased SW based dynamic contrast as you select higher FALD settings which will increase black crush. Maybe an owner can ignore their recommendation and use one of the lower 2 settings and respond.
Low and medium settings are bad. Black bars are gray in all modes except for high. Rtings review is correct here.
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post #92 of 129 Old 11-29-2019, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by DanielOKeeffe View Post
Daniel from RTINGS here.
We tested the TV last week on the latest firmware at the time (9.1.2 build 6463-88). As of today, the TV has updated to a newer firmware (9.1.2 build 6471-88). The interpolation to 120Hz is currently working correctly, and we'll be updating the review shortly. At the moment we suspect this was just a firmware bug, but we don't know.
My TV updated to 6471 a week ago. Interesting that you had such delay receiving this update.
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post #93 of 129 Old 11-29-2019, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by DanielOKeeffe View Post
Daniel from RTINGS here.
We tested the TV last week on the latest firmware at the time (9.1.2 build 6463-88). As of today, the TV has updated to a newer firmware (9.1.2 build 6471-88). The interpolation to 120Hz is currently working correctly, and we'll be updating the review shortly. At the moment we suspect this was just a firmware bug, but we don't know.
Thanks for trying to clarify. Interpolation aside, the question has been whether or not the TCL 8 Series has native 120Hz panels. A TCL source told @imagic that they were native 120Hz. You seem to be saying they have interpolation to 120Hz but are native 60Hz. A definitive clarification of native refresh rate would help settle the confusion.
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post #94 of 129 Old 11-29-2019, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Antarius View Post
Low and medium settings are bad. Black bars are gray in all modes except for high. Rtings review is correct here.
Native contrast without any local dimming is 6650 and it will be better with any amount of LD. Here's a no local dimming pic. That's a very dark gray.


I also think this was rushed to Market and will get better with updates and hopefully better LD options in the future. Doesn't count until they do it and they better at this price.
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post #95 of 129 Old 11-29-2019, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by DanielOKeeffe View Post
Daniel from RTINGS here.
We tested the TV last week on the latest firmware at the time (9.1.2 build 6463-88). As of today, the TV has updated to a newer firmware (9.1.2 build 6471-88). The interpolation to 120Hz is currently working correctly, and we'll be updating the review shortly. At the moment we suspect this was just a firmware bug, but we don't know.
Look forward to your updates. Digital Trends did not mention the black crush in their review (Nov 6th) and I believe that is the single biggest issue that owners and potential owners are concerned with. Could you let us know if the newest firmware improves the black crush? Also some owners mentioned that they only have the black crush on native apps, and external sources are fine. Can you comment on this as well?

Thanks for your great work
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post #96 of 129 Old 11-29-2019, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
Thanks for trying to clarify. Interpolation aside, the question has been whether or not the TCL 8 Series has native 120Hz panels. A TCL source told @imagic that they were native 120Hz. You seem to be saying they have interpolation to 120Hz but are native 60Hz. A definitive clarification of native refresh rate would help settle the confusion.
I think that's what he's saying. That the FW wasn't allowing the panel to do its thing.
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post #97 of 129 Old 11-29-2019, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
Thanks for trying to clarify. Interpolation aside, the question has been whether or not the TCL 8 Series has native 120Hz panels. A TCL source told @imagic that they were native 120Hz. You seem to be saying they have interpolation to 120Hz but are native 60Hz. A definitive clarification of native refresh rate would help settle the confusion.
Sorry I wasn't clear - we test the native refresh rate of TVs by getting the panel to display the highest frame rate possible without any frame skipping (and then use a high speed camera to determine the frame rate). To display this high frame rate, there are usually two options:

  • Send a high refresh rate signal (eg. 120Hz). On this TCL, a 120Hz signal experiences frame skipping (only 60Hz is displayed). This is the same before and after the firmware update.
  • Send a lower refresh rate signal (eg. 60Hz) and then apply motion interpolation on the TV to interpolate the output up to the panel's native refresh rate. When we tested this last week (on firmware 6463-88), this consistently went up to a 60Hz maximum. With the latest firmware (6471-88), we are able to interpolate up to 120Hz.
Let me know if you've got any more questions.

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Look forward to your updates. Digital Trends did not mention the black crush in their review (Nov 6th) and I believe that is the single biggest issue that owners and potential owners are concerned with. Could you let us know if the newest firmware improves the black crush? Also some owners mentioned that they only have the black crush on native apps, and external sources are fine. Can you comment on this as well?

Thanks for your great work
We don't know why this is - it might be that it varies between units. We experienced black crush both through native apps and via HDMI, including with the latest firmware. We also re-tested the pre-calibration this morning and found it to be the same (very high gamma, resulting in crushed dark scenes).
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post #98 of 129 Old 11-29-2019, 02:14 PM
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Also some owners mentioned that they only have the black crush on native apps, and external sources are fine.
I assume you are referring to some photos I posted before. I used it to demonstrate how broken some apps were especially youtube app. Black crush is there in all modes even after latest update. But fortunately it is fixable by adjusting white balance.
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post #99 of 129 Old 11-29-2019, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Antarius View Post
I assume you are referring to some photos I posted before. I used it to demonstrate how broken some apps were especially youtube app. Black crush is there in all modes even after latest update. But fortunately it is fixable by adjusting white balance.
So you're saying that the black crush problem is only out of the box and can be resolved via adjusting the settings?

Have you tried the Rtngs recommended settings by chance?

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post #100 of 129 Old 11-29-2019, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by DanielOKeeffe View Post
Sorry I wasn't clear - we test the native refresh rate of TVs by getting the panel to display the highest frame rate possible without any frame skipping (and then use a high speed camera to determine the frame rate). To display this high frame rate, there are usually two options:

  • Send a high refresh rate signal (eg. 120Hz). On this TCL, a 120Hz signal experiences frame skipping (only 60Hz is displayed). This is the same before and after the firmware update.
  • Send a lower refresh rate signal (eg. 60Hz) and then apply motion interpolation on the TV to interpolate the output up to the panel's native refresh rate. When we tested this last week (on firmware 6463-88), this consistently went up to a 60Hz maximum. With the latest firmware (6471-88), we are able to interpolate up to 120Hz.
Let me know if you've got any more questions. ...
Got it. The key point here is that the TCL 8 Series does have native 120Hz panels just as the TCL rep correctly stated to @imagic .
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post #101 of 129 Old 11-29-2019, 03:09 PM
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So you're saying that the black crush problem is only out of the box and can be resolved via adjusting the settings?
Have you tried the Rtngs recommended settings by chance?
Rtings settings will only work on their set. I did my own adjustments.

Out of the box gamma was average ~2.5 with bigger drops in 5%-10% to ~2.9. TCL's poor attempt to reach OLED level blacks may be? I adjusted it down to 2.2. That was immediate improvement in PQ and fixed shadow details. Aggressive dimming is not fixable this way though.

I say their calibration app is useless, because all it does is shows a white screen and you take pictures of it 12 times. I saw numbers change in 60%+, nothing was changed in 5%-50% where that black crush is.

I still don't understand how same settings affect both SDR and HDR10/DV.

It is unacceptable to have such poor accuracy out of the box in my opinion.
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post #102 of 129 Old 11-30-2019, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by DanielOKeeffe View Post
Sorry I wasn't clear - we test the native refresh rate of TVs by getting the panel to display the highest frame rate possible without any frame skipping (and then use a high speed camera to determine the frame rate). To display this high frame rate, there are usually two options:

  • Send a high refresh rate signal (eg. 120Hz). On this TCL, a 120Hz signal experiences frame skipping (only 60Hz is displayed). This is the same before and after the firmware update.
  • Send a lower refresh rate signal (eg. 60Hz) and then apply motion interpolation on the TV to interpolate the output up to the panel's native refresh rate. When we tested this last week (on firmware 6463-88), this consistently went up to a 60Hz maximum. With the latest firmware (6471-88), we are able to interpolate up to 120Hz.
Let me know if you've got any more questions.


We don't know why this is - it might be that it varies between units. We experienced black crush both through native apps and via HDMI, including with the latest firmware. We also re-tested the pre-calibration this morning and found it to be the same (very high gamma, resulting in crushed dark scenes).

So for a 24p Blu-ray the TV will do 5:5 up to 120hz, but the max signal it can display is 60hz? I guess for now there aren't too many 120hz signals, but that hurts (no pun intended) for the future.
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post #103 of 129 Old 12-01-2019, 05:41 PM
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Interesting find, TV accepts dolby truehd with atmos bitstreamed from nvidia shield.
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post #104 of 129 Old 12-02-2019, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by DanielOKeeffe View Post
Sorry I wasn't clear - we test the native refresh rate of TVs by getting the panel to display the highest frame rate possible without any frame skipping (and then use a high speed camera to determine the frame rate). To display this high frame rate, there are usually two options:

  • Send a high refresh rate signal (eg. 120Hz). On this TCL, a 120Hz signal experiences frame skipping (only 60Hz is displayed). This is the same before and after the firmware update.
  • Send a lower refresh rate signal (eg. 60Hz) and then apply motion interpolation on the TV to interpolate the output up to the panel's native refresh rate. When we tested this last week (on firmware 6463-88), this consistently went up to a 60Hz maximum. With the latest firmware (6471-88), we are able to interpolate up to 120Hz.
Let me know if you've got any more questions.
So you're saying that this is a Native 120hz display, that can't display a signal from a 120hz source, properly? Is that correct?

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post #105 of 129 Old 12-02-2019, 11:14 AM
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Interesting find, TV accepts dolby truehd with atmos bitstreamed from nvidia shield.
This is interesting. Is it really Dolby TrueHD or Dolby Digital+ with Atmos? Does it downmix it to stereo to output to TV speakers? Thanks.
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post #106 of 129 Old 12-02-2019, 12:28 PM
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This is interesting. Is it really Dolby TrueHD or Dolby Digital+ with Atmos? Does it downmix it to stereo to output to TV speakers? Thanks.
Direct play straight to TV and Dolby Atmos badge shows up.
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post #107 of 129 Old 12-02-2019, 04:30 PM
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Direct play straight to TV and Dolby Atmos badge shows up.
You're referring to a ripped True HD file played through the Plex Shield app correct? Does it pass through to a soundbar/AVR as True HD as well?
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post #108 of 129 Old 12-02-2019, 04:42 PM
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You're referring to a ripped True HD file played through the Plex Shield app correct?
Yes.

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Does it pass through to a soundbar/AVR as True HD as well?
I am using TV speakers. I have no plans to add soundbar to this TV.
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post #109 of 129 Old 12-02-2019, 05:14 PM
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Yes.


I am using TV speakers. I have no plans to add soundbar to this TV.
Gotcha. On further thought it wouldn't output True HD to a soundbar/AVR anyway, since the TV doesn't support eARC.
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post #110 of 129 Old 12-03-2019, 01:02 PM
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Rtings settings will only work on their set. I did my own adjustments.

Out of the box gamma was average ~2.5 with bigger drops in 5%-10% to ~2.9. TCL's poor attempt to reach OLED level blacks may be? I adjusted it down to 2.2. That was immediate improvement in PQ and fixed shadow details. Aggressive dimming is not fixable this way though.

I say their calibration app is useless, because all it does is shows a white screen and you take pictures of it 12 times. I saw numbers change in 60%+, nothing was changed in 5%-50% where that black crush is.

I still don't understand how same settings affect both SDR and HDR10/DV.

It is unacceptable to have such poor accuracy out of the box in my opinion.
I think somewhere in the RTings review he mentions that the SDR & HDR brightness are set together by TCL. Vincent from HDTV Test mentioned this as well. It's mentioned as a noteworthy shortcoming and Vincent's review didn't leave the impression that it's easily fixable. I think that's what I recall.

It's one of the reasons I'm holding off for now on the R & Q series. Some tweaks after the first generation are definitely needed.
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post #111 of 129 Old 12-03-2019, 01:53 PM
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Can we expect a price drop anytime soon on the 8 series?
$2000 & $3000 is a lot of scratch.
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post #112 of 129 Old 12-04-2019, 02:58 AM
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Can we expect a price drop anytime soon on the 8 series?
$2000 & $3000 is a lot of scratch.
Not soon enough. I went to my local Best Buy yesterday, and they had a 65" 8 series hidden away on a side wall playing the same crappy Best Buy feed as other lower tier TVs. Not exactly the presentation I'd expect from an exclusive sales deal.
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post #113 of 129 Old 12-04-2019, 08:23 AM
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Not soon enough. I went to my local Best Buy yesterday, and they had a 65" 8 series hidden away on a side wall playing the same crappy Best Buy feed as other lower tier TVs. Not exactly the presentation I'd expect from an exclusive sales deal.
My BB does the same thing, very disappointing they did that.
It really makes no sense to have an exclusive release and then shove it in the corner. I asked for the remote and they said they didn't have one. I know that's BS.
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post #114 of 129 Old 12-04-2019, 10:36 AM
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post #115 of 129 Old 12-04-2019, 11:31 AM
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My BB does the same thing, very disappointing they did that.
It really makes no sense to have an exclusive release and then shove it in the corner. I asked for the remote and they said they didn't have one. I know that's BS.
Do keep in mind that "exclusive" doesn't always mean "preferred". Manufacturers can and do pay for preferred display treatment on endcaps, in display rooms, etc.
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post #116 of 129 Old 12-04-2019, 01:08 PM
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Haven't been in to see if they have the 8 but BB has always crapped on TCL at my store. They had the 6 series mounted 10 feet off the ground on the back wall and that was the only TCL TV on display.

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post #117 of 129 Old 12-04-2019, 07:51 PM
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Haven't been in to see if they have the 8 but BB has always crapped on TCL at my store. They had the 6 series mounted 10 feet off the ground on the back wall and that was the only TCL TV on display.
Went to my BB to see the 8 Series and was told they won't be putting it on display at all because they didn't want to take sales away from the higher margin Samsung's and Sony's. I'm not even thinking of buying a $2k set without seeing it 1st! If I were TCL I'd be all over them and/or cancel the exclusive deal!
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post #118 of 129 Old 12-04-2019, 07:58 PM
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Went to my BB to see the 8 Series and was told they won't be putting it on display at all because they didn't want to take sales away from the higher margin Samsung's and Sony's. I'm not even thinking of buying a $2k set without seeing it 1st! If I were TCL I'd be all over them and/or cancel the exclusive deal!
I wouldn't be surprised if Samsung came up with that idea for BB, and Samsung gave them a bigger percentage of sales. BB tells TCL they want to be the exclusive seller. TCL falls for it. BB puts them in a back corner, nobody buys them, and Samsung kills off mini-led, and their only real challenge in the LCD TV market.

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post #119 of 129 Old 12-05-2019, 07:07 AM
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Went to my BB to see the 8 Series and was told they won't be putting it on display at all because they didn't want to take sales away from the higher margin Samsung's and Sony's. I'm not even thinking of buying a $2k set without seeing it 1st! If I were TCL I'd be all over them and/or cancel the exclusive deal!
Simply venting here probably won't do any good. Try writing or calling TCL directly. Tell them exactly what you saw and were told.

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post #120 of 129 Old 12-05-2019, 07:19 PM
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Simply venting here probably won't do any good. Try writing or calling TCL directly. Tell them exactly what you saw and were told.
Agreed, but posted items from forums like this always seem to end up in the right place. As to BBY if you’re buying there, simply ask them to connect one or leave. Sure other makers are trying to buy up the end caps and preferred space, but $2-3k from any seller adds up if people aren’t buying them. BBY has a sales problem so they’re eventually have to accept that what they do isn’t working at peak.

Not expecting big or regular discounts on these high end models except possibly to move a few units in Feb.
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