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post #1 of 32 Old 01-07-2020, 04:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Hisense TVs at CES 2020

Full press release:

Hisense Unveils Diverse Product Lineup at CES 2020, Combining the Latest Technology and Upgraded Picture Quality to Elevate the Viewing Experience

Witness the latest in home entertainment innovation at Hisense’s booth at CES, LVCC, Central Hall - 10039

LAS VEGAS - (Jan. 6, 2020) - Hisense, provider of high-performance televisions and appliances, unveils its 2020 TV lineup that combines new technologies, such as ULED, multiple content platforms, and smart home capabilities in a sleek package at a competitive price point. Hisense is now the #5 TV brand in the U.S. in units and is the fastest growing top 6 TV brands in the U.S. Hisense is committed to bringing the latest technological innovations to market and seamlessly blending the latest in software with sleek hardware to provide premium product offerings to consumers.

“Our industry-leading growth in 2019 was driven by our focus on quality and innovation. The industry took notice, and the H9F continues to receive accolades, routinely named by experts as the top choice in the coveted sub-$1,000 category,” says David Gold, Hisense U.S.A. Vice President, Consumer Electronics. “Hisense will build on that success in 2020. Consumers are tired of being dazzled with unattainable technology. Our lineup brings high-performing products that are not only accessible for the consumer yearning for an enhanced experience, but exceed expectations in each of their respective categories.”

L5 4K Ultra Short Throw Laser TV: A Full Cinematic Experience at an Unbelievable Price
Hisense is bringing the big-screen experience - once only seen in cinemas - into almost any room of the home with the new L5 Series. The L5 offers a far more affordable and energy efficient solution than large LCD screens, and delivers true-to-life images that exceed the standard 4K color range.

The L5’s blue laser light source produces razor-sharp, precise images with stunning detail, all while avoiding unwanted light dispersion and offering a more natural viewing experience. Fast-moving images appear smooth and precise, making it the ideal source for watching sports, enjoying fast-action movies and gaming. Embedded speakers featuring dbx-tv provide a superior audio experience, and Android TV brings plenty of content options with more than 5,000 apps and games from the Google Play Store to the 100” screen.

H9G Quantum Series: A Series Favorite Delivers Even More Features in 2020
Featuring Hisense’s patented ULED technology for enhanced picture quality, the H9G Quantum Dot Series includes even more upgrades in 2020 at a highly competitive price point. The addition of Dolby Vision and Dolby Atmos image and sound technologies provide enhanced color and immersive audio. Additional local dimming zones paired with Quantum Dot results in a true-to-life watching experience, and Android TV brings over 500,000 movies and shows, plus video streaming from Netflix, Hulu, YouTube, and others, making it easy to find your favorite content. In-bezel microphones and far-field voice control makes H9G a true smart home hub.

With the Google Assistant built into the H9G series, users can do more on the TV with just their voice. Ask the Assistant to search for the latest blockbuster or stream shows. You can also ask it questions and see the answers on the TV. Have it dim the lights by connecting smart home devices, or manage tasks and see calendars without needing to grab another device. With screenless mode, you can access the Assistant on the TV even when it’s off. It acts like a Google Assistant speaker. When you want to see a response to a question or command, the Assistant will know to turn on the TV.

H8G Quantum Series: Quantum Dot Technology Brings a Premium Viewing Experience
The H8G Quantum Series gets a major enhancement in 2020 with the addition of Quantum Dot technology. Featuring Hisense’s patented ULED technology, Hi-View Engine, Dolby Vision and Dolby Atmos, the H8G Series provides an exceptional viewing experience at an affordable price. Now with screen sizes reaching up to 75”, viewers can enjoy richer colors and greater detail with the addition of more local dimming zones, all on a user-friendly platform. With integrated Android technology, users can easily stream thousands of movies and shows from a variety of platforms such as Netflix, Hulu and YouTube. The Hisense Android TV features a voice remote for easy browsing, and the built-in Google Assistant allows users to quickly search and access entertainment, get answers from Google, control smart home devices, and more.

H65G Series: An array for 4K UHD Android TV Options
Hisense brings even more Android TV options in 2020 with the H65G Series, a 4K ultra high definition TV featuring Dolby Vision, DTS Virtual: X, Motion Rate Technology, and Bluetooth Audio. Great for gaming, streaming your favorite movies or TV shows and listening to music, with six available screen sizes, the H65G has an option for every room and budget. The TV is compatible with Amazon Alexa and Google Assistant, letting users control the TV via Alexa-enabled and Google Home devices.

XD9G: 4K ULED XD TV
Unveiled at CES 2019, Hisense will also have the XD9G on display this year. The XD9G features Hisense’s proprietary ULED XD technology. The television integrates Quantum Dot technology, Dolby Vision and Dolby Atmos. The fusion of Dolby Vision and Dolby Atmos transforms entertainment experiences through ultra vivid picture quality – incredible brightness, contrast, color, and detail – and immersive moving audio that flows all around a listener. In-bezel microphones and smart features, such as far-field voice control and integrated Google Assistant, make the TV a smart home hub.

Roku TV
Roku is America’s #1 TV streaming platform, and Hisense Roku TV models offer consumers a customizable home screen, thousands of free and paid streaming channels and advanced features like fast and easy search across top channels with results ranked by price search. The Roku home screen puts a customer’s favorite entertainment in one place so it’s easier than ever to watch what they love, including live TV, news, sports, hit movies, popular shows and more. Plus, consumers will always get the latest features with automatic updates. They also get access to the free Roku mobile app with even more features like Roku Voice and private listening. For additional voice control, customers can use Alexa-enabled devices and/or the Google Assistant to control a Roku TV.

R8F Series: First ULED 4K Hisense Roku TV
Combining stellar picture quality from Hisense with the Roku OS, the R8F Series provides incredible color, a detailed picture and fluid motion during action, sports and gaming sequences.

As the first 4K ULED Hisense Roku TV model, the R8F is a testament to the company’s five decades of innovation, expertise and product excellence. The R8F supports Dolby Vision, HDR10 and HLG to create astonishing images with enhanced color and more depth. With Motion Rate processing technology, viewers can enjoy the action of sports and games without lag or judder.

R6E3 Series: 4K Ultra High Definition Hisense Roku TV
The R6E3 Series brings an array of options for any room of the house and any budget, and also features a new, sleek bezel-less design. With over 8 million pixels, the R6E3 offers a clearer, more defined picture than Full HD, and DTS Studio Sound provides full, detailed sound from the TV’s speakers. For even more control, customers can use Alexa or Google Assistant enabled devices to control the TV.

H4G Series: Affordable Smart TV Ideal for Cord Cutters and Streamers
The Hisense Roku TV H4G Series is ideal for binge-watchers on a budget. Equipped with built-in Wi-Fi and faster search, users can activate and find their favorite shows, and sit back and enjoy the rich 2K picture. Customers can also use Alexa or Google Assistant enabled devices to control the TV.

Pricing and Availability
Hisense is showcasing its entire 2020 product lineup, including the brand new L5 laser TV and the upgraded H9G and H8G Series, January 7-10, 2020 at CES in the LVCC, Central Hall - 10039.

L5 Series will be available April 2020 for $5,999 MSRP.
H9G Series will be available April 2020 for $699.99 (55”) and $999.99 (65”) MSRP.
H8G Series will be available March 2020 for $399.99 (50”), $499.99 (55”), $699.99 (65”) and $1,399.99 (75”) MSRP.
H65G Series will be available Q2 2020 for $269.99 (43”), $299.99 (50”), $329.99 (55”), $479.99 (65”), $899.99 (75”) and $1,499.99 (85”) MSRP.
XD9G Series availability and pricing to be announced.
R8F Series available now at Walmart.com and for $499.99 (55”) and $699.99 (65”) MSRP.
R6E3 Series will be available in 2020 for $228 (43”), $248 (50”), $298 (58”), $428 (65”) and $798 (75”) MSRP.
H4G Series will be available 2020 for $115 (32”), $178 (40”) and $196 (43”) MSRP.

To learn more about all of Hisense’s premium offerings, visit Hisense-usa.com and follow @HisenseUSA on Facebook and YouTube and @Hisense_USA on Instagram and Twitter.


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post #2 of 32 Old 01-10-2020, 09:57 AM
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Was there any mention of HDMI 2.1 for the new models? In particular the H9G/H8G?
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post #3 of 32 Old 01-12-2020, 09:05 AM
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Hisense Dual Cell TV Launch in Q4 - Here's Why...

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post #4 of 32 Old 01-12-2020, 11:32 AM
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Not much to see here. The top end peaks at 1000 nits if really that.

This is somewhat interesting: H65G Series will be available Q2 2020 for $269.99 (43”), $299.99 (50”), $329.99 (55”), $479.99 (65”), $899.99 (75”) and $1,499.99 (85”) MSRP.

If the H65G 85" MSRPs at $1,499, then it will very likely be on sale at around $999 shipped by November. This will force down even the Vizio PX 85" and other higher end 85" offerings from TCL, Skyworth, and others. 85" may soon be the new 65" price wise which means while LG can dominate the higher end market up to 65", they cannot compete at large sizes like 85" with their ISP offerings. If the H65G series is even 500 nits, it may be a good buy. This may well be the year China floods the 85" market at a loss. If the trade war ends, could we see decent 85" TVs shipping under $800 by Christmas 2020? It is very possible....

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post #5 of 32 Old 01-14-2020, 12:38 PM
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Not much to see here. The top end peaks at 1000 nits if really that.

This is somewhat interesting: H65G Series will be available Q2 2020 for $269.99 (43”), $299.99 (50”), $329.99 (55”), $479.99 (65”), $899.99 (75”) and $1,499.99 (85”) MSRP.

If the H65G 85" MSRPs at $1,499, then it will very likely be on sale at around $999 shipped by November. This will force down even the Vizio PX 85" and other higher end 85" offerings from TCL, Skyworth, and others. 85" may soon be the new 65" price wise which means while LG can dominate the higher end market up to 65", they cannot compete at large sizes like 85" with their ISP offerings. If the H65G series is even 500 nits, it may be a good buy. This may well be the year China floods the 85" market at a loss. If the trade war ends, could we see decent 85" TVs shipping under $800 by Christmas 2020? It is very possible....

Not much to see? You're kidding right? They're bringing new LCD technology to consumers this year in the ULED XD model. Dual-cell (dual layer, dual panel) LCD has been limited to high end ($30k) monitors for production/mastering up until now.

The ULED XD will have a real native contrast ratio of 150,000:1 or better, this is light years beyond ANY other LCD (LED) TV coming this year (or prior). The rest of the LCD/LED TVs in 2020 will all be at best a 6,000:1 native contrast and use FALD to try and make up for it. They might hit 14,000:1 at best with FALD enabled. The ULED XD along with it's 150,000:1 native panel has FALD implemented; with this enabled the TV will be closer to 300,000:1

And to counter your point even if it does hit 1000 nits peak (which is pretty bright) it'll be: brighter than OLED, have equal blacks, better color and no burn in. It's the first true OLED contender; no other LCD will come close to this.

Sure, some LCDs will be brighter to compensate for their lower contrast but that's where the advantages will end. And as always the low native contrast screens and FALD quirks will rear their ugly heads.
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Will the H9G have eARC? I recently ordered a H9F (Canadian 55Q9809) and was disappointed to find out it doesn't have eARC.
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post #7 of 32 Old 01-15-2020, 03:12 PM
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Not much to see? You're kidding right? They're bringing new LCD technology to consumers this year in the ULED XD model. Dual-cell (dual layer, dual panel) LCD has been limited to high end ($30k) monitors for production/mastering up until now.

The ULED XD will have a real native contrast ratio of 150,000:1 or better, this is light years beyond ANY other LCD (LED) TV coming this year (or prior). The rest of the LCD/LED TVs in 2020 will all be at best a 6,000:1 native contrast and use FALD to try and make up for it. They might hit 14,000:1 at best with FALD enabled. The ULED XD along with it's 150,000:1 native panel has FALD implemented; with this enabled the TV will be closer to 300,000:1

And to counter your point even if it does hit 1000 nits peak (which is pretty bright) it'll be: brighter than OLED, have equal blacks, better color and no burn in. It's the first true OLED contender; no other LCD will come close to this.

Sure, some LCDs will be brighter to compensate for their lower contrast but that's where the advantages will end. And as always the low native contrast screens and FALD quirks will rear their ugly heads.
Agree with everything you said except for the part about no other LCD being able to hit higher than 14000:1 contrast. The TCL Mini LED from last year hit over 25000:1 and that was with 1000 zones. The Vidrian MiniLED for 2020 has 5000 zones. I don't think contrast will quintuple, but it will definitely be higher than last year's, which is already better than 14000:1.

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Originally Posted by SiGGy View Post
Not much to see? You're kidding right? They're bringing new LCD technology to consumers this year in the ULED XD model. Dual-cell (dual layer, dual panel) LCD has been limited to high end ($30k) monitors for production/mastering up until now.

The ULED XD will have a real native contrast ratio of 150,000:1 or better, this is light years beyond ANY other LCD (LED) TV coming this year (or prior). The rest of the LCD/LED TVs in 2020 will all be at best a 6,000:1 native contrast and use FALD to try and make up for it. They might hit 14,000:1 at best with FALD enabled. The ULED XD along with it's 150,000:1 native panel has FALD implemented; with this enabled the TV will be closer to 300,000:1

And to counter your point even if it does hit 1000 nits peak (which is pretty bright) it'll be: brighter than OLED, have equal blacks, better color and no burn in. It's the first true OLED contender; no other LCD will come close to this.

Sure, some LCDs will be brighter to compensate for their lower contrast but that's where the advantages will end. And as always the low native contrast screens and FALD quirks will rear their ugly heads.
Agree with everything you said except for the part about no other LCD being able to hit higher than 14000:1 contrast. The TCL Mini LED from last year hit over 25000:1 and that was with 1000 zones. The Vidrian MiniLED for 2020 has 5000 zones. I don't think contrast will quintuple, but it will definitely be her than last year's, which is already better than 14000:1.
True, but it's still a 6000:1 native panel and has a bunch of bugs. Checkerboarding from all of the FALD lighting and still blooming.

TCL does have a new design this year for it. Hopefully it helps.

Minus pure brightness it's going to be tough to beat the Hisense dual cell.

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At least with what I'm seeing so far in the upcoming market the H9G seems to be a good value for a bedroom/gaming TV. I'm also looking at the H8G, but the native 120 Hz panel in the H9G is looking really good.


Anyone know of any other TVs in that segment that have native 120 Hz panels, besides some of the Vizio M's?
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True, but it's still a 6000:1 native panel and has a bunch of bugs. Checkerboarding from all of the FALD lighting and still blooming.

TCL does have a new design this year for it. Hopefully it helps.

Minus pure brightness it's going to be tough to beat the Hisense dual cell.
Not saying it can beat a dual LCD in contrast. Just saying that there will be LCDs with better than 14000:1 contrast this year. And you said 14000:1 with FALD, so the native contrast of the TCL isn't a factor.

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Not saying it can beat a dual LCD in contrast. Just saying that there will be LCDs with better than 14000:1 contrast this year. And you said 14000:1 with FALD, so the native contrast of the TCL isn't a factor.
ya, I know. I appreciate your thoughts/data on it as I didn't even think of the TCL when I posted that. Which I should have...

FALD is a hack at best to try and hide low contrast panels. Granted the TCL has been the best at producing contrast numbers it has a lot of FALD quirks. Which IMO makes the contrast numbers with FALD enabled moot. So in my eyes... it's still 6,000:1 not 25,000:1 as the 25,000:1 comes with some pretty big caveats. Feel free to toss some sand in my eyes as it's just my opinion of the FALD system quirks.

I'm hopeful TCL's new design this year fixes some of the quirks as that's my 2nd choice; cool design if they can get it working right (especially the new one!). But as you can see my eye is on the Hisense


So as a practical example... sort of leaving contrast aside (but it's related!)

Lets say a Sony TV which has a 3,000:1 or at best a 6,000:1 panel has AWESOME color *in the charts*. It hits all of the color targets.
And now lets say the Hisense is 90% of what the Sony can do in terms of color in the charts. Some of the "numbers" people will say "but it's colors suck" compared to the Sony. And that's true *if you only look at colored squares on the screen*.

However... put the Sony next to the Hisense the Hisense will look remarkably better in terms of color/picture quality with real material. You really can't have "accurate color" with real world material on a FALD with a low contrast panel. It's just not possible; the light leakage from the low contrast panel won't allow it to happen. Now granted with single square color patterns on the screen to measure with a colorimeter you can make pretty graphs. In the real world with actual pictures on the screen with complex coloring/luminance the FALD will fall on it's face.


So while the contrast numbers with FALD are impressive with the TCL; I need to also be sold on the big picture
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ya, I know. I appreciate your thoughts/data on it as I didn't even think of the TCL when I posted that. Which I should have...

FALD is a hack at best to try and hide low contrast panels. Granted the TCL has been the best at producing contrast numbers it has a lot of FALD quirks. Which IMO makes the contrast numbers with FALD enabled moot. So in my eyes... it's still 6,000:1 not 25,000:1 as the 25,000:1 comes with some pretty big caveats. Feel free to toss some sand in my eyes as it's just my opinion of the FALD system quirks.

I'm hopeful TCL's new design this year fixes some of the quirks as that's my 2nd choice; cool design if they can get it working right (especially the new one!). But as you can see my eye is on the Hisense


So as a practical example... sort of leaving contrast aside (but it's related!)

Lets say a Sony TV which has a 3,000:1 or at best a 6,000:1 panel has AWESOME color *in the charts*. It hits all of the color targets.
And now lets say the Hisense is 90% of what the Sony can do in terms of color in the charts. Some of the "numbers" people will say "but it's colors suck" compared to the Sony. And that's true *if you only look at colored squares on the screen*.

However... put the Sony next to the Hisense the Hisense will look remarkably better in terms of color/picture quality with real material. You really can't have "accurate color" with real world material on a FALD with a low contrast panel. It's just not possible; the light leakage from the low contrast panel won't allow it to happen. Now granted with single square color patterns on the screen to measure with a colorimeter you can make pretty graphs. In the real world with actual pictures on the screen with complex coloring/luminance the FALD will fall on it's face.


So while the contrast numbers with FALD are impressive with the TCL; I need to also be sold on the big picture
EDITED
Agreed. I've never owned an LCD TV, and the "quirks" as you've mentioned are the reasons why. They do come with some their own advantages over other technologies like OLED, so I still entertain the thought of getting one.

Is FALD a hack? I guess it is of sorts, but it's also trying to accomplish what an emissive display does. Just at the most introductory level. An emissive could be looked at as a FALD with 8 million zones lol. Huge delta from the best FALD out there, but considering that you can't see individual pixels from a normal seating distance, there has to be some number of zones less than 8 million, where it stops making much difference. I don't know if 5000 is it, but I'm glad that they are trying to advance the tech where they can, because LCD may fail at contrast, but it does bring desirable attributes to the table as well. So if they could get the contrast to a certain point, it would make for some extremely tough decisions. I wouldn't mind that lol.

The same goes for color. While it may not technically be capable of producing intra-scene accurate color, the more zones, the harder it would be to see that without the use of a meter.

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Agreed. I've never owned an LCD TV, and the "quirks" as you've mentioned are the reasons why. They do come with some their own advantages over other technologies like OLED, so I still entertain the thought of getting one.

Is FALD a hack? I guess it is of sorts, but it's also trying to accomplish what an emissive display does. Just at the most introductory level. An emissive could be looked at as a FALD with 8 million zones lol. Huge delta from the best FALD out there, but considering that you can't see individual pixels from a normal seating distance, there has to be some number of zones less than 8 million, where it stops making much difference. I don't know if 5000 is it, but I'm glad that they are trying to advance the tech where they can, because LCD may fail at contrast, but it does bring desirable attributes to the table as well. So if they could get the contrast to a certain point, it would make for some extremely tough decisions. I wouldn't mind that lol.

The same goes for color. While it may not technically be capable of producing intra-scene accurate color, the more zones, the harder it would be to see that without the use of a meter.

ya, I feel the same.


This is where the dual cell should shine. Technically speaking the dual cell will have 2,000,000 dimming zones. Basically one zone for every 4 pixels.

Here's a comparison of a high end FALD Sony vs the Chinese release of the dual-cell (photographer used same exposure settings on all photos; slightly overexposed to show difference seen in person). Photo taken with both TVs at the same time... You can see in low contrast images the FALD looks OK, but in high contrast complex images it doesn't do well (very dark with very bright). Even with 5000 zones there will be compromises like you can see below (just less). Like yourself I'm excited companies are working to better their tech vs rolling same stuff out every year as others have...

I'm excited; this is the closest LCD has ever come to OLED And in theory it should best it: LCD can do better color with QDOT, should be brighter, and of course no burn in ... we'll see
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ya, I feel the same.


This is where the dual cell should shine. Technically speaking the dual cell will have 2,000,000 dimming zones. Basically one zone for every 4 pixels.

Here's a comparison of a high end FALD Sony vs the Chinese release of the dual-cell. Photo taken with both TVs at the same time... You can see in low contrast images the FALD looks OK, but in high contrast complex images it doesn't do well (very dark with very bright). Even with 5000 zones there will be compromises like you can see below (just less). Like yourself I'm excited companies are working to better their tech vs rolling same stuff out every year as others have...

I'm excited; this is the closest LCD has ever come to OLED And in theory it should best it: LCD can do better color with QDOT, should be brighter, and of course no burn in ... we'll see
I'm very excited about Dual LCD and have been following it for a while now. My enthusiasm has been tempered though by:

1- The release of the 2019 model in China without much fanfare
2- Still no idea what the pricing of that model is/was
3- Some of the technical challenges they have faced (was supposed to be a 4K on 4k stack for this year when 1st announced, as well as an 8K on 4K, but still looking like 4K on 1080p, which means no pixel level control, although still very good)
4- Conflicting info on viewing angles
5- Concerns about input lag for gaming
6- Can it hit 1000 nits target
7- Hisense saying that the 2020 version slated for USA is only 65"

Dual LCD looks like it could be a great evolution. I'd definitely feel much better about its prospects in the consumer realm, if it were Sony, Panasonic, or Samsung bringing it to market, though.

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I'm very excited about Dual LCD and have been following it for a while now. My enthusiasm has been tempered though by:

1- The release of the 2019 model in China without much fanfare
2- Still no idea what the pricing of that model is/was
3- Some of the technical challenges they have faced (was supposed to be a 4K on 4k stack for this year when 1st announced, as well as an 8K on 4K, but still looking like 4K on 1080p, which means no pixel level control, although still very good)
4- Conflicting info on viewing angles
5- Concerns about input lag for gaming
6- Can it hit 1000 nits target
7- Hisense saying that the 2020 version slated for USA is only 65"

Dual LCD looks like it could be a great evolution. I'd definitely feel much better about its prospects in the consumer realm, if it were Sony, Panasonic, or Samsung bringing it to market, though.
1) Where did you get this info from? It got excellent reviews in China; I used a few Chinese search engines and dug up professional reviews. "OLED like" was what everyone has said. The only negative I was was on the playstation forums where lag wasn't the best; but PQ was stunning.
2) $200-400 lower than cheapest OLED of same size is what's been quoted. So I'm guessing $1400 ish for the 65"; really have no clue though.
3) ya, I mentioned this it's one dimming zone per 4 pixels; IMO not an issue.
4) No conflict here; all videos and reviews have said it has excellent side viewing. Not to mention they have filters for this now days anyway... You can see this for yourself in any video that shows the 4K TV at CES or other trade shows. ... it's quite good.
5) yup, i don't think it'll appease gamers. But it does have some tweaks this year and a new processing engine... so we'll see.
6) The Chinese version hit 650 nits; no info on how they tested it or what mode the TV was in. Hisense is claiming it'll hit 1000 or a bit better for this year. We'll see...
7) ya, it is what it is

Hisense is the #1 TV brand in China... they have had high end TV(s) for awhile just most of them not sold in the US until recently. They only targeted the budget brands in the US when they started in the US market. It seems the flood gates are opening now though. If Sony, Panasonic or Samsung made this TV it'd be significantly more expensive. If Hisense has some success others will follow; plenty of other chinese fabs working on dual-panel designs. They have been shown at the trade shows; although most are for high end mastering use.

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post #16 of 32 Old 01-16-2020, 03:09 PM
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1) Where did you get this info from? It got excellent reviews in China; I used a few Chinese search engines and dug up professional reviews. "OLED like" was what everyone has said. The only negative I was was on the playstation forums where lag wasn't the best; but PQ was stunning.
2) $200-400 lower than cheapest OLED of same size is what's been quoted. So I'm guessing $1400 ish for the 65"; really have no clue though.
3) ya, I mentioned this it's one dimming zone per 4 pixels; IMO not an issue.
4) No conflict here; all videos and reviews have said it has excellent side viewing. Not to mention they have filters for this now days anyway... You can see this for yourself in any video that shows the 4K TV at CES or other trade shows. ... it's quite good.
5) yup, i don't think it'll appease gamers. But it does have some tweaks this year and a new processing engine... so we'll see.
6) The Chinese version hit 650 nits; no info on how they tested it or what mode the TV was in.
7) ya, it is what it is

Hisense is the #1 TV brand in China... they have had high end TV(s) for awhile just most of them not sold in the US until recently. They only targeted the budget brands in the US when they started in the US market. It seems the flood gates are opening now though. If Sony, Panasonic or Samsung made this TV it'd be significantly more expensive. If Hisense has some success others will follow; plenty of other chinese fabs working on dual-panel designs. They have been shown at the trade shows; although most are for high end mastering use.

Not saying that the reviews were bad... or good for that matter. Just that there wasn't much fanfare about it. Not seen one review outside of China for the set. I know it's a China only release, but there are plenty of people that will go to great lengths to review a product outside of their country if it's supposed to be something special.

Hisense had the TV at IFA last year and there were conflicting reports. Some said that the viewing angles were terrible, while others said they were better than traditional VA. And I don't want filters lol. Even though this will have contrast to spare, the wide view filter compromises fidelity.

It would be more expensive if one of the bigger names made it, but that would be fine with me as it would also likely (most probably) be a better product. I don't know that I trust Hisense in regards to processing, color accuracy, input lag, or design for that matter. The stand for the ULED XD is kind of whack... Never mounted a Tv before, and I may on my next purchase anyway, but would definitely be a must mount with this design

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post #17 of 32 Old 01-16-2020, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by SiGGy View Post
1) Where did you get this info from? It got excellent reviews in China; I used a few Chinese search engines and dug up professional reviews. "OLED like" was what everyone has said. The only negative I was was on the playstation forums where lag wasn't the best; but PQ was stunning.
2) $200-400 lower than cheapest OLED of same size is what's been quoted. So I'm guessing $1400 ish for the 65"; really have no clue though.
3) ya, I mentioned this it's one dimming zone per 4 pixels; IMO not an issue.
4) No conflict here; all videos and reviews have said it has excellent side viewing. Not to mention they have filters for this now days anyway... You can see this for yourself in any video that shows the 4K TV at CES or other trade shows. ... it's quite good.
5) yup, i don't think it'll appease gamers. But it does have some tweaks this year and a new processing engine... so we'll see.
6) The Chinese version hit 650 nits; no info on how they tested it or what mode the TV was in.
7) ya, it is what it is

Hisense is the #1 TV brand in China... they have had high end TV(s) for awhile just most of them not sold in the US until recently. They only targeted the budget brands in the US when they started in the US market. It seems the flood gates are opening now though. If Sony, Panasonic or Samsung made this TV it'd be significantly more expensive. If Hisense has some success others will follow; plenty of other chinese fabs working on dual-panel designs. They have been shown at the trade shows; although most are for high end mastering use.

Not saying that the reviews were bad... or good for that matter. Just that there wasn't much fanfare about it. Not seen one review outside of China for the set. I know it's a China only release, but there are plenty of people that will go to great lengths to review a product outside of their country if it's supposed to be something special.

Hisense had the TV at IFA last year and there were conflicting reports. Some said that the viewing angles were terrible, while others said they were better than traditional VA. And I don't want filters lol. Even though this will have contrast to spare, the wide view filter compromises fidelity.

It would be more expensive if one of the bigger names made it, but that would be fine with me as it would also likely (most probably) be a better product. I don't know that I trust Hisense in regards to processing, color accuracy, input lag, or design for that matter. The stand for the ULED XD is kind of whack... Never mounted a Tv before, and I may on my next purchase anyway, but would definitely be a must mount with this design <img src="https://www.avsforum.com/forum/images/AVSForum/smilies/tango_face_smile_big.png" border="0" alt="" title="Laugh" class="inlineimg" />
It was a small pilot release in China with very limited production. Not sure what your expectation was... That some reviewer would have someone pick one up (which were very difficult to get) and bring it back illegally to the US to review a set the US can't get?

The model for the US is not getting that stand (according to some sources). It was only for that small run. And the US version has hardware updates.

Anyway. We'll see what happens when they release it.

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post #18 of 32 Old 01-17-2020, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by SiGGy View Post
ya, I feel the same.


This is where the dual cell should shine. Technically speaking the dual cell will have 2,000,000 dimming zones. Basically one zone for every 4 pixels.

Here's a comparison of a high end FALD Sony vs the Chinese release of the dual-cell (photographer used same exposure settings on all photos; slightly overexposed to show difference seen in person). Photo taken with both TVs at the same time... You can see in low contrast images the FALD looks OK, but in high contrast complex images it doesn't do well (very dark with very bright). Even with 5000 zones there will be compromises like you can see below (just less). Like yourself I'm excited companies are working to better their tech vs rolling same stuff out every year as others have...

I'm excited; this is the closest LCD has ever come to OLED And in theory it should best it: LCD can do better color with QDOT, should be brighter, and of course no burn in ... we'll see
I'm sure the Hisense has better contrast but those picture show 2 TVs that are set up differently. They need to have the same peak brightness for that sort of shot and the Sony is clearly higher and looks overexposed here while the Hisense does not which is odd considering your slightly overexposed camera setting comment. Indicates to me that while it has better contrast, the Hisense is still lacking brightness. I'd disregard that photo off hand.

Here is the exact same photo where the sony 1/2 (still on the left) was adjusted in Paint.net and the Hisense is untouched. We know you can't put the genie back in the bottle once over exposed but I matched the brightness and contrast to where the Sony crushes blacks almost as much as the hisense settings. How a set is adjusted and camera exposed is a huge deal.
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post #19 of 32 Old 01-17-2020, 07:03 AM
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I'm sure the Hisense has better contrast but those picture show 2 TVs that are set up differently. They need to have the same peak brightness for that sort of shot and the Sony is clearly higher and look overexposed here while the Hisense does not which is odd considering your slightly overexposed camera setting comment. Indicate to me that while it has better contrast, the Hisense is still lacking brightness. I'd disregard that photo off hand.

What it shows is how bad the light leakage is on a 6,000:1 panel with FALD on a complex real-world photo. Which is why the Sony looks washed out, because it is... light bleeding

In those photos what's happening is the image is asking the FALD for something bright and something very dark in the same FALD zone. TV is doing the best it can, which is at best a compromise. Basically you end up back where you started... 6,000:1 contrast (or worse; some Samsung last year were only 3,000:1).

If you look you'll see the photos where there isn't a lot of high contrast; that is dark and bright pixels adjacent to one another the panels look closer. It's when there's dark next to bright where the Sony falls on it's face. And that's expected... it's 6,000:1!

You can't add FALD to a 6,000:1 panel and make it perform like a 150,000:1 panel it's just not going to happen. Peak luminance was calibrated to be the same in that photo between both TVs. In fact the Sony was noted to be dimmer in some shots if you read the article (it's in Chinese I can link it if you want)

There is a reason why OLED looks so much better than LCD This is why this LCD technology is so exciting. This is ALSO the reason high end monitors for mastering are dual panel LCD now

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post #20 of 32 Old 01-17-2020, 07:27 AM
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Look again. Added a photo. The Sony still has better shadow detail in the photo in my post with similar brightness and higher contrast after the fact of being overexposed to begin with. Photos like that tell me nothing one way or the other. A camera can do whatever you want it to do.

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post #21 of 32 Old 01-17-2020, 07:29 AM - Thread Starter
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What it shows is how bad the light leakage is on a 6,000:1 panel with FALD on a complex real-world photo. Which is why the Sony looks washed out, because it is... light bleeding

In those photos what's happen is the image is asking the FALD for something bright and something very dark in the same FALD zone. TV is doing the best it can, which is at best compromise. Basically you end up back where you started... 6,000:1 contrast (or worse; some Samsung last year were only 3,000:1).

If you look you'll see the photos where there isn't a lot of high contrast; that is dark and bright pixels adjacent to one another the panels look closer. It's when there's dark next to bright where the Sony falls on it's face. And that's expected... it's 6,000:1!

You can't add FALD to a 6,000:1 panel and make it perform like a 150,000:1 panel it's just not going to happen. Peak luminance was calibrated to be the same in that photo between both TVs. In fact the Sony was noted to be dimmer in some shots if you read the article (it's in Chinese I can link it if you want)

There is a reason why OLED looks so much better than LCD This is why this LCD technology is so exciting. This is ALSO the reason high end monitors for mastering are dual panel LCD now
Great points. All true. With VA LCD, it's only 6000:1 head-on, too. Granted the more zones you have the better you can deal with those difficult images. Native contrast is a huge deal but needs good peak brightness to really deliver. No doubt, there is something to be said for buying a TV that uses the same display technology as whatever the latest mastering displays use.

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I'm looking forward to Dual Panel sets fully realized. I was just saying that photos like that are kinda silly unless extremely well controlled. I also think a 1080 panel behind a 4k panel will be more than enough to accomplish the desired result.

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post #23 of 32 Old 01-17-2020, 08:01 AM
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Well, Hisense has pulled out of OLED production to focus on what they consider is a superior technology. Dual LCD. Very interested to see the final product, even though 65" is a non starter in my book.

https://www.techradar.com/news/exclu...d-tvs-for-good
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post #24 of 32 Old 01-17-2020, 08:07 AM
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Great points. All true. With VA LCD, it's only 6000:1 head-on, too. Granted the more zones you have the better you can deal with those difficult images. Native contrast is a huge deal but needs good peak brightness to really deliver. No doubt, there is something to be said for buying a TV that uses the same display technology as whatever the latest mastering displays use.
Thanks.

ya there is a lot of unknowns until professional reviewers like yourself start evaluating the US version whenever it arrives. I'm hopeful they do hit the "more than 1000 nits" they claim on this years model. But even if it's close too 1000 that'd be OK too. (lol, being totally honest I'm still skeptical the TV will arrive at all in the US)
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post #25 of 32 Old 01-17-2020, 08:14 AM
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Look again. Added a photo. The Sony still has better shadow detail in the photo in my post with similar brightness and higher contrast after the fact of being overexposed to begin with. Photos like that tell me nothing one way or the other. A camera can do whatever you want it to do.
No, the Sony is blown out. Some of that stuff you shouldn't see as you do. The photo was slightly overexposed to show more what the eye see's in person. It's impossible to translate a 8bit non HDR image displayed on a non-hdr monitor to what the human eye is seeing. Which is why the exposure was tweaked.

I think you're forgetting both TVs were photographed at the same time... the flattened washed out look is due to the Sony's light bleed on the lower contrast panel and the FALD system unable to compensate; nothing more...


There are no tricks that will make a 6,000:1 panel look as good a s 150,000:1... especially one with 100's of zones anyway. The TCL has 2,000,000 zones.
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post #26 of 32 Old 01-17-2020, 08:16 AM
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It's too easy to make a static camera shot show what you want it to when trying to compare TVs like this; just look at the wildly different versions of the 'comparo' posted on this page.

The human eye has a dynamic iris; cameras don't. Human vision functions fundamentally differently than a camera. You can't assume what looks "washed out" in a photograph looks "washed out" in reality standing there with your eyes. I'm not disputing the higher zone count and dual-layer will measure objectively better contrast that you can easily capture on a camera or measurement instruments, just how perceivable it is by eye.

Finally, you can call the Sony a 'high end' FALD set if you want, but in reality it's a low zone count mediocre FALD implementation if that's any of the X9xxe/f/g series, which it look like it is. In the RTings test, FALD only increases measured contrast from 4400:1 to 4800:1 on the latest X950G. Compare that to even a mid-range Vizio (P-series) with similar native contrast, and its FALD boosts contrast from 4300:1 all the way to 9300:1. There's a huge gulf between how effective different FALD systems are, and it's impossible to generalize about the technology at this point. The Sonys (that aren't a Z9G) are particularly unimpressive in the regard being measured though, which I suspect is not coincidence.
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post #27 of 32 Old 01-17-2020, 08:34 AM
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It's too easy to make a static camera shot show what you want it to when trying to compare TVs like this; just look at the wildly different versions of the 'comparo' posted on this page.

The human eye has a dynamic iris; cameras don't. Human vision functions fundamentally differently than a camera. You can't assume what looks "washed out" in a photograph looks "washed out" in reality standing there with your eyes. I'm not disputing the higher zone count and dual-layer will measure objectively better contrast, just how perceivable it is.

Finally, you can call the Sony a 'high end' FALD set if you want, but in reality it's a low zone count mediocre FALD implementation if that's any of the X9xxe/f/g series, which it look like it is. In the RTings test, FALD only increases measured contrast from 4400:1 to 4800:1 on the latest X950G. Compare that to even a mid-range Vizio (P-series) with similar native contrast, and its FALD boosts contrast from 4300:1 all the way to 9300:1. There's a huge gulf between how effective different FALD systems are, and it's impossible to generalize about the technology at this point.

The photo being displayed on the TV is static, so the dynamic portion of the eye is eliminated in this comparion. The information is not changing. The photo taken is accurate to show how the low contrast panels bleed and the high panel does not; like it or not.

I'm feeling like a broken record. I think this will be my last go around.

You can't make a 3,000:1 or 6,000:1, native panel look good as 150,000:1 native panel with FALD tricks. Period. (I'm not talking about brighter that's another discussion) Somehow people have been tricked into believing FALD is turning water into wine. When you bring up a complex image on any FALD TV in some zones you will drop back to the panels native contrast ratio in the areas of the screen which have major contrast swings... The FALD can't do any tricks at that point to try and "improve" the contrast. So in those zones you have a 3,000:1 or 6,000:1 TV (whatever the native contrast is). Sure there are some calibration patterns and some images which do allow the FALD to improve the contrast but it still comes with caveats.

The picture above is showing the caveats... light bleed. Light bleed hurts a lot more than people might realize. It's one of the reasons OLED look so amazing when you look at them; there is no bleeding backlight washing the colors/contrast out.

Anyway, I digress. Everyone enjoy the weekend. I'll come back here when were closer to some reviewers getting their hands on them, see what we have to work with.

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If you don't want to understand... You're extrapolating way too much from an uncontrolled camera shot. Please don't now tell me how controlled it was because both sets were not optimized for the best result with that particular exposure. A picture of a picture is not that picture. No one is arguing the tech aspects but that photo proves nothing other than your predilection.
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post #29 of 32 Old 01-17-2020, 10:52 AM
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The photo being displayed on the TV is static, so the dynamic portion of the eye is eliminated in this comparion. The information is not changing. The photo taken is accurate to show how the low contrast panels bleed and the high panel does not; like it or not.

I'm feeling like a broken record. I think this will be my last go around.

You can't make a 3,000:1 or 6,000:1, native panel look good as 150,000:1 native panel with FALD tricks. Period. (I'm not talking about brighter that's another discussion) Somehow people have been tricked into believing FALD is turning water into wine. When you bring up a complex image on any FALD TV in some zones you will drop back to the panels native contrast ratio in the areas of the screen which have major contrast swings... The FALD can't do any tricks at that point to try and "improve" the contrast. So in those zones you have a 3,000:1 or 6,000:1 TV (whatever the native contrast is). Sure there are some calibration patterns and some images which do allow the FALD to improve the contrast but it still comes with caveats.

The picture above is showing the caveats... light bleed. Light bleed hurts a lot more than people might realize. It's one of the reasons OLED look so amazing when you look at them; there is no bleeding backlight washing the colors/contrast out.

Anyway, I digress. Everyone enjoy the weekend. I'll come back here when were closer to some reviewers getting their hands on them, see what we have to work with.
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If you don't want to understand... You're extrapolating way too much from an uncontrolled camera shot. Please don't now tell me how controlled it was because both sets were not optimized for the best result with that particular exposure. A picture of a picture is not that picture. No one is arguing the tech aspects but that photo proves nothing other than your predilection.

Some of you are hyper focused on the fact that you can take photos of a TV that makes the TV look worse or look incorrect to what the eye sees. The photographer in this specific case set the exposure to show what their eyes were seeing that was different when the TVs were viewed side by side to accentuate the differences. They did this so it was well represented in a non hdr 8 bit photo. I already indicated this prior; the ignorance is not in my court. They were NOT trying to make it look exactly like it does IRL as that's an impossible task.

These pictures are not from some non-professional Hisense tv owning zealot trying to make the Hisense appear one way or another. They themselves even took some photos that threw off the camera and they also shared them! Some of them make the Hisense look odd but they also noted that the TV in real life doesn't show as the photo does.

I'm still sorta flabbergasted you don't see the correlation between the low contrast photos and the high contrast complex photos. And how the low contrast ones the TVs look very close; and the high contrast ones the Sony takes a major dump. I know, i know it's because you CAN take photos that make the TV look bad. But you'll choose to ignore the reviewer took shots to represent what they saw in person that accentuated what was seen.

rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat

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post #30 of 32 Old 01-17-2020, 11:40 AM
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So? His interpretation wasn't the issue, nor that the TVs were obviously calibrated quite differently. How does a guy exaggerating photos to display his opinion lead to your absolutes regarding the photo? The photo is less an issue than you using it as 'proof' of something it does not prove in any way. The Hisense photo is actually underexposed unless you think crushing blacks is OK. Also look at the bright background of the lizard shot. The Hisense obviously looks to have the contrast turned way up and is blowing out some detail in what appears to be sand in the photo while also and noticeably crushing blacks in the rose shot. It's not really better as much as the opposite extreme as photographed or at least the photographer made it look that way with his interpretation. It's why I did the same with the retouch. Knocked down brightness, added contrast and touched up the saturation to show that pic that was already compromised by exposure could be made to look at least as good as he was trying to make the Hisense look in his photos. Had I done that to both sides, the hisense would have looked like it had a brightness of 50 nits.

No one is arguing with your take on the tech or that the photo is a personal representation, just with the use of that photo as proof of anything, anything at all.

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