2020 Samsung Q90T Owners Thread - No Price Talk - Page 20 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #571 of 1444 Old 05-27-2020, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by esk1 View Post
Rtings full review is out this morning. In reference to the Q80T, which leads me to believe the march press release that the this is a 10bit panel and the q80t is not. Still a guess at this point: "The Q90T has a higher contrast ratio and peak brightness, and it has much better gradient performance, resulting in less banding."
In light of the 8 bit or 10 bit discussion I also zeroed in on the difference in gradient banding.

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post #572 of 1444 Old 05-27-2020, 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by venus933 View Post
In light of the 8 bit or 10 bit discussion I also zeroed in on the difference in gradient banding.
https://i.rtings.com/images/reviews/...ient-large.jpg

https://i.rtings.com/images/reviews/...ient-large.jpg
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post #573 of 1444 Old 05-27-2020, 06:36 AM
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8-bit panel with FRC calling it 10-bit Rtings exposes this with the gradient banding. It’s not a 10-bit panel IMO
Downgraded Menu quickness, and fluid animations Nows it’s not smooth. Only reason. Is a downgraded GPU that can’t cope.
Inverse ghosting (in 2020 what’s is wrong with you guys ?) this is the highest form of Unacceptable.
What Unknows await when we hook up a true HDMI 2.1 source aka Xbox One Series X and try an enable FreeSync at 120hz. ?

If there’s ever was a time to avoid TV this is it.

A new 2020 Vizio P Series Quantum at 65” has 240 Zones And true HDMI 2.1 ports and will be easily a much better value than a 65” Q90T.
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post #574 of 1444 Old 05-27-2020, 06:42 AM
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Ratings:

9.6
Supported Resolutions
1080p @ 60 Hz @ 4:4:4
Yes
1080p @ 120 Hz
Yes (native support)
1440p @ 60 Hz
Yes (native support)
1440p @ 120 Hz
Yes (native support)
4k @ 60 Hz
Yes
4k @ 60 Hz @ 4:4:4
Yes
4k @ 120 Hz
No


Is this for real? Isn't this supposed to be one of the selling points of the TV? Does it require an HDMI 2.1 input to achieve this? Maybe I'm missing something...
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post #575 of 1444 Old 05-27-2020, 06:43 AM
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Originally Posted by SlackerX View Post
Ratings:

9.6
Supported Resolutions
1080p @ 60 Hz @ 4:4:4
Yes
1080p @ 120 Hz
Yes (native support)
1440p @ 60 Hz
Yes (native support)
1440p @ 120 Hz
Yes (native support)
4k @ 60 Hz
Yes
4k @ 60 Hz @ 4:4:4
Yes
4k @ 120 Hz
No


Is this for real? Isn't this supposed to be one of the selling points of the TV? Maybe I'm missing something...

Did you read?? This has been a problem testing on hdmi 2.1 tvs as there is no source.


"The TV is advertised as being able to display a 4k @ 120Hz signal; however, we weren't able to do so. It most likely requires an HDMI 2.1 source, which there are none at this time. We'll retest this once a proper source is available and provide an update."
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post #576 of 1444 Old 05-27-2020, 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted by esk1 View Post
Did you read?? This has been a problem testing on hdmi 2.1 tvs as there is no source.


"The TV is advertised as being able to display a 4k @ 120Hz signal; however, we weren't able to do so. It most likely requires an HDMI 2.1 source, which there are none at this time. We'll retest this once a proper source is available and provide an update."
No. I didn't. Thanks for pointing that out and thanks for being so "forthright" with your reply...

As you can see above, I had already quickly edited my question with that exact answer...
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post #577 of 1444 Old 05-27-2020, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by esk1 View Post
Did you read?? This has been a problem testing on hdmi 2.1 tvs as there is no source.


"The TV is advertised as being able to display a 4k @ 120Hz signal; however, we weren't able to do so. It most likely requires an HDMI 2.1 source, which there are none at this time. We'll retest this once a proper source is available and provide an update."
It's funny, I may be misinterpreting, but people tend to get very emotional in their responses regarding this TV. No need to be defensive. We're just having an objective discussion here. As I often do, I went straight to the empirical results and went back to read the subjective description of the review afterward.
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post #578 of 1444 Old 05-27-2020, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by SlackerX View Post
It's funny, I may be misinterpreting, but people tend to get very emotional in their responses regarding this TV. No need to be defensive. We're just having an objective discussion here.

I assumed anyone visiting this forums has probably read multiple TV reviews this year as its common just like it was on the q80t before. It is stupid that rtings puts the disclaimer under VRR are not right next to the giant 4k120hz "No". That being said you are definitely adding a lot of unintended inflection to my comment to read it this way.
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post #579 of 1444 Old 05-27-2020, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Ice Cold View Post
8-bit panel with FRC calling it 10-bit Rtings exposes this with the gradient banding. It’s not a 10-bit panel IMO
Downgraded Menu quickness, and fluid animations Nows it’s not smooth. Only reason. Is a downgraded GPU that can’t cope.
Inverse ghosting (in 2020 what’s is wrong with you guys ?) this is the highest form of Unacceptable.
What Unknows await when we hook up a true HDMI 2.1 source aka Xbox One Series X and try an enable FreeSync at 120hz. ?

If there’s ever was a time to avoid TV this is it.

A new 2020 Vizio P Series Quantum at 65” has 240 Zones And true HDMI 2.1 ports and will be easily a much better value than a 65” Q90T.
I still believe this to be a 10-bit panel or at least a very good 8bit+frc panel. Its definitely "better" than the q80t panel and we still have march press release saying q80t is 8 bit with dithering and q90t is 10bit so that is the best most empirical evidence at this point. That being said the performance is what actually matters. I don't doubt the P series could be a better value, I don't think I've ever heard anyone call samsung a value brand. I would of bought a 2019 P series X if it wasn't for the massive banding issues that were noticeable in all types of content. I don't trust any of these TV manufacturers and we haven't had a sniff of a release date from Vizio. I think if your looking at the q90t as a gaming display you probably should wait a bit if you can.



I think I'm going to keep my delivery of my 75 q90t tomorrow. I'll still state that without perks at work discount I would have waited for the P series review myself. The ghosting thing is the only issue that I'm concerned about so I will be testing that as much as I can. I mainly play switch on the console which I think will benefit from game motion plus but I do have a xbox one x i never use lying around as I am primarily a pc gamer and this TV is more for the wife and movies/sports. I should also state I've been holding onto my ST60 plasma since 2011 and have a baby on the way in two weeks or so, so this is my last chance to replace that TV with a size upgrade till 2022 probably.
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post #580 of 1444 Old 05-27-2020, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by esk1 View Post
I assumed anyone visiting this forums has probably read multiple TV reviews this year as its common just like it was on the q80t before. It is stupid that rtings puts the disclaimer under VRR are not right next to the giant 4k120hz "No". That being said you are definitely adding a lot of unintended inflection to my comment to read it this way.
I'm not sure why you would assume that. It's very easy to find this forum discussion in a Google or Bing search. I've been a forum member for years so I often come here first for actual owner experiences. I just started considering the possibility of a replacement TV in the past few weeks and didn't start seriously watching the reviews on YouTube or checking RTings until just a couple of weeks or so ago. A lot has changed since my A1E and I'm looking to maximize our gaming and movie watching experiences in our household now, with a bit of future-proofing thrown in if that's even really possible for very long these days.
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post #581 of 1444 Old 05-27-2020, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by improwise View Post
"The Samsung Q90T is an excellent TV, suitable for every type of content. Compared to 2019's Q90R, it performs almost identically, but it loses some features like the One Connect Box and it no longer supports Samsung's no-gap wall mount"


"The Samsung Q90T QLED is better than the Samsung Q90/Q90R QLED overall. The Q90T is the Q90R's replacement in name only, as it doesn't have the One Connect Box and its feature set is closer to the Q80R. The Q90T has better viewing angles due to the new implementation of the 'Ultra Viewing Angle' layer, and it has a significantly faster response time and lower input lag. The Q90T gains eARC support, but its black uniformity is noticeably worse compared to the Q90R."

Still seems like its hard to say that the Q90T/Q95T is just better than the Q90R, even though its a later model. Its strange that they say the viewing angles are better since other reviews seem to say the opposite, that Samsung went to far last year and had focused more on PQ and less on viewing angles this year.
I would say. Pretty much, good as Q90R, for cheaper price.
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post #582 of 1444 Old 05-27-2020, 07:36 AM
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Taking a look a the Response time charts for rtings reviews for 90T & 80T we clearly see the overshoot issue and the pixel response times. I compared it to my Q8FN/Q8DN charts which has little to no overshoot and as such no issues with reverse ghosting.



We even see the 80T being worse than the 90T. I see overshoot being worse than having a slow response time. Samsung is kinda known for this from PC monitor side on their VA panels. A little sad we would have it reproduced on these TV's.


Q90T: https://i.rtings.com/images/reviews/...me-2-large.jpg
Q80T: https://i.rtings.com/images/reviews/...me-2-large.jpg
Q8FN: https://i.rtings.com/images/reviews/...me-2-large.jpg
Q9FN: https://i.rtings.com/images/reviews/...me-2-large.jpg
Q90R: https://i.rtings.com/images/reviews/...me-2-large.jpg


If you compare the Q90R to Q90T, you see the 90R is slightly better but it still had issues, 2020 is just worse overall.
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post #583 of 1444 Old 05-27-2020, 07:50 AM
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I don't reallly get Rtings reviews.....they say "The Q90T has a significantly faster response time and lower input lag" compared with the Q90R, yet, these are the numbers from both reviews. I find them to be almost equal. As mainly a twitch gamer, low input lag and response time is important but looking at 120 hz, the difference is almost negligible. Its also interesting that the managed to meassure a 4K at 120 hz for Q90R but not Q90T.


Edit:


Forum software messed up the formatting so here are the links instead:

https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/samsung/q90t-qled
https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/samsung/q90-q90r-qled

Last edited by improwise; 05-27-2020 at 07:54 AM.
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post #584 of 1444 Old 05-27-2020, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Nighthog View Post
Taking a look a the Response time charts for rtings reviews for 90T & 80T we clearly see the overshoot issue and the pixel response times. I compared it to my Q8FN/Q8DN charts which has little to no overshoot and as such no issues with reverse ghosting.



We even see the 80T being worse than the 90T. I see overshoot being worse than having a slow response time. Samsung is kinda known for this from PC monitor side on their VA panels. A little sad we would have it reproduced on these TV's.


Q90T: https://i.rtings.com/images/reviews/...me-2-large.jpg
Q80T: https://i.rtings.com/images/reviews/...me-2-large.jpg
Q8FN: https://i.rtings.com/images/reviews/...me-2-large.jpg
Q9FN: https://i.rtings.com/images/reviews/...me-2-large.jpg
Q90R: https://i.rtings.com/images/reviews/...me-2-large.jpg


If you compare the Q90R to Q90T, you see the 90R is slightly better but it still had issues, 2020 is just worse overall.
I guess this would explain why I don’t see any reverse ghosting on my q9fn in any setting... Why is the overshoot mitigated by game motion plus? Does this mean that this set really isn’t’ going to be viable due to being unable to use free sync and it’s something that can’t be mitigated with firmware?
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post #585 of 1444 Old 05-27-2020, 07:57 AM
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I'm sure, that issue o Q90t with reverse ghosting is the software problem. Why? Becose if you turn on Game Motion Plus, then VRR is off and every thing is OK.

We must wait for a some update from Samsung that will repair this issue.
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post #586 of 1444 Old 05-27-2020, 07:58 AM
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Downgraded Menu quickness, and fluid animations Nows it’s not smooth. Only reason. Is a downgraded GPU that can’t cope.

Stop posting this bulls**t, a TV doesnt have a GPU. You are just embarassing yourself.
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post #587 of 1444 Old 05-27-2020, 08:01 AM
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It's a shame. I had high hopes for the Q90T. There doesn't seem to be alot of alternatives at the moment. I love the Samsung color pop but the issues seem like a dealbreaker for a premium priced tv, let alone a cheaper one.
There just are no premium LED tv's in the 55, 65, and 75 except for the 90T. ( In the 4K sector )
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Last edited by Cleveland Plasma; 05-27-2020 at 08:34 AM.
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post #588 of 1444 Old 05-27-2020, 08:08 AM
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There just are no premium LED tv's in the 55, 65, and 75 except for the 90T.

Including Samsungs 8K TVs?
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post #589 of 1444 Old 05-27-2020, 08:10 AM
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There just are no premium LED tv's in the 55, 65, and 75 except for the 90T.
This seems true--unless the 8k Samsung TVs really prove to have what these 4k flagships are missing and one is willing to shell out the cash to step up to that level. If this is the case, it's sad that Samsung has decided to make such a cash grab while many of us are trying to prepare for new consoles and video cards that will be released by the end of the year with HDMI 2.1 features.
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post #590 of 1444 Old 05-27-2020, 08:23 AM
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For me the key number is 30% between q9t vs the 8k. With no 8K content of note, I just can't justify paying a 30% 8k tax. But of course I'm coming from a 1080 set not 4k to 4k (which has to change your perspective)
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post #591 of 1444 Old 05-27-2020, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by esk1 View Post
I still believe this to be a 10-bit panel or at least a very good 8bit+frc panel. Its definitely "better" than the q80t panel and we still have march press release saying q80t is 8 bit with dithering and q90t is 10bit so that is the best most empirical evidence at this point. That being said the performance is what actually matters. I don't doubt the P series could be a better value, I don't think I've ever heard anyone call samsung a value brand. I would of bought a 2019 P series X if it wasn't for the massive banding issues that were noticeable in all types of content. I don't trust any of these TV manufacturers and we haven't had a sniff of a release date from Vizio. I think if your looking at the q90t as a gaming display you probably should wait a bit if you can.



I think I'm going to keep my delivery of my 75 q90t tomorrow. I'll still state that without perks at work discount I would have waited for the P series review myself. The ghosting thing is the only issue that I'm concerned about so I will be testing that as much as I can. I mainly play switch on the console which I think will benefit from game motion plus but I do have a xbox one x i never use lying around as I am primarily a pc gamer and this TV is more for the wife and movies/sports. I should also state I've been holding onto my ST60 plasma since 2011 and have a baby on the way in two weeks or so, so this is my last chance to replace that TV with a size upgrade till 2022 probably.
Can you explain more about game motion plus
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post #592 of 1444 Old 05-27-2020, 08:51 AM
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Can you explain more about game motion plus

I've never used it so KG or someone with the tv can explain it better. My understanding is its basic video and motion processing and you can dial back judder and motion to 0 if you want. The comment I've heard is that it makes a 30fps game feel more like 60fps but you cannot run it with VRR enabled. I hate the soap opera effect on video so I'm very curious how I like this mode. My understanding is input lag goes to about ~20ms which is still very good, though If your playing online shooters might be higher than you want.



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post #593 of 1444 Old 05-27-2020, 08:57 AM
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Can you explain more about game motion plus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_interpolation

Rings =

The Q90T can interpolate lower frame rate content up to 120Hz, commonly known as the 'Soap Opera Effect'. Generally speaking, this feature does a fairly good job and the picture looks good. We did notice some artifacts when interpolating 60fps content up to 120fps; however, it seems to be an issue that only happens with our test pattern and is unlikely to be noticeable in real content.
To use motion interpolation, set Picture Clarity to 'Custom', and adjust the Judder Reduction slider to '10' for 30fps content, or adjust the Blur Reduction to '10' for 60fps content.
If you want to use motion interpolation when gaming, it's essentially the same steps, but within the Game Motion Plus settings menu. Start by enabling Game Motion Plus, then set the Judder Reduction slider to '10' for games that run at 30fps natively, or set the Blur Reduction slider to '10' for games that normally run at 60fps.


This is a pretty good explanation.

I personally dont like it and some people here praised it way too much tbh. Im sensitive to the Soap Opera Effect so i would never enable it, not even on 30fps games.
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post #594 of 1444 Old 05-27-2020, 09:14 AM
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I guess this would explain why I don’t see any reverse ghosting on my q9fn in any setting... Why is the overshoot mitigated by game motion plus? Does this mean that this set really isn’t’ going to be viable due to being unable to use free sync and it’s something that can’t be mitigated with firmware?

Motion Plus -> Noise Reduction (the upper blur setting, language word selections are too different to match)
This has a effect on the Panel Overdrive setting if I would presume anything. It clearly makes a difference playing around with this setting on the "quickness" of pixel response. But it has other effecting variables. It doesn't only adjust overdrive it does some other motion smoothing effects also which are unwanted on the 2018 models and 2019 Models. Not to mention of the added latency to have Motion Plus/Game Motion Plus enabled.

(they are the same thing but Game Motion is Game Mode exclusive, to differentiate it from the regular high latency adding Motion Plus for regular TV usage)

It produces artefacts and "noise" having it enabled even if it makes pixel blur less noticeable meaning I usually prefer to keep it switched off or 0 in all situations. VRR/Freesync can't have this setting enabled, Motion Plus is always disabled with Freesync enabled. So you lose the overdrive adjuster using Freesync. Enabling Game Motion Plus you keep the Overdrive adjustment enabled but keep some other negative added processing in the same setting which you can't disable.
So having Game Motion enabled and having adjusted your Noise reduction setting you will have changed the default Overdrive behaviour of these TV's when you disable all processing that you get when using Freesync or disable Game Motion.

Last edited by Nighthog; 05-27-2020 at 09:21 AM.
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post #595 of 1444 Old 05-27-2020, 09:23 AM
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Stop posting this bulls**t, a TV doesnt have a GPU. You are just embarassing yourself.

TV's don't have a GPU...?

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TV's don't have a GPU...?


No
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post #597 of 1444 Old 05-27-2020, 09:54 AM
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Stop posting this bulls**t, a TV doesnt have a GPU. You are just embarassing yourself.
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TV's don't have a GPU...?
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No

Well then someone should tell LG's Reps. - because they were saying at CES this year that the new 2020 LG OLEDs have a "15% faster CPU", "50% faster GPU", "better upscaling", "beefed-up motion processing",...
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post #598 of 1444 Old 05-27-2020, 10:20 AM
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Why talk about LG in a Samsung thread. Lol.
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We were talking about TVs in general - it was said in here that TVs don't have GPUs

And according to one of the biggest TV manufacturers Reps. - their 2020 TVs do have a "50% faster GPU".

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post #600 of 1444 Old 05-27-2020, 10:37 AM
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Umm... If the comments are regarding the TV's software interface, the TV absolutely has a GPU. All smart TVs essentially run on mini computer SOCs +, just like an Apple TV, FireTV, an iPad/iPhone or an Android phone. Adreno, Mali, etc. are just some of the possible GPU portions of those processors that are running the TV and would absolutely impact performance of menu animations, etc.
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