Official Sony XBR4/5 Owners Thread(NO PRICE TALK) - Page 28 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #811 of 12026 Old 08-29-2007, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Alex the Great View Post

Unfortunately this not just a number. BTW XBR4/5 is known as X3000/3500 in Europe. As you can see new X5000/7000 going to wipe them out. Looks like Sony has a problems (or something is wrong) with 3000/XBR4 generation of products. Will be glad to be mistaken.

And that's exactly what the sales manager at my Best Buy told me!
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post #812 of 12026 Old 08-29-2007, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by gigaguy View Post

Could people stop with all the XBR8 9 10 talk. In the US the XBR4/5 are the current XBRs and will be here for probably a year. They were just released in the US this month and are even still rolling out the full XBR4/5 line.

There seems to be conflicting information on this.
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post #813 of 12026 Old 08-29-2007, 10:00 PM
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If there is an unusually high RoF with the xbr4/5's, would a good guess be sony does a quiet recall on the sets rather than extending the warranty, and pump out the next generation of 6/7's? Paying a premium for the latest and greatest is to be expected, but when the shelf life is less than 1 month, it's a bit crazy imo.

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post #814 of 12026 Old 08-29-2007, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex the Great View Post

Unfortunately this not just a number. BTW XBR4/5 is known as X3000/3500 in Europe. As you can see new X5000/7000 going to wipe them out. Looks like Sony has a problems (or something is wrong) with 3000/XBR4 generation of products. Will be glad to be mistaken….

Wishful thinking for the Sony haters.
I wish people would do just a little research before posting.

Japan X7000 series = US 70" XBR3 Series
Japan X5050 series = US XBR5 Series
Japan X5000 series = US XBR4 Series
Japan W5000 series = US W3000 Series
Japan V5000 series = US V3000 Series
Japan V3000 series = US S3000 Series

Please people... get your facts straight.
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post #815 of 12026 Old 08-29-2007, 10:48 PM
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right all the same, except their getting the 8th gen glass...just a slight difference to some i guess.
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post #816 of 12026 Old 08-30-2007, 04:14 AM
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whats the difference b/t cinemotion 1 and cinemotion 2?
wouldnt motion enchancer set on HIGH be better than STANDARD?

thanks!
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post #817 of 12026 Old 08-30-2007, 05:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by edwyun View Post

Tried to duplicate what you're talking about, but no banding that I can see on my 46XBR. Don't suppose you have a pic of the banding do you?

I can try to take a pic but that fact that both of you don't just makes me think it's my set. I first saw it when I had my PC hooked to the screen and put up a solid grey background. When I cycled through the backlight I noticed horizontal bands that would move up and down depending on the setting. It seemed really weird to me. Nothing like the banding I had on my Sharp 46D92. The only other time I noticed them during content was last weekend watching golf because it had a lot of panning.

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post #818 of 12026 Old 08-30-2007, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by jyeh74 View Post

whats the difference b/t cinemotion 1 and cinemotion 2?
wouldnt motion enchancer set on HIGH be better than STANDARD?

thanks!

From what I found yesterday it seems like cinemotion on auto2 brings back judder while auto1 gives you that smooth "motion flow" look that some like and some dislike. Motion enhancer on HIGH smooths things to the extreme (to me good for documentaries like Planet Earth) but creates artifacts in some situations. STANDARD is a better compromise for most. Personally I use cinemotion AUTO1 and motion enhancer on STANDARD.

So I just received my XBR4 (I had a LN-T4665F prior to that) and to those who compare the Samsungs to the Sonys my verdict is: Samsungs definitively get darker blacks but Sonys get better details. It's a trade-off to me, pick what you like the most.

With this comment I had a question. I tried several Blu-Rays and SD DVDs on my PS3 last night and when I hit the display button on my PS3 remote it always said that the TV was displaying 48Khz. Why is that?
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post #819 of 12026 Old 08-30-2007, 06:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broc27 View Post

From what I found yesterday it seems like cinemotion on auto2 brings back judder while auto1 gives you that smooth "motion flow" look that some like and some dislike. Motion enhancer on HIGH smooths things to the extreme (to me good for documentaries like Planet Earth) but creates artifacts in some situations. STANDARD is a better compromise for most. Personally I use cinemotion AUTO1 and motion enhancer on STANDARD.

So I just received my XBR4 (I had a LN-T4665F prior to that) and to those who compare the Samsungs to the Sonys my verdict is: Samsungs definitively get darker blacks but Sonys get better details. It's a trade-off to me, pick what you like the most.

With this comment I had a question. I tried several Blu-Rays and SD DVDs on my PS3 last night and when I hit the display button on my PS3 remote it always said that the TV was displaying 48Khz. Why is that?

LOL, 48khz is the audio stream

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post #820 of 12026 Old 08-30-2007, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by edwyun View Post

Check the other xbr4/5 calibration thread. i posted my updated settings there and it did get rid of the slight clouding i had. would guess it would depend on how bad your clouding is.

edwyun, I went to the xbr3 calibration thread and found a post by you with calibration suggestions. I couldn't find one for xbr4/5, unless you were referring to the first xbr4/5 thread that was cancelled due to price talk. In any event, would you please post your complete settings for reducing/getting rid of clouding. I'm a little on the fence about whether I've got a set that needs to be returned.

Right after posting the above paragraph, I found the Official Sony XBR4/5 Calibration Thread with your settings:

*****************

Although still being tweaked, here's my (Edwyun's) settings (blacks are good and any clouding issues gone)...

Backlight 4
Picture 90
Brightness 48
Color 52
Hue R2
Color Temp Warm2
Sharpness 20
Noise Red. Off
MPEG NR Off
DRC Mode Off
Black Corrector Off
Advanced C.E. Off
Gamma Off
Clear White Off
Color Space Std.
Live Color Off
White Balance:
R - gain 0
G - gain -14
B - gain -8
R - bias 4
G - bias 4
B - bias 8
Detail Enhancer Off
Edge Enhancer Off

VIDEO:
Motion Enhancer Std.
CineMotion Auto2

GENERAL:
Power Saving Low
Light Sensor Off

**************

The clouding seems to be dependant on the source material. I watched "The Road Warrior" last night and though the clouding didn't bleed through on the picture it did on the credits and all the long fades to black between scenes. Most of the time, the clouding is more like an uneven grey that wants to be all black. Is this what everyone is experiencing and calling "no clouding"? Or do sets exist that have a solid black transition signal and no bleeding clouds during black credits?

Thanks for your help.
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post #821 of 12026 Old 08-30-2007, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEA View Post

Wishful thinking for the Sony haters.
I wish people would do just a little research before posting.

Japan X7000 series = US 70" XBR3 Series
Japan X5050 series = US XBR5 Series
Japan X5000 series = US XBR4 Series
Japan W5000 series = US W3000 Series
Japan V5000 series = US V3000 Series
Japan V3000 series = US S3000 Series

Please people... get your facts straight.

Sorry ppl for setting this false alarm. I was deceived by fact that new equipment is typically originally announced in Japan and after then rolls out to US and Europe markets.

OK, this is to align facts even straighter:
Japan X7000 series = US 70" XBR3 Series = Europe X3500
Japan X5050 series = US XBR5 Series = Europe X3500
Japan X5000 series = US XBR4 Series = Europe X3000
Japan W5000 series = US W3000 Series = Europe W3000
Japan V5000 series = US V3000 Series = Europe V3000
Japan V3000 series = US S3000 Series = Europe TBD?

As for the 8 gen panels, according to (http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/do...9/sony1_08.jpg) we may expect new panels for 46” and 52” TVs. 40” probably still be manufactured on 7 gen facility.
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post #822 of 12026 Old 08-30-2007, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edwyun View Post

Yup, I hear it clicking too on my 46. Right after initial turn on. Wonder if it also happened on the XBR2/3?


It did... My XBR3 did that too

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post #823 of 12026 Old 08-30-2007, 08:25 AM
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I guess my earlier post #799 was contaminated or something, no one responded, did I post in the wrong place or am I just not one of the boys?
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post #824 of 12026 Old 08-30-2007, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex the Great View Post

Sorry ppl for setting this false alarm. I was deceived by fact that new equipment is typically originally announced in Japan and after then rolls out to US and Europe markets.

OK, this is to align facts even straighter:
Japan X7000 series = US 70" XBR3 Series = Europe X3500
Japan X5050 series = US XBR5 Series = Europe X3500
Japan X5000 series = US XBR4 Series = Europe X3000
Japan W5000 series = US W3000 Series = Europe W3000
Japan V5000 series = US V3000 Series = Europe V3000
Japan V3000 series = US S3000 Series = Europe TBD?

As for the 8 gen panels, according to (http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/do...9/sony1_08.jpg) we may expect new panels for 46 and 52 TVs. 40 probably still be manufactured on 7 gen facility.

So what implications does this have for the 46" and 52" inch XBR4/5s?
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post #825 of 12026 Old 08-30-2007, 08:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by lsedels View Post

So what implications does this have for the 46" and 52" inch XBR4/5s?

NOTHING! Can we keep this thread focused on the XBR4/5 only. Just because Sony Japan releases new sets doesn't mean we get them. I'm tried of everyone junking up the owners thread talking about different sets. Create another thread for that and go to town.

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post #826 of 12026 Old 08-30-2007, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by bpmurr View Post

NOTHING! Can we keep this thread focused on the XBR4/5 only. Just because Sony Japan releases new sets doesn't mean we get them. I'm tried of everyone junking up the owners thread talking about different sets. Create another thread for that and go to town.

Do you have a mission statement somewhere posted for this thread? I can appreciate your desire to exchange ideas with other owners. But you also have this entitled "Official SONY XBR4/5 Owners Thread". It stands to reason that potential owners are going to come here for owners' experiences in consideration for a possible purchase. And given the grief and pain that has been caused by the prior clouding/mura experiences in the SONY XBRs, it stands to reason that people are going to want to try to avoid that. This is the internet. You can't control everything about it. If there are open questions about the life of the product line, it seems to me to be an appropriate topic for an "Owner's Thread". I'm sure if there is no issue here, that soon enough ... this topic will die after some clarifications.

Larry
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post #827 of 12026 Old 08-30-2007, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razorcut View Post

...
*****************

Although still being tweaked, here's my (Edwyun's) settings (blacks are good and any clouding issues gone)...

Backlight 4
Picture 90
Brightness 48
Color 52
Hue R2
Color Temp Warm2
Sharpness 20
Noise Red. Off
MPEG NR Off
DRC Mode Off
Black Corrector Off
Advanced C.E. Off
Gamma Off
Clear White Off
Color Space Std.
Live Color Off
White Balance:
R - gain 0
G - gain -14
B - gain -8
R - bias 4
G - bias 4
B - bias 8
Detail Enhancer Off
Edge Enhancer Off

VIDEO:
Motion Enhancer Std.
CineMotion Auto2

GENERAL:
Power Saving Low
Light Sensor Off

I am using almost the same settings, except my W3000 doesn't have Motion Enhancer. This is the last week of my honeymoon with W3000 and I have to decide what to do next - upgrade to XBR4 (my initial intention and reason to post this question in this thread) or keep W3000.

Correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding is that only Motion Enhancer set to High stands for 120Hz and Standard stands for convectional 60 Hz. So if XBR4 is set to 60Hz and all other enhancers are Low or OFF does it mean that PQ wise it will perform exactly the same (or very close) as W3000?

This is the question #1 for me because I see that majority of XBR4 users prefer Standard-Low-Off settings.
Please convince me that I am wrong.
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post #828 of 12026 Old 08-30-2007, 09:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lsedels View Post

Do you have a mission statement somewhere posted for this thread? I can appreciate your desire to exchange ideas with other owners. But you also have this entitled "Official SONY XBR4/5 Owners Thread". It stands to reason that potential owners are going to come here for owners' experiences in consideration for a possible purchase. And given the grief and pain that has been caused by the prior clouding/mura experiences in the SONY XBRs, it stands to reason that people are going to want to try to avoid that. This is the internet. You can't control everything about it. If there are open questions about the life of the product line, it seems to me to be an appropriate topic for an "Owner's Thread". I'm sure if there is no issue here, that soon enough ... this topic will die after some clarifications.

Larry

Larry,

I don't have a mission statement posted but the last couple of pages have been nothing but reposts of the same model numbers and info. If people would just read they are Japan models not U.S. Most Japan spec models from other companies don't make it over to the U.S. What does this have to do with mura though? I have it on my XBR4 and have posted as such. I'm just tried of people junking up the thread with the same info over and over. I have no problem with XBR4/5 talk and the issues around them. This set is going to be out for awhile so we'll have plenty of things to talk about.

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post #829 of 12026 Old 08-30-2007, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ldhays View Post

I guess my earlier post #799 was contaminated or something, no one responded, did I post in the wrong place or am I just not one of the boys?

We're just putting you through your hazing period

Quote:
Originally Posted by ldhays View Post

Has anyone on this thread compared the XBR4 to the Samsung 81, if so I would really like to hear what they think of the 81 compared to the XBR4?

I do think there is a thread out there somewhere comparing the XBR4 and the 81 series, but I can't remember where I found it. However, there is a thread that is almost as relevant, comparing the Samsung 71 to the Samsung 81 series.

What you have to realize is that, on paper, the 81 is supposed to be superior to the Sony and it's using newer technology. Thus, most people are comparing the 71 to the XBR4s and assuming the 81 series will be head and shoulders above both of them. However, in this thread (
https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=897543 ) you'll see that the owner of both sets ended up returning the 81 because, despite it's jaw-dropping blacks with there was little-to-no picture, in the majority of the viewing the 81 didn't appear to have the color accuracy and picture clarity of the 71. Or at the very least, it wasn't head and shoulders above it enough to justify the price premium that comes with the 81.

So far, the general concensus I've found is that many people are choosing the XBR4 over the 71 based on PQ, but saying that the 71s have better blacks. The tradeoff for the better blacks is the glossy screen, so it depends on your viewing environment. Also, if you look somewhere in that thread you'll see that all 3 of these sets have Mura issues whether they be very minimal or very pronounced, but when the LED feature is enabled on the 81 series it completely vanishes. So if that is a question mark for you then keep that in mind.

Ultimately I just suggest you see all three yourself and make your decision that way.

Brandon
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post #830 of 12026 Old 08-30-2007, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by ldhays View Post

I guess my earlier post #799 was contaminated or something, no one responded, did I post in the wrong place or am I just not one of the boys?

I read your post and did not respond because I have not compared the XBR4/5s with the Samsung 81, maybe that's the reason nobody else has. That is what you were asking if I remember right. Your post isn't contaminated, it's just less than 24 hours old and this is a fast moving thread and it's likely to not be seen by people who tend to read the newer parts of the thread (last page or so). People here are very helpful and don't exclude anybody because they are not "one of the boys". If nobody has compared the two as you ask in your original post don't expect replies saying "no I haven't compared the two", it only adds clutter to an already rapidly expanding post.
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post #831 of 12026 Old 08-30-2007, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by OhioLefty View Post

I read your post and did not respond because I have not compared the XBR4/5s with the Samsung 81, maybe that's the reason nobody else has. That is what you were asking if I remember right. Your post isn't contaminated, it's just less than 24 hours old and this is a fast moving thread and it's likely to not be seen by people who tend to read the newer parts of the thread (last page or so). People here are very helpful and don't exclude anybody because they are not "one of the boys". If nobody has compared the two as you ask in your original post don't expect replies saying "no I haven't compared the two", it only adds clutter to an already rapidly expanding post.

Very true. Often when new panels arrive late - a post can be bumped down to oblivion easily and lost since it may be rare during the initial weeks to find them together to compare. It's not that anyone is ignoring but damn they are so new that it's challenging to find them together to help you for now.

Example - Viewed the 71 and XBR4 Sunday and no 81 yet. Both the 71 and XBR4 were excellent but the fact is they were so far apart on that wall it was next to impossible to do a side by side direct comparison. They both appeared to be rid of the LCD haze and excellent colors.

I don't see how one loses either way and personally I may choose the XBR4 if they built them larger and i were in the market because of the matte screen due to my viewing environment even though the 71 series at times disguises the reflections with head on viewing. They were both top of the class and surpassed the out of the box Pio 5080 I saw up on the Wall at BB IMO and experience knowing full well it must look better than the dimness I saw as the Samsung 5084 PDP outdid it on that day and place. Let's see how long it takes for the Kuro gang to come to this defense. Sorry, I have nothing against it and I have respect for Pio but found the 5080 up on that wall disappointing after the feedback read on this forum. The XBR4, 71, 81 and 5084 can be believed to be better or equal and not be a crime can't it? We are not required to follow a Pied Piper are we when it comes to testimonial observations are we?

They are all excellent - choose your preference not the herd's! Yes - we need an INDEPENDENT SHOOTOUT of that Kuro by someone without the Bias factor - but unlikely on this forum.

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post #832 of 12026 Old 08-30-2007, 10:55 AM
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^^^
I agree the matte vs glossy stirs the masses here. Without question the matte screen is one LCD's greatest strengths. Of course everything is subjective but I prefer the XBR4 over the 5 because of the glossy bezel on the 5. This glossy stuff deters with reflections.

Matte screen with the XBR is a huge advantage over the Sammy 71's. IMO

These are just my opinions.
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post #833 of 12026 Old 08-30-2007, 12:16 PM
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My shipment on my KDL-52XBR4 got bumped back 'til 09/16/2007 from CDW.

Sony's website now states: "Pre-sale item available on or about 09/30/2007."

What is going on with this TV?!
Are the rumors true about them having issues with this set?
Or is it the "new" LCD panel factory cutover causing the problems?

I'm getting sick of waiting for this TV...seeing that I ordered it 07/29/2007
I sat the searching the Best Buy local store availability and saw the a store in Chicago and one in Montgomery each show one TV in stock. I bet if I call, it's BS.

AHHHHHHHHH! And today is the start of NCAA Football.
Sony, your starting to piss me off!

John

.
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post #834 of 12026 Old 08-30-2007, 12:38 PM
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Hey John, I know you saved a good chunk of change on your set, but I ordered one from a forum sponsor, Cleveland Plasma on Monday, and it's in Boston waiting for the paperwork to catch up with it. Should be having it delivered tomorrow morning.
If the set goes sour, it will get replaced with what we assume to be an 8g. So for me, the little risk there is, has been alleviated with warranty coverage.

Good luck to you man. I know your post was the one that got me off the fence and into high gear.

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post #835 of 12026 Old 08-30-2007, 01:19 PM
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Quote:


The clouding seems to be dependant on the source material. I watched "The Road Warrior" last night and though the clouding didn't bleed through on the picture it did on the credits and all the long fades to black between scenes. Most of the time, the clouding is more like an uneven grey that wants to be all black. Is this what everyone is experiencing and calling "no clouding"? Or do sets exist that have a solid black transition signal and no bleeding clouds during black credits?

From what you're describing, the clouding may be worse on your set than on my 46XBR4. With the settings I posted (and you reposted), all the supposed clouds went away irrespective of source material, including SD with black bars on the sides and/or top of the screen.
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post #836 of 12026 Old 08-30-2007, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by twilleyj View Post

My shipment on my KDL-52XBR4 got bumped back 'til 09/16/2007 from CDW.

Sony's website now states: "Pre-sale item available on or about 09/30/2007."

What is going on with this TV?!
Are the rumors true about them having issues with this set?
Or is it the "new" LCD panel factory cutover causing the problems?

I'm getting sick of waiting for this TV...seeing that I ordered it 07/29/2007
I sat the searching the Best Buy local store availability and saw the a store in Chicago and one in Montgomery each show one TV in stock. I bet if I call, it's BS.

AHHHHHHHHH! And today is the start of NCAA Football.
Sony, your starting to piss me off!

John

The KDL-52XBR4 was originally stated to be available by SONY in US on 8/31. Consider any TVs that have been found before then a blessing. Don't know why you would have ordered on 7/29. As for any issues, I don't know ... the delay till 9/30 and the rumor I heard from my BB sales manager are beginning to get me concerned, but right now I must assume they are rumors until I hear otherwise. It's hard to believe that SONY would release a TV and then immediately pull it.
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post #837 of 12026 Old 08-30-2007, 01:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twilleyj View Post

My shipment on my KDL-52XBR4 got bumped back 'til 09/16/2007 from CDW.

Sony's website now states: "Pre-sale item available on or about 09/30/2007."

What is going on with this TV?!
Are the rumors true about them having issues with this set?
Or is it the "new" LCD panel factory cutover causing the problems?

I'm getting sick of waiting for this TV...seeing that I ordered it 07/29/2007
I sat the searching the Best Buy local store availability and saw the a store in Chicago and one in Montgomery each show one TV in stock. I bet if I call, it's BS.

AHHHHHHHHH! And today is the start of NCAA Football.
Sony, your starting to piss me off!

John

It seems like most of their product is going to retailers and not the official site first. It probably would piss off their retail clients if they started selling direct first.

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post #838 of 12026 Old 08-30-2007, 01:49 PM
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Does anyone know what video processor chip Sony is using in the XBR4/XBR5 to process (de-interlace and upconvert) 480i sources? The specs says "BRAVIA Engine PRO Full Digital Video Processor". However, this appears to be some fancy marketing term.

Is it a Faroudja or Reon? Or is it some Sony propriety video processor?

Thanks.

Still Learning
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post #839 of 12026 Old 08-30-2007, 01:59 PM
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It seems all the best quotes on flat screens are from dealers on the east coast. I live in Southern California and I don't want my TV to travel by truck that far. Any info on west coast online dealers?

As for the xbr4....I love the pic...hate the design. What if you chip the glass? Or is it glass? Regardless, I don't like it. I think the casing for the W3000 looks best.
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post #840 of 12026 Old 08-30-2007, 02:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drake24 View Post

It seems all the best quotes on flat screens are from dealers on the east coast. I live in Southern California and I don't want my TV to travel by truck that far. Any info on west coast online dealers?

As for the xbr4....I love the pic...hate the design. What if you chip the glass? Or is it glass? Regardless, I don't like it. I think the casing for the W3000 looks best.

It seems more like clear plastic to me.

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