Official Samsung LNT-xx71f Owners Thread - Page 616 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #18451 of 28882 Old 02-08-2008, 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted by clau View Post

No one can come up with an "actual" contrast ratio by calculations and not by measurements, and certainly there is no way a contrast ratio of 8K can be obtained even by the wildest calculations.

I agree that 8,000:1 is not static CR. There's just no way. But can you clarify what you stated in bold? Did you mean that it can't be measured by calculations and also that it can't be measured by measurements? Or that it can't be measured by calculations but can only be measured by measurements. What I'm wondering is if there's no way to measure it, how did they determine the 1,500:1 cr? I think the only reason that it can not truly be accurately measurable is because of ambient reflection of light from the set. But if you could absorb all reflecting light (somehow), couldn't you achieve an accurate measurement of CR with a light meter?

LN-T4671F - FW: 2003.2
DV-980H - FW: 0B-0903
6620NP - FW: 2.10
N081URAY-Y37 - FW: 0.0
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post #18452 of 28882 Old 02-08-2008, 11:13 PM
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I hate to ask this, but how are you guys looking at this manual? i click on the link, and i see the file, i even downloaded the mega manager, but i cant seem to find or figure out how to look at the manual.
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post #18453 of 28882 Old 02-08-2008, 11:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dEEahn20 View Post

I agree that 8,000:1 is not static CR. There's just no way. But can you clarify what you stated in bold? Did you mean that it can't be measured by calculations and also that it can't be measured by measurements? Or that it can't be measured by calculations but can only be measured by measurements. What I'm wondering is if there's no way to measure it, how did they determine the 1,500:1 cr? I think the only reason that it can not truly be accurately measurable is because of ambient reflection of light from the set. But if you could absorb all reflecting light (somehow), couldn't you achieve an accurate measurement of CR with a light meter?

What I meant is that it is a strange notion to have an ACTUAL contrast ratio that is not arrived by MEASUREMENTS but by CALCULATIONS. The word ACTUAL strongly implies empirical or measured. If you cannot measure it, then it not an actual number.

Of course static contrast can be measured at the 1,500 level, and even at the 8K level. I don't know what is the largest contrast measurable, but it has to be much higher than 8K.

CLau
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post #18454 of 28882 Old 02-09-2008, 12:03 AM
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The 6' power cord on my 4671 was just not long enough to reach my power conditioner device and I didn't want to use an extension cord because I only needed an extra 3'. I was frustrated that Samsung didn't think some people might mount this on a wall and would need a longer cord to reach an outlet. Or at the very least, sell a longer cord as an accessory.

I had hard time finding a place that sells a longer cord... until this place. I just received it and it fits perfectly. They sell a 10' and a 14'. And they even have a left angle version if you need to run the cord off towards the left of the TV.

It's funny how something as simple as the proper cord can make a great TV more enjoyable.
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post #18455 of 28882 Old 02-09-2008, 01:05 AM
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My so called technician dictated to Samsung my MBE "problem" could not be fixed. Their solution,......... A replacement TV, but guess what. Samsung does not have any 5271F. will not be in stock till March!!! So they upgraded me to a brand new 5281F .It has been a swell ride fellas. I hope all those problems are solved

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post #18456 of 28882 Old 02-09-2008, 01:37 AM
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Damm they upgraded you to a 5281? I better start calling and complaining about my stuttering set. Who did you speak to at Samsung to get the replacement?
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post #18457 of 28882 Old 02-09-2008, 01:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geronimo.USMC View Post

My so called technician dictated to Samsung my MBE "problem" could not be fixed. Their solution,......... A replacement TV, but guess what. Samsung does not have any 5271F. will not be in stock till March!!! So they upgraded me to a brand new 5281F .It has been a swell ride fellas. I hope all those problems are solved

Just dead-solid bitchin' for you! Alas, now you'll ride off into the sunset, ne'er to return to our thread! Good Luck!!

IMPORTANT!!! Perhaps this is why the prices have inflated! None till March, none shipping now, limited supplies on hand at retailers spells only one thing.... rising cost.

BTW, you had MBE everywhere, right? All ports (HDMI 1-3), all sources?
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post #18458 of 28882 Old 02-09-2008, 02:30 AM
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Originally Posted by TiVoHD View Post

Mine started just like what I saw in your picture. And now I have a line stretching from top to bottom that Samsung doesn't want to fix. Don't bother messing with Samsung. Exchange your TV through Amazon before your return period runs out.

TiVo, maybe you should ask them to send you another tech
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post #18459 of 28882 Old 02-09-2008, 02:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geronimo.USMC View Post

My so called technician dictated to Samsung my MBE "problem" could not be fixed. Their solution,......... A replacement TV, but guess what. Samsung does not have any 5271F. will not be in stock till March!!! So they upgraded me to a brand new 5281F .It has been a swell ride fellas. I hope all those problems are solved

Speaking of 5281, don't know if you guys read this.....shootout between the Sammy and Pioneer Elite.

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/fea...-round-ii.html
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post #18460 of 28882 Old 02-09-2008, 03:05 AM
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Originally Posted by wesrodz View Post

I ordered the 40" January 9th and received an August build with 1007 firmware...I have been reluctant to return...will amazon send another set out to me before they receive the old set? I would hate to be with out a television for a week and a half (thats how long it took to receive the original set) do you think I should call samsung for a new set?

I see stutter and TBE with AMP on on all sources. I generally keep if off.

other than the stutter and TBE, it is an incredible set.

so what should i do?

Got my 4671 on Jan third with 1009. Had face breakup effect during fast action. Immediately upgraded to 1013.1 which fixed the problem. I have yet to see stutter on a proven good signal. The one major stutter I had was with 50 MPH winds buffeting the antenna and diretly correlated to gusts. fantastic picture on the Today show fro DIRECTV. Remote feeds are sometimes junk, GIGO. Have yet to see stutter with the Panasonic BD30, but only have watched a few DVDs

Location: Southern Maine
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post #18461 of 28882 Old 02-09-2008, 05:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metal83 View Post

I hate to ask this, but how are you guys looking at this manual? i click on the link, and i see the file, i even downloaded the mega manager, but i cant seem to find or figure out how to look at the manual.

Near the top of the sceen to the right of the big word MEGAUPLOAD it says please enter (then there are 3 letters) here. Enter the 3 letters, click on download and underneath that a countdown starts from 45 seconds. After that you can choose free download.

Thanks Prestiege!
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post #18462 of 28882 Old 02-09-2008, 05:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cybolt View Post

Speaking of 5281, don't know if you guys read this.....shootout between the Sammy and Pioneer Elite.

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/fea...-round-ii.html

Read the review and all I can figure is that the Pio Kuro requires an ISF Calibration to bring out it's best as they do not make a single mention of the Kuro's Dim and Dull looking PQ that is repeatedly reported on this forum by many - in comparing them with 71 series five times the damn Kuro appears Dim and Dull looking and weaker blacks running adjacent the Kuro Demo feed.

Could there be a bias by the reviewers that have always had plasma on the throne and they deem blacks as more important than the admitted better contrast shadow details of the 81? How are the deeper blacks more important than DETAIL? To me deep blacks without details = Crush.

Pio has always been at the lead with the VP abilities and I want to llike the Kuro but I simply have not seen one replicate the PQ that gets Raves on the PDP forum threads. To bad they don't have a roaming CES Show like the auto shows where we can go see the best of the best fully calibrated to see the potential rather than out of the box in-store settings.

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post #18463 of 28882 Old 02-09-2008, 06:16 AM
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Does stutter develop over time or does a set either have it or not have it? I ask because I recently got the 4671 (fw 2004) and had zero stutter. However, I noticed this morning that almost all of my HD channels are exhibiting stutter. The only exceptions are ESPN, ESPN2 and Food Network and even Food has a very slight stutter. Is it possible that the signals are just bad this morning or is my set developing stutter?
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post #18464 of 28882 Old 02-09-2008, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by wesrodz View Post

You know, thats what I thought. I am hoping for a real fix from Samsung. Other than the stutter and tbe, the set is perfect.

I'm kind of in the same boat, i've got a Sept 07 build not sure which FW, i've seen no MBE, the only TBE i've seen is during a superbowl highlight reel on one of my local affiliats, I do get Sutter with AMP on sometimes, mostly on Lost or other ABC shows, but i didn't buy this TV for AMP, in fact i only ended up with the '71 because the '61 was out of stock, so when AMP works well it's a bonus for me.

Except for limited stutter, and that once instance of TBE, i've had no problems, so i'm very reluctant to upgrade the firmware. or to return the TV and try and get a newer build. I didn't spend $3+ Grand on this TV like some people did, only spent $1699, but at this time of year thats a good chunk of change, and i want to have spent the money the best way possible. but i also don't want to return this set, only to get into the issues that others have had with the newer builds.

I think, that i'm just going to leave it as is for now. unless it develops major problems.
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post #18465 of 28882 Old 02-09-2008, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leanto25 View Post

Got my 4671 on Jan third with 1009. Had face breakup effect during fast action. Immediately upgraded to 1013.1 which fixed the problem. I have yet to see stutter on a proven good signal. The one major stutter I had was with 50 MPH winds buffeting the antenna and diretly correlated to gusts. fantastic picture on the Today show fro DIRECTV. Remote feeds are sometimes junk, GIGO. Have yet to see stutter with the Panasonic BD30, but only have watched a few DVDs

Please watch Lost or October Road or just about any other ABC nighttime show and then report back. That seems to be a proven way to reproduce stutter.

Samsung 4671F with 1013.1 - Hoping for 1014.

"I am not sure what is going to happen after sometime as I have never seen tomorrow." - Dylan D, Samsung Tier 1 Tech Support
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post #18466 of 28882 Old 02-09-2008, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by usmaak View Post

Please watch Lost or October Road or just about any other ABC nighttime show and then report back. That seems to be a proven way to reproduce stutter.

i thought i was mad thinking that it only happened to me on ABC
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post #18467 of 28882 Old 02-09-2008, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firon View Post

All sets have trouble with stutter, so returning it for that is not a good idea. Even TBE is still an issue with the 200x TVs.


Well, not exactly all. I don't have stutter.
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post #18468 of 28882 Old 02-09-2008, 08:46 AM
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I posted the below in another 71 series thread and was asked to post it here as well...

Hey guys,

I got to calibrate two Samsung 71 series LCD flat panels today; the LN-T5271F and the LN-T4671. I must say that I am really impressed with these after calibration and that they totally blew away my preconceived expectations. I really didn't think these sets would perform all that great, but boy was I wrong.

Test Equipment Used:
PhotoResearch PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Sencore VP-403 Calibration Generator
ColorFacts 7.0 Pro Software Suit


Evaluation Material Viewed:
Comcast HD cable
Samsung BluRay
-Casino Royal
-Harry Potter (OOTP)
Component SD-DVD
-5th Element


When I first saw the image on the LN-T4671F I was not impressed and I was a little doubtful that the set would calibrated out all that well, but I went ahead and started working...

The first thing I did was take pre-calibration readings of greyscale, gamma, black level, white level, and chromacity (color gamut). Once I was finished with that, I popped into the service menu and was quite happy to see that the parameters are almost identical to the LN-Txx81F service menu. At this point my expectations started to increase as I have had great results on the 81’s (LINK).

Here is the precalibration gamma response. As you can observe, the precal gamma does not follow the correct curve nor does it meet the industry standard of falling between 2.2 - 2.5. The out of box gamma will result in a washed out image that lacks depth and realism.



To begin the calibration, I roughly dialed in black and white level and then established a baseline gamma. It seems that the 71's really like to sit at a gamma of around 2.5, but that they will play nice anywhere between about 2.2 ~ 2.55.



I had heard that the 71 series Samsungs could not run a natural gamma response. So I was pleased to see that I was able to get an exquisite and natural gamma out of both units.

Next I proceeded to dial in saturation and chromacity. In all honesty, the color gamut wasn't really all that bad out of box and this can be observed in the first gamut plot. Phase (tint) for magenta, cyan, and yellow was off a little. With the state of manufacturers not adhering to the Rec 709 gamut and blatantly abusing it, I was rather pleased to see that none of the colors were well outside the gamut boundaries. However, after calibration, I was very happy to see that I was able to get the colors even better. Magenta, cyan, and yellow came out nearly perfectly and all with only a minor sacrifice to the position of blue.



Furthermore, color gamut is only one aspect that needs attention with respect to color. The luminance (brightness) of the colors also needs to be properly adjusted and not all displays have this ability. Below are two tables of color luminance; one is at 100% output and the other is at 80% output. In each table the "W" denotes the actual luminance of white in foot lamberts. The left column is the calculated ideal luminance with respect to the actual white luminance. The second column is the measured luminance for each color as seen by my PR-650.



I have heard mentioned that the 71 series Samsung's are not capable of accurately displaying proper luminance for all colors. As can be observed this is not correct. The tables above are from the LN-T4671F, but both units performed similarly well. The data gathered shows that these sets do have excellent color luma response when compared to the ideal luma level.

Furthermore, I took readings at both 100% output and at 80% output to test for linearity in color with respect to brightness. The measurements prove that these sets do have linear saturation with respect to output so the amount of color does not change with brightness. It should also be noted that the color gamut did not change with respect to luma levels either… GREAT

After color, I moved to greyscale and the results can be seen below.



As is common these days, the LN-T4671F was extremely cool (blue) out of the box with an average color temperature of over 11,000 K. After calibration however, the greyscale came right into line with an average temp of right around 6,500 K, just where it should be.



And above are the results for delta "E" before and after calibration. DE is essentially a more precise way to measure error (RMS error), and in this case error to grey tracking.

As can be observed, before calibration the DE was running around 45 across the entire luminance range. DE of 10 or less is considered ideal for a digital display so obviously 45 is way too high. But after calibration the DE came out really well averaging less than 3 at all luminance levels. You may observe that at 10 IRE the DE was measured at 38.5, but the window looked grey to me and there was a little ambient light in the room. At 10 IRE it can be difficult to get a good reading with any ambient light because 10 IRE is just so dim. Therefore, the DE reading for 10 IRE should be taken with a grain of salt because it probably isn't accurate anyway.

And finally for greyscale here are the plots for color tracking. As can be seen, out of box there was so much blue that it was off the chart. There was also not enough red in the grey. After calibration all three colors combined brilliantly to make D65 grey.



I went back and touched up grayscale, black level, white level, gamma, and color and found that there was some interactions between settings. This was pretty easy to take care of with just one more calibration iteration.

Finally we got to view some material. Both the LN-T5271F and the LN-T4671 looked pretty much the same, but I calibrated the 46” unit for a dark room environment and the 52” unit to a mixed ambient light environment. I did more watching on the 46”.

BluRay and HD cable looked phenomenal. Colors were realistic and very accurate looking. Black level was decent and acceptable though I’ve seen better. 480p DVD through component looked great too. I thought the display's scaling was really quite good for an internal scaler. I also didn’t see any deinterlacing errors when watching 1080i through Comcast cable. I did not watch any 480i as the cable box on hand could only output one resolution and was set to 1080i.

The dark scenes in Harry Potter OOTP were quite nice even in a dark room (ambient light can help hid glowing black levels). I always wish black level were better on most digital displays so… Colors, detail, and sharpness were also great in Casino Royal and Harry Potter.

Comparing the 71 series Samsungs to the 81 series… I think the 81’s have better black level and slightly better color. However, the 71’s have slightly better gamma and better grey tracking. Honestly, I’d be thrilled with either unit and the differences between the two are not great. For my money I’d choose the 71 series over the 81 because the 71’s cost less and both designs are capable of similarly excellent image quality.

If you have any questions feel free to email [email protected] Please note, it is a well established fact that coping service menu values from any given unit into another will not provide an improved image. Every unit needs its own calibration so getting my service menu values and putting them into your service menu will not help your TV's picture and will probably hurt it. Therefore, any emails asking for service menu values will be deleted and not read.

Happy viewing

craigr

Precision Video Calibration Craig Rounds
JETI Specbos 1211 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Laboratory Grade Colorimeter
Murideo Fresco Six-G & Six-A HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator / Analyzer
LightSpace XPS Pro & ChromaPure Pro Color Calibration Software
www.CIR-Engineering.com - [email protected]
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post #18469 of 28882 Old 02-09-2008, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firon View Post

All sets have trouble with stutter, so returning it for that is not a good idea. Even TBE is still an issue with the 200x TVs.

I've seen tbe 2 times 4 months. My set gets "stutter" ONLY on certain shows/channels. Never see it on a good hd broadcast (premiums, UHD, HDTH, SCI etc). NEVER see it on a blu ray, and very very rarely on a SD dvd.

Mine is a 2002 (no upgrade) Oct07 set. The good far outweighs the bad imho.

------------
5271 2002/Oct07 rocks for me.
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post #18470 of 28882 Old 02-09-2008, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geronimo.USMC View Post

My so called technician dictated to Samsung my MBE "problem" could not be fixed. Their solution,......... A replacement TV, but guess what. Samsung does not have any 5271F. will not be in stock till March!!! So they upgraded me to a brand new 5281F .It has been a swell ride fellas. I hope all those problems are solved

I'm sorry guys, i try to keep up with this thread, but what is MBE?

Thanks,

Wes
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post #18471 of 28882 Old 02-09-2008, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wesrodz View Post

I'm sorry guys, i try to keep up with this thread, but what is MBE?

Thanks,

Wes

MBE is Mini Blind Effect, check out the FAQ for explaination and I believe there are pics posted.

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post #18472 of 28882 Old 02-09-2008, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geronimo.USMC View Post

My so called technician dictated to Samsung my MBE "problem" could not be fixed. Their solution,......... A replacement TV, but guess what. Samsung does not have any 5271F. will not be in stock till March!!! So they upgraded me to a brand new 5281F .It has been a swell ride fellas. I hope all those problems are solved

wow thats shocking that they would actually do that. Hope you have better luck with that set, hope it doesnt have as many issues.
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post #18473 of 28882 Old 02-09-2008, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geronimo.USMC View Post

My so called technician dictated to Samsung my MBE "problem" could not be fixed. Their solution,......... A replacement TV, but guess what. Samsung does not have any 5271F. will not be in stock till March!!! So they upgraded me to a brand new 5281F .It has been a swell ride fellas. I hope all those problems are solved

Hmmm, do you want a 5281? Maybe should have held out for a 6 or 7 series. I haven't been looking at the 81 thread lately to see if their issues are being resolved, but just wanted to give you a possible heads up on that.

So what does this mean? Could they be thinking they will have a fix in March to tbe/stutter and don't want to ship anymore until they can get that resolved?

52" Samsung 750, finally satisfaction
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post #18474 of 28882 Old 02-09-2008, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leanto25 View Post

Got my 4671 on Jan third with 1009. Had face breakup effect during fast action. Immediately upgraded to 1013.1 which fixed the problem. I have yet to see stutter on a proven good signal. The one major stutter I had was with 50 MPH winds buffeting the antenna and diretly correlated to gusts. fantastic picture on the Today show fro DIRECTV. Remote feeds are sometimes junk, GIGO. Have yet to see stutter with the Panasonic BD30, but only have watched a few DVDs

Face breakup....are you talking about smear/out of focus, or just a break up of the picture as in pixelation.

52" Samsung 750, finally satisfaction
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post #18475 of 28882 Old 02-09-2008, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Pickwaddy View Post

Does stutter develop over time or does a set either have it or not have it? I ask because I recently got the 4671 (fw 2004) and had zero stutter. However, I noticed this morning that almost all of my HD channels are exhibiting stutter. The only exceptions are ESPN, ESPN2 and Food Network and even Food has a very slight stutter. Is it possible that the signals are just bad this morning or is my set developing stutter?

It took me a while before I noticed it happening. Mostly because I had AMP off to avoid TBE. Once I started using it (AMP) I started getting stutter. Really don't know what to tell you, but what provider do you have, and did you originally have a lower fw and update to 2004?

52" Samsung 750, finally satisfaction
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post #18476 of 28882 Old 02-09-2008, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by tinnot View Post

Near the top of the sceen to the right of the big word MEGAUPLOAD it says please enter (then there are 3 letters) here. Enter the 3 letters, click on download and underneath that a countdown starts from 45 seconds. After that you can choose free download.

Thanks Prestiege!

Oh ok great, thanks. I have never used that site before so wasnt sure what to do. but i'm all set now, i got it, thanks again.
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post #18477 of 28882 Old 02-09-2008, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pickwaddy View Post

Does stutter develop over time or does a set either have it or not have it? I ask because I recently got the 4671 (fw 2004) and had zero stutter. However, I noticed this morning that almost all of my HD channels are exhibiting stutter. The only exceptions are ESPN, ESPN2 and Food Network and even Food has a very slight stutter. Is it possible that the signals are just bad this morning or is my set developing stutter?

It's not like catching a cold...there just happens to be some anomaly in the source feed today that AMP will not play nice with.
Problems on all levels of AMP?

all is good....LNT4671 1005/1001 SQ01 w/old PS3 80G,Oppo 83 & 2400ES into Mirage OS3FS
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post #18478 of 28882 Old 02-09-2008, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by cybolt View Post

Just dead-solid bitchin' for you! Alas, now you'll ride off into the sunset, ne'er to return to our thread! Good Luck!!

IMPORTANT!!! Perhaps this is why the prices have inflated! None till March, none shipping now, limited supplies on hand at retailers spells only one thing.... rising cost.

BTW, you had MBE everywhere, right? All ports (HDMI 1-3), all sources?

Yes all inputs, all sources.

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post #18479 of 28882 Old 02-09-2008, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by DjPiLL View Post

Damm they upgraded you to a 5281? I better start calling and complaining about my stuttering set. Who did you speak to at Samsung to get the replacement?

It is actually the technicians call.

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post #18480 of 28882 Old 02-09-2008, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by studdad View Post

Hmmm, do you want a 5281? Maybe should have held out for a 6 or 7 series. I haven't been looking at the 81 thread lately to see if their issues are being resolved, but just wanted to give you a possible heads up on that.

So what does this mean? Could they be thinking they will have a fix in March to tbe/stutter and don't want to ship anymore until they can get that resolved?

I want a 6 or 7, but I doubt they would get me one since the 71f will probably be in stock before they released those so I went for the 81.

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