Official Samsung 71series calibration thread - Page 44 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1291 of 1365 Old 06-02-2008, 11:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post

I am not targeting any particular look. All I am saying is that if you take those calibrated settings and decrease color it looks better and more natural to me. When other people start talking about "eyeballing" something, I usually stop reading, but that's exactly what I'm saying here. Leave it at 46, or go to whatever number is believable to your eyes. To mine, and on my TV with my sources, 37 looks about right.

Ah, I see. I was just speculating that a theater-going lifestyle may have influenced your idea of what looks natural on a screen.

By the way, the new settings are nice. It seems to have reduced the green/cyan hues I was seeing in shadows, and gotten rid of the little bit of black crush I was experiencing. It seems slightly less poppy, but I'm sure that was just the black crush playing tricks on my eyes.

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post #1292 of 1365 Old 06-04-2008, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post

Not a lot different from others I have posted, but there's a twist.

I do not like the amount of color I'm getting from the Accupel settings. I do like how Accupel helps me use the My Color Control white setting to adjust where the secondaries go. And since the wide color gamut puts cyan closer to where Accupel says to put it, I use wide. (Anyway, I have run full calibrations with standard and wide and done A/B comparisons, and there isn't any visible difference as far as I could tell.)

I have settings for Movie and for Standard. For both CR was a little over 1300:1 and gamma was ~2.2 according to ColorHCFR. The settings were actually a product of CalMAN.

There are some differences between ColorHCFR and CalMAN and I'll try to resolve them before I leave you guys for my in-transit LN 46A750 that Samsung has offered to exchange for my TV.

Here are the settings:

Movie
c 90
b 44
s 50
c 46
t 48/52

warm1
wide

white balance
ro 16
go 15
bo 12
rg 19
gg 11
bg 30

my color control blue 30, white 16

For Standard:

same c, b, s, c, t as Movie

color temp normal
wide

white balance
ro 15
go 14
bo 13
rg 30
gg 13
bg 8

MCC white 15 and blue 30 (although on Standard, I don't think the blue slider does anything. In fact the fact that these sliders don't do anything is why Samsung is exchanging ... not TBE or stutter ... although I have TBE some even after fw2004)

For both, HDMI black is normal. None of the other enhancements are on (edge, dyn cont, black adj) other than I always leave noise reduction on Auto.

What's the twist I mentioned? Here it is. At least this is what I did. I turned the main Color control down to 37. To me colors look natural there. I ran a calibration measurement set at 37 and the dE values were way up. I don't care. The grayscale was still as good as I can get it. At 46 it is just too much color, at least to my eyes on my TV. Try for yourself and see where it looks right to you.

These aren't the best measured settings I have found, but they are the best looking settings (IMO).


wow, interesting that you are getting the 750! I'd love to see what you get for the CR! Is it really better or not? I guess the spyder experiment won't work now (unless I get the 750 too ).

I wonder why you are still going for the altered secondaries after what was said above though??

Yeah, it did seem to me that setting color down around 39-40 instead of the 44+ that everyone has been using makes the colorhcrf saturation charts look better, matches closer to what PC mode (which locks the color control) does and seems closer to the saturation levels (at least for skin) that my LUT program on my 244T gave (although that also made some colors seem mroe saturated than color level 37 would).
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post #1293 of 1365 Old 06-04-2008, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lawd View Post

Pause on a few examples of a bright blue sky and switch between wide and Auto ... I find the wide saturates the sky a lot more, sometimes bordering on unnatural.

The Narnia trailer on PS3 has some blue sky.

That makes sense, since wide basically shifts REC 709/601 Cyan into a color that is hyper-saturated beyond their gamuts.
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post #1294 of 1365 Old 06-04-2008, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Raptor007 View Post

Thanks! I appreciate you doing a Standard mode setting with Normal color temperature, too. I'll try this out when I get home.

I'll probably end up leaving the color saturation at the calibrated value though; I like having lots of color. But I've noticed even good movie theaters tend to show a lot less saturation than what I'd prefer to see. Maybe you're trying to get yours closer to that look?

Well how they look in the theater is how the director intended. Also, if you look at your skin and then look at saturation elel 50 skin you will see that you, and pretty much every human on earth, looks pasty comapored to level 50 so all those high levels, while looking dramatic, are NOT accurate.
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post #1295 of 1365 Old 06-05-2008, 12:23 AM
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Originally Posted by skibum5000 View Post

Well how they look in the theater is how the director intended. Also, if you look at your skin and then look at saturation elel 50 skin you will see that you, and pretty much every human on earth, looks pasty comapored to level 50 so all those high levels, while looking dramatic, are NOT accurate.

Well, I would say the higher saturation levels look more accurate for what I see outside on a sunny day. Indoor scenes would probably be more accurate with subdued colors, but then the outdoors look lifeless. I think in the end, it's just a matter of preference.

It'd really be interesting if the TV could output the true light levels of indoor and outdoor scenes, and let our eyes do the adjusting instead of the director. But I guess that could get obnoxious and blinding with fast scene cuts.

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post #1296 of 1365 Old 06-05-2008, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by skibum5000 View Post

wow, interesting that you are getting the 750! I'd love to see what you get for the CR! Is it really better or not? I guess the spyder experiment won't work now (unless I get the 750 too ).

I wonder why you are still going for the altered secondaries after what was said above though??

Yeah, it did seem to me that setting color down around 39-40 instead of the 44+ that everyone has been using makes the colorhcrf saturation charts look better, matches closer to what PC mode (which locks the color control) does and seems closer to the saturation levels (at least for skin) that my LUT program on my 244T gave (although that also made some colors seem mroe saturated than color level 37 would).

The experiment better hurry up and get done. I don't think I'll get the new TV for a couple of weeks. Besides I thought you got your own DTP-94 (and could do the test for yourself).

As for what secondaries I am going for: I am using the effect that making changes in My Color Control white settings have on secondaries to get the secondaries as close to Rec709 spec as possible.

Skin is the main thing. I've always said that skin is the most important color to get right. It's the only one you really know what it should look like. There are shades of green that look more or less "OK", but if skin is off by much, it bothers me to no end.
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post #1297 of 1365 Old 06-13-2008, 08:18 PM
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I like my settings but need to turn the red down a click and get my yellow a little more gold instead of pastel. anybody know how to do this?

When did football games become talk shows?
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post #1298 of 1365 Old 06-15-2008, 04:02 PM
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Helli i just bought 80gb ps3 conecting with a hdmi cable from monster cable its the m1000hd and i would like to have some setings for my tv for the ps3 when watching blu rays and playing games i am using the 1013 firmware on lnt 4071

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post #1299 of 1365 Old 06-15-2008, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by YankeesFan239 View Post

Helli i just bought 80gb ps3 conecting with a hdmi cable from monster cable its the m1000hd and i would like to have some setings for my tv for the ps3 when watching blu rays and playing games i am using the 1013 firmware on lnt 4071

i'm not sure if anyone with a probe ever did setting for the 1000 set firmwares, maybe, it'll be a lot of digging.
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post #1300 of 1365 Old 06-15-2008, 09:02 PM
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o really ? theres a lot of pages to dig through LOL

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post #1301 of 1365 Old 06-16-2008, 11:35 AM
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Wow... this is all WAY over my head. Can someone point me to a post that has the "best" settings? Or something good that I can start with and then tweak myself? I hate to ask for this but I really don't want to look through all the posts. My quick searches offered me nothing.

I have a 4671 (FW 2004) with Directv HD and PS3.

Thanks for your help!!!

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post #1302 of 1365 Old 06-16-2008, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skibum5000 View Post

my gut tells me to just keep D65 as is and adjust all secondaries as close to 709 (or 601) as you can. Sure that will make the triangle formed around D65 by connecting the primaries to secondaries larger than placing magenta in certain other spots (although I believe still much smaller than placing it out in the dervied secondary location), but this set's color engine isn't working in a way to care from what I can see.

If you look at the saturation plots it doesn't draw them from green straight across to magenta, but from green to D65 and then D65 to magenta, so if magenta is on, it's on and it's not really warping anything away from 709 in that whole sector, it seems like the error is all isolated to shades from D65 out towards green and we just have to live with those errors.

Best to keep everything else that we can place onto 709/601 on those spots to minimize more errors it seems to me based upon how the color engine seems to be working and that we are not trying to set it up for use with things will be applying colorspace conversion themselves and exptecting a more uniform space to map into.

What are your latest settings? I've really like kjgarrison's, but it'd be nice to see what you've got with your slightly different approach to the calibration.

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post #1303 of 1365 Old 06-16-2008, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptor007 View Post

What are your latest settings? I've really like kjgarrison's, but it'd be nice to see what you've got with your slightly different approach to the calibration.

I've been out of town for a few weeks, so I haven't gotten to use my new probe on it yet, I think the X94 should give better results than the ones I got using the spyder2 before. Check back next week, maybe by wednesday and certainly by the weekend.
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post #1304 of 1365 Old 06-20-2008, 09:35 AM
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i cant find any ps3 settings for movies/games i have 80 gig hdmi and also lnt4071 with laterst firmware 1013

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post #1305 of 1365 Old 06-21-2008, 08:54 AM
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hey skibum 5000 any new settings yet thanks
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post #1306 of 1365 Old 06-27-2008, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike e View Post

hey skibum 5000 any new settings yet thanks

here a few prelimnary ones hot off the press using the new X94 probe:

Contrast 95
Brightness 44
Sharpness 0
Color 41
Tint 48G:52R
BL 8 for testing, but 4 or so day/afternoon, 2-3 for later in quite dark room
Warm1
Black Adjust Off
Dynamic Constrast Off
Gamma 1 (this is a big change, not quite used to it)
WB: 15,15,14,19,12,14 (different than the spyder2 ones and yet still pretty far off from kj's even using the same probe, so either probes vary a good deal even of same brand or the sets do from copy to copy, at least at times. actually closer to my spyder2 ones which were 17,14,14,22,10,15 than his so maybe sets, or at a few here and there, vary a fair amount, but if mine is close to avgs and yours is then it might be good)
My Color as is
HDMI Black Level (Low or Normal as apporpriate for current source)

this is for FW 2004 only (probably, some have shown on the 750 that each FW changes the WB in the SM).

KJ is correct that the probes if against screen for too long on this model does brightness the screen, not 100% sure the gamma +1 is correct, but it appears it might be. I get gamma 2.24 or so with it, although it's not crazy linear, with 2.3 on low end and 2.15 on high end.

http://www.physics.unc.edu/~baum/cal...008_161346.jpg
http://www.physics.unc.edu/~baum/cal...008_161352.jpg
http://www.physics.unc.edu/~baum/cal...008_161355.jpg
http://www.physics.unc.edu/~baum/cal...008_161359.jpg
http://www.physics.unc.edu/~baum/cal...008_161406.jpg
http://www.physics.unc.edu/~baum/cal...008_161409.jpg
http://www.physics.unc.edu/~baum/cal...008_161412.jpg
http://www.physics.unc.edu/~baum/cal...008_161416.jpg
http://www.physics.unc.edu/~baum/cal...008_161419.jpg
http://www.physics.unc.edu/~baum/calibs/x94useColor.chc
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post #1307 of 1365 Old 06-28-2008, 04:42 PM
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i might actually bump COlor down to 40. The tricky thing is htat still leaves most colors a tad saturated but yellow and I think also cyan are already a tad low in saturation. But 40 is still probably better overall than 41. I know people are used to 50 or at least 45, but in reality, something like 40 truly is much more accurate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skibum5000 View Post

here a few prelimnary ones hot off the press using the new X94 probe:

Contrast 95
Brightness 44
Sharpness 0
Color 41
Tint 48G:52R
BL 8 for testing, but 4 or so day/afternoon, 2-3 for later in quite dark room
Warm1
Black Adjust Off
Dynamic Constrast Off
Gamma 1 (this is a big change, not quite used to it)
WB: 15,15,14,19,12,14 (different than the spyder2 ones and yet still pretty far off from kj's even using the same probe, so either probes vary a good deal even of same brand or the sets do from copy to copy, at least at times. actually closer to my spyder2 ones which were 17,14,14,22,10,15 than his so maybe sets, or at a few here and there, vary a fair amount, but if mine is close to avgs and yours is then it might be good)
My Color as is
HDMI Black Level (Low or Normal as apporpriate for current source)

this is for FW 2004 only (probably, some have shown on the 750 that each FW changes the WB in the SM).

KJ is correct that the probes if against screen for too long on this model does brightness the screen, not 100% sure the gamma +1 is correct, but it appears it might be. I get gamma 2.24 or so with it, although it's not crazy linear, with 2.3 on low end and 2.15 on high end.

http://www.physics.unc.edu/~baum/cal...008_161346.jpg
http://www.physics.unc.edu/~baum/cal...008_161352.jpg
http://www.physics.unc.edu/~baum/cal...008_161355.jpg
http://www.physics.unc.edu/~baum/cal...008_161359.jpg
http://www.physics.unc.edu/~baum/cal...008_161406.jpg
http://www.physics.unc.edu/~baum/cal...008_161409.jpg
http://www.physics.unc.edu/~baum/cal...008_161412.jpg
http://www.physics.unc.edu/~baum/cal...008_161416.jpg
http://www.physics.unc.edu/~baum/cal...008_161419.jpg
http://www.physics.unc.edu/~baum/calibs/x94useColor.chc

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post #1308 of 1365 Old 06-28-2008, 06:16 PM
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is these settings in movie or standard mode thanks
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post #1309 of 1365 Old 06-28-2008, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by mike e View Post

is these settings in movie or standard mode thanks

Movie Mode

also the probe seems to be saying gamma +2 now!
anyway, I would at least leave it at +1 and not 0 anymore.

also seems to imply COlor 39 is in some ways even better overall than COlor 40 if you want to give more weight to red/blue, but it hard to say, green and yellowish shades really need Color up around 43-44 but red.blue,magenta, etc. need it around 37-38.
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post #1310 of 1365 Old 06-29-2008, 05:41 PM
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thanks for the new settings I will try them out
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post #1311 of 1365 Old 06-29-2008, 11:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike e View Post

thanks for the new settings I will try them out

a newer try is
movie mode
con 95
bir 44
sharp 0
color 40
tint 52R
BL 2 (for dark room) 10 (to measure) 4-5 (bright day)
warm1
my color all 15's default
black adjust, dynamic contrast no
gamma +1
color space auto
DNR no
WB: 16,15,15,17,12,14
edge enhance no

still playing around.
those are at least a pretty decent ballpark though, at least on my copy
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post #1312 of 1365 Old 07-01-2008, 10:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skibum5000 View Post

a newer try is
movie mode
con 95
bir 44
sharp 0
color 40
tint 52R
BL 2 (for dark room) 10 (to measure) 4-5 (bright day)
warm1
my color all 15's default
black adjust, dynamic contrast no
gamma +1
color space auto
DNR no
WB: 16,15,15,17,12,14
edge enhance no

still playing around.
those are at least a pretty decent ballpark though, at least on my copy

Any chance of you doing a calibration for "Standard" picture mode?. Right now im using your settings for movie and KJGarisson's ones for standard (not his movie one). Id love to see your interpretation of standard mode though and compare it to his.

Also, no matter how hard I try...I just cant take away dynamic contrast on low...it just gives the picture a bit of life (however innacurate it might be ) Theres no way of doing a proper calibration with it set to low from the get go? Id love to see it from you as well

Even if you do neither, thanks for taking the time and posting your results.
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post #1313 of 1365 Old 07-02-2008, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by redcrow100 View Post

Any chance of you doing a calibration for "Standard" picture mode?. Right now im using your settings for movie and KJGarisson's ones for standard (not his movie one). Id love to see your interpretation of standard mode though and compare it to his.

Yeah, I can't use any Movie Mode calibrations; my blue is way too undersaturated in Movie Mode.


Quote:
Originally Posted by redcrow100 View Post

Also, no matter how hard I try...I just cant take away dynamic contrast on low...it just gives the picture a bit of life (however innacurate it might be ) Theres no way of doing a proper calibration with it set to low from the get go? Id love to see it from you as well

Even if you do neither, thanks for taking the time and posting your results.

Interesting; I was never able to tolerate the Dynamic Contrast modes myself. I have a feeling it'd be impossible to calibrate like that though, since the greyscale would be jumping all over the place.

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post #1314 of 1365 Old 07-02-2008, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redcrow100 View Post

Any chance of you doing a calibration for "Standard" picture mode?. Right now im using your settings for movie and KJGarisson's ones for standard (not his movie one). Id love to see your interpretation of standard mode though and compare it to his.

Also, no matter how hard I try...I just cant take away dynamic contrast on low...it just gives the picture a bit of life (however innacurate it might be ) Theres no way of doing a proper calibration with it set to low from the get go? Id love to see it from you as well

Even if you do neither, thanks for taking the time and posting your results.

i'm not sure if it is truly possible to do it with dynamic contrast since notice the word dynamic and I think it chnages things different amounts depending upon the scene.

i would suggest not using my gamma +1 though and keep that back at 0.
and maybe turning contrast down a bit.

i may look into it but it might be hard to deal with and probably all you can do is play around like that above, but maybe turnign gamma down a bit and lowering contrast a bit, hard to think what else could be done.
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post #1315 of 1365 Old 07-02-2008, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptor007 View Post

Yeah, I can't use any Movie Mode calibrations; my blue is way too undersaturated in Movie Mode.




Interesting; I was never able to tolerate the Dynamic Contrast modes myself. I have a feeling it'd be impossible to calibrate like that though, since the greyscale would be jumping all over the place.

i'll give standard a shot.
i seem to recall before that something was worse about it, but i'll see what happens.
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post #1316 of 1365 Old 07-02-2008, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skibum5000 View Post

i'll give standard a shot.
i seem to recall before that something was worse about it, but i'll see what happens.

You can't use Warm1 or Warm2 in Standard mode, so you have to use the color controls/tint to adjust from Normal.

Samsung BD-UP5000 (1.3), Samsung 4671 (1013.1), Denon AVR-3808CI, HTD Level 3 5.1
Denon AVR-3300, Denon PMA-700V, Advent Loudspeakers
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post #1317 of 1365 Old 07-03-2008, 11:54 AM
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thanks alot skibum....ill be looking forward to it!!!

Yeah I had a hunch itd be hard doing one with dynamic contrast on low. Nevertheless, a calibration for "standard" will still be helpful. In movie mode for example, I cant shake the feeling that skin tones look a tiny bit green and theres not enough blue for me (like during daylight sky scenes).
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post #1318 of 1365 Old 07-05-2008, 09:46 PM
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FINAL SETTINGS!

Dtv via HDMI/ 360 via HDMI Standard setting
1013.1/1001

standard
contrast 95
brightness 39/29 for 360
sharpness 50/90 for 360
color 38/ 54 for 360
tint 50/50
backlight 8
color tone normal
black adjust low
dynamic contrast medium (the picture is lifeless without it)
gamma 2
color space Wide
white balance 15,15,14,5,14,11
my color control 15,15,15,15
edge enhancement on
size 16:9 (sharper picture)
DNR off
DNie on
AMP off/ high for 360


Thanks for posting guys.

EDIT: Indianapolis Colts jerseys are supposed to be a very dark royal blue on Madden 08. Auto makes the jerseys look purplish-my conclusion-Wide wins.

"Talk to me Goose."
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post #1319 of 1365 Old 07-06-2008, 04:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redcrow100 View Post

thanks alot skibum....ill be looking forward to it!!!

Yeah I had a hunch itd be hard doing one with dynamic contrast on low. Nevertheless, a calibration for "standard" will still be helpful. In movie mode for example, I cant shake the feeling that skin tones look a tiny bit green and theres not enough blue for me (like during daylight sky scenes).

Sounds like you have the same Movie mode as me; do you have a firmare 1xxx set? Others with firmware 2xxx are reporting that their Movie mode looks the same as Standard (when all tweaks are equal). Then again, it may vary from set-to-set.

Samsung BD-UP5000 (1.3), Samsung 4671 (1013.1), Denon AVR-3808CI, HTD Level 3 5.1
Denon AVR-3300, Denon PMA-700V, Advent Loudspeakers
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post #1320 of 1365 Old 07-11-2008, 10:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redcrow100 View Post

thanks alot skibum....ill be looking forward to it!!!

Yeah I had a hunch itd be hard doing one with dynamic contrast on low. Nevertheless, a calibration for "standard" will still be helpful. In movie mode for example, I cant shake the feeling that skin tones look a tiny bit green and theres not enough blue for me (like during daylight sky scenes).

ok my newest ones:

first the Movie Mode:
con 95
bri 45
sharp 0
color 38
tint 48G:52R
BL 2 for dark room, 3 at most; 3-5 for day, usually 4
Warm1
Noise Reduction Off
Edge Enhance Off
xvYCC Off
Black Adjust Off
Dynamic Contrast Off
Gamma +1
Color Space Auto
WB: 16,14,14,17,12,16
My Color: 15,15,15,15

now for the.... STANDARD MODE!!!! this one is somewaht preliminary:
con 95
bri 45
sharp 0
color 40
tint 49G:51R
BL seems to run 1/2 step brighter than movie mode
Normal
Noise Reduction Off
Edge Enhance Off
xvYCC Off
Black Adjust Off
Dynamic Contrast Off
Gamma +1
Color Space Auto
WB: 16,15,15,30,9,0
My Color: 15,15,15,14
seems to have maybe 10% better CR than the movie mode one as is
although magenta secondary is a bit more off and can't be fixed without pushing both cyan and yellow secondaries off

movie mode and standard give different relative proportion of saturation for the different channels, standard tends to be a bit less red saturation compared to magenta,blue,cyan than movie mode.

and of course set HDMI Black Level Normal or Low as required for your particular source
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