The Official Pioneer 9G Elite KURO Owner's Discussion Thread - Page 1054 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31591 of 32133 Old 06-20-2016, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by video_analysis View Post
As both a former Kuro and EF9500 (flat) owner, that would still be too much to pay for that flawed model, IMO.
Which flaws do you consider the deal breakers?

At this point, with all my Kuros in tip top shape with regards to picture quality, I'm waiting until the 141fd in my main room dies before making the plunge. Even so, if the repair job is easy, I'll just bring it back to life.

The 2016 models do look enticing but are beyond affordability in my situation.

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post #31592 of 32133 Old 06-20-2016, 05:21 PM
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It's mainly one issue: The near-black uniformity on the 2015 models runs the risk of making you long for the Kuro (or any late generation flagship plasma) in owing to the vertical banding (that can show up as streaking on camera pans or, worse yet, create a jailbar effect over the entire screen on content with elevated blacks) and vignetting. The latter is supposedly fixed in late builds (they ceased manufacturing the EF9500 by April 2015), but that doesn't resolve the banding, which still seems to be showing up for new owners.
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post #31593 of 32133 Old 06-21-2016, 06:07 AM
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noob question: will this soundbar work on the 500M?

http://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/so...specifications
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post #31594 of 32133 Old 06-25-2016, 05:22 PM
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Trying not to even start a commotion in the shooutout thread........Why everytime a kuro is used for comparison it seems there's something wrong with it? I'll leave this here and let y'all be the judge-

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/sh...-ce-week/33016

Mind you i watched that movie 2 nights ago and it looks nothing like that. It's just as colorful as the other TV's. I would hope Robert is not intentionally limiting his kuro to make HDR and WCG stand out more that it should for this obviously well commercialized shooutout. But i'm not going to go that far yet. I'm going to ask him about this on another forum.

You guys have kuros. You tell me if looks dull and colorless like that.

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post #31595 of 32133 Old 06-25-2016, 06:21 PM
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Trying not to even start a commotion in the shooutout thread........Why everytime a kuro is used for comparison it seems there's something wrong with it? I'll leave this here and let y'all be the judge-

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/sh...-ce-week/33016

Mind you i watched that movie 2 nights ago and it looks nothing like that. It's just as colorful as the other TV's. I would hope Robert is not intentionally limiting his kuro to make HDR and WCG stand out more that it should for this obviously well commercialized shooutout. But i'm not going to go that far yet. I'm going to ask him about this on another forum.

You guys have kuros. You tell me if looks dull and colorless like that.
I guess you haven't seen a HDR/WCG tv. Yes, Kuro will look dull and colorless against HDR/WCG tv.
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post #31596 of 32133 Old 06-26-2016, 05:00 AM
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Originally Posted by ricebrah View Post
I guess you haven't seen a HDR/WCG tv. Yes, Kuro will look dull and colorless against HDR/WCG tv.
I guessed you missed the part where i said that movie, or any movie, doesn't look anything like that on my kuro at all. Lets not exaggerate the differences. HDR and WCG has more colors, but rec709 wouldn't look like a black and white film. In fact i put up those exact parts of the movie, i had to laugh. I don't know how anyone can look at those pics and honestly say that's accurate. Like i just watched that movie. It's a colorful as can be.

Only other explanation i can say is the HDR TV's are washing out the kuro on out SDR monitors.

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post #31597 of 32133 Old 06-26-2016, 06:03 AM
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Guys, FWIW I was at the shootout (I am a retired old geezer who can do what I want most days and I have bought two TV's (one of them a Kuro) from Robert so I was invited) and here are my impressions.

The Kuro held up much better than some of the reviews gave it credit for.

The format of the shootout at the CE thing was much too short. The shootout should of been a six hour event. Joel Silver had a ton of great information that at times he had to gloss over due to the schedule.

Why the industry continues to pursue a high-end LCD technology enhancements is beyond me. The excuse that is always given is viewers want a TV that they can enjoy in a fully lit room. And this is absolutely true for the average TV viewer who chokes on the idea of spending more than $1K on a TV. But when you start talking more than $5K for high-end TV's the overwhelming limitations of LCD (off-angle viewing, distortions caused by all of the various lighting back lighting schemes, a very noticeable lack of screen uniformity) compared to emissive technology (OLED, Plasma and even old fashion CRT) becomes very clear. Telling someone if the want the best TV viewing possible they have to do it in a darkened room is the same as telling an audiophile that if he wants the best sound in addition to great audio gear he will need acoustic room treatments.

As to HDR/WCG I am all for WCG, however, I am not that sure about all the things that HDR wants to do, especially when in come to color saturation. It seems that the holly grail for HDR is "make it look like the movies" which tend to over saturate color giving the picture an almost cartoon like quality. I personally am more for the holly grail being realism (like looking out of a window).

So these are my thoughts after actually being there. I have the feeling that this little post will probably offend at least half of the folks who participate here at the AVS forums, but please remember these are just the thoughts of a retired old geezer.
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post #31598 of 32133 Old 06-26-2016, 06:24 AM
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I guess it depends on the type of movie and the associated artistic direction versus realism that is being portrayed. Take a look at Sin City for instance, a movie based on a comic, where color and contrast is highly stylized and artificial. It is an extreme example, but the greater dynamic range afforded by HDR can be used in filming just as realistically (or unrealistically) as the DP chooses.
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post #31599 of 32133 Old 06-26-2016, 06:25 AM
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The Kuro held up much better than some of the reviews gave it credit for.
You shouldn't be surprised. In a market of selling new tv's who wants to admit an 8 year old tv can hold up to 2016 tv's? Then there's this for those who are sensitive to it-

Quote:
none of the sets, save the old plasma, performed particularly well with moving-image torture clips in the absence of their frame interpolation circuits being flipped on.
http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...jWmEe3EIsS2.99
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post #31600 of 32133 Old 06-26-2016, 06:33 AM
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According to, Mark, they were using a HDR P3 source is the reason why the kuro looked like that. How pointless. I want to know the reason why they didn't use rec709 bluray and compare it to 4K bluray.

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post #31601 of 32133 Old 06-26-2016, 07:04 AM
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The industry always focuses on what's the cheapest and sells the most. LCD wins that despite its inferior tech. It's funny how they keep "improving" LCD technology in a way to get back to what we lost.......Plasma.

As for HDR. While it's nice in practice, i can't get excited for changing the artistic intent of a films original look. You can say "but the HDR was already there"-doesn't matter. That's not the way it was made for theaters.

I think HDR should left for animation movies.

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post #31602 of 32133 Old 06-26-2016, 07:10 AM
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As i understand it they needed a reference TV that is what the kuro was for (the one that Robert uses in the gym). I believe Joel Silver said that the kuro was close with standard material stuff. Since there is very little HDR WCG UHD... stuff at this moment and since it is a work in progress it really does not matter much right now AFAIK.
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post #31603 of 32133 Old 06-26-2016, 07:56 AM
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As i understand it they needed a reference TV that is what the kuro was for (the one that Robert uses in the gym). I believe Joel Silver said that the kuro was close with standard material stuff. Since there is very little HDR WCG UHD... stuff at this moment and since it is a work in progress it really does not matter much right now AFAIK.
Yes but they fed it a HDR P3 signal which it can't process hence the picture not looking correct. Why do that? I don't know if they had any 709 material at all. My whole point was the kuro is not suppose to look like that going by what i linked above. I was right and there was a reason for that.

That poster saying that's what it should look like next to HDR WCG is hilarious in hindsight.
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post #31604 of 32133 Old 06-26-2016, 09:31 AM
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Trying not to even start a commotion in the shooutout thread........Why everytime a kuro is used for comparison it seems there's something wrong with it? I'll leave this here and let y'all be the judge-

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/sh...-ce-week/33016

Mind you i watched that movie 2 nights ago and it looks nothing like that. It's just as colorful as the other TV's. I would hope Robert is not intentionally limiting his kuro to make HDR and WCG stand out more that it should for this obviously well commercialized shooutout. But i'm not going to go that far yet. I'm going to ask him about this on another forum.

You guys have kuros. You tell me if looks dull and colorless like that.
Hey Saprano,

Yeah I totally agree with you here........they made that Kuro look dull and horrible! There's no way a Kuro looks like that. The other thing I found interesting which was actually a credit to plasma is when they said "Not surprisingly, none of the sets, save the old plasma, performed particularly well with moving-image torture clips in the absence of their frame interpolation circuits being flipped on." Still kind of proves that the new flagship models have motion problems and that plasma is still the better in that respect. But yeah it totally looked like that Kuro was not an accurate representation of a Kuro. I know the LG OLED would look better but there's no way it looked that much better. Just my opinion.

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Originally Posted by saprano View Post
Trying not to even start a commotion in the shooutout thread........Why everytime a kuro is used for comparison it seems there's something wrong with it? I'll leave this here and let y'all be the judge-

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/sh...-ce-week/33016

Mind you i watched that movie 2 nights ago and it looks nothing like that. It's just as colorful as the other TV's. I would hope Robert is not intentionally limiting his kuro to make HDR and WCG stand out more that it should for this obviously well commercialized shooutout. But i'm not going to go that far yet. I'm going to ask him about this on another forum.

You guys have kuros. You tell me if looks dull and colorless like that.

I have the 2015 OLED 65", the panel is a UB panel which is the good one from 2015 , side by side with my 101 i think the 101 has better PQ , but to be fair to the OLED it will need to be calibrated as the 101 has been calibrated by Jeff Meier from Accucal , I am liking the OLED though, not as many issues as I thought it would have . 3D looks very nice on this OLED .
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post #31606 of 32133 Old 06-26-2016, 10:52 AM
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I guess you haven't seen a HDR/WCG tv. Yes, Kuro will look dull and colorless against HDR/WCG tv.
Ya this is not true, if anything my kuro colors look more rich than my OLED , not to say after calibration the OLED will not look as good or better , we will see
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post #31607 of 32133 Old 06-26-2016, 01:58 PM
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Ya this is not true, if anything my kuro colors look more rich than my OLED , not to say after calibration the OLED will not look as good or better , we will see
Which 4k HDR/WCG content are you watching? I'm assuming that you are comparing OLEDs SDR Rec 709 to Kuro? In that case, I would think that Kuro is still the "reference" in most areas but like you said, calibrate that OLED and see. I'm glad that you got a panel with minimum issues. Congrats on your purchase.
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post #31608 of 32133 Old 06-26-2016, 03:30 PM
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Which 4k HDR/WCG content are you watching? I'm assuming that you are comparing OLEDs SDR Rec 709 to Kuro? In that case, I would think that Kuro is still the "reference" in most areas but like you said, calibrate that OLED and see. I'm glad that you got a panel with minimum issues. Congrats on your purchase.
I am watching HDR on the samsung Bluray Player 4k- 8500 I think , the only 4k Player I could find , HDR is a mess as far as I can tell , I have 2 HDR Blurays ,Star Trek into the darkness 4K HDR and Journey to Space Bluray 4K HDR , I am still playing with settings but not sure if there is even a standard for HRD yet .
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Hey guys need some advice I was offered $2300 for My 141 with less than 20 hours on it. Should I sell it or have a calibrated and keep it.my budget for a new TV would be in the
3000 to $3200 range. That budget wouldn't give me a lot of options I can buy the Sony 950B or it would put me close to the price of the LG 9500 series OLED It doesn't put me close to the
price of the sony 940C or a good projector and screen. So any advice would be appreciated thank you

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post #31610 of 32133 Old 06-27-2016, 08:53 AM
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Hey guys need some advice I was offered $2300 for My 141 with less than 20 hours on it. Should I sell it or have a calibrated and keep it.my budget for a new TV would be in the
3000 to $3200 range. That budget wouldn't give me a lot of options I can buy the Sony 950B or it would put me close to the price of the LG 9500 series OLED It doesn't put me close to the
price of the sony 940C or a good projector and screen. So any advice would be appreciated thank you
If I were you I would keep the 141 Kuro. Only way I would get rid of it is if I would be able to upgrade to an E6 or G6 OLED. I made the mistake of buying a Sony 79X900B last summer and was very disappointed. Colors on the Sony's aren't as rich as the plasmas and the uniformity on them is still an issue too. Blooming is still not fixed and is an issue. I think you will be disappointed with any of the Sony's from the 900 models on up to the 950 models. Just my opinion but I owned one and sold it right away. I went back to plasma and Purchased a 65"ZT60 and have been happy again ever since. Luckily I still hung onto my 65"VT30 so I'll be putting that one in the kitchen. Just gotta let the wife pick out a nice stand to put it on as she doesn't want it wall mounted.


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post #31611 of 32133 Old 06-27-2016, 08:56 AM
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Hey Saprano,

Yeah I totally agree with you here........they made that Kuro look dull and horrible! There's no way a Kuro looks like that. The other thing I found interesting which was actually a credit to plasma is when they said "Not surprisingly, none of the sets, save the old plasma, performed particularly well with moving-image torture clips in the absence of their frame interpolation circuits being flipped on." Still kind of proves that the new flagship models have motion problems and that plasma is still the better in that respect. But yeah it totally looked like that Kuro was not an accurate representation of a Kuro. I know the LG OLED would look better but there's no way it looked that much better. Just my opinion.

Ronnie
And i'm not trying to downplay the benefits of UHD on these new TV's. Especially OLED. But at least do the comparison properly. There are already sites that are using that flawed comparison as proof as to how much of a difference HDR and WCG makes. It's an improvement, but not that much of an improvement where it makes BT709 look like that. Damn sure not a kuro.

Yeah motion is still a big problem with LCD and OLED. I don't think they'll match plasmas anytime soon.
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Ya this is not true, if anything my kuro colors look more rich than my OLED , not to say after calibration the OLED will not look as good or better , we will see
I like how he still insists on that being the case even after it's been proven the kuro wasn't even playing a proper source.
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post #31612 of 32133 Old 06-27-2016, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by rcapprotti View Post
Hey guys need some advice I was offered $2300 for My 141 with less than 20 hours on it. Should I sell it or have a calibrated and keep it.my budget for a new TV would be in the
3000 to $3200 range. That budget wouldn't give me a lot of options I can buy the Sony 950B or it would put me close to the price of the LG 9500 series OLED It doesn't put me close to the
price of the sony 940C or a good projector and screen. So any advice would be appreciated thank you
That's a good price. If you really feel the need for a new TV and 4K, i guess take it and put it towards OLED. I wouldn't go back to LCD. The newer OLED's are pretty pricey though.

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post #31613 of 32133 Old 06-27-2016, 09:41 AM
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This is what should have been done-

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ole...l#post44997002

I don't know if maybe it would have taken too much time. But that's the best way to show what's current best and how much the new 4K displays improve from that. The way it was done why even bring the kuro.
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That's a good price. If you really feel the need for a new TV and 4K, i guess take it and put it towards OLED. I wouldn't go back to LCD. The newer OLED's are pretty pricey though.
Yes i would go with the 2016 OLED but at $4500 that's a little to much for me.thanks for your opinion
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post #31615 of 32133 Old 06-27-2016, 11:09 AM
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Yes i would go with the 2016 OLED but at $4500 that's a little to much for me.thanks for your opinion
Like Superman said, keep it unless you can buy the latest models.

I'm content with the kuro for now. Hopefully in the next couple years we'll see some big OLED advancements from everyone.

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post #31616 of 32133 Old 06-27-2016, 11:31 AM
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Like Superman said, keep it unless you can buy the latest models.

I'm content with the kuro for now. Hopefully in the next couple years we'll see some big OLED advancements from everyone.
It's almost like the last generation Kuro's are a collectible classic car. You never want to get rid of them because they're so beautiful and are still among the best to this day.
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post #31617 of 32133 Old 06-27-2016, 03:18 PM
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Yes i would go with the 2016 OLED but at $4500 that's a little to much for me.thanks for your opinion
You seem to have put a great deal more time into what you should do going forward than watching your Kuro. I would not trade a 141 for what the money will buy you now, but I'm big on watching mostly Blu-ray movies, and sports like football and hockey (wife only).

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post #31618 of 32133 Old 06-27-2016, 03:29 PM
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It's almost like the last generation Kuro's are a collectible classic car. You never want to get rid of them because they're so beautiful and are still among the best to this day.
The design and build quality is far ahead of any TV imo. Actually, build quality is not even an opinion. It's objectively better built. The stand alone feels high end.

Even when i get around to buying OLED i won't be selling this TV. Makes no sense to when it has this kind of overall quality. From the picture to the way Pioneer put it together.
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post #31619 of 32133 Old 06-27-2016, 06:58 PM
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Pro-111fd

I have an unboxed PRO-111FD that I plan to give to my son to sell on eBay. Any idea how much he should ask for it?

BTW, we each already have KUROs and love them. Still amazing and issue free.

Thanks.

Dennis

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post #31620 of 32133 Old 06-27-2016, 07:36 PM
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Reddish Blacks

I'm starting to get the reddish blacks on my PRO-101.


What is the fix?


thx


bob

Last edited by spongebob; 06-27-2016 at 08:33 PM.
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