The Official Pioneer 9G Kuro Settings/Issues Thread - Page 5 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #121 of 11214 Old 07-29-2008, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Quote:


Quote:
Originally Posted by coursey
Hi D-Nice;

Great job on the new thread. How close do you think that us non-elite owners

XX20's can come to D65, D55, D75 on our displays?


On the non-Elites, you can only choose one target white point. However, you will be able to achieve an identical grayscale compared to the Elite.

However the different color tempatures are available by using the A/V modes correct?

Of course you will have to accept some of the other settings of that mode but to the extent that you can tweak a High or Mid color temp to your satisfaction you can get to a setting you may like better for "Sports" or "Games" or older movies or certain material.

This is why settings for other A/V modes can be of value.

Can D-Nice or someone post the underlying color tempatures that correspond to each of the Non-Elite A/V modes?

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post #122 of 11214 Old 07-29-2008, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattg3 View Post

Pardon my ignorance but what is the thumbdrive?

A thumb drive is a small flat inexpensive storage device that's about the size of a thumb. It can be plugged into a USB port and used like a hard disk, but it's really read-write memory on a chip. Most often they are used with computers.

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post #123 of 11214 Old 07-29-2008, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gus738 View Post

value man yes i agree you want to get it right so that you dont mess up your tv

while i'm not trying to pick on you in regard to no understanding you but i really had a hard time but i think you're saying that when you put the dvd the image was displayed as full screen in 4:3 and did not fill in the whole tv?

if so then yeah you want to correct so you zoom or strectch the image to fill in everything.

but it doesn't make sense since it was made in 16x9 someone correct me if im wrong? and if i'm right then you have to ajust your dvd player to output the right signal.




D-nice i didnt explain my post well so let me try again. While your not a gamer i would just like a feedback in regards to the a/v game mode and under it you can put game mode on or off

what does this do in effect to PQ or processing? And if it doesnt do anything bad then why not have this faster process default?

i hope i make sense now, and fianly the other question if of course we want the best PQ and i belive you said pure mode is the best mode for elite right?

if so how does pure mode change to game mode?

im looking for the changes in pure vs game to see if theirs any benefit in inproved PQ for games......

i hope you can answer those questions even thought you arent a gamer thanks




Also off topic D-nice but what you recommend for me to use to calibrate my 42" and 50" TH-xxpx75u? my dad has no expereince and i have very little and i thought maybe something like DVE HD basic? the blu ray edition since my dad has a sony BDP-300

A classic case of the pot calling the kettle black. I've been trying to understand you for months gus. I know through PM that you're a good guy so I don't mean to offend you but it might benefit you to write on a word doc, do a spell and grammar check, correct the doc, and then copy and paste to the forum.
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post #124 of 11214 Old 07-29-2008, 01:03 PM
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I had to put:

Screen Size: Full

to zoom for my sony HDMI dvd player to fit the whole screen. If its on Full there is a little room on the top that is still not filled up by the picture.
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post #125 of 11214 Old 07-29-2008, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturn94 View Post

Are you saying that if I use the "out of the box" settings you suggested and do not use the break in DVD, that the "out of the box" settings will not be good after 150 hours of use due to "major shifts in greyscale during the first 150 hours of use"?

Thanks.

Pretty much.

So for the people who didn't use the Break-In disc, after 150 hours or so, we should switch to the "Pioneer 111FD/151FD Reference Settings (Break-in DVD/Thumbdrive Owners ONLY!!!!!!! ONLY use these settings after the 150 hour break-in period!!!!!!!!!)" settings?

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post #126 of 11214 Old 07-29-2008, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Cinema has always been on Pioneer plasmas. It's best used for stretching 480i/p 4:3 pictures.

By stretching 480i/p do you mean re-sizing it to fit the screen better or do you mean actually stretching/distorting the image (to where actors heads look too fat or too skinny).
I like using the Cinema screensize because it reduces the size of the black bars on 480i/p DVD movies. But it kinda looks as if it is stretching/distorting the image a little But it is hard to tell. Is it doing this?? Or is it Re-sizing the picture and cutting off some of the edges of the picture.

Thx,
The Chad
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post #127 of 11214 Old 07-29-2008, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cuzzin View Post

So for the people who didn't use the Break-In disc, after 150 hours or so, we should switch to the "Pioneer 111FD/151FD Reference Settings (Break-in DVD/Thumbdrive Owners ONLY!!!!!!! ONLY use these settings after the 150 hour break-in period!!!!!!!!!)" settings?

What D-Nice is saying is that there are two types of people.

1) "Break in group": Those that choose to use a break in DVD/thumbdrive during the first 150 hrs. with their Pio (whether they use a thumb drive or the DVD is irrelevant)

2) "Non-Break in group": Those that choose NOT to use a break in DVD/thumbdrive during the first 150 hrs.


****** (The first 150 hrs. of a Plasma panels usage is known as the "break in period" due to the rapid maturing/aging of the phospors)


He gave settings for the "break in group" for the first 150 hrs. He then provided "reference settings" for those same folks. By reference settings he means the settings you use after the first 150 hrs. ( This paragraph applies to group #1 above.)

He also provided setting for the "NON break in group" to use for the first 150 hrs. He also provided the reference settings for these same folks to use after the 150 hr. period. (You see, even if you choose not to use a break in DVD, you should still use special settings on your Pio the first 150 hrs.)(This paragraph applies to group #2 above)

The 150 hr. period is known as "the break in period" because this is the time when the phosphors age the most rapidly...in other words the panel is being broken in. It is know as "the break in period" regardless of whether you utilize a break in implement (DVD or thumbdrive), because this refers to the time frame of the panel aging rapidly.

So D-Nice went to the trouble to figure out the ideal settings for the DVD/thumb drive group AND those that aren't using a break in DVD/thumbdrive.....and he figured out setting for EACH group (#1 and #2 above) for the first 150 hours AND for the period after 150 hrs.

Did I just confuse you more? If so these concepts may lie just beyond your outstretched fingers.


EDIT: The whole aging rapidly thing may be totally wrong, but I do know that during the first 150 hrs. the phosphors of the panel are more "sensitive".
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post #128 of 11214 Old 07-29-2008, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gamelover360 View Post

Did I just confuse you more? If so these concepts may lie just beyond your outstretched fingers.

No, not confused at all regarding the break-in process. I'm just asking D-Nice if the reference settings provided for the non-Break-In DVD users would still be ideal after 150 hours. He says the "out of box" settings will no longer be good after 150 hours. I don't think he's referring to starter vs. reference settings, because the only difference between starter and reference settings for the non-Break-In guys is the contrast has been bumped down a notch. I wouldn't think such a small adjustment makes the difference between "good" and "not good", so I'm thinking after 150 hours of TV watching, no Break-In disc, he's saying to swtich to the post-150 hours settings he provided for the Break-In folk.

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post #129 of 11214 Old 07-29-2008, 01:46 PM
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Cant figure out which are settings for non-break in thumbdrive people who own an elite 111 after the first 150 hours.Seems only one set of settings for these people is posted.Are they the same to be used before and after the first 150 hours?

Matt
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post #130 of 11214 Old 07-29-2008, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattg3 View Post

Cant figure out which are settings for non-break in thumbdrive people who own an elite 111 after the first 150 hours.Seems only one set of settings for these people is posted.Are they the same to be used before and after the first 150 hours?

That's pretty much what I'm asking above.

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post #131 of 11214 Old 07-29-2008, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattg3 View Post

Cant figure out which are settings for non-break in thumbdrive people who own an elite 111 after the first 150 hours.Seems only one set of settings for these people is posted.Are they the same to be used before and after the first 150 hours?

What do you mean by non-break in thumbdrive people. I thought he was referring to those that didn't buy the DVD and saved the file to a thumb? Therefore the thumbdrive people are the break in group just as if you used a DVD.
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post #132 of 11214 Old 07-29-2008, 02:29 PM
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glashub so do i still have alot of errors?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glashub View Post

A classic case of the pot calling the kettle black. I've been trying to understand you for months gus. I know through PM that you’re a good guy so I don't mean to offend you but it might benefit you to write on a word doc, do a spell and grammar check, correct the doc, and then copy and paste to the forum.

well see thats what im trying to figure out if game pref on reduces or eliminates any lag whats the side effect or why not hardcode this to make the tv process everything faster?

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Turning Game Pref to "On" shuts of any and all processing that may cause game lag. This should produce very good PQ for games.

Pure mode is best for film and video content. I've never conducted PQ tests with games


DVE HD should be fine.

any other disc that i should try? i heard of a rec709 or something?

Sorry D-nice i guess since i brought it up now coltsfreak and others want game av mode settings

Quote:
Originally Posted by coltsfreak18 View Post

So can we have game AV mode settings???


Dahlsim where does pioneer state that you get side effect from game mode on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahlsim View Post

Hmm, someone send D-Nice a game console for calibration purposes, maybe an Atari 2600 or such fine example

Long & Short from the Kuro on lag appears to be that the Game Mode has a setting for increasing responsiveness in case input lag becomes noticeable.

Not all games or all players are sensitive enough to slight amounts of lag to be an issue at all. Some games and some players are extremely sensitive to even the smallest lag.

Pioneer implies that it may sacrifice some PQ when the game control pref is on so the option is yours. You may not notice any difference in quality with it on anyway but maybe someone can do an A/B check on a few games and report back if so inclined.

for those of you who have guitar hero 3 game what is your video ms?

i tried going into Guitar hero 3 calibrate section and on video the lowest i got was 14 ms on video, This is on my 42" panasonic TH-42px75u 720p

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post #133 of 11214 Old 07-29-2008, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gamelover360 View Post

Therefore the thumbdrive people are the break in group just as if you used a DVD.

correct.
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post #134 of 11214 Old 07-29-2008, 05:22 PM
 
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I have seen the words "ordered", "bought", and "buy" used in connection with the break-in DVD here and elsewhere at AVS many times.

I don't get it...it's a free download. Who is paying for the DVD and why? I am hoping it is just a typo for most.
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post #135 of 11214 Old 07-29-2008, 05:25 PM
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Nah, some people don't necessarily want to go through the trouble themselves... I'm not one of them, but I know people who are like that.

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post #136 of 11214 Old 07-29-2008, 05:49 PM
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Question: if the "hard-wired" settings for Performance and Standard are identical, why are the reference settings different?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahlsim View Post

Repost from old thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahlsim View Post

This thread is definitely useful for these sets. There's actually quite a bit of "tweaking" possible for a set with reduced adjustments.

I'll take the liberty to add the other Non-Movie settings which D-Nice has posted for other 6020 A/V modes as his own reccomendations for starters. It should not deter others from adding their own customized settings however.

Underlying Settings for each of A/V Modes:


A/V Mode ---- DRE --- Black Level --- ACL --- Enhancer --- Gamma --- CTI

Dynamic------ High ------- On ------- On ------- 2 ---------- 2 ------ On
Performance-- Mid -------- On ------- On ------- 2 ---------- 2 ------ On
Movie-------- Off -------- On ------- Off ------- 2 ---------- 1 ------ On
Sports------- Mid -------- On ------- On ------- 2 ---------- 2 ------ On
Game-------- Off -------- Off ------- Off ------- 2 ---------- 2 ------ On
Standard----- Mid ------- On ------- On ------- 2 ---------- 2 ------ On

The NR features are on for every A/V mode. Optimum mode changes these settings depending on what the light/color sensor detects.

Also, there is no way in the SM to adjust these features.

Power Save Mode: Off

Standard mode settings

https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=6311

Picture:
AV Selection: Standard
Contrast: 31
Brightness: +3
Color: -3 to -7 (you pick)
Tint: R4
Sharpness: -15

Pure Cinema

Film Mode: Advance
Text Optimization: Off



Power Save Mode: Off

************************************************************ *************
https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=5496

Game mode has an 8K+ grayscale. Here are some "ok" settings with that mode:

Picture:
AV Selection: Game
Contrast: 30
Brightness: 0
Color: -4
Tint: R4
Sharpness: -15

Pure Cinema

Film Mode: Advance
Text Optimization: Off



Power Save Mode: Off

************************************************************ *************
https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...a#post14144788

Picture:
AV Selection: Performance
Contrast: 30
Brightness: +4
Color: -4
Tint: R3
Sharpness: -15

Pure Cinema

Film Mode: Advance
Text Optimization: Off



Power Save Mode: Off

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post #137 of 11214 Old 07-29-2008, 06:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattg3 View Post

Cant figure out which are settings for non-break in thumbdrive people who own an elite 111 after the first 150 hours.Seems only one set of settings for these people is posted.Are they the same to be used before and after the first 150 hours?

Those who choose not to use the recommended break-in procedure can try the other settings. However, I cannot guarantee that their panel would look the same as a panel that actually followed the recommended break-in procedure.
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post #138 of 11214 Old 07-29-2008, 06:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coltsfreak18 View Post

So can we have game AV mode settings???

I'm not a gamer so I don't plan on creating game settings. Also, most games do not follow the broadcast/film standards for color and grayscale so any real attempt to create gamer settings would probably be futile.
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post #139 of 11214 Old 07-29-2008, 06:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cuzzin View Post

So for the people who didn't use the Break-In disc, after 150 hours or so, we should switch to the "Pioneer 111FD/151FD Reference Settings (Break-in DVD/Thumbdrive Owners ONLY!!!!!!! ONLY use these settings after the 150 hour break-in period!!!!!!!!!)" settings?

Again, you can try them. However, I cannot guarantee that they will look the same as a panel that actually went thru the recommended break-in procedure.
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post #140 of 11214 Old 07-29-2008, 06:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chadmak09 View Post

By stretching 480i/p do you mean re-sizing it to fit the screen better or do you mean actually stretching/distorting the image (to where actors heads look too fat or too skinny).
I like using the Cinema screensize because it reduces the size of the black bars on 480i/p DVD movies. But it kinda looks as if it is stretching/distorting the image a little But it is hard to tell. Is it doing this?? Or is it Re-sizing the picture and cutting off some of the edges of the picture.

Thx,
The Chad

Stretching/distorting the image
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post #141 of 11214 Old 07-29-2008, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

I'm not a gamer so I don't plan on creating game settings. Also, most games do not follow the broadcast/film standards for color and grayscale so any real attempt to create gamer settings would probably be futile.

Oh ok. thanks

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post #142 of 11214 Old 07-29-2008, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

On the non-Elites, you can only choose one target white point. However, you will be able to achieve an identical grayscale compared to the Elite.

So are you saying that you can achieve on a regular bias identical grayscale compared to the Elite even when on the Elite you can use the ISFccc. And of course that is saying that you also use the CMS of the Elite. And even if you do end up with the same grayscale at what cost to the rest of components that go into a calibration.

And one other thing i am a little lost on is why On the non-Elites, you can only choose one target white point. Yes the target white point, i would think would be one at a time when determining what is best suited for the calibration and system you are working on.
And as long as we are on calibration what Gamma Target Exponent saying your using D65, HD Rec709 white point target do you use for your calibrations of a Kuro Pro-110/150

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post #143 of 11214 Old 07-30-2008, 05:53 AM
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I know this doesn't have to do with settings but is does right?

Does anyone have a suggestion for a respected calibrator for my 151 & audio in the Chicago area?

PSN: RE-VOLUTION
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post #144 of 11214 Old 07-30-2008, 07:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

So are you saying that you can achieve on a regular bias identical grayscale compared to the Elite even when on the Elite you can use the ISFccc.

Yes, but that doesn't include gamma

Quote:


And even if you do end up with the same grayscale at what cost to the rest of components that go into a calibration.

I don't understand what you are asking here. Can you clarify this question?

Quote:


And one other thing i am a little lost on is why On the non-Elites, you can only choose one target white point.

Because you do not RGB controls in the user menu/ISFccc controls for each picture mode/input. On the non-Elites, you only have one global RGB control set that affects every A/V mode on the panel.

Quote:


And as long as we are on calibration what Gamma Target Exponent saying your using D65, HD Rec709 white point target do you use for your calibrations of a Kuro Pro-110/150

2.22
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post #145 of 11214 Old 07-30-2008, 07:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serlenbeck View Post

I know this doesn't have to do with settings but is does right?

Does anyone have a suggestion for a respected calibrator for my 151 & audio in the Chicago area?

Jeff Meier.
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post #146 of 11214 Old 07-30-2008, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Again, you can try them. However, I cannot guarantee that they will look the same as a panel that actually went thru the recommended break-in procedure.

I wish that someone with an 'educated eye' who did not use the break-in disc procedure would change their reference settings to the post break-in disc settings and comment on the results.

-George
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post #147 of 11214 Old 07-30-2008, 08:12 AM
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ok i have a 5020..... now i heard that d nice or someone has used performance with some calibrated settings.. i love how performance looks the way i have it now is i have it set to contrast 42 tint red 5 color-1 sharpness -7 and film mode advance and i also have light room sensor on and that provides some real good settings...
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post #148 of 11214 Old 07-30-2008, 09:18 AM
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It doesn't take an educated eye to decipher the differences. Just go with which settings look best to you. Switch back and forth and see which ones look better and go with it.

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post #149 of 11214 Old 07-30-2008, 09:33 AM
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ok who here turns off room light sensor on or off... D nice do u have urs on off or on.. is it better to have it one way or the other
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post #150 of 11214 Old 07-30-2008, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serlenbeck View Post

I know this doesn't have to do with settings but is does right?

Does anyone have a suggestion for a respected calibrator for my 151 & audio in the Chicago area?

UMR is active in these threads. You can contact him here:

Jeff Meier (UMR at AVS)
www.accucalhd.com
[email protected]

You can find others by checking the calibration reports that are linked at the bottom of my post. Not everyone does both audio and video. I think Gregg Loewen and Michael Chen at Lion Audio Video Consultants do. Michael goes by "Michael TLV" here at AVS.

My Components:
Denon X3400H, OPPO UDP-203 & BDP-93, Xfinity XG1-P, Vizio PQ, Roku 3 & Ultra 2018
Calibration Resources:
Customer's Reports -- Professional Calibrations
Calibrator's locations and tour areas.
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