True 24fps on Plasmas - Which one? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 16 Old 12-02-2008, 02:02 PM - Thread Starter
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I wish certain manufactures would state "True" 24fps" on their set.

I recently bought the Samsung 50A400, not bad...but it won't display a 1080p/24p signal??? Sure, I understand that its only 720p but my Pio Elite 50 ' 720p (1150) does?

I'm guessing that I'm asking for the impossible of these companies to produce a true 24fps regardless from 480p DVD or Blu-ray or even HD-DVD.

I don't know if the A450 or A550 does a "True 24fps".

If it does, please tell or others???

Thanks.
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post #2 of 16 Old 12-02-2008, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockyroad2929 View Post

I wish certain manufactures would state "True" 24fps" on their set.

I recently bought the Samsung 50A400, not bad...but it won't display a 1080p/24p signal??? Sure, I understand that its only 720p but my Pio Elite 50 ' 720p (1150) does?

I'm guessing that I'm asking for the impossible of these companies to produce a true 24fps regardless from 480p DVD or Blu-ray or even HD-DVD.

I don't know if the A450 or A550 does a "True 24fps".

If it does, please tell or others???

Thanks.

The only plasma TVs currently on the market that does a "true 24fps" are the Pioneers (all models I believe) and the Panasonic Z800U and Z850U (but not the 80U or 85U). And the Panasonic ones suffer from flickering as they display 24fps inputs @ 48Hz (the Pioneer ones display 24fps @ 72Hz). In other words, the Samsung plasma TVs sold in the US do not display true 24fps (they do 2-3 pulldown to convert 24fps to 60Hz)

Also, to truly see the 24fps, even on the supported TVs, you have to connect it to a DVD/BD player that supports 24fps output.
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post #3 of 16 Old 12-03-2008, 07:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SJKel View Post

The only plasma TVs currently on the market that does a "true 24fps" are the Pioneers (all models I believe) and the Panasonic Z800U and Z850U (but not the 80U or 85U). And the Panasonic ones suffer from flickering as they display 24fps inputs @ 48Hz (the Pioneer ones display 24fps @ 72Hz). In other words, the Samsung plasma TVs sold in the US do not display true 24fps (they do 2-3 pulldown to convert 24fps to 60Hz)

Also, to truly see the 24fps, even on the supported TVs, you have to connect it to a DVD/BD player that supports 24fps output.

HI SJKel,

Thanks...that's what I thought. Depending on to return this Sumsung A400 then upgrade this unit to one of those.

Do all the Samsung do 2:3 pulldown...even the A700 series?

Yes, I knew about the 1080/24p on Blu-ray...that will support it.

thanks again.
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post #4 of 16 Old 12-04-2008, 01:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SJKel View Post

/snip/ In other words, the Samsung plasma TVs sold in the US do not display true 24fps (they do 2-3 pulldown to convert 24fps to 60Hz)

Also, to truly see the 24fps, even on the supported TVs, you have to connect it to a DVD/BD player that supports 24fps output.

Yep, feeding 24fps to the 450-series Sammy (looks smoother to my eye), so no 2-3 required. you are saying that Sammys just display it at 60, i.e., 24-60 when you choose film mode=auto in the menu?
Can you tell me what this conclusion is based upon? (no offense, I can find NO info on this subject).

"look, I can't think of another way to say this... when she said 'ohh, that is So Mac'...
welll... I'm pretty sure she didn't mean that as a compliment, ok?"

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post #5 of 16 Old 12-04-2008, 02:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phr3d View Post

Yep, feeding 24fps to the 450-series Sammy (looks smoother to my eye), so no 2-3 required. you are saying that Sammys just display it at 60, i.e., 24-60 when you choose film mode=auto in the menu?
Can you tell me what this conclusion is based upon? (no offense, I can find NO info on this subject).

It's a big marketing point if a TV can display true 24fps. Since Samsung doesn't emphasize it, it's extremely unlikely that they have that feature.
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post #6 of 16 Old 12-04-2008, 04:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phr3d View Post

Yep, feeding 24fps to the 450-series Sammy (looks smoother to my eye), so no 2-3 required. you are saying that Sammys just display it at 60, i.e., 24-60 when you choose film mode=auto in the menu?
Can you tell me what this conclusion is based upon? (no offense, I can find NO info on this subject).


Hi Phr3d,

You mean your feeding your A450 a 1080/24p signal and its properly displaying it? The A400 will only accept 720/60p signal from a blu-ray 1080/24p movie. It won't display the 1080/24p signal and downgrade it to 720p. It will diplay a 1080i or 480i/p signal...but no 1080/24p.

I'm basis this on the info guide from my blu ray player since I can switch the input to my Sammy A400. When I switch to 1080/24p signal...it gives my a "incomplete signal" or "no signal present". So, I have to pick one of the above setting to display it on this HDTV. Upscale DVD's suck. On my pioneer Elite Kuro, it looks very good. A shame.

Including my Zoom 1 or 2 doesn't work on either 480p or blu ray movies or even OTA channels that they broadcast crazy box trailers or commerical. Damm annoying.
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post #7 of 16 Old 12-04-2008, 11:23 PM
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yep, 1080p24, forced, i.e., 30fps movie-background clips look like hell, as they should on 24 forced.
hd-a30 to 450-HDMI2. (Sammy info pop-up reads 1080p 24Hz if anyone cares)
Blade Runner, Transformers, 2001 (most others) all look enough better that I notice when the HD-A30 has been changed back to auto for smoother background material play.
dunno -what- they are doing, but it is obvious when I am displaying 2:3, so it's an improvement to my untrained eye. Just trying to learn the -what-, lol.

"look, I can't think of another way to say this... when she said 'ohh, that is So Mac'...
welll... I'm pretty sure she didn't mean that as a compliment, ok?"

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post #8 of 16 Old 12-05-2008, 07:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phr3d View Post

yep, 1080p24, forced, i.e., 30fps movie-background clips look like hell, as they should on 24 forced.
hd-a30 to 450-HDMI2. (Sammy info pop-up reads 1080p 24Hz if anyone cares)
Blade Runner, Transformers, 2001 (most others) all look enough better that I notice when the HD-A30 has been changed back to auto for smoother background material play.
dunno -what- they are doing, but it is obvious when I am displaying 2:3, so it's an improvement to my untrained eye. Just trying to learn the -what-, lol.

Interesting...I don't have the HD-A30 but I have the HD-A20 but its not 1080/24p player...so it won't work out like you have. I do have the PS3 and I will try that...maybe that will accept the 1080/24p signal.

How does DVD's look on your set? DVD's look like crap on mine.

Thanks
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post #9 of 16 Old 12-05-2008, 08:24 AM
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If you want to know which TVs support 1080p/24 check out this thread on the blu ray forum. The OP does a really good job of keeping this thread up to date with the latest information. In the first three post he lists all of the current and non-current LCD, plasma, and front projectors that support 1080p. The only manufacturers that have built plasmas that support 1080p/24 are Pioneer, Panasonic, and Hitachi.

http: //forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=5155

To view the thread take the space out between the http: and the rest of the URL.
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post #10 of 16 Old 12-05-2008, 09:38 AM
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imo the 24p support on hdtv does not improve the viewing experience. i have a pioneer 151 (as well as an older 24p pioneer) and a bluray player. i have spent hours comparing the player outputing at both 24fps and 60fps. i prefer the performance of 60fps on all content. of course ymmv.
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post #11 of 16 Old 12-05-2008, 12:46 PM
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most recent 1080p tv's support 1080p/24, meaning they can accept the signal and then convert via 2:3 to 60Hz. only the panny 800u/850u and pio plasmas can display them at a multiple of 24fps (panny 48hz and pio 72hz).

however, panny has the dreaded flicker issue that bothers ppl enough that they leave it off. so pios seem to be the only game in town with truer 24fps playback. on the non-elites tho, it seems service-menu grayscale calibration settings do not carry over to the PureCinema Advanced mode, so you have to watch on default grayscale settings (which are very accurate too) if you want 72Hz playback.

seeing 1080p 24Hz on the pop-up info of your display does not mean you are getting 24fps, it simply means your tv can accept the signal coming from the player. it doesnt necessarily display it at said resolution/Hz.

like if you had a 720p tv that can accept 1080p signals and downconvert to 720p for display, it'd show 1080p instead of 720p in the pop up display. but you are still only seeing 720p regardless of the source.
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post #12 of 16 Old 12-05-2008, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkcheng122 View Post

most recent 1080p tv's support 1080p/24, meaning they can accept the signal and then convert via 2:3 to 60Hz. only the panny 800u/850u and pio plasmas can display them at a multiple of 24fps (panny 48hz and pio 72hz).

however, panny has the dreaded flicker issue that bothers ppl enough that they leave it off. so pios seem to be the only game in town with truer 24fps playback. on the non-elites tho, it seems service-menu grayscale calibration settings do not carry over to the PureCinema Advanced mode, so you have to watch on default grayscale settings (which are very accurate too) if you want 72Hz playback.

seeing 1080p 24Hz on the pop-up info of your display does not mean you are getting 24fps, it simply means your tv can accept the signal coming from the player. it doesnt necessarily display it at said resolution/Hz.



like if you had a 720p tv that can accept 1080p signals and downconvert to 720p for display, it'd show 1080p instead of 720p in the pop up display. but you are still only seeing 720p regardless of the source.

The new Hitachis also display at 48 - without flicker, per reports.

Go Duke !
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post #13 of 16 Old 12-05-2008, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkcheng122 View Post

most recent 1080p tv's support 1080p/24, meaning they can accept the signal and then convert via 2:3 to 60Hz.
/snip/
like if you had a 720p tv that can accept 1080p signals and downconvert to 720p for display, it'd show 1080p instead of 720p in the pop up display. but you are still only seeing 720p regardless of the source.

understood and ty, the Samsung 450 series Is a 720 plasma. What little I have found/read corresponds to glum's conclusion, 24fps makes little difference (Blu-ray as input).

That was why I decided to pursue it, but see that it's unlikely that anyone will have my odd-ball setup.

With a 720p display, I did not go in expecting to see a difference at all, let alone an improvement. Only after watching several movies over several nights did I notice when the 24 had been turned off on the A30 (1080p/24 vs 1080p/auto)
Film mode=auto is always on for the Sammy & the obvious question is 'does it do -anything-' lol.

I wouldn't be the first person to fool myself with new toys, obviously.

rockyroad, if you are asking how the A30 does upconverting DVDs, I use the oppo for that. The A30 seems to do a good job, but I hate the machine when compared to an oppo, so I use it only for HD. If you are asking if the 1080p24Hz setting 'improves' a good transfer DVD, I do not know.

"look, I can't think of another way to say this... when she said 'ohh, that is So Mac'...
welll... I'm pretty sure she didn't mean that as a compliment, ok?"

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post #14 of 16 Old 03-18-2009, 05:37 AM
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bumping old, I know - it turns out that the Sammy can do 120Hz to support its 3d wunderkind. So I am forced to wonder again if it IS doing something different with 24FPS input.

Have googled 'til my keys are worn, no info, and the experts are not remotely interested in this 'lame' Sammy, lol. But the press release states that the Sammy plasmas hafta' do 120Hz to support their 3d. If it's native to the process...

and I probably don't need to mention Sammy's customer service didn't...

(yes, I understand that the resolution is being converted to 1024, I am only referring to frame rate, as 24 -appears- better to my untrained eye, I -know- when it is on 'auto' and when it is forced 24 on an HD source, but thanx for all the guidance)

"look, I can't think of another way to say this... when she said 'ohh, that is So Mac'...
welll... I'm pretty sure she didn't mean that as a compliment, ok?"

carpe` cervesi
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post #15 of 16 Old 03-18-2009, 05:53 AM
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Just because the Sammy can do 120hz for 2 60hz 3D "streams" does not mean it will accept a 1080p24 input. Two different things.

larry

You've had too much to think.
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post #16 of 16 Old 03-18-2009, 07:51 AM
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When I bought the 450 I called customer support and asked what Hz they supported. The woman came back and said 60Hz. I said I know that it supports 60 Hz when used as a monitor, but what about HDMI? She came back after a while and said the TV supports 120Hz.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phr3d View Post

bumping old, I know - it turns out that the Sammy can do 120Hz to support its 3d wunderkind. So I am forced to wonder again if it IS doing something different with 24FPS input.

Have googled 'til my keys are worn, no info, and the experts are not remotely interested in this 'lame' Sammy, lol. But the press release states that the Sammy plasmas hafta' do 120Hz to support their 3d. If it's native to the process...

and I probably don't need to mention Sammy's customer service didn't...

(yes, I understand that the resolution is being converted to 1024, I am only referring to frame rate, as 24 -appears- better to my untrained eye, I -know- when it is on 'auto' and when it is forced 24 on an HD source, but thanx for all the guidance)

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