Panasonic 11G/12G/13G black levels have seemingly doubled overnight? - Page 383 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #11461 of 11971 Old 11-10-2014, 08:40 AM
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I can't believe how good this 2008 model TV looks. It is for the living room, not my main system, where viewing angles are very wide. No LCD can touch it.
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post #11462 of 11971 Old 11-10-2014, 09:32 AM
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I installed the PMCv1 on my 54G10 and restarted the tv, I had to slide the two switches to get rid of the red light. Wow what a difference! It was pretty unwatchable in the dark or with dark content. Now neither is a problem. Thanks audiodane and mironto for this fix. Yet another happy customer!(unit#23)
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post #11463 of 11971 Old 11-12-2014, 04:33 PM
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Glad to see that the "black resetter" idea has been successfully developed.

I'm "manually" resetting my 50G10 in regular basis from about 2 years without any problem, the image quality is still very good.

Without this fix this tv set would have left my living room long before ;-)
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post #11464 of 11971 Old 11-13-2014, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiodane View Post
Glad you're happy with your PMCv1! Sorry your old TV is better than your new TV now..

..dane
1 week later after installation...

I gotta say that that my PMCv1-equipped 46-G10 is way better than the 50-G20 when I bought it new.

Here's the issues I noticed (back in year 2010) and were apparent right out of the box with my G20...
- noticeable line bleed....... barely noticeable with my 46-G10)
- "pumping" blacks/brightness when scenes gets real dark....... none whatsoever with 46-G10
- "floating" blacks....... none with 46-G10
- "grainier picture when used as PC monitor with HDMI....... 46-G10 has almost no grain

The only thing the G20 has over the G10 is the capability to produce LCD-like light output in THX mode, with more headroom for light output adjustment. I have the living room 50-G20's contrast set to 68 and brightness to 58 to make this plasma shine during daytime.

The G10's light output in stock THX mode seems maxed out with no more room for adjustment, and it seems that G10 in THX mode is intended for night viewing only.
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post #11465 of 11971 Old 11-13-2014, 08:15 PM
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Panasonic 11G/12G/13G black levels have seemingly doubled overnight?

PZ80 is not very bright either, but enough for my darkish living room.

You have the G20 cranked up it will look more "grainy". Try lowering sharpness too, like 0. Make sure your changes are applied to ALL inputs, including the computer input.

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post #11466 of 11971 Old 11-17-2014, 05:36 AM
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Wow! I've been away from AVS for a while and just returned as I was thinking of replacing my 2009 TC-P50V10 due to the black level issue. Now I see this thread has been resurrected and that Dane has developed a solution! Of course, he's sold out right now. I voted for another batch on his website.

Dane - thanks for all the hard work and I look forward to another batch of PMCv1's so I can save a ton of money and get my beloved Panny plasma back!
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post #11467 of 11971 Old 11-17-2014, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyS View Post
Wow! I've been away from AVS for a while and just returned as I was thinking of replacing my 2009 TC-P50V10 due to the black level issue. Now I see this thread has been resurrected and that Dane has developed a solution! Of course, he's sold out right now. I voted for another batch on his website.

Dane - thanks for all the hard work and I look forward to another batch of PMCv1's so I can save a ton of money and get my beloved Panny plasma back!
Thanks Tony -- yes, more are coming..

Quick update- work is swamping me but I'm trying to get the preorder page up by thanksgiving.. subscribers to the email updates will get a short email later today with a tad more information..

cheers,
..dane
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post #11468 of 11971 Old 11-18-2014, 08:12 AM
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Some feedback from a french dude !
My tv is a 42pz81fv so I wasn't sure on the compatibility but wanted to try the device anyway until it ran out.
My tests are not conclusive for the moment. I had some trouble installing the device because I turned my tv off with the power button and the leds didn't light up. I put the tv in stand by mode and it seemed to work but I had to turn the tv off (with the power button) then back on. All this trouble caused a little bit of stress and I forgot how bright the black exactly were so I can't tell for the moment if the device is working or if t's just a placebo effect.

I'll try the calibration tools from a disney bluray and it should be more conclusive because I used them last weeks to adjust my set before I got the PMCv1.
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post #11469 of 11971 Old 11-18-2014, 05:26 PM
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I got more time with the set and it definetely improved my black levels.
Thanks audiodane for the good work. You can add the 42pz81fv to your list.
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post #11470 of 11971 Old 11-19-2014, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Me_Marcadet View Post
I had to turn the tv off (with the power button) then back on.

This is part of the procedure, documented in the instruction sheet and reported here many times.

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post #11471 of 11971 Old 11-20-2014, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyS View Post
Wow! I've been away from AVS for a while and just returned as I was thinking of replacing my 2009 TC-P50V10 due to the black level issue. Now I see this thread has been resurrected and that Dane has developed a solution! Of course, he's sold out right now. I voted for another batch on his website.

Dane - thanks for all the hard work and I look forward to another batch of PMCv1's so I can save a ton of money and get my beloved Panny plasma back!
I wanted to echo this comment. I had given up on my G10, and then I just came across this project. I'm excited to hear what happens with the second round. Thank you for all of your work!
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post #11472 of 11971 Old 11-20-2014, 02:43 PM
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46 inch G10 owner here. I can't wait for the 150 hours to kick in!
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post #11473 of 11971 Old 11-22-2014, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by AVfile View Post
This is part of the procedure, documented in the instruction sheet and reported here many times.
To be fair, it is not stated for the installation procedure but for the routine reset every 150h.
I'm just glad everything is working fine and my picture quality never been this great.
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post #11474 of 11971 Old 11-22-2014, 11:04 PM
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@ audiodane

1. What if I decided one day that I want to unplug and move my 46in G10 (with PMCv1) to another corner of my room. Will this affect the functionality of PMCv1

2. If I leave the 46in G10 turned on in HDMI input without signal (cable boxed turned off for example), does PMCv1 still count the hours?
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post #11475 of 11971 Old 11-25-2014, 03:45 AM
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Deep black returns,thanks!!Here is the result for Panasonic TX-P42VT20E.The before picture has some kind of image retention because i was in menu a lot of time.
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post #11476 of 11971 Old 11-25-2014, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Me_Marcadet View Post
To be fair, it is not stated for the installation procedure but for the routine reset every 150h.
I'm just glad everything is working fine and my picture quality never been this great.
I think there is also some information probably lost in translation .. I have several overseas customers who have had a few differences of opinion as to what some of the instructions meant. I speak English, Bad English, and Engineering.. Unfortunately the latter is most common and is probably the worst language of them all!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 34HFX83 View Post
@ audiodane

1. What if I decided one day that I want to unplug and move my 46in G10 (with PMCv1) to another corner of my room. Will this affect the functionality of PMCv1

2. If I leave the 46in G10 turned on in HDMI input without signal (cable boxed turned off for example), does PMCv1 still count the hours?
PMCv1 doesn't care where you put your TV or if it's left on or left off... However, the PMCv1 only has access to restore blacks when the TV is turned on. Once the TV is on, the PMCv1 doesn't have access to the necessary information until the next time the TV is turned on. Leaving the TV on is no problem. If the TV crosses the 150hr mark while on, the NEXT time it gets turned off and back on, the PMCv1 will restore the blacks again..

Quote:
Originally Posted by luis67 View Post
Deep black returns,thanks!!Here is the result for Panasonic TX-P42VT20E.The before picture has some kind of image retention because i was in menu a lot of time.
Great photos Luis67, thank you! I'll add them to the website later (but not tonight-- too busy). So glad you're happy with the device.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToddGsell View Post
I wanted to echo this comment. I had given up on my G10, and then I just came across this project. I'm excited to hear what happens with the second round. Thank you for all of your work!
Thanks Todd- It's "that time of year again," when I get swamped at work with deadlines over the holidays.. Here it is Tuesday night before Thanksgiving and I'm still at the office and probably will be until around 3-5am in the morning.. Another deadline will hit around Christmas.

I'm trying *SO* hard to get PMCv2 kicked off.. I might have to just go ahead and put up the preorder page so people aren't "left hanging." I was REALLY hoping to expedite the process and give everyone a nice holiday surprise, but work schedules have completely obliterated that chance, and I'm pretty bummed about it.

PMCv2 will be ever so slightly wider (0.75" instead of 0.6") to provide a little more durable protection during shipping... We've had at least three international units arrive in fairly beat up shape.. I will also be adding a couple lines of software that will utilize the second switch to turn off the LEDs, based on some of the user feedback that I've received about some people not liking them. Sorry, I can't easily make them "less bright," but I can "turn them off." I'm just hoping people don't think it's broken because there aren't any lights showing...

cheers,
..dane
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post #11477 of 11971 Old 11-29-2014, 02:25 AM
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Originally Posted by audiodane View Post
Thanks Tony -- yes, more are coming..

Quick update- work is swamping me but I'm trying to get the preorder page up by thanksgiving.. subscribers to the email updates will get a short email later today with a tad more information..

cheers,
..dane
I'm in the same situation as TonyS, been away from the site for quite some time. Checked back in to see if anything has been discovered and I find this gem!!! I signed up for your newletter on your site, and I am anxiously wating for the next batch to be ran. Thanks for all your hard work on this!!
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post #11478 of 11971 Old 11-30-2014, 07:54 PM
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In January 2009 I bought the 50" 850U model. By June or July I began to realize that the "black bars" on some movies seemed quite a bit lighter than they used to be. As time went on they became a (dark) charcoal grey. I could actually read a magazine sitting close with my back to the TV (without a signal)! Then I read about the black level issues on CNet. I was pretty unhappy after learning that the so-called "engineers" had programmed it that way, but I kept it because the picture was still great and I did mount a 6500k fluorescent light on the back of the set which helped a little. Fast forword to Dec. 2013. I bought a 60" ZT after hearing that Panasonic was ending production of plasmas and these were the "Kuro Killers" on black levels. I won't drag (or brag) on about the ZT accept to say the stories about picture quality and black levels are true.

Now . . . I had moved the 850U downstairs to my "cave" and placed a 25 watt lamp behind it, (I kept the 6500k mounted to the ZT). A week or so ago went down to the "cave" so my wife could watch "her shows" upstairs. I turned the 850U on and it looked different. Brighter, colors more saturated, and . . . the blacks seem much darker! At first I thought I had accidently switched to another mode. Nope, still on CUSTOM where I've always had it. Then I checked the settings and nothing was changed there either. The black bars come closer to (but not quite as) black as the bezel! I still have never checked the hours but I can safely say that they exceed 12, even 15,000. I'm retired and have a TV on most of the day, and when my wife gets home she has it on another 4+ hours. This set again was purchased in Jan. 2009. Has anyone out there ever heard of such as thing? This thing looks better than ever and as for sharp colors and contrast levels, it's a runner up to the ZT! I actually brought the color level down by several "clicks" on the older set.
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post #11479 of 11971 Old 11-30-2014, 09:25 PM
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^^^^ Maybe the wife meant to surprise you by putting in Audiodane's gadget and it worked....

The only thing I can think of is that your old set is now in a completely dark room and that is probably why your eyes are telling you that you're seeing better contrast all around
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post #11480 of 11971 Old 12-01-2014, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chere View Post
^^^^ Maybe the wife meant to surprise you by putting in Audiodane's gadget and it worked....

The only thing I can think of is that your old set is now in a completely dark room and that is probably why your eyes are telling you that you're seeing better contrast all around
The 850U has been in the "cave" since last December (2013). I just noticed the change a week ago.
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post #11481 of 11971 Old 12-02-2014, 06:48 PM
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I have a Panasonic TC46PGT24... Does this set have the same issue with the black levels?

If it's not a BIG screen, it's not a theater...
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post #11482 of 11971 Old 12-03-2014, 08:28 AM
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I have a Panasonic TC46PGT24... Does this set have the same issue with the black levels?
I googled that model and found NOTHING in regard to black level rise.
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post #11483 of 11971 Old 12-03-2014, 09:18 AM
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I have a Panasonic TC46PGT24... Does this set have the same issue with the black levels?
I guess you meant TC-P46GT24 which should be the same as GT25 but made specially for Cosco. It's 2010 model so it is affected (but probably with less coarse rise algorithm).

Panasonic plasma black level restoration
Step-by-step guide for restoring the initial MLL on a Panasonic G10 plasma

Last edited by mironto; 03-23-2015 at 04:53 AM.
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post #11484 of 11971 Old 12-03-2014, 10:59 AM
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Glad to see you're still participating Mironto.

Here's a thought for us DIYers:

I used the Arduino. If I don't physically remove it from my tv service connector the tv refuses to come on.

I wonder if there is a way to modify the code to make it run like Dane's unit does, where it polls the tv for number of hours and blasts it after 100.

Any thoughts on the ability to do that? My htpc is next to my tv, so providing power would be easy.

My basement media room and bar
Epson 2030, Onkyo TX-NR626, and Kodi based system

Mironto's Panasonic plasma black level restoration guide
Restore the initial MLL on a 2009 Panasonic plasma
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post #11485 of 11971 Old 12-03-2014, 12:56 PM
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Hello Pittsoccer, the TV won't turn on, because by connecting the Arduino (even powered down) you are grounding I2C Control pin (both pins 3 and 10 connected to GND on Arduino) which sends a signal to the TV that there's request to access I2C bus. You would have to connect pin 10 to some other pin on Arduino, which it can ground via SW command. I guess this could be possible as the little board has lots of other functions but the other thing is, there is pretty tight scheduling with the signals on the bus, where you can access I2C bus, read out the value and disconnect the bus for the TV to turn on without going to black screen.

Check Audiodane's history blog for more info
http://audiodane.dandk.org/category/...ic-mll/page/4/

Panasonic plasma black level restoration
Step-by-step guide for restoring the initial MLL on a Panasonic G10 plasma

Last edited by mironto; 12-03-2014 at 03:54 PM.
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post #11486 of 11971 Old 12-03-2014, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mironto View Post
I guess you meant TC-P46GT24 which should be the same as GT25 but made specially for Cosco. It's 2010 model so it is affected (but probably with less coarse rise algorithm).
Thanks

If it's not a BIG screen, it's not a theater...
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post #11487 of 11971 Old 12-08-2014, 01:05 PM
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Hello everyone. I just wanted to let everyone know (who isn't subscribing to email updates) that the PMCv2 preorder page is now live. Order fulfillment is anticipated February 2015.

cheers,
..dane
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post #11488 of 11971 Old 12-08-2014, 01:39 PM
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Preorder

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiodane View Post
Hello everyone. I just wanted to let everyone know (who isn't subscribing to email updates) that the PMCv2 preorder page is now live. Order fulfillment is anticipated February 2015.

cheers,
..dane
Ordered mine today, and I can't wait!! Thanks again for all your effort!!

Vern
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post #11489 of 11971 Old 12-12-2014, 09:36 PM
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I received an email from a PMCv1 customer recently concerned that they hadn't observed the 150hr re-clear event yet, but they were sure that it has been more than 150hrs. I shared his concern for my own TV, which clearly is still maintaining its black level properly, but I don't recall having to do the power on-power off-power on thing again lately. I asked my wife if her or the kids have noticed the TV "not coming on" recently, and she said no (but then again, they're kids, so...)

On my particular unit, I've had an SD-Card based log attached for several months, and so I was able to pull off the log file and have a look at it. I have not yet had a chance to study it fully, but I was able to confirm in fact that my set was re-cleared recently, even though it did not seem to require the power cycling again like when first installed..

I wanted to ask if anyone else is pretty sure that their TV has accrued at least 150hrs since installing the PMCv1, and that they can clearly tell the black levels are still "good" even though they have NOT had to turn the TV off and on again due to the expected re-clearing event?

thanks,
..dane
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post #11490 of 11971 Old 12-13-2014, 06:22 AM
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I couldn't state unoquivicolly that I have enough hours, but I feel like I'm in the same boat as you.
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