Official Panasonic 2012 Lineup and Information Thread [No Price Talk] - Page 17 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #481 of 1640 Old 03-11-2012, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by nin1974 View Post

BB had the 50UT50 in this weeks Flyer here in MASS

They're in stores now, both of my local stores has them on (UT50) on display. As I'm an owner of an S I went to look at it.

Overall: who the **** knows. Seriously, looking at TVs in a warehouse store is about as useless as trying to listen to speakers in a warehouse store-- quality is impossible to discern and whatever's brightest/loudest wins out. For what it's worth, it looked a LOT like my S... Which is to say absolutely terrible under the bright store lighting. The lack of panasonic's louver filter means the set can't compete with bright overhead lighting making the color appear washed out and the dark areas betraying the grey plasma screen beneath the glass.

As for the set itself, Panasonic has followed the recent trend towards shrinking the bezel-- a welcome design direction. The border around the screen is nice and trim especially for a budget model. The bottom has a little 'chin' area which juts out towards the user and appears to house the IR transmitter for the remote and 3d glasses. There is no speaker grille here which likely means that built in audio will continue it's slide towards irrelevance. While the bezel is nice and slim the set itself is not, the UT looks noticeably more chunky than my S from the side; although this is one of those things that concerns me about as much as the question: are we consuming too much soy as a culture? About the only negative I could level against it is the thin strip of clear plastic edging that has been glued to the outside border of the bezel. It looks dumb. It seems that this is a design 'trend' that will find it's way onto most of panasonic's 2012 lineup... Yeah, I don't know what they were thinking.

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post #482 of 1640 Old 03-11-2012, 06:53 PM
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[quote=DoctorM;21759130]@Wizziwig:

Btw, and I'm just talking out of my butt here, but I remember reading at one point that the S30 exhibited a more vibrant picture than the ST30 because it lacked the infinite black filter.

As I just exchanged my S30 for an ST30, I can say that both sets are very similar in brightness. I don't have anything other than my own opinion to base this on, so take it with a grain of salt. The ST30 might be marginally darker, but not much

On the same note, I didn't notice much difference in the AR properties from one set to the other, so maybe my eyes aren't as good as I think they are.

I will say however, despite that I have not calibrated the ST30 yet, It does appear to have more accurate colors and a slightly better overall picture. Again, huge grain of salt here.
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post #483 of 1640 Old 03-11-2012, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by DoctorM View Post

Oh, dtbreen76, I see no reason why a December model wouldn't have the FBr fix.

My father's ST is a nov build, I think, an it exhibits the fbr. My dec build S exhibits fbr. As far as I know the 'fix' for this didn't fix anything at all.

What to do if you find yourself stuck with no hope of rescue:
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post #484 of 1640 Old 03-12-2012, 06:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by sage11x View Post

My father's ST is a nov build, I think, an it exhibits the fbr. My dec build S exhibits fbr. As far as I know the 'fix' for this didn't fix anything at all.

It's already been established long ago that while the "fix" greatly reduced the presence of FBr, it didn't completely eliminate it, but it's not like it didn't fix "anything at all" because for the more part, it did. Most who have updated their affected TVs reported a huge reduction in FBr. I have not seen any FBr on my 3 friends' ST30s, and on one of them we've looked for it several times and didn't notice one instance of it.

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post #485 of 1640 Old 03-12-2012, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

It's already been established long ago that while the "fix" greatly reduced the presence of FBr, it didn't completely eliminate it, but it's not like it didn't fix "anything at all" because for the more part, it did. Most who have updated their affected TVs reported a huge reduction in FBr. I have not seen any FBr on my 3 friends' ST30s, and on one of them we've looked for it several times and didn't notice one instance of it.

I find that fbr is something you'll never see when looking for it... Instead, it blindsides you in the middle of your favorite show on a close up of the main character during a pivotal plot development-- just absolutely sucks you out of the program, too! Lol!

To me, fix means it's FIXED-- as in, it don't happen no more.
Let me use this example: say you take your car in to get it repaired-- let's say you're getting new brakes-- and when your mechanic returns the car to you the next day you notice that he only fixed ONE SIDE... Lol! Now, your mechanic uses THAT definition of "fixed" and explains that he did repair the one side and points out that the car stops a lot better with one good brake than none!

No, sorry, fbr hasn't been fixed. My suggestion to owners or prospective buyers of 2011 sets is learn to live with it or buy something else. It's 2012 now so any issues still kicking around are just that: issues. Not defects.

What to do if you find yourself stuck with no hope of rescue:
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post #486 of 1640 Old 03-12-2012, 08:29 AM
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Still waiting for the ST50 at Best Buy Anyone on the inside know when they'll be coming in? Seems like everyone else has them.
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post #487 of 1640 Old 03-12-2012, 09:30 AM
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I've decided to put off my decision to purchase the GT50 until after April 6th to see other opinions of it first. In the meantime, I've ordered a new OPPO-93 blu-ray/sacd player.
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post #488 of 1640 Old 03-12-2012, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by aggybong View Post

Still waiting for the ST50 at Best Buy Anyone on the inside know when they'll be coming in? Seems like everyone else has them.

Here in Canada, Best Buy and FutureShop (which BB owns) have just about pushed all their 2011 stocks from their central warehouses into the stores. There are only a handful of units left at the warehouses, mostly the 60inch+ models, making room for the 2012s. I presume they're waiting to clear out old stocks first, at both store level and distribution centers, before getting the 2012 models but who knows if the hold up is from BB or Panasonic. I'm anxiously waiting for the new models to exchange my defective G15. But I'll be waiting a while longer as I have to sit tight till the G50s arrive.
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post #489 of 1640 Old 03-12-2012, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by sage11x View Post

I find that fbr is something you'll never see when looking for it... Instead, it blindsides you in the middle of your favorite show on a close up of the main character during a pivotal plot development-- just absolutely sucks you out of the program, too! Lol!

To me, fix means it's FIXED-- as in, it don't happen no more.
Let me use this example: say you take your car in to get it repaired-- let's say you're getting new brakes-- and when your mechanic returns the car to you the next day you notice that he only fixed ONE SIDE... Lol! Now, your mechanic uses THAT definition of "fixed" and explains that he did repair the one side and points out that the car stops a lot better with one good brake than none!

No, sorry, fbr hasn't been fixed. My suggestion to owners or prospective buyers of 2011 sets is learn to live with it or buy something else. It's 2012 now so any issues still kicking around are just that: issues. Not defects.

I would never dispute what you're experiencing -- everyone's eyes are different -- but personally, I don't see any FBr after the fix. My eyes are pretty sensitive. Perhaps yours are more.
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post #490 of 1640 Old 03-12-2012, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by sage11x View Post

I find that fbr is something you'll never see when looking for it... Instead, it blindsides you in the middle of your favorite show on a close up of the main character during a pivotal plot development-- just absolutely sucks you out of the program, too! Lol!

To me, fix means it's FIXED-- as in, it don't happen no more.
Let me use this example: say you take your car in to get it repaired-- let's say you're getting new brakes-- and when your mechanic returns the car to you the next day you notice that he only fixed ONE SIDE... Lol! Now, your mechanic uses THAT definition of "fixed" and explains that he did repair the one side and points out that the car stops a lot better with one good brake than none!

No, sorry, fbr hasn't been fixed. My suggestion to owners or prospective buyers of 2011 sets is learn to live with it or buy something else. It's 2012 now so any issues still kicking around are just that: issues. Not defects.

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I would never dispute what you're experiencing -- everyone's eyes are different -- but personally, I don't see any FBr after the fix. My eyes are pretty sensitive. Perhaps yours are more.

I will be happy if it is just significantly reduced as Randy Walters suggested. It was something I was obviously very sensitive to and it was downright distracting on my S30. I have not watched much so far on my ST30 yet, but if it happens less often or with much less severity, I will have made the right move in spending the extra $300. I figure it was a great deal on the ST, in fact, too good to pass up.
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post #491 of 1640 Old 03-12-2012, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by dtbreen76 View Post

I will be happy if it is just significantly reduced as Randy Walters suggested. It was something I was obviously very sensitive to and it was downright distracting on my S30. I have not watched much so far on my ST30 yet, but if it happens less often or with much less severity, I will have made the right move in spending the extra $300. I figure it was a great deal on the ST, in fact, too good to pass up.

You got a good deal on that set. Hopefully it will be an improvement over what you had. The blacks should be an obvious improvement as they were to me ( over the s30).
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post #492 of 1640 Old 03-12-2012, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by MrVizio View Post

You got a good deal on that set. Hopefully it will be an improvement over what you had. The blacks should be an obvious improvement as they were to me ( over the s30).

Yeah, I am happy already. 5" increase in size, 3D capability and what appears to be greatly reduced if not eliminated FBr..... I am already a pig in slop!

I believe the increased black level performance is probably the contributing factor to the improved PQ I have noticed....I was having trouble determining why I felt the picture was better and that may be it...that or color accuracy.

This is by far the best tv for $999 I have ever owned....
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post #493 of 1640 Old 03-12-2012, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by MrVizio View Post


You got a good deal on that set. Hopefully it will be an improvement over what you had. The blacks should be an obvious improvement as they were to me ( over the s30).

That's funny. Lights on I agree with your statement. Lights off I actually think the blacks are darker on my S! Perhaps model to model variation? Either way the dark room black level is likely too close to measure...

What to do if you find yourself stuck with no hope of rescue:
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post #494 of 1640 Old 03-12-2012, 04:10 PM
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That's funny. Lights on I agree with your statement. Lights off I actually think the blacks are darker on my S! Perhaps model to model variation? Either way the dark room black level is likely too close to measure...

well, like I say, there is something about the picture on the ST that I think gives it a slight edge. It is either the black levels or the color accuracy, or perhaps a very small amount of both. But on paper it is probably not a big difference either way. My gut tells me that the ST will produce a little more accurate colors after calibration. I haven't spent enough time with the ST nor is it even broken in or calibrated yet. I will reserve my .02 until after I have spent more time with it and it is calibrated.

Because of what I have read, I was expecting the AR to be a bigger difference than it really is, at least in my environment. I can't really say there is a noticeable brightness difference either way.
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post #495 of 1640 Old 03-12-2012, 06:07 PM
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well, like I say, there is something about the picture on the ST that I think gives it a slight edge. It is either the black levels or the color accuracy, or perhaps a very small amount of both. But on paper it is probably not a big difference either way. My gut tells me that the ST will produce a little more accurate colors after calibration. I haven't spent enough time with the ST nor is it even broken in or calibrated yet. I will reserve my .02 until after I have spent more time with it and it is calibrated.

Because of what I have read, I was expecting the AR to be a bigger difference than it really is, at least in my environment. I can't really say there is a noticeable brightness difference either way.

Oh-- no question the ST looks better. The differences are subtle in cinema but the simple fact that the ST doesn't clip white in custom or game is a HUGE boon.

Anyone have a review of the ST yet? I saw Robert Zohn's quick take but that's all...

What to do if you find yourself stuck with no hope of rescue:
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post #496 of 1640 Old 03-12-2012, 06:58 PM - Thread Starter
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To me, fix means it's FIXED-- as in, it don't happen no more.

Again, nobody in the know is saying it was fixed so i don't see why you're persisting. Greatly reduced yes, fixed no. I've spent hours watching one friend's ST30 (Sept build) and didn't see one instance of FBr. That's not to say it won't happen when watching certain content but i was waiting for it and he's been living with TV for over a few months now and says he hasn't noticed any such behavior even though he knows about the issue and pretty much knows what to look for.

Quote:


Let me use this example: say you take your car in to get it repaired-- let's say you're getting new brakes-- and when your mechanic returns the car to you the next day you notice that he only fixed ONE SIDE... Lol! Now, your mechanic uses THAT definition of "fixed" and explains that he did repair the one side and points out that the car stops a lot better with one good brake than none!

Your car analogy is over-the-top and not even close to being equitable with the FBr issue. Having brakes on only one side would be obvious as soon as the car is driven out of the service bay and it would be completely undriveable.

A better car analogy is you have a good German sports sedan that normally drives fantastic and runs smoothly, but while driving in certain conditions the engine randomly stumbles here and there and takes you by surprise. The car maker identifies the problem and flashes the firmware on the engine management computer which greatly reduces the frequency and the severity of the stumble to the point that it's now almost a non-issue. Not quite fixed, but is now a lot less intrusive and less frequent.


Quote:


No, sorry, fbr hasn't been fixed. My suggestion to owners or prospective buyers of 2011 sets is learn to live with it or buy something else.

What about the vast majority of owners of 2011 Pannys that are not seeing FBr at all? Should they have bought something else? Like maybe a Sammy with the brightness pops? Or LG Plasma with poor black levels that are there constantly? Or maybe downgrade to an LCD?


Quote:


It's 2012 now so any issues still kicking around are just that: issues. Not defects.

So you're already condemning the new 2012 models based on an issue that was present on some of last year's units?

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post #497 of 1640 Old 03-12-2012, 08:14 PM
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So you're already condemning the new 2012 models based on an issue that was present on some of last year's units?

No. I was saying that anyone holding out for a fix on their 2011 Panasonic for any issue already identified as endemic of the line should reply to this message with their name, address and bank account information because, man, I got something great to sell them!

Also, I like my example better as it doesn't discriminate-- my car could have been American, Korean, etc (though everyone knows it was Japanese)... Although on further analysis your example DOES make more sense because you're WAY more likely to have those kind of niggling, sporadic and annoying issues with a German car...

What to do if you find yourself stuck with no hope of rescue:
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post #498 of 1640 Old 03-12-2012, 09:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sage11x View Post

I find that fbr is something you'll never see when looking for it... Instead, it blindsides you in the middle of your favorite show on a close up of the main character during a pivotal plot development-- just absolutely sucks you out of the program, too! Lol!

To me, fix means it's FIXED-- as in, it don't happen no more.
Let me use this example: say you take your car in to get it repaired-- let's say you're getting new brakes-- and when your mechanic returns the car to you the next day you notice that he only fixed ONE SIDE... Lol! Now, your mechanic uses THAT definition of "fixed" and explains that he did repair the one side and points out that the car stops a lot better with one good brake than none!

No, sorry, fbr hasn't been fixed. My suggestion to owners or prospective buyers of 2011 sets is learn to live with it or buy something else. It's 2012 now so any issues still kicking around are just that: issues. Not defects.

I haven't seen any fluctuations on a blu-ray since receiving the patch. Cable/satellite/streaming is garbage and using it as your reference material for FBr makes no sense. Please get your father to join the forum and post his thoughts on his ST30 and let us know which blu-rays exhibit FBr. Your S30 model isn't even involved in the patch discussion.

This thread is dedicated to the 2012 lineup, so it would be best to talk about the new models that seem very nice.
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post #499 of 1640 Old 03-12-2012, 10:39 PM
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I haven't seen any fluctuations on a blu-ray since receiving the patch. Cable/satellite/streaming is garbage and using it as your reference material for FBr makes no sense. Please get your father to join the forum and post his thoughts on his ST30 and let us know which blu-rays exhibit FBr. Your S30 model isn't even involved in the patch discussion.

This thread is dedicated to the 2012 lineup, so it would be best to talk about the new models that seem very nice.

Jesus. Tfoltz, I have no urge to argue with you. You like to pick fights and honestly you exhaust me. I'm not trying to cause a stir I was simply responding to a comment that fbr has been fixed. It hasn't. Sorry, but it hasn't. You don't notice it now? Great. Fantastic. Congratulations. I do. I've seen it on my fathers ST while watching sucker punch, Babylon AD and Rise of the planet of the Apes. I *thought I saw it during Tron Legacy on my S and know I saw it during Dark Knight, Scott Pilgrim was seemingly fbr free. Both sets are recent builds and both have been updated to the latest firmware. If it makes you feel better: he barely notices the fbr-- leading me to believe I may be more sensitive to it than most. Interestingly enough I didn't notice the giant green ****ing blob in the middle of my first set until my dad pointed it out to me so it just goes to show you can be particular about the things that bother you.

Anyway. Back to your regular scheduled programming.

What to do if you find yourself stuck with no hope of rescue:
Consider yourself lucky that life has been good to you so far. Alternatively, if life hasn't been good to you so far, which given your present circumstances seems to be more likely, consider yourself lucky that it won't be troubling you much longer...

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post #500 of 1640 Old 03-13-2012, 12:14 PM
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The one feature that has me considering the GT50 over the ST50 is the sets' shades of gradation. The ST50 has 12,286 shades of gradation while the GT50 has 24,576. I'm wondering how obvious this will be when comparing the two sets. The one issue I've always had with plasmas is the color banding (in sunset scenes or any other scenes where there is fading to black or other color blending).

I believe I've read the ST50 has double the shades of gradation when compared to the ST30, so it's already an upgrade. Just wondering how noticeable this feature is.
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post #501 of 1640 Old 03-13-2012, 12:23 PM
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Niether feature is really worth anything. Color banding will exist on all 2012 Pansonic display.

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The one feature that has me considering the GT50 over the ST50 is the sets' shades of gradation. The ST50 has 12,286 shades of gradation while the GT50 has 24,576. I'm wondering how obvious this will be when comparing the two sets. The one issue I've always had with plasmas is the color banding (in sunset scenes or any other scenes where there is fading to black or other color blending).

I believe I've read the ST50 has double the shades of gradation when compared to the ST30, so it's already an upgrade. Just wondering how noticeable this feature is.

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post #502 of 1640 Old 03-13-2012, 12:39 PM
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Niether feature is really worth anything. Color banding will exist on all 2012 Pansonic display.

Can you explain the technical reason as to why the feature isn't worth anything?

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post #503 of 1640 Old 03-13-2012, 12:43 PM
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Let Panasonic explain the techincal reason. The reality is, I have yet to see improvements with said claims of increased graduations with real world content.... which... btw only exists in Cinema mode.
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Can you explain the technical reason as to why the feature isn't worth anything?

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post #504 of 1640 Old 03-13-2012, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Let Panasonic explain the techincal reason. The reality is, I have yet to see improvements with said claims of increased graduations with real world content.... which... btw only exists in Cinema mode.

The poster was referencing the GT50 which I'm assuming you haven't seen yet, or have you?
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post #505 of 1640 Old 03-13-2012, 01:07 PM
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The panel is the same so the differences between them(st/gt) are not major in this regard..
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post #506 of 1640 Old 03-13-2012, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by johnblowcls View Post

The panel is the same so the differences between them(st/gt) are not major in this regard..

Understood, but the poster above was asking, I presume, because Panasonic has listed the GT50 as having "24,576 Shades of Gradation" while the ST50 does not.
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post #507 of 1640 Old 03-13-2012, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by johnblowcls View Post

The panel is the same so the differences between them(st/gt) are not major in this regard..

Same panel, but the GT has double the gradation steps of the ST. Whether this makes a difference or not is the question. I kinda doubt it will make a noticeable difference.

I was leaning towards the GT50, but the ST50 seems to have the better value again this year.
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post #508 of 1640 Old 03-13-2012, 01:30 PM
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So would you recommend getting

1.TH-60PF30U commercial monitor
2.Gt30 at reduced $
3St50

I have my heart on either the GT30 or new ST50....but looked into the TH-60PF30U and its seems like a nice set that would last me a long time.

There isnt much info about the TH-60PF30U and the 65" vx300 is too much at this time as far as size and $

Tried not to involve moneyin the conversation..just need advice
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post #509 of 1640 Old 03-13-2012, 01:42 PM
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I know nothing about their commercial displays. But between the ST50 and GT30, I would definitely get the ST50, pending any issues that popup on the 2012 line.
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post #510 of 1640 Old 03-13-2012, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by rahzel View Post

I know nothing about their commercial displays. But between the ST50 and GT30, I would definitely get the ST50, pending any issues that popup on the 2012 line.

Thanks for the reply, can fid any forum discussions aboutthe TH-60PF30U

except pannys link

http://www.panasonic.com/business/plasma/TH-60PF30U.asp

seems like a brick [email protected]# house of a monitor
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