Official Panasonic TC-PxxST60 Series thread - Page 468 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #14011 of 14104 Old 03-21-2019, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by merrymaid520 View Post
Hey guys,
Thinking of making the jump into 4k and unfortunately having to sell my ST60 60" Plasma Anyone have an idea of what it might be worth on the used market? I have the original box, remote, stand, etc. Just trying to gauge its value so I can plan for the upgrade costs.

Thanks!
I haven't been on this site for ever. I have the st60. lots of hours on it. somewhere I found a spread sheet of at least 12 posts of different on line settings that included less hrs and 2,000 hr + settings. most are rather close but as stated, a couple of clicks in some areas can make a big difference. I tried and used the standard settings; Dnice, Cnet, ET, for the first couple of years of use. then I found and settled on settings from a post through Amazon, I believe poster was along the lines of something like McCanic??? (I could dig most of this up and PM the settings). the key here was this setting eliminated a red push in dark outer space type movies, black screens etc. a simple couple of clicks reducing red gain. This setting has been the best, and I used it for years. then a few months ago I tried going through a lot of settings again just wondering if the hours of usage required a picture tune up. End of story, I switched settings to Cinema, using the McCanic basic setting but added some of usual no no enhancements. Also, instead of using a calibration disk I also upped the brightness and contract using those dark scenes as a base line, toggling between Cinema and Custom settings i had been using for a couple of years. Best picture yet. I fine tuned it using some of the Orville space scenes and others other dark content. I watch golf too and there is no problem with greens, the golf picture in general.



I think the ST60 is still a great TV compared with 80% of whats out there and I would not sell it. Retention with the Dish logo sometimes drives me nuts, but that is about it. and Merrymaides, somehow I think we meet or PM'd before as I live in Brookfield, or I just remember your earlier posts?
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post #14012 of 14104 Old 03-21-2019, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by papaslake View Post
I haven't been on this site for ever. I have the st60. lots of hours on it. somewhere I found a spread sheet of at least 12 posts of different on line settings that included less hrs and 2,000 hr + settings. most are rather close but as stated, a couple of clicks in some areas can make a big difference. I tried and used the standard settings; Dnice, Cnet, ET, for the first couple of years of use. then I found and settled on settings from a post through Amazon, I believe poster was along the lines of something like McCanic??? (I could dig most of this up and PM the settings). the key here was this setting eliminated a red push in dark outer space type movies, black screens etc. a simple couple of clicks reducing red gain. This setting has been the best, and I used it for years. then a few months ago I tried going through a lot of settings again just wondering if the hours of usage required a picture tune up. End of story, I switched settings to Cinema, using the McCanic basic setting but added some of usual no no enhancements. Also, instead of using a calibration disk I also upped the brightness and contract using those dark scenes as a base line, toggling between Cinema and Custom settings i had been using for a couple of years. Best picture yet. I fine tuned it using some of the Orville space scenes and others other dark content. I watch golf too and wthere is no problem with greens, the golf picture in general.



I think the ST60 is still a great TV compared with 80% of whats out there and I would not sell it. Retention with the Dish logo sometimes drives me nuts, but that is about it. and Merrymaides, somehow I think we meet or PM'd before as I live in Brookfield, or I just remember your earlier posts?
Hello,
Well I ended up keeping the ST60 and moved it to my bedroom. I couldn’t part with it. Yes, I’m local! Live in Mukwonago and work in Brookfield! Hope all is well.
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post #14013 of 14104 Old 03-23-2019, 11:16 AM
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New KILLA Gamma 2.1 calibration settings for the ST60..


Also with calibration pictures so you can see what is going on..


Most important rule on the ST60.. Use custom mode only.. This mode is a bit limited in light output, but the increased light output on cinema mode comes with a huge cost.. unstable gamma.. impossible to calibrate..


Ok.. Switch to cinema mode.. Stock 2.2. gamma..


This is what you get..


Way too much bright dark details.. and an extreme crooked gamma curve..
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2013 Panasonic TX-P42X60E PDP
2013 Panasonic TX-P42STW60 PDP
ST60 Settings: Custom Mode, Contrast 60 = 100nits peak brightness aka Filmmaker Mode, Panel Brightness Medium
Gamma 2.4, Gamma settings: 10% -30, 80% +3
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post #14014 of 14104 Old 03-23-2019, 11:20 AM
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Here is the game changer..


Ever wondered why there is a 100% gamma control?


It changes the whole gamma curve.. Now change 100% stimulus gamma to -4...


Wow..


Almost flat.. Ignore the brightness boost at 90%.. you will not see it..
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2013 Panasonic TX-P42X60E PDP
2013 Panasonic TX-P42STW60 PDP
ST60 Settings: Custom Mode, Contrast 60 = 100nits peak brightness aka Filmmaker Mode, Panel Brightness Medium
Gamma 2.4, Gamma settings: 10% -30, 80% +3
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post #14015 of 14104 Old 03-23-2019, 11:24 AM
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But there is this brightness boost at 10% and also a bit at 20%


Here the final result..


10: -40
20: -7
30 -5


Everything else stock.. (except 100, but we have changed that already)


Flat 2.1 gamma..


With the limited light output this is a very universal and nice gamma setting for ST60..


Again.. Try it out and let me know..
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2013 Panasonic TX-P42X60E PDP
2013 Panasonic TX-P42STW60 PDP
ST60 Settings: Custom Mode, Contrast 60 = 100nits peak brightness aka Filmmaker Mode, Panel Brightness Medium
Gamma 2.4, Gamma settings: 10% -30, 80% +3
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post #14016 of 14104 Old 03-23-2019, 12:43 PM
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And here is the difference between -30 vs 50 at 10%


- 50 black crush.. - 30 is actually really good.. BT 1886 level.. but.. -40 is the sweet spot.. so just try.. -30 or 40.. what you prefer
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2013 Panasonic TX-P42X60E PDP
2013 Panasonic TX-P42STW60 PDP
ST60 Settings: Custom Mode, Contrast 60 = 100nits peak brightness aka Filmmaker Mode, Panel Brightness Medium
Gamma 2.4, Gamma settings: 10% -30, 80% +3
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post #14017 of 14104 Old 03-23-2019, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Bruce2019 View Post
And here is the difference between -30 vs 50 at 10%


- 50 black crush.. - 30 is actually really good.. BT 1886 level.. but.. -40 is the sweet spot.. so just try.. -30 or 40.. what you prefer
Trying to post some thoughts the other day I misspoke on settings. I actually should have said Home Theater. these are the settings that I use. Using BLK LVL DARK might be controversial. I kept changing brightness, contrast toggling between them and then added the Black Level Dark. a few more changes to the brightness and contrast and I am very happy with these. I think it is personal preference between the best black and a brighter overall picture which is what I get on these settings.
One other potential reason for different settings. I run everything through an old Pioneer Elite AVR that can only pass 1080i. I use a good Pioneer Elite Blue Ray but set it for 1080i. Does it make a difference? I don't know.
Chris

Home Theater
Contrast - 79
Brightness- 15
Color- 50
Tint- +1
Sharpness - 0
Color temp Warm 2
Vivid - 0ff
CATS off
Video NR off
MPNR weak
Motion weak
Advanced
3:2 auto
HDMI auto
HDMI range STD
BLK LVL- Dark
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post #14018 of 14104 Old 03-23-2019, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Bruce2019 View Post
And here is the difference between -30 vs 50 at 10%


- 50 black crush.. - 30 is actually really good.. BT 1886 level.. but.. -40 is the sweet spot.. so just try.. -30 or 40.. what you prefer
bruce 2019 can you post all of the settings, top to bottom, on one page. I'd like to try them.
thanks
Chris
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post #14019 of 14104 Old 03-24-2019, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by papaslake View Post
bruce 2019 can you post all of the settings, top to bottom, on one page. I'd like to try them.
thanks
Chris

Gamma Detail adjustment:


Gamma 2.2


10: -40
20: -7
30 -5
40: 0
50: 0
60: 0
70:0
80:0
90:0
100: -4


Brightness: Leave it on Zero.. Do you really have brightness 15?


This seems wrong.. Check your RGB full/limited settings..

2013 Panasonic TX-P42X60E PDP
2013 Panasonic TX-P42STW60 PDP
ST60 Settings: Custom Mode, Contrast 60 = 100nits peak brightness aka Filmmaker Mode, Panel Brightness Medium
Gamma 2.4, Gamma settings: 10% -30, 80% +3
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post #14020 of 14104 Old 03-24-2019, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Bruce2019 View Post
Gamma Detail adjustment:


Gamma 2.2


10: -40
20: -7
30 -5
40: 0
50: 0
60: 0
70:0
80:0
90:0
100: -4


Brightness: Leave it on Zero.. Do you really have brightness 15?


This seems wrong.. Check your RGB full/limited settings..
sent you a PM Bruce if you didn't get it let me know. Not sure I have the authorization to send it. I was actually on this site YEARS ago, but re-registered when I lost all of my log in info.
Chris
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post #14021 of 14104 Old 03-24-2019, 12:34 PM
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sent you a PM Bruce if you didn't get it let me know. Not sure I have the authorization to send it. I was actually on this site YEARS ago, but re-registered when I lost all of my log in info.
Chris

No, I got nothing.. But I have you sent you one, so you could reply to that.. Hope that works..

2013 Panasonic TX-P42X60E PDP
2013 Panasonic TX-P42STW60 PDP
ST60 Settings: Custom Mode, Contrast 60 = 100nits peak brightness aka Filmmaker Mode, Panel Brightness Medium
Gamma 2.4, Gamma settings: 10% -30, 80% +3
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post #14022 of 14104 Old 03-24-2019, 03:26 PM
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Do the newer "top of the line" displays (like QLED) need all these settings to deal with for best results?
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post #14023 of 14104 Old 03-24-2019, 03:53 PM
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Do the newer "top of the line" displays (like QLED) need all these settings to deal with for best results?
I've wondered this myself. I imagine any display needs a certain amount of calibration to look right given environment and content. But something tells menwhilenot could get easier, the dumbing down of the consumer may make it less likely we get the controls we need.

Sometimes, I see dead pixels...
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post #14024 of 14104 Old 03-25-2019, 06:03 PM
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Do the newer "top of the line" displays (like QLED) need all these settings to deal with for best results?
All displays need to be calibrated to maximize there potential.
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post #14025 of 14104 Old 03-26-2019, 09:06 AM
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Is it true that LED and QLED screens are not susceptible to burn-in like plasma? Our 2 main screens now are a 60" ST and an old 50" Panny plasma that looks better - mainly because it does have the very ugly bezel of the ST. The picture, itself, seems to be equal.
Never a burn-n w. either.
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post #14026 of 14104 Old 03-26-2019, 11:26 AM
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Is it true that LED and QLED screens are not susceptible to burn-in like plasma? Our 2 main screens now are a 60" ST and an old 50" Panny plasma that looks better - mainly because it does have the very ugly bezel of the ST. The picture, itself, seems to be equal.
Never a burn-n w. either.
QLED is just a marketing term used by Samsung, its still an LCD/LED. It is very rare for an LED tv to get burn-in.
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post #14027 of 14104 Old 03-26-2019, 03:24 PM
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QLED is just a marketing term used by Samsung, its still an LCD/LED. It is very rare for an LED tv to get burn-in.
thanks. I didn't realize that was just a marketing term.

I assume, now that it's years later, the new LEDs have a better picture than our old plasmas. What is considered the screen with the best picture now?
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post #14028 of 14104 Old 03-26-2019, 04:03 PM
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thanks. I didn't realize that was just a marketing term.

I assume, now that it's years later, the new LEDs have a better picture than our old plasmas. What is considered the screen with the best picture now?
You know what they say about assuming

With OLED's and LCD panels,it depends on the content you're viewing.Motion,viewing angles(LCD) etc.
If you're watching mainly 1080 content or less(cable,OTA or streaming)it's hard to beat a good Plasma.The ST 60 is a very good Plasma.My only gripe is the heat it puts out in the summer/early fall.

As far as best picture, that depends on where you have the TV(bright room) or if you mainly watch in a dark room.If dark room OLED is usually considered the best.Of course that is subjective.

Sorry.... I'm sure that's clear as mud!

That said I'm looking at a larger 75"-82" display.It might be awhile for me though.
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post #14029 of 14104 Old 03-26-2019, 04:43 PM
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thanks. I didn't realize that was just a marketing term.

I assume, now that it's years later, the new LEDs have a better picture than our old plasmas. What is considered the screen with the best picture now?



Plasma wins in realistic and super natural picture, motion and the unique combination of good black level and great shadow detail with no banding and blooming..


Plasma cant do 4k, cant do HDR, is smart tv naked, and cant compete in light output..


So it depends on your personal preferences.. Since you are used to a plasma tv picture, let us know how your experience with an lcd tv is.. (will be)

2013 Panasonic TX-P42X60E PDP
2013 Panasonic TX-P42STW60 PDP
ST60 Settings: Custom Mode, Contrast 60 = 100nits peak brightness aka Filmmaker Mode, Panel Brightness Medium
Gamma 2.4, Gamma settings: 10% -30, 80% +3
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post #14030 of 14104 Old 03-27-2019, 08:05 PM
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thanks. I didn't realize that was just a marketing term.

I assume, now that it's years later, the new LEDs have a better picture than our old plasmas. What is considered the screen with the best picture now?
It is arguably OLED. Regarding the LCDs you’re correct they’ve came a long way. A mid to high end LCD does outperform plasma to my eyes. The plasmas have a dull flat look (too dim/soft) on a good FALD LCD you should get better blacks and whiter whites. Of course, we all see things differently.

Money is no object set: Sony AF9 (OLED)
Nicely priced set with solid performance: Sony 900f or Sony 950g whichever is cheaper

As you can tell I like the Sonys for their natural colors, Motion handling, and upscalling.
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post #14031 of 14104 Old 03-29-2019, 02:31 PM
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It is arguably OLED. Regarding the LCDs you’re correct they’ve came a long way. A mid to high end LCD does outperform plasma to my eyes. The plasmas have a dull flat look (too dim/soft) on a good FALD LCD you should get better blacks and whiter whites. Of course, we all see things differently.

Money is no object set: Sony AF9 (OLED)
Nicely priced set with solid performance: Sony 900f or Sony 950g whichever is cheaper

As you can tell I like the Sonys for their natural colors, Motion handling, and upscalling.

lol


"dull flat look"


This is my 80 Euros Panasonic Plasma..


Even in brutal light room, where Plasmas suffer.. it shines..


Take some shots of your lcd and you will instantly see the diffrence just by looking at your first shots..
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2013 Panasonic TX-P42X60E PDP
2013 Panasonic TX-P42STW60 PDP
ST60 Settings: Custom Mode, Contrast 60 = 100nits peak brightness aka Filmmaker Mode, Panel Brightness Medium
Gamma 2.4, Gamma settings: 10% -30, 80% +3
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post #14032 of 14104 Old 03-29-2019, 03:25 PM
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lol


"dull flat look"


This is my 80 Euros Panasonic Plasma..


Even in brutal light room, where Plasmas suffer.. it shines..


Take some shots of your lcd and you will instantly see the diffrence just by looking at your first shots..


You haven't seen a decent LCD before have you. I can tell this by looking at the photos you posted. Which look a lot like the Panasonic S1, S2, ST30, I used to own and GT50 I still have in my possession. Out of curiosity what Program material/film is that?
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post #14033 of 14104 Old 03-29-2019, 04:56 PM
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You haven't seen a decent LCD before have you. I can tell this by looking at the photos you posted. Which look a lot like the Panasonic S1, S2, ST30, I used to own and GT50 I still have in my possession. Out of curiosity what Program material/film is that?

I repeat: Take some shots of your lcd and you will instantly see the difference just by looking at your first shots.. It is a challenge you can pick up or walk away..


Wonderwomen Sky Ticket (720p streaming service)


The other picture is from Le grand bleu.. ignore it..


But please dont even start with.. you dont know, you have not seen.. bla bla..


Post pictures to proof your point..

2013 Panasonic TX-P42X60E PDP
2013 Panasonic TX-P42STW60 PDP
ST60 Settings: Custom Mode, Contrast 60 = 100nits peak brightness aka Filmmaker Mode, Panel Brightness Medium
Gamma 2.4, Gamma settings: 10% -30, 80% +3
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post #14034 of 14104 Old 03-29-2019, 07:09 PM
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I repeat: Take some shots of your lcd and you will instantly see the difference just by looking at your first shots.. It is a challenge you can pick up or walk away..


Wonderwomen Sky Ticket (720p streaming service)


The other picture is from Le grand bleu.. ignore it..


But please dont even start with.. you dont know, you have not seen.. bla bla..


Post pictures to proof your point..

Start a new thread and give me some time stamps on the material you would like to do comparisons with... I will gladly take your offer. It won’t be very scientific but it might be fun nonetheless. Anyway, this is the ST60 thread and we need to do this elsewhere. My comments were meant to be in general and to help another member upgrade to a new tv.
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post #14035 of 14104 Old 03-29-2019, 07:24 PM
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Start a new thread and give me some time stamps on the material you would like to do comparisons with... I will gladly take your offer. It won’t be very scientific but it might be fun nonetheless. Anyway, this is the ST60 thread and we need to do this elsewhere. My comments were meant to be in general and to help another member upgrade to a new tv.
Yes, this is The ST60 thread, and you claimed that lcd beats plasma..

You can post pictures from any scene of that movie, you like.. yeah for sure its fun..

But i bet 100% you bail out.. or come with another excuse..

2013 Panasonic TX-P42X60E PDP
2013 Panasonic TX-P42STW60 PDP
ST60 Settings: Custom Mode, Contrast 60 = 100nits peak brightness aka Filmmaker Mode, Panel Brightness Medium
Gamma 2.4, Gamma settings: 10% -30, 80% +3
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post #14036 of 14104 Old 03-30-2019, 12:47 PM
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Here are some photos you requested. There are a mix of Wonder woman, Halloween, and Kuro demo shots. I don't have a DSLR on hand so my phone camera will have to do. If you want to discuss this further please create a thread for it.

There is one thing I do have to admit I instantly saw a difference
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Last edited by Majcric; 03-30-2019 at 02:12 PM.
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post #14037 of 14104 Old 03-30-2019, 05:28 PM
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Great!


I respect and appreciate your effort.. you even captured the same scenes..


Looks great..


But this is a somehow proving my point and a great example that IMO the same picture on Plasma looks more 3d, more lifelike, it has more Pop, many describe it at depth of field..
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2013 Panasonic TX-P42X60E PDP
2013 Panasonic TX-P42STW60 PDP
ST60 Settings: Custom Mode, Contrast 60 = 100nits peak brightness aka Filmmaker Mode, Panel Brightness Medium
Gamma 2.4, Gamma settings: 10% -30, 80% +3
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post #14038 of 14104 Old 03-30-2019, 05:30 PM
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LCDs have this flat digital look..


Interesting is also the fact that Plasmas are usually not as "sharp" as lcds.. but still you can see more details on the face of wonderwomen.. and that is with a compressed 720p Sky ticket streaming quality..
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2013 Panasonic TX-P42X60E PDP
2013 Panasonic TX-P42STW60 PDP
ST60 Settings: Custom Mode, Contrast 60 = 100nits peak brightness aka Filmmaker Mode, Panel Brightness Medium
Gamma 2.4, Gamma settings: 10% -30, 80% +3
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post #14039 of 14104 Old 03-30-2019, 05:33 PM
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What is the movie with the girl sitting on the couch with the knife in her hand, and the second shot outside the street..?



2013 Panasonic TX-P42X60E PDP
2013 Panasonic TX-P42STW60 PDP
ST60 Settings: Custom Mode, Contrast 60 = 100nits peak brightness aka Filmmaker Mode, Panel Brightness Medium
Gamma 2.4, Gamma settings: 10% -30, 80% +3
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post #14040 of 14104 Old 03-31-2019, 07:56 AM
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If you want to discuss this further let’s do it here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...s-plasmas.html

I will answer your question there. Ignore the thread title as I am not claiming LCD is better than plasma. That is subjective. I do however feel “To my eyes” LCD looks better with the lone exception being “maybe”a last gen Kuro/Panasonic plasma. Most folks don’t have these nor can they still be purchased new.


Fixed the photo. Without timestamps it makes it tougher to get the same scenes
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Last edited by Majcric; 03-31-2019 at 02:35 PM.
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