Originally Posted by Sasquatch321
This thread exist because of one person who thought he noticed lag. Lag is imperceptible by humans at 100ms or below, its as simple as that. Honestly I think you've made a mistake and should have kept your ST60, the Xbox 360 and PS3 are older machines now and the sluggishness in your games could simply be the performance of these consoles, not your tv.
You're really misinformed. Yes, I notice a lot of input lag, since I don't use TV just for gaming I also use a TV as a PC display. I play all kinds of games, classic games and such where I grew up on CRT displays with no lag and I definitely noticed a huge difference from the ST60 to those days. The ST60 stops you from reacting to the finer details in games. Is it playable? Yes, but you miss out on a lot of things simply because it feels a bit too slow. Feels. You aren't going to really see it (although the easiest method to see the lag is simply use a mouse on the display, you can clearly see it) but you'll certainly feel it when you are not used to playing on a laggy display.
You also keep mentioning how the 100 ms is the threshold it becomes noticeable. Well here's some info for you, and if you'd read the thread, you'd already see this was posted. 30 fps games have a native latency of 133 ms. That's IF there isn't any post graphical processes going on that will slow it down further (KZ2 is a good example) than native latency. A TV with 73 ms of input lag now puts that threshold over 200 ms of lag from the time you press a button to the time you see something on the display. When games this generation barely maintain 30 fps and struggle to even get mid twenties, then the lag shoots up higher.
So, as you can clearly see, a TV with high input lag is simply bad for gaming. It already crosses the threshold of noticeable delay with humans (your own info backs this up) since 90% of games developed today choose a target 30 fps.
It's even worse online. If you join a lobby in BF3 with 100 ms ping, that's already 8 frames of lag, on top of the display lag of 73 ms (5 frames) on top of the native latency of 133 ms. That's 300+ ms of input lag, and the worst part is it's variable and prone to lag spikes with wireless players and so on.
I've also done plenty of tests, objectively, on the display's lag. All features turned off, I had even gone as far as to disconnect the wireless dongle and delete every app possible and the input lag was still the same. The display is a bare minimum 5 frames of input lag. It has 3 frames of lag on top of the ST30, and while it may not look that bad on a video, it will feel slower. Comparing the display to another laggy display isn't always a good objective test, but if you're already used to a laggy display then it just goes to show the lag you'll get on top.
Originally Posted by Bruce2019
For example this guy for sure did not, and returnd the tv and tells everybody how bad the lag is.
I did the same test, and no way it lags like this:
Actually, that test is accurate to the lag of the display compared to a lagless display. That's exactly what I would see with my own eyes, not even need a camera, on how it was compared to my CRT. Sure, no one expects a plasma to match a CRT, but at the same time, no one should expect it to be that much worse. Compare the same guy's video of the S60 (no game mode, so testing conditions are identical) to his low lag LCD. It's night and day.
Again, lag isn't always visibly noticeable on gaming content or other forms of video, but once you start using it for other purposes such as a PC display, then you can definitely see where it's lagging behind.
Edit: BTW, a better tool to use for testing is shurcools' refresh rate tool https://github.com/shurcooL/RefreshRateMultitool
since you get frames and not numbers. It's a lot more accurate and has less variables for testing and the results are more consistent, too.
Anyway, I don't think I should stick around this thread. I've since moved on from the ST60 and people are asking redundant questions that have already been answered pages back, and argue over stuff when the data is already there. How does x game feel? And so on. I can't recall how many times I've answered 60 fps vs 30 fps gaming and how they'll feel. Info's already there, so I don't see why I should repeat myself further. Same with sasquatch's miscalculation of the threshold of input lag, since I've covered that topic in this thread numerous times, too, he could have easily checked back but I think he'd rather pretend it isn't a problem.
Enjoy your ST60's, guys.