Official ST60 input lag thread - Page 26 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #751 of 1321 Old 06-04-2013, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by sawfish View Post

Has anyone tried deleting all the apps it is possible to delete and unplugging the network cable or disassociating from the wireless network to see if it helps?
I disabled the network. I use the internal wireless, so I just selected ethernet & let it time out. It seemed to help, how much, I'm not sure.
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post #752 of 1321 Old 06-04-2013, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Bruce2019 View Post

On the other Hand: The Game Mode on the ST30 does not look near way so good than the True Cinema Mode on the ST60. The Game Mode on the ST30 is like some Kind of dynamic Picture mode. On the ST60 I can use my calibrated and 10 Point Gamma adjusted mode for gaming, which will be usefull if those new PS4 Full HD Consoles will be around the Corner.

That issue is moot to some degree on the ST30 because Game mode isn't required in order to reduce lag on the 30 series. That all changed with the 50 series last year.
Of course the ST60 is still going to be superior in accuracy thanks to the ST30's complete lack of any useful calibration controls as well as its other superior attributes.
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post #753 of 1321 Old 06-04-2013, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by cadett View Post

I disabled the network. I use the internal wireless, so I just selected ethernet & let it time out. It seemed to help, how much, I'm not sure.

We need to all pony up for a programmer to design a Viera app that nukes all resident apps. Should I start a Kickstarter campaign? :-)
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post #754 of 1321 Old 06-04-2013, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by cadett View Post

I disabled the network. I use the internal wireless, so I just selected ethernet & let it time out. It seemed to help, how much, I'm not sure.

I tried that, made Videos with wireless conected and wireless off (LAN, but no cable) and checkd the Videos.. Unfortunatly the exact same lag.

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post #755 of 1321 Old 06-04-2013, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Bruce2019 View Post

I tried that, made Videos with wireless conected and wireless of (LAN, but no cable) and checkd the Videos.. Unfortunatly the exact same lag.
Okay, placebo...
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post #756 of 1321 Old 06-05-2013, 04:15 AM
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Im not asking this question to spite what you've been saying just outta curiosity. I don't really play online games unless its like coop like Diablo or left for dead. Not really a online competitive guy and at this point in my life I will unlikely ever be. You say its fine for fps single player but maybe not for fps online multiplayer. Games like cod are both so wouldnt low input lag be important in single and multi player? Sure in multiplayer its very competitive. But in single player you are still being challenged. Also games like god of war require more precise button presses it seems to me so I feel like maybe the input lag would negatively effect that? I do mostly pc gaming now that I can hook it up to my tv and games are cheaper and I can use a controller if I really want. So pc gaming is my main concern

You have asked the same questions many, many times.... and it has been answered many, many times....
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post #757 of 1321 Old 06-05-2013, 07:15 AM
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Your countrymen are proud to read that I'm sure. biggrin.gif

Absolutely biggrin.gif

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smile.gif So, ummm, what price are canadians going for these days? tongue.gif j/k

2,500 for a 65 afaik

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post #758 of 1321 Old 06-05-2013, 09:44 AM
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2,500 for a 65 afaik

1499 for the 55" i picked up. BB has it for 1699.00

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post #759 of 1321 Old 06-05-2013, 10:05 AM
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50" is selling at Future Shop and Best Buy for $1,199.
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post #760 of 1321 Old 06-05-2013, 10:33 AM
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Wrong thread, sorry!
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post #761 of 1321 Old 06-05-2013, 10:45 AM
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If you can't see it - I wouldn't worry about it.

Some people noted a banding on the right side that is about 4-5" in width but it is not noticeable in normal viewing. I had it on mine when I was running slides...

You have a year warranty on it so if it gets worse over the next month then maybe get it looked at.

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post #762 of 1321 Old 06-05-2013, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Hearzy View Post

If you can't see it - I wouldn't worry about it.

Some people noted a banding on the right side that is about 4-5" in width but it is not noticeable in normal viewing. I had it on mine when I was running slides...

You have a year warranty on it so if it gets worse over the next month then maybe get it looked at.

Thanks for the input, I'll guess I will wait it out then. And in Europe we have 2 years warranty so I have some time.
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post #763 of 1321 Old 06-05-2013, 11:31 AM
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Without slogging through 26 pages of this thread, can anyone give me a "yes" or "no" if they would recommend the ST60 to be used for video games (FPS especially where response time is crucial)? I'm trying to decide between the ST60 and Samsung F7100 LED and right now the video game performance is the deciding factor.

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post #764 of 1321 Old 06-05-2013, 11:39 AM
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I'd say for you to go through the twenty-some pages and figure it out.

It is talked about on at least 70% of them.
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post #765 of 1321 Old 06-05-2013, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by maytime View Post

Without slogging through 26 pages of this thread, can anyone give me a "yes" or "no" if they would recommend the ST60 to be used for video games (FPS especially where response time is crucial)? I'm trying to decide between the ST60 and Samsung F7100 LED and right now the video game performance is the deciding factor.

If video game performance is the deciding factor and it is established that the F7100 has a lower input lag response time, then your answer is clear.
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post #766 of 1321 Old 06-05-2013, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by maytime View Post

Without slogging through 26 pages of this thread, can anyone give me a "yes" or "no" if they would recommend the ST60 to be used for video games (FPS especially where response time is crucial)? I'm trying to decide between the ST60 and Samsung F7100 LED and right now the video game performance is the deciding factor.
The f7100 is a recommended 2013 gaming TV on display lag.com. I believe its like 39ms which is much better than the st60.
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post #767 of 1321 Old 06-05-2013, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Hearzy View Post

1499 for the 55" i picked up. BB has it for 1699.00

Sears has it for $1359
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post #768 of 1321 Old 06-05-2013, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maytime View Post

Without slogging through 26 pages of this thread, can anyone give me a "yes" or "no" if they would recommend the ST60 to be used for video games (FPS especially where response time is crucial)? I'm trying to decide between the ST60 and Samsung F7100 LED and right now the video game performance is the deciding factor.

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57587317-221/game-mode-on-cnet-tests-tvs-for-input-lag/
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post #769 of 1321 Old 06-05-2013, 12:26 PM
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Thanks for the link, good read. Sounds like I might want to consider the S60 since it doesn't have the smart apps and extra processing routines that affect display lag. I'm still riding out my 6 year old Soxy SXRD till it dies or till the green/yellow hue gets worse enough for me to upgrade. Any word on if Panasonic has a firmware fix for the ST60 display lag in the works?

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post #770 of 1321 Old 06-05-2013, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hearzy View Post

You have asked the same questions many, many times.... and it has been answered many, many times....

Maybe but I havent received a quality response for a couple of the questions. It doesn't make any sense that the tv is fine for playing single player cod but not multiplayer when they are the same thing. You can die in single player just like you can in multiplayer so I don't get why it matters for one but not the other. I don't care about multiplayer but I don't wanna be dying in single player cause of input lag more than I would with a low lag tv. Also no one has done really any testing of the tv compared to another with an actual quality gaming pc with fps games or a game like Diablo 3. Seeing the input lag when dragging the mouse across the screen doesn't matter all I care about is how it is in game. The whole console thing has already been addressed and all I care about is pc. Moonchilde is the only one who's given me any good response. There was one guy who used his laptop but I'm running a gaming pc not a laptop and I know for fact being in the pc industry that laptops are just slower than a higher end gaming pc
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post #771 of 1321 Old 06-05-2013, 01:57 PM
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"It doesn't make any sense that the tv is fine for playing single player cod but not multiplayer when they are the same thing."

Because it's cumulative lag. small amounts of lag can still feel normal and playable in single player. But when you add in all the extra delays of online, those extra ms make it feel far worse.

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post #772 of 1321 Old 06-05-2013, 03:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Omni009 View Post

"It doesn't make any sense that the tv is fine for playing single player cod but not multiplayer when they are the same thing."

Because it's cumulative lag. small amounts of lag can still feel normal and playable in single player. But when you add in all the extra delays of online, those extra ms make it feel far worse.

This. ^ Offline PC CoD will be at least 60 fps, which will have an input lag of 66 ms native, plus 73 ms from the TV for a total of 139 ms of input lag. So it's like playing a 30 fps game on a console, that's what it's like. Online would add another variable on top, so say you have a ping of 100 with a few players in the room that will be 233 ms of input lag, so it will definitely be noticeable there. That would be equivalent of playing an offline game at 15 fps, so if you remember some of those old PSOne days, yeah.

Hope that helps.
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post #773 of 1321 Old 06-05-2013, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by JDely31 View Post

The f7100 is a recommended 2013 gaming TV on display lag.com. I believe its like 39ms which is much better than the st60.

The w802a has 16ms, so if that is your deciding there you go.
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post #774 of 1321 Old 06-05-2013, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omni009 View Post

"It doesn't make any sense that the tv is fine for playing single player cod but not multiplayer when they are the same thing."

Because it's cumulative lag. small amounts of lag can still feel normal and playable in single player. But when you add in all the extra delays of online, those extra ms make it feel far worse.

Just to be clear here, it depends on how you guys are defining this. There aren't many (if any) contemporary titles that roll network based lag into the local client and have it reflected it in the responsiveness of controls. If it takes 166ms from button press to muzzle flash, it's going to be 166ms in both SP and MP--regardless of your ping. So at the client level, 95% of games are going to "control" and "feel" 100% identical across SP and MP. Now if you're talking about losing more melee/drawing contests or misjudging more leading shots, yea the extra 40 or 50ms of display lag coupled with network lag will begin to cross reaction thresholds. Theoretically there are prediction mechanisms in place to moot network lag, but it's not quite so perfect in practice. You will of course run into the same problems against AI opponents in SP (display lag + rendering/polling lag), just without the potential for spotty prediction obviously.
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post #775 of 1321 Old 06-05-2013, 09:32 PM
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Why is the W802a better than the F7100, that's a good question and I'll tell you why. The W802a is better right off the bat with 50 percent less input lag then the F7100. The W802a incorporates Simulview allowing two players to play full screen PS4 games at once. The W802a incorporates a IPS panel vs the 7100's VA panel. IPS is better for gaming and content because of wider viewing angles and better color reproduction, it also has no overdrive trailing as seen on the VA panels. The F7100 has active 3D vs the W802a's passive, passive is better because it's a brighter picture without crosstalk. To top it off, the F7100 offers not much against the X-Reality pro engine.

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post #776 of 1321 Old 06-05-2013, 09:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omni009 View Post

"It doesn't make any sense that the tv is fine for playing single player cod but not multiplayer when they are the same thing."

Because it's cumulative lag. small amounts of lag can still feel normal and playable in single player. But when you add in all the extra delays of online, those extra ms make it feel far worse.

Yeah I understand that aspect. I guess around the seattle area internet is quite good. Ive had some slow internet connections before. But from my experience in the past with online gaming it always seemed like it was too laggy to play or just fine. 100ms ping is way high though. I probably wouldn't even bother playing with a ping like that haha. Thankfully i am on fiber optic now.

Thank you though
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post #777 of 1321 Old 06-06-2013, 04:51 AM
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any thoughts on the S60 instead of the St60 to fix that input lag? Is the PQ that much better on the ST60?
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post #778 of 1321 Old 06-06-2013, 04:53 AM
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Originally Posted by CYrus BORG View Post

Looking at last year's 60ST50 for $1250 new in the box.
Just curious why not just get this years S60 Model?
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post #779 of 1321 Old 06-06-2013, 05:44 AM
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Hi !

I'm french , it's been 6 years since i have my first tv : 40X3500 & i think to change it maybe by a plasma ( cheaper for bigger size , more natural ... ) but i won't only use my tv to watch blu-ray.
I play video games & i've heard that even with a plasma there are input lag problems , especially on the ST60. Is it really annoying ? someone used to have a X3500 and can compare theses two screens ?

Buying a VT60 is a better solution ?

Need some advice smile.gif
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post #780 of 1321 Old 06-06-2013, 06:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thomson33 View Post

any thoughts on the S60 instead of the St60 to fix that input lag? Is the PQ that much better on the ST60?
Lag on the S60 is about a third of the ST60. The S doesn't contain the ar filter & doesn't has as many pic controls. If it's going in a room where light can be controlled & gaming is your main need, then go for it.
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