Samsung PNxxF4500 Owners Thread - Page 48 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1411 of 1677 Old 03-03-2015, 04:43 AM
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Im surprised a Retro Trio unit exhibits the exact same issue as the NES original hardware. I thought it just emulated NES with ARM/Android or something. I guess it must share some similarities with the original hardware in some way.

Dont they make Retron style units with HDMI out?
Yes, there is a Retron 5 that outputs to HDMI, but due to the way the company handled its launch and other events, I've decided not to get one of those. So far, the SRT is a very nice device that does everything I need it to do, while saving space from having those three consoles on my shelf at the same time.

Would an upscaling device like a Framemeister (or a less expensive alternative) be a possible solution to the display issues? As much as I'd like to permanently mod my consoles, I'd have to practice first so I don't ruin them.
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post #1412 of 1677 Old 03-03-2015, 05:04 AM
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Originally Posted by polyphenus View Post
Yes, there is a Retron 5 that outputs to HDMI, but due to the way the company handled its launch and other events, I've decided not to get one of those. So far, the SRT is a very nice device that does everything I need it to do, while saving space from having those three consoles on my shelf at the same time.

Would an upscaling device like a Framemeister (or a less expensive alternative) be a possible solution to the display issues? As much as I'd like to permanently mod my consoles, I'd have to practice first so I don't ruin them.
It will help quite a bit if you feed S-Video to it, (assuming your TV doesnt have an SVideo input). If you feed it composite, dont expect miracles, you definitely wont get an improvement worth the cost of the unit.

If you have a Sega Genesis, do that one first as all you need is to buy a cable and a RGB> Component transcoder box-- you dont even need to open the console (assuming you have the original style console).

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post #1413 of 1677 Old 03-03-2015, 05:20 AM
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It will help quite a bit if you feed S-Video to it, (assuming your TV doesnt have an SVideo input). If you feed it composite, dont expect miracles, you definitely wont get an improvement worth the cost of the unit.

If you have a Sega Genesis, do that one first as all you need is to buy a cable and a RGB> Component transcoder box-- you dont even need to open the console (assuming you have the original style console).
Great advice! The SRT outputs to S-video but the Samsung doesn't have that input.

I'll definitely look into starting with the Genesis.
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post #1414 of 1677 Old 03-03-2015, 08:00 AM
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Great advice! The SRT outputs to S-video but the Samsung doesn't have that input.

I'll definitely look into starting with the Genesis.
Im sorry, I dont think I explained myself clearly above. If you decide to RGB mod the real consoles, yes, the Genesis is by far the easiest (just plugging a cable), followed by the SNES mini, N64, and finally the NES.

If your Trio outputs S-Video, without a doubt taking advantage of that would be your easiest solution-- it wont quite match RGBs, but I think you'll be satisfied with the result. The kicker is what upscaler to use. You could get one that transcodes to component, or to HDMI. Without a doubt the Framemeister would be the best, but at $400, its expensive. I have a GefenTV S-Video/composite to HDMI, and it works good, but I only use it for my satellite box because it adds noticable lag for games, and its a $150 box. I dont know how well the cheaper Ebay ones will perform regarding lag and image quality.

I would imagine that keeping the signal analog (transcoding to component) would be the lowest lag solution.

I like Audio Authority stuff, but I dont know if they make SVideo to HDMI or component converters.

Do me a favor and let me know which route you go and how it works out.
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post #1415 of 1677 Old 03-03-2015, 08:03 AM
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After taking a closer look, I can notice the static and slight scrolling/lines constantly in darker scenes/darker portions of the screen. But only when very close to the screen. Surely this isn't normal??
Shoukd I return it?
You could... But remember that these are closeout sets and there may not be many left to replace it with. If you still have a reasonable amount of time before you have to return it, I would suggest running one of the burn-in videos. I've been running one on continuous loop since the set was delivered on Saturday. The PQ is stabilizing and getting better (granted that is an individual perception) the longer I run it.

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post #1416 of 1677 Old 03-04-2015, 01:04 AM
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So this static that's noticeable up close in dark colors is normal? What about the faint lines that scroll upwards? It causes the blacks to look washed out an light. The image isn't crisp and I think it may be because of the faint static in the colors

What should I do? Where do I get a burn in DVD? I had read a cnet article that said burning in a plasma wasn't necessary so I wasn't worried about it.

Ugh
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post #1417 of 1677 Old 03-04-2015, 01:50 AM
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Originally Posted by reflexion View Post
So this static that's noticeable up close in dark colors is normal? What about the faint lines that scroll upwards? It causes the blacks to look washed out an light. The image isn't crisp and I think it may be because of the faint static in the colors

What should I do? Where do I get a burn in DVD? I had read a cnet article that said burning in a plasma wasn't necessary so I wasn't worried about it.

Ugh
It could be... Take your pick from any of these https://www.google.com/search?q=plasma+picture+patterns+break+in&oq=plasm a+&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j69i60l3j69i57j0.5027j0j7&sou rceid=chrome&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8#q=plasma+tv+break+in+slides&tbm=vid&start=0

Download as a mp4 file and run it on loop. It may be a placebo effectg, but I really do see the PQ improving.

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post #1418 of 1677 Old 03-04-2015, 04:55 AM
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Originally Posted by reflexion View Post
So this static that's noticeable up close in dark colors is normal? What about the faint lines that scroll upwards? It causes the blacks to look washed out an light. The image isn't crisp and I think it may be because of the faint static in the colors

What should I do? Where do I get a burn in DVD? I had read a cnet article that said burning in a plasma wasn't necessary so I wasn't worried about it.

Ugh
I recommend spending a little time reading through this thread. Dithering has been discussed, if thats what you are seeing. Make sure your HDMI black level is set correctly for the source you are using. There is no need to download break-in videos. I have 3 different plasmas and I never used such videos. Just set cell light between 12 and 14 and watch some TV / movies on it. Stay away from letterboxed content until you get a couple hundered hours of use.

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post #1419 of 1677 Old 03-04-2015, 08:52 AM
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That probably is true about the break-in videos, but they do help rack up the initial 100+ hours quickly and due to their nature, there will not be any black bars or static logos... Besides, they really can't hurt.

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post #1420 of 1677 Old 03-06-2015, 09:00 AM
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In 22point8's post # 1284 do we unzip file, put it on a usb stick & do an update through "software update"? Thanks.
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post #1421 of 1677 Old 03-06-2015, 10:00 AM
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In 22point8's post # 1284 do we unzip file, put it on a usb stick & do an update through "software update"? Thanks.
Oh, no thats just the HCFR measurement files incase anyone else wanted to view them.
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post #1422 of 1677 Old 03-06-2015, 06:59 PM
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Hey 22point, have you gotten those settings for PN43F4500 component for me yet? I set my tv up for real finally using my component cables, and would like to know what settings will get it looking nicely. I was told to look for what you came up with, but... It's been a while, nothing yet in this thread.
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post #1423 of 1677 Old 03-06-2015, 10:53 PM
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Used it for a few hours now. Is it normal for there to be... Static? Maybe not the right word. There's a bunch of primary colored (red and blue and green) colored dots that rapidly blink and move all over the screen, more visible when something on the screen is moving too. They're quite visible up close. Nothing effects them, no settings. I assume it's normal, but I didn't expect it. Has nothing to do with connections either, the main Samsung screen when nothing is connected shows it too.

So is it normal? Could this be the "dreaded" plasma flicker I read about?
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post #1424 of 1677 Old 03-07-2015, 01:43 AM
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Originally Posted by andy6915 View Post
Used it for a few hours now. Is it normal for there to be... Static? Maybe not the right word. There's a bunch of primary colored (red and blue and green) colored dots that rapidly blink and move all over the screen, more visible when something on the screen is moving too. They're quite visible up close. Nothing effects them, no settings. I assume it's normal, but I didn't expect it. Has nothing to do with connections either, the main Samsung screen when nothing is connected shows it too.

So is it normal? Could this be the "dreaded" plasma flicker I read about?
How close to the screen do you have to be to see them and under what background on the screen?
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post #1425 of 1677 Old 03-07-2015, 02:54 AM
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How close to the screen do you have to be to see them and under what background on the screen?
I did research since my last post, it's apparently totally normal. I sit within 3 feet, which is definitely close enough to see the pixels doing their thing. And by background I mean the opening Samsung image that is a blue screen with the Samsung logo in the middle. And no, sitting much further back isn't an option. I just need to get used to it.

On the positive side, the effect is supposed to lessen as it gets older. I should start seeing less of it once the 200-hour break in period is over, and even less from there given time.
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post #1426 of 1677 Old 03-07-2015, 06:25 AM
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And by background I mean the opening Samsung image that is a blue screen with the Samsung logo in the middle. And no, sitting much further back isn't an option. I just need to get used to it.

On the positive side, the effect is supposed to lessen as it gets older. I should start seeing less of it once the 200-hour break in period is over, and even less from there given time.
Yes, it is normal for all plasmas, its how they create subtle shades of colors/blacks. Its also noticeable in motion. Its called dithering, its completely normal.

Your set will always do it, but as the panel ages a bit you wont see it on true blacks (like the Samsung splash screen black) and in motion you will get used to it, to the point you wont even notice it. Im sitting approx 5' from my 51" typing this, and I cannot see any dithering at all--not even from my moving mouse pointer.

22point8 did say he would try to produce some component settings, but he may be busy, just give him some time. In the meanwhile, you can use Standard pic mode, brightness 43, contrast 93, cell light 12 (in a very dark room you can go lower), color 50, sharp 50, tint 50/50. Turn off Eco Sensor.

Colorspace Native (for more garish colors) or Auto (more natural colors), Color Temp Standard, turn off Dynamic contrast, digital clean view and MPEG noise filter and Black Tone. Leave Black Optimizer on Auto.

Your set should look awesome with games over component with just these few tweaks.

Displays: Samsung PN51F5300BFXA, PN51F4500AFXA, PN51F4500BFXA

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post #1427 of 1677 Old 03-07-2015, 02:40 PM
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Yes, it is normal for all plasmas, its how they create subtle shades of colors/blacks. Its also noticeable in motion. Its called dithering, its completely normal.

Your set will always do it, but as the panel ages a bit you wont see it on true blacks (like the Samsung splash screen black) and in motion you will get used to it, to the point you wont even notice it. Im sitting approx 5' from my 51" typing this, and I cannot see any dithering at all--not even from my moving mouse pointer.

22point8 did say he would try to produce some component settings, but he may be busy, just give him some time. In the meanwhile, you can use Standard pic mode, brightness 43, contrast 93, cell light 12 (in a very dark room you can go lower), color 50, sharp 50, tint 50/50. Turn off Eco Sensor.

Colorspace Native (for more garish colors) or Auto (more natural colors), Color Temp Standard, turn off Dynamic contrast, digital clean view and MPEG noise filter and Black Tone. Leave Black Optimizer on Auto.

Your set should look awesome with games over component with just these few tweaks.
I made the settings decent.

cell light 16 (even though I'm in a dark room, it was the best looking setting that didn't have diminishing returns)
contrast 91
bright 50
sharp 50
color 70
tint 50/50

black level set to darkest

standard "temp"

"native" color (or whatever)


All that seemed to get it looking pretty close to how I remember things looking on my CRT that I spent a dozen hours getting right when I got it, and got games looking their most natural.

Are Plasma's supposed to be brighter than CRT's? It seems like either every game I play is brighter than it was on my CRT. But there's no fixing it, turning brightness and contrast lower just makes everything too dark instead. I'm starting to think that high definition signals are just brighter in general since high definition has such a stronger signal than standard definition. Am I right? Because getting my favorite games to have the lighting they used to have is being impossible, and I'm starting to think this "problem" is only a problem because I'm used to how much worse things looked in standard and unadjusted to hd's more true lighting. Like there's this one game with a dark secret place, that place was extremely hard to see in on my CRT (practically have to feel my way in) and yet it's way more lit up and easy to see in on my new tv.
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post #1428 of 1677 Old 03-07-2015, 06:57 PM
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I made the settings decent.

cell light 16 (even though I'm in a dark room, it was the best looking setting that didn't have diminishing returns)
contrast 91
bright 50
sharp 50
color 70
tint 50/50

black level set to darkest

standard "temp"

"native" color (or whatever)


All that seemed to get it looking pretty close to how I remember things looking on my CRT that I spent a dozen hours getting right when I got it, and got games looking their most natural.

Are Plasma's supposed to be brighter than CRT's? It seems like either every game I play is brighter than it was on my CRT. But there's no fixing it, turning brightness and contrast lower just makes everything too dark instead. I'm starting to think that high definition signals are just brighter in general since high definition has such a stronger signal than standard definition. Am I right? Because getting my favorite games to have the lighting they used to have is being impossible, and I'm starting to think this "problem" is only a problem because I'm used to how much worse things looked in standard and unadjusted to hd's more true lighting. Like there's this one game with a dark secret place, that place was extremely hard to see in on my CRT (practically have to feel my way in) and yet it's way more lit up and easy to see in on my new tv.
Exactly what systems and games are you using?

Its great that you found some settings you like, but I just want you to know, theres no way you are getting an "accurate" representation of what the games were designed to look like with the settings you posted above. Two reasons--first, the color setting of 70 causes extreme oversaturation of colors-- this leads to loss of color detail, because even in 8 and 16 bit retrogames, it will not be able to display all the color gradations and shading that the games were programmed with. A prime example of this is the Super Mario World "shrub" test. The shrubs in the first picture below are missing a shade of green due to oversaturation. The second pic is what it should look like.

http://i.imgur.com/k59gLqU.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/TCOuSpk.jpg

You need to be no higher than 50 or you will start to clip colors on the component input.

Second possible issue, you are using a brightness of 50, but a Black Tone of Darkest. If you set it to "OFF" and lower your brightness to about 44 or 45, you should get proper blacks with no clipping. You may be OK setting your Black Tone to "Dark" with these settings, but may begin to clip blacks.

You did remember to turn off "Eco Sensor/Mode", right?

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post #1429 of 1677 Old 03-07-2015, 08:18 PM
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Exactly what systems and games are you using?

Its great that you found some settings you like, but I just want you to know, theres no way you are getting an "accurate" representation of what the games were designed to look like with the settings you posted above. Two reasons--first, the color setting of 70 causes extreme oversaturation of colors-- this leads to loss of color detail, because even in 8 and 16 bit retrogames, it will not be able to display all the color gradations and shading that the games were programmed with. A prime example of this is the Super Mario World "shrub" test. The shrubs in the first picture below are missing a shade of green due to oversaturation. The second pic is what it should look like.

http://i.imgur.com/k59gLqU.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/TCOuSpk.jpg

You need to be no higher than 50 or you will start to clip colors on the component input.

Second possible issue, you are using a brightness of 50, but a Black Tone of Darkest. If you set it to "OFF" and lower your brightness to about 44 or 45, you should get proper blacks with no clipping. You may be OK setting your Black Tone to "Dark" with these settings, but may begin to clip blacks.

You did remember to turn off "Eco Sensor/Mode", right?
You're wrong about the color, that setting got the plasma to my CRT's setting, 50 and 60 were far too colorless. No oversaturation at all, I can't stand that and wouldn't leave it at that setting if I got even a hint of it.

Black tone at darkest because that just makes the darkness more accurate, and you're actually wrong about this too. I just checked, all turning it off does is make a "light fog" or something appear, like when you turn the brightness up to some ridiculously high level like 90. Turning the brightness down doesn't get rid of it, the fog remains at even 40 brightness. Fact is that darker you set it the more accurate you set it. If my CRT didn't have that light fog with how good it looked, than the settings to get it looking closer to it are the settings to use. And no, I've seen no clipping of darkness even while playing a game with EXTREMELY dark parts. Partly why I picked it, it's an excellent game to use for setting lighting. It also has an intentional film grain, meaning I don't see the dithering right now either.
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post #1430 of 1677 Old 03-07-2015, 08:32 PM
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Okay, I will try out 60 color. I used the box art where orange is all over the cover, and is also the color of the menus in the game. 60 is the one that makes the orange on screen the exact same shade as on the box art, so it might actually be more accurate than 70. I'll try it for a while and see. 50 is absolutely too low though, everything lacks too much color on that setting.

But the dark level thing is definitely wrong no matter how much I check, turning it to off or dark just makes dark areas fogged like there's smoke everywhere. Between darkest and dark, darkest is definitely the one that matches my own eye's view of real life when it comes to darkness.
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post #1431 of 1677 Old 03-07-2015, 11:09 PM
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And I was wrong about the brightness after all. Set to "darker" instead of darkest combined with 42 brightness does actually get an overall better result than darkest and 50 brightness.
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post #1432 of 1677 Old 03-08-2015, 07:37 AM
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You're wrong about the color, that setting got the plasma to my CRT's setting, 50 and 60 were far too colorless. No oversaturation at all, I can't stand that and wouldn't leave it at that setting if I got even a hint of it.

Black tone at darkest because that just makes the darkness more accurate, and you're actually wrong about this too. I just checked, all turning it off does is make a "light fog" or something appear, like when you turn the brightness up to some ridiculously high level like 90. Turning the brightness down doesn't get rid of it, the fog remains at even 40 brightness. Fact is that darker you set it the more accurate you set it. If my CRT didn't have that light fog with how good it looked, than the settings to get it looking closer to it are the settings to use. And no, I've seen no clipping of darkness even while playing a game with EXTREMELY dark parts. Partly why I picked it, it's an excellent game to use for setting lighting. It also has an intentional film grain, meaning I don't see the dithering right now either.
You never said what system, game, and connection type (HDMI/Component/Composite) you are using. It sounds like you are using HDMI and have an RGB level mismatch. That is the only thing that would explain the washed out colors and "dark fog" you are seeing. If you are using component inputs, something is wrong with your set. If you are using HDMI inputs, set your console to Full RGB and your TV to HDMI Black Level= Normal.

As far as component video inputs go, Im not wrong.
Do you think the pictures I posted showing the clipping of the greens gradation in the shrub in Super Mario World are fake, like I photoshopped them or something? I tried it last night, using native colorspace with a color setting of 70, the set will clip greens and other colors exactly like the pictures I posted. Pictures dont lie-- if you are using the component input, your set is doing the same thing at those levels as every other F4500 on the planet. I myself, and also many others on this thread have have confirmed the color clipping with optimization and /or calibration discs and instruments. We are not wrong. There is not nearly enough variation or "drift" in settings from set to set that could explain why your set would be accurate at this level while everybody elses is not.

You almost certainly have an RGB level mismatch, or are using composite video or something. Check it.

Displays: Samsung PN51F5300BFXA, PN51F4500AFXA, PN51F4500BFXA


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post #1433 of 1677 Old 03-08-2015, 09:14 AM
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You never said what system, game, and connection type (HDMI/Component/Composite) you are using. It sounds like you are using HDMI and have an RGB level mismatch. That is the only thing that would explain the washed out colors and "dark fog" you are seeing. If you are using component inputs, something is wrong with your set. If you are using HDMI inputs, set your console to Full RGB and your TV to HDMI Black Level= Normal.

As far as component video inputs go, Im not wrong.
Do you think the pictures I posted showing the clipping of the greens gradation in the shrub in Super Mario World are fake, like I photoshopped them or something? I tried it last night, using native colorspace with a color setting of 70, the set will clip greens and other colors exactly like the pictures I posted. Pictures dont lie-- if you are using the component input, your set is doing the same thing at those levels as every other F4500 on the planet. I myself, and also many others on this thread have have confirmed the color clipping with optimization and /or calibration discs and instruments. We are not wrong. There is not nearly enough variation or "drift" in settings from set to set that could explain why your set would be accurate at this level while everybody elses is not.

You almost certainly have an RGB level mismatch, or are using composite video or something. Check it.
Well you have obviously skipped many of my posts. I've said I use component, more than than once at that.

I don't care that you think 60 is too high, 50 just flat-out looks bad and lacking color to me. No amount of posting will change my mind on that, I won't use a setting that looks worse to me. And honestly, I doubt 60 would fail that color test.

And the brightness issue isn't dark fog, it was light fog. As in it just made everything have a greyed haze on it, blacks were closer to grey than black. But I also told you that you was right and I just needed to turn my brightness down lower than expected (45 didn't get rid of the fog but 42 is what I needed to set it to do it). Did you even read my last few posts where I came back and said you was right? Though you are wrong about anything darker than "dark" being bad, "darker" looks better than "dark" and doesn't cause the black detail to get ugly like "darkest" did. And nothing is wrong with my set, it works utterly perfectly.
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post #1434 of 1677 Old 03-08-2015, 09:29 AM
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So I've read plasmas lose their lighting intensity with age, up to 50% ultimately. So does that mean I'll need to gradually increase a setting to keep up with it? Which setting, cell light or brightness (I hope not contrast because that's already up to 90 so I can't really do much increasing to it)?
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post #1435 of 1677 Old 03-08-2015, 02:21 PM
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Component settings

I wanted to see what the i1 display pro .ccss corrections were like vs profiling against an i1 Pro.

The default plasma file was almost perfect vs the i1 Pro.

I made a my own .ccss file and figured out how to make it appear as an option in HCFR (put it in C:\Users\your_username\AppData\Roaming\color) and after some slight adjustments I was back to my old readings except...

It seems that although profiling the i1d3 to the i1pro improves the xy accuracy, it also has the limitation of not reading light output (Y) as accurately.

For example
i1d3 profiled to i1 Pro = 140nit (60hz) 130nit (96hz)
.ccss made from the same i1 Pro= 160nit (60hz) 150nit (96hz)

So now I can see why people thought it was a bit too bright, it really was! The plasma cells are larger than normal because they the panel is only 1024x768, and the reason the F8500 was able to put out so much light was its bigger cells.

If you want to reduce light output to 120cdm2 reduce contrast to 82, reducing cell light to 14 or 15 achieves the same but messed up the greyscale.

Anyway, here are the component settings, I was able to get the saturation pretty good now that HCFR lets you measure individually.



Last edited by 22point8; 03-08-2015 at 02:29 PM.
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post #1436 of 1677 Old 03-08-2015, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy6915 View Post
So I've read plasmas lose their lighting intensity with age, up to 50% ultimately. So does that mean I'll need to gradually increase a setting to keep up with it? Which setting, cell light or brightness (I hope not contrast because that's already up to 90 so I can't really do much increasing to it)?
It takes something like 100,000 hours for the panel to reach its half life.
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post #1437 of 1677 Old 03-08-2015, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by andy6915 View Post
Well you have obviously skipped many of my posts. I've said I use component, more than than once at that.
No, I didnt, I was just trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, trying to make sense of your problem, because colorspace native with color settings of 70 oversaturate and clip/crush color detail badly. A setting of 60 still clips colors, just not to the point where 70 does.

Ive asked you twice now what system and what game you are using, and you still have not said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy6915 View Post
I don't care that you think 60 is too high, 50 just flat-out looks bad and lacking color to me. No amount of posting will change my mind on that, I won't use a setting that looks worse to me. And honestly, I doubt 60 would fail that color test.
Well fortunately, what you or I think has nothing to do with calibration standards and accuracy. It is something that can be measured and determined to be in or out of spec. Native + 60 color still crushes color detail. And it still fails the SMW green color test. I just tested it again to make sure. Its not just what I think, its a fact. 22point8 just posted settings that he produced with calibration instruments and software. Look at his color setting, its 44.

If you like higher settings, thats your perogative, its your set. The games just wont look like its designers intended it to look, thats all. You will not be able to see all the color details programmed into the game at those levels, and thats not simply my opinion, its a fact.

Displays: Samsung PN51F5300BFXA, PN51F4500AFXA, PN51F4500BFXA


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post #1438 of 1677 Old 03-08-2015, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by 22point8 View Post
I wanted to see what the i1 display pro .ccss corrections were like vs profiling against an i1 Pro.

The default plasma file was almost perfect vs the i1 Pro.

I made a my own .ccss file and figured out how to make it appear as an option in HCFR (put it in C:\Users\your_username\AppData\Roaming\color) and after some slight adjustments I was back to my old readings except...

It seems that although profiling the i1d3 to the i1pro improves the xy accuracy, it also has the limitation of not reading light output (Y) as accurately.

For example
i1d3 profiled to i1 Pro = 140nit (60hz) 130nit (96hz)
.ccss made from the same i1 Pro= 160nit (60hz) 150nit (96hz)

So now I can see why people thought it was a bit too bright, it really was! The plasma cells are larger than normal because they the panel is only 1024x768, and the reason the F8500 was able to put out so much light was its bigger cells.

If you want to reduce light output to 120cdm2 reduce contrast to 82, reducing cell light to 14 or 15 achieves the same but messed up the greyscale.

Anyway, here are the component settings, I was able to get the saturation pretty good now that HCFR lets you measure individually.


Thanks for this!

Regarding the brightness, I recently found that 20 CL was just too high for my room setting, Ive actually been using 13-14 and its fine. ABL really hasnt been rearing its ugly head either, guess the content Ive been watching/playing hasnt had an issue.

Will try these settings soon.

You should post them over at shmups.

Displays: Samsung PN51F5300BFXA, PN51F4500AFXA, PN51F4500BFXA


Last edited by Josh128; 03-08-2015 at 04:48 PM.
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post #1439 of 1677 Old 03-08-2015, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by 22point8 View Post
I wanted to see what the i1 display pro .ccss corrections were like vs profiling against an i1 Pro.

The default plasma file was almost perfect vs the i1 Pro.

I made a my own .ccss file and figured out how to make it appear as an option in HCFR (put it in C:\Users\your_username\AppData\Roaming\color) and after some slight adjustments I was back to my old readings except...

It seems that although profiling the i1d3 to the i1pro improves the xy accuracy, it also has the limitation of not reading light output (Y) as accurately.

For example
i1d3 profiled to i1 Pro = 140nit (60hz) 130nit (96hz)
.ccss made from the same i1 Pro= 160nit (60hz) 150nit (96hz)

So now I can see why people thought it was a bit too bright, it really was! The plasma cells are larger than normal because they the panel is only 1024x768, and the reason the F8500 was able to put out so much light was its bigger cells.

If you want to reduce light output to 120cdm2 reduce contrast to 82, reducing cell light to 14 or 15 achieves the same but messed up the greyscale.

Anyway, here are the component settings, I was able to get the saturation pretty good now that HCFR lets you measure individually.


Some good, some bad. Your color tone choice was awful, all it did was make everything look like it had a green tint, standard is clearly the best looking and most even option. Turning the gamma down was bad, just made everything darker than it should be. Flesh tone should stay neutral. And the color space choices were definitely inferior to just selecting native, trees that were supposed to be light green just looked brownish. And it looks awful if you don't keep the cell light maxed, which was bad for me since I was wanting to keep it around 12 or 14. And the color is definitely too low, I am LITERALLY seeing a drain in color to the point that a photograph on screen is more colorless than the real life object.

But this still helped me a lot, at least the white balance finally looks good for instance.
---

Anyway, I'm noticing something weird. I have a very faint vertical mark on the screen. I can only really see it against white objects on screen. It's like you can see a slightly darker shade of white there compared to the rest of the screen, and it's thin. It's also only about 4 inches high. I think it might be image retention, but I don't truly know what the hell it is. It's smack dab in the middle of the screen, so it's bothersome. I'll have the burn in protection scrolling thing on for the next hour or two and see if it goes away. I really hope this isn't some factory defect I didn't know about earlier.

EDIT:

Oh hell, looks like I might have this?

http://www.tweakguides.com/HDTV_10.html

Thing is, that talks like it should go the whole screen length whereas mine is only a few inches high.

Last edited by andy6915; 03-08-2015 at 06:03 PM.
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post #1440 of 1677 Old 03-09-2015, 05:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy6915 View Post
Some good, some bad. Your color tone choice was awful, all it did was make everything look like it had a green tint, standard is clearly the best looking and most even option. Turning the gamma down was bad, just made everything darker than it should be. Flesh tone should stay neutral. And the color space choices were definitely inferior to just selecting native, trees that were supposed to be light green just looked brownish. And it looks awful if you don't keep the cell light maxed, which was bad for me since I was wanting to keep it around 12 or 14. And the color is definitely too low, I am LITERALLY seeing a drain in color to the point that a photograph on screen is more colorless than the real life object.

But this still helped me a lot, at least the white balance finally looks good for instance.
---

Anyway, I'm noticing something weird. I have a very faint vertical mark on the screen. I can only really see it against white objects on screen. It's like you can see a slightly darker shade of white there compared to the rest of the screen, and it's thin. It's also only about 4 inches high. I think it might be image retention, but I don't truly know what the hell it is. It's smack dab in the middle of the screen, so it's bothersome. I'll have the burn in protection scrolling thing on for the next hour or two and see if it goes away. I really hope this isn't some factory defect I didn't know about earlier.

EDIT:

Oh hell, looks like I might have this?

http://www.tweakguides.com/HDTV_10.html

Thing is, that talks like it should go the whole screen length whereas mine is only a few inches high.
Hi Andy, seems you have been accustomed to uncalibrated images.
Those settings by 22point8 are achieved by using a meter and calibrated to standards.
There is a difference between preference and accuracy.
Tvs are not calibrated to look like real life but to get as close as to what the content creator was looking at.
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