Samsung PNxxF4500 Owners Thread - Page 51 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1501 of 1677 Old 03-16-2015, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by ADU View Post
If it's not burn-in, IR or line bleed, then I'm stumped. Maybe the panel is defective.
Some in this topic just a bit ago suggested it's a voltage issue where it's getting too little voltage to all parts of the, as I understood it. My interpretation is that it has too little electricity to light up as much on those parts of the screen as the rest.

To give an example of how it's hard to see though, I completed a game recently. The end credits text was completely white, the kind of thing that should trigger it. But the text passing through that part of the screen got no darker.

Line bleed is possible if it's that image you posted, but it's a heck of a lot more faint and hard-to-impossible to see based on what is on screen, and it's not connected to any actual objects on screen. They're always in the same place when they're visible though. This isn't even getting into that vertical thing that someone else described EXACTLY as I have it, as if it's something universal to the model.

If I was to get this replaced with another of the same model through Samsung, how would I? I ordered it new off of Amazon and it was shipped, so I don't really have a receipt or anything. Or would I be able to take it into a Samsung store (if I'm even near one) to get it at least fixed? If it really is voltage, that should be easy for a specialist. The vertical thing bothers me a lot less than these horizontal things, they're more visible.
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post #1502 of 1677 Old 03-17-2015, 04:01 AM
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Originally Posted by ADU View Post
I don't know if Game would make any difference in lag btw, esp. if you have the above features already disabled in the Standard or Movie modes.
It doesnt, Ive done two different photo tests and they were identical with game mode on and off.

Displays: Samsung PN51F5300BFXA, PN51F4500AFXA, PN51F4500BFXA

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post #1503 of 1677 Old 03-17-2015, 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by 22point8 View Post

F4500 160/0.007=22857:1 on/off contrast
The picture quality on theses sets are amazing for dark room viewing. However, I'd be interested to know if the 4500 passes the 1080p/24 Cadence test. I've noticed a lot of judder in 24p material even with cinema smooth enabled (maybe even worse as it seems to introduce some flicker to my eyes as well). Maybe I'm just sensitive to it or I've just been watching movies with where the cameraman is panning to quickly.
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post #1504 of 1677 Old 03-19-2015, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by johnnymacIII View Post
The picture quality on theses sets are amazing for dark room viewing. However, I'd be interested to know if the 4500 passes the 1080p/24 Cadence test. I've noticed a lot of judder in 24p material even with cinema smooth enabled (maybe even worse as it seems to introduce some flicker to my eyes as well). Maybe I'm just sensitive to it or I've just been watching movies with where the cameraman is panning to quickly.
Fwiw, I tried Cinema Smooth with a couple Blu-ray movies on both the F5300 and F4500, and it seemed to work as advertised. Cinema Smooth does not perform any type of soap opera effect (aka frame interpolation) to smooth out the motion. It just eliminates the asymmetric 3:2 telecine judder that normally occurs when "pulling down" 24fps film-based content to 60Hz.

Since 60Hz isn't evenly divisible by 24, the odd film frames are normally displayed 2 times, and the even frames are displayed 3 times, in a continuous asymmetric 2, 3, 2, 3, 2, 3... cadence. The Cinema Smooth feature just increases the refresh rate of the display to 96Hz, so each film frame can be displayed 4 times, in a steady 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4... cadence, rather than using an asymmetric 3:2 pattern.

The "steadiness" of the "4:4" 96Hz Cinema Smooth cadence may make the motion seem a bit more "jerky" though, because each film frame is essentially "held" on screen for 4 refreshes. "Jerkiness" isn't the same thing as 3:2 "judder" though, if that makes any sense.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecine#Telecine_judder
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerkiness

A lot of people use the term "judder", when they actually mean "jerkiness".

A typical movie projector will only display each film or DV frame 2 or sometimes 3 times btw, resulting in a 48Hz, or 72Hz display rate.

If you're used to watching movies at 60Hz on a CRT or plasma TV though, then the 3:2 cadence and judder at that refresh rate may actually seem more "natural" to your eyes than the faster (and steadier) 96Hz Cinema Smooth rate.

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Last edited by ADU; 03-19-2015 at 10:22 PM.
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post #1505 of 1677 Old 03-21-2015, 12:13 PM
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Hours

Just checked my hours, thought it would be about 3000, it was 1348hrs.
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post #1506 of 1677 Old 03-21-2015, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 22point8 View Post
Just checked my hours, thought it would be about 3000, it was 1348hrs.
1980 here, since mid October 2014 (5 months).
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post #1507 of 1677 Old 03-21-2015, 07:14 PM
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I can't decide between -1 gamma or 0 gamma for my PN43F4500B.

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Originally Posted by 22point8 View Post
Just checked my hours, thought it would be about 3000, it was 1348hrs.
How do you check that?

Last edited by andy6915; 03-21-2015 at 07:23 PM.
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post #1508 of 1677 Old 03-22-2015, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by andy6915 View Post
I can't decide between -1 gamma or 0 gamma for my PN43F4500B.

How do you check that?
I use the -1 gamma, with 22points latest settings a few pages back.

Using the remote, Mute 737 Enter.
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post #1509 of 1677 Old 03-22-2015, 03:08 PM
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This is what I do, and don't look around in any other menus or you could mess up the TV:


While the TV is in standby mode:
Press the {INFO}, {MENU}, {MUTE} & {POWER} buttons.

The TV will turn on with the Service Menu displayed.
Use the {UP} or {DOWN} buttons to select "SVC"
"PANEL DISPLAY TIME" will be one of the items listed.

To exit, press the {POWER} button.


NOTE: After exiting, all picture settings will be reset to
default values. So make sure to write down custom
adjustments before accessing the Service Menu.
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post #1510 of 1677 Old 03-22-2015, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 22point8 View Post
This is what I do, and don't look around in any other menus or you could mess up the TV:


While the TV is in standby mode:
Press the {INFO}, {MENU}, {MUTE} & {POWER} buttons.

The TV will turn on with the Service Menu displayed.
Use the {UP} or {DOWN} buttons to select "SVC"
"PANEL DISPLAY TIME" will be one of the items listed.

To exit, press the {POWER} button.


NOTE: After exiting, all picture settings will be reset to
default values. So make sure to write down custom
adjustments before accessing the Service Menu.
Or if you just do the Mute 7 3 7 Enter, it will show the panel time and not rest the TVs settings.
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post #1511 of 1677 Old 03-22-2015, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by FAUguy View Post
Or if you just do the Mute 7 3 7 Enter, it will show the panel time and not rest the TVs settings.
Cool, didn't know that.
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post #1512 of 1677 Old 03-22-2015, 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted by FAUguy View Post
I use the -1 gamma, with 22points latest settings a few pages back.

Using the remote, Mute 737 Enter.
Well that doesn't help. His "B model" component settings show 0 for gamma and a white balance that is barely changed aside from 3 settings getting slightly bumped into the negatives, and I have a B model. His A model is the one that has the giant white balance changes and has the -1 gamma. So you're telling me to use the A model's gamma with the B model's white balance, which makes no sense. And having set it at -1 for a while, the white balance being -1 seems to look better despite his saying B models should use 0.

So either he or you made a mistake since B models aren't even recommended to be at -1 according to you.

the settings I've been told to use for my model-




the settings given a few pages before for the A model-
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post #1513 of 1677 Old 03-23-2015, 12:02 AM
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Also, I'm confused about something. When I bought this, everything I read said it was 720p only. I decided I still wanted it though, but knew it wouldn't look super amazing at 43 inches with only 720p. I ALSO read that component can't do 1080p.

Yet... My PN43F4500 can not only do 1080p well, it can do it with mere component cables. What the heck? I mean, I'm not complaining. I'm just very confused about how that happened. Look at this review, the one that convinced me to get it, and note how it says it can only do 720p.

http://reviews.plasmatvbuying
guide.com/samsung-plasma-tv/samsung-pn43f4500.html

(had to break up the link for some reason)
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post #1514 of 1677 Old 03-23-2015, 12:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy6915 View Post
Well that doesn't help. His "B model" component settings show 0 for gamma and a white balance that is barely changed aside from 3 settings getting slightly bumped into the negatives, and I have a B model. His A model is the one that has the giant white balance changes and has the -1 gamma. So you're telling me to use the A model's gamma with the B model's white balance, which makes no sense. And having set it at -1 for a while, the white balance being -1 seems to look better despite his saying B models should use 0.

So either he or you made a mistake since B models aren't even recommended to be at -1 according to you.

the settings I've been told to use for my model-



the settings given a few pages before for the A model-
The white balance settings on the 'A' models have 25 as the middle position, the 'B' models have 0 as the middle position. The gains and offsets are mislabled on the 'A' model, but correctly labeled on the 'B' model.

The reason the gamma is 0 on the component input is a bit harder to explain but I don't have time right now.
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post #1515 of 1677 Old 03-23-2015, 01:38 AM
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Originally Posted by 22point8 View Post
The white balance settings on the 'A' models have 25 as the middle position, the 'B' models have 0 as the middle position. The gains and offsets are mislabled on the 'A' model, but correctly labeled on the 'B' model.

The reason the gamma is 0 on the component input is a bit harder to explain but I don't have time right now.
So... Which do say I should use, -1 or 0 for gamma?

And I'll await that explanation. Gamma 0 just seems too bright, and that's after using it at 0 gamma since I bought it, so I'm already very well used to it. But no matter what, things always seemed to have more lighting than they should. Until I changed it to -1. So if you think it should be 0, I'm quite curious about why. If you think -1, then I don't even need an explanation since it's pretty obvious.

Last edited by andy6915; 03-23-2015 at 01:41 AM.
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post #1516 of 1677 Old 03-23-2015, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by andy6915 View Post
So... Which do say I should use, -1 or 0 for gamma?

And I'll await that explanation. Gamma 0 just seems too bright, and that's after using it at 0 gamma since I bought it, so I'm already very well used to it. But no matter what, things always seemed to have more lighting than they should. Until I changed it to -1. So if you think it should be 0, I'm quite curious about why. If you think -1, then I don't even need an explanation since it's pretty obvious.
This is what I'm using for HDMI inputs Cable and Blu-Ray.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/167-pl...l#post32216153
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post #1517 of 1677 Old 03-23-2015, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by andy6915 View Post
Also, I'm confused about something. When I bought this, everything I read said it was 720p only. I decided I still wanted it though, but knew it wouldn't look super amazing at 43 inches with only 720p. I ALSO read that component can't do 1080p.

Yet... My PN43F4500 can not only do 1080p well, it can do it with mere component cables. What the heck? I mean, I'm not complaining. I'm just very confused about how that happened. Look at this review, the one that convinced me to get it, and note how it says it can only do 720p.

http://reviews.plasmatvbuying
guide.com/samsung-plasma-tv/samsung-pn43f4500.html

(had to break up the link for some reason)
The set is only a 1024x768 fixed resolution, so technically its considered 720p. Although it can accept 1080p, it cant actually display it-- it downscales it to its native resolution (1024x768). The TV is just showing you that its receiving 1080p, and the custom algorithm built for downscaling that resolution is activated. The set has several custom scaling algorithms for different input resolutions-- for SD and HDTV, it has 240p,480i,480p,720p,1080i, and 1080p. So while it can accept all of these resolutions, in the end its only actually displaying their content in a 1024x768 frame.

The difference between them is the way it stretches/upscales or shrinks/downscales them into its native res.

As for 1080p over component, its certainly technically possible, but HDMI is a better choice for that high of a resolution. You have a rather high probability of crosstalk/noise and other artifacts creeping in at such high bandwidths. A good discussion can be found below:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/149-bl...component.html
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Displays: Samsung PN51F5300BFXA, PN51F4500AFXA, PN51F4500BFXA


Last edited by Josh128; 03-23-2015 at 08:00 PM.
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post #1518 of 1677 Old 03-23-2015, 11:40 PM
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The set is only a 1024x768 fixed resolution, so technically its considered 720p. Although it can accept 1080p, it cant actually display it-- it downscales it to its native resolution (1024x768). The TV is just showing you that its receiving 1080p, and the custom algorithm built for downscaling that resolution is activated. The set has several custom scaling algorithms for different input resolutions-- for SD and HDTV, it has 240p,480i,480p,720p,1080i, and 1080p. So while it can accept all of these resolutions, in the end its only actually displaying their content in a 1024x768 frame.

The difference between them is the way it stretches/upscales or shrinks/downscales them into its native res.

As for 1080p over component, its certainly technically possible, but HDMI is a better choice for that high of a resolution. You have a rather high probability of crosstalk/noise and other artifacts creeping in at such high bandwidths. A good discussion can be found below:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/149-bl...component.html
Well it does a damn good job of it, because 1080p looks pretty nice on the tv regardless of how it does it. I definitely notice an increase in visual quality when it uses the 1080p signal.
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post #1519 of 1677 Old 03-24-2015, 03:53 AM
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Well it does a damn good job of it, because 1080p looks pretty nice on the tv regardless of how it does it. I definitely notice an increase in visual quality when it uses the 1080p signal.
I agree, thats the nature of super-sampling/downscaling. Objects in motion, especially, can exhibit a lot of the detail of the original image.

Where it fall short is in the display of true 1080p text and checkerboard patterns-- it cant display them properly due to its lower resolution.

Displays: Samsung PN51F5300BFXA, PN51F4500AFXA, PN51F4500BFXA

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post #1520 of 1677 Old 03-26-2015, 12:42 AM
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Talking of Gamma, anyone tried +1?
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post #1521 of 1677 Old 03-30-2015, 02:17 AM
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Originally Posted by 22point8 View Post
Ok, I've now added a 'B' column for the white balance. A is for the F4500A/F4900, B is for F4500B/H4500/H4900.
Which of these do you recommend for gaming consoles? I'm currently using the 1080p60 setting for my PS3 and Wii U.

Also, why is that setting the only one with Motion Lightning turned on?
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post #1522 of 1677 Old 03-31-2015, 04:48 PM
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No one has yet to say if B's should use -1 gamma or 0 gamma yet...
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post #1523 of 1677 Old 03-31-2015, 05:30 PM
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No one has yet to say if B's should use -1 gamma or 0 gamma yet...
That' because it depends on many variables that you can't measure without tools. Choose what looks best to you.
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post #1524 of 1677 Old 04-02-2015, 02:52 PM
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Which of these do you recommend for gaming consoles? I'm currently using the 1080p60 setting for my PS3 and Wii U.

Also, why is that setting the only one with Motion Lightning turned on?
You can turn off Motion Lighting, I liked that in increased gamma from 2.35 to 2.4, but in actual use it can do all sorts of crazy dimming.

I use the 1080p60 setting for gaming.

As for gamma 0 vs -1, if you are in a good viewing environment -1 will add more depth to the image , gamma 0 might have a slight haze in comparison. In a bright environment you might want to use +1.

With analog inputs there are other factors at play like 0 IRE black vs 7.5 IRE black, sub brightness that determines the mid point of the brightness which would then affect the gamma. The signal voltage might determine what black is, or the colour subcarrier pal colours or ntsc colours (auto might be a good idea, my custom settings are for rec709 which is closer to pal, I find ntsc red too orange looking).
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post #1525 of 1677 Old 04-07-2015, 04:43 AM
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Anyone know whether panel lottery applies to samsung plasma tvs?

H4900 51" (2014) which is F4500B equivalent: Panel type SD01
H5000 60" (2014): Panel type SS01

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post #1526 of 1677 Old 04-08-2015, 04:36 PM
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So I little thingy from a 50 hour game has been in the upper left corner for about 60 hours now, though it APPEARS to be fading. How do I play that game again without getting more image retention? It's a very long game, and that part of the HUD is up there for almost the entire game length. So the chance of burn-in for that game is high. What would be suggested? Maybe every hour an a half of playing activate 10 minutes of burn-in protection scrolling? Would that be enough to undo any temporary retention that an hour and a half of that static HUD item caused, or would the scrolling need to be for a lot longer (like an hour and a half of scrolling too)? I don't want to risk this happening again next time I play it, and need to know how to keep it from doing it again.
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post #1527 of 1677 Old 04-08-2015, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by andy6915 View Post
So I little thingy from a 50 hour game has been in the upper left corner for about 60 hours now, though it APPEARS to be fading. How do I play that game again without getting more image retention? It's a very long game, and that part of the HUD is up there for almost the entire game length. So the chance of burn-in for that game is high. What would be suggested? Maybe every hour an a half of playing activate 10 minutes of burn-in protection scrolling? Would that be enough to undo any temporary retention that an hour and a half of that static HUD item caused, or would the scrolling need to be for a lot longer (like an hour and a half of scrolling too)? I don't want to risk this happening again next time I play it, and need to know how to keep it from doing it again.
I play a lot of Destiny, hours at a time. I'm running the scrolling after nearly each session. No IR. I basically just turn it on and walk away. The TV eventually turns itself off. I figure I'm trying to rack up 200 hours anyway. I can do this because it's not my family's main TV. You may or may not have this luxury. I think you have the right idea though.
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post #1528 of 1677 Old 04-10-2015, 08:33 PM
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The scrolling dims after about 10 minutes so it may not be as effective unless you restart it.The spots on my screen is caused by the SD bars(when it's not zoomed).Ive gotten rid of some of it for a while and then it seems like it returns.Ive done a bunch of(about 1 hr)scrolling sessions but never did any really long ones as its a pain too keep restarting it all the time.
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post #1529 of 1677 Old 04-11-2015, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy6915 View Post
So I little thingy from a 50 hour game has been in the upper left corner for about 60 hours now, though it APPEARS to be fading. How do I play that game again without getting more image retention? It's a very long game, and that part of the HUD is up there for almost the entire game length. So the chance of burn-in for that game is high. What would be suggested? Maybe every hour an a half of playing activate 10 minutes of burn-in protection scrolling? Would that be enough to undo any temporary retention that an hour and a half of that static HUD item caused, or would the scrolling need to be for a lot longer (like an hour and a half of scrolling too)? I don't want to risk this happening again next time I play it, and need to know how to keep it from doing it again.
Your best bet is after gaming for a couple of hours, take a 15-20 minute break and run a movie or some non-logo OTA or satellite video content using the "vivid" (the actual name slips my mind ATM) preset.

Im not a fan of the scrolling as Ive run it before to try to clear IR and I find its not nearly as effective as full screen video.

Displays: Samsung PN51F5300BFXA, PN51F4500AFXA, PN51F4500BFXA

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post #1530 of 1677 Old 04-16-2015, 05:36 AM
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Is there a way to stop automatic screen dimming? I try to put it on anti burn-in scrolling, but the screen dims after a few minutes as if it's saving power or something. But that dimming means the scrolling can't do its job since the bright parts aren't bright enough to get rid of image retention once dimmed. I need that dimming to stop happening, because it's making the activation of the scrolling pointless unless I come back every 5 minutes to reset the scrolling feature so it's bright again.
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