Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Owners Thread (No Street Price Talk) - Page 481 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #14401 of 14451 Old 03-01-2019, 06:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sschen View Post
Does anyone wipe dust off their screen?

I have never wiped the screen in my 3-4 years of ownership. Recently by chance and in the right light, I noticed there is a small layer of dust on the screen. I am keen to give it a wipe but don't want to just use anything in case I damage the screen. Do any owners here have any suggestion?

The outer screen is extremely delicate so be very gentle. The AR Coating is easily damaged so don't rub or press too hard. Light pressure only.



Get a couple of soft microfiber cloths. T-Shirt material works well too.



Spray one cloth lightly with water and gently wipe the screen clean, then quickly dry the screen with the other dry cloth and gently buff it dry.



Only clean the screen when the TV is stone-cold. If the screen is hot or warm this leaves streaks because the heat dries the moisture before you have a chance to wipe it with the drying cloth. There is no need to use any sort of Screen Cleaning Solution.



.
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post #14402 of 14451 Old 03-01-2019, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post
The outer screen is extremely delicate so be very gentle. The AR Coating is easily damaged so don't rub or press too hard. Light pressure only.



Get a couple of soft microfiber cloths. T-Shirt material works well too.



Spray one cloth lightly with water and gently wipe the screen clean, then quickly dry the screen with the other dry cloth and gently buff it dry.



Only clean the screen when the TV is stone-cold. If the screen is hot or warm this leaves streaks because the heat dries the moisture before you have a chance to wipe it with the drying cloth. There is no need to use any sort of Screen Cleaning Solution.



.
Thanks very much for your detailed instructions. I had the funny feeling it won't be an "easy" clean and wipe job. I will have to see if I can dig up two new microfibre clothes in the house. If not, to get brand new ones.
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post #14403 of 14451 Old 03-01-2019, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sschen View Post
Does anyone wipe dust off their screen?

I have never wiped the screen in my 3-4 years of ownership. Recently by chance and in the right light, I noticed there is a small layer of dust on the screen. I am keen to give it a wipe but don't want to just use anything in case I damage the screen. Do any owners here have any suggestion?
if you want to be extra careful, by all means follow the instructions above. i've wiped mine off, usually with just a dry microfibre(clean but not brand new) cloth. never really put any thought into, but i'm sure i've done it a dozen times or more. i wipe down my glass tables the same way if it's just dust. I only break out the windex(for the tables, not the tv) when there's something 'sticky' to clean off. i've never put any liquids on my tv screen

Displays: Samsung PN64F8500/JVC X35
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post #14404 of 14451 Old 03-02-2019, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAMMY60 View Post
Does anyone know if the boards and power supply from a PN60F8500 would work in a PN64F8500 I have both models and was considering keeping

one of them for parts as opposed to selling. Both displays have approx. 6000 hours and were manufactured in 2014. Any advice is appreciated.
If the boards have different part numbers it won't work. Don't try it. Boards need to be exact. Guaranteed if the boards are different that thing will start blinking some error codes.
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post #14405 of 14451 Old 03-07-2019, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Test Ickles View Post
If the boards have different part numbers it won't work. Don't try it. Boards need to be exact. Guaranteed if the boards are different that thing will start blinking some error codes.
Ok thanks for the reply. I have not taken either of them apart to check board numbers since they both work just fine but was thinking of keeping the 60 for spare parts just in case as opposed to selling it.
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post #14406 of 14451 Old 03-12-2019, 01:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill King View Post
I've had a problem since day one. There's also been a constant small but distinct image on screen where the volume metric pops up on left side of screen. And depending on the background, a severe ghost image radiating out from there. See attached. Anybody else have this problem?
Hi Bill,
I have the Samsung PN60f8500 and have what looks like almost the exact same problem. I'm planning on having a local repairman have a look at it. Based on photos I sent him he thinks it could be the display panel, which Samsung no longer makes. I contacted Samsung and they're offering some kind of discount on a new TV because they don't make the replacement part, the problem is I don't really want an LED or QLED (which is really an LED). I'd rather get this repaired if I can. If you've learned anything since you posted about this issue please let me know, would be greatly helpful. Samsung according to published reports is getting back into the OLED business, but they won't be out for another year at the soonest, so if I can't get this TV repaired I'm hoping they'll offer a discount on an OLED when they come out.
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Last edited by Dolby2020; 03-12-2019 at 03:50 PM.
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post #14407 of 14451 Old 03-12-2019, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post
The outer screen is extremely delicate so be very gentle. The AR Coating is easily damaged so don't rub or press too hard. Light pressure only.



Get a couple of soft microfiber cloths. T-Shirt material works well too.



Spray one cloth lightly with water and gently wipe the screen clean, then quickly dry the screen with the other dry cloth and gently buff it dry.



Only clean the screen when the TV is stone-cold. If the screen is hot or warm this leaves streaks because the heat dries the moisture before you have a chance to wipe it with the drying cloth. There is no need to use any sort of Screen Cleaning Solution.



.

Any reason not to use mild soap?
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post #14408 of 14451 Old 03-18-2019, 01:23 AM
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Questions about LG C8. I currently have the Samsung that this thread is about. My question is, does the C8 deliver the same brightness? I assume everything else is better cause of what ive read (?)
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post #14409 of 14451 Old 03-18-2019, 05:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by box4m View Post
Questions about LG C8. I currently have the Samsung that this thread is about. My question is, does the C8 deliver the same brightness? I assume everything else is better cause of what ive read (?)
I got a 65" C8 to replace my 64F8500 6 months ago. I still regret it.

Yes, the C8 can easily be made eye-searingly bright compared to the F8500. No problem in the brightness department.

The other good thing is that the WebOS firmware is very nice and snappy, and the built-in applications are up-to-date and are still being updated.

Due to the sample-and-hold technology used by OLED panels, motion handling is just awful compared to plasma. Football is darn near unwatchable due to blurring. This can be somewhat mitigated by enabling black frame insertion, but this darkens the picture and somewhat over-saturates the colors.


Panel uniformity is a really big issue. Vertical banding is pretty much guaranteed (visible with a 5% grey slide), and various tinting issues are common. You might be lucky and get a panel that does not make the banding and tinting visible in normal source material (we were lucky in that respect), but many people are not so lucky: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...ignetting.html


There is limited 4K source material available, and most people's eyes do not benefit from 4K anyway at normal viewing distances.

Up-scaling from 780p and 1080i is imperfect, and makes defects in the source (compression artifacts, etc.) much more noticeable.

There is so little HDR and Dolby Video material available that within a couple of months I had exhausted all there is that I am interested in watching.

I ask myself.... I spent a lot for money, for what?
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post #14410 of 14451 Old 03-18-2019, 06:17 AM
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The Oled banding thread is shocking.. I mean, these are really expensive tv sets..


The fact that of the banding is happening in dark content is no excuse, because of the nature of the human eye, we perceive 50% brightness (of the tv screen) already at 18% real brightness output of the tv..


That means that we are much more sensitive to details in dark areas and when there is banding going on in 5 to 10%, then this impacts a lot of movies..


And when you once saw the banding, it somehow gets lasered into your brain.. It drives you nuts..


Plasma tech is here to stay.. I ignore 4k and HDR, but I also benefit from 4k because all modern content is produced and mastered in 4k.. it looks better then ever, even in 1080p.. so it all tickles down to my beloved Plasma tv..





You might return your oled, and get a second hand plasma.. You could be happy again and regain some money..

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post #14411 of 14451 Old 03-18-2019, 06:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowspawn View Post
I got a 65" C8 to replace my 64F8500 6 months ago. I still regret it.

Yes, the C8 can easily be made eye-searingly bright compared to the F8500. No problem in the brightness department.

The other good thing is that the WebOS firmware is very nice and snappy, and the built-in applications are up-to-date and are still being updated.

Due to the sample-and-hold technology used by OLED panels, motion handling is just awful compared to plasma. Football is darn near unwatchable due to blurring. This can be somewhat mitigated by enabling black frame insertion, but this darkens the picture and somewhat over-saturates the colors.


Panel uniformity is a really big issue. Vertical banding is pretty much guaranteed (visible with a 5% grey slide), and various tinting issues are common. You might be lucky and get a panel that does not make the banding and tinting visible in normal source material (we were lucky in that respect), but many people are not so lucky: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...ignetting.html


There is limited 4K source material available, and most people's eyes do not benefit from 4K anyway at normal viewing distances.

Up-scaling from 780p and 1080i is imperfect, and makes defects in the source (compression artifacts, etc.) much more noticeable.

There is so little HDR and Dolby Video material available that within a couple of months I had exhausted all there is that I am interested in watching.

I ask myself.... I spent a lot for money, for what?

I have a 60F8500 in the living room and a 55 C7 in the bedroom and I STILL to this day would rather watch the F8500. And exactly for the reasons you stated above.



Motion on the Samsung is near perfect and noticeably better than the LG. Would a Sony OLED be better? Possibly. It would still be tough to beat the plasma.



For what I watch (Directv and Blu ray mostly) and with bias lighting behind the F8500, it gives it an OLEDesque picture anyway so I'm in no hurry to replace it.


If it can hold up...(starting to get the power supply restart many have before it goes bye bye)
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post #14412 of 14451 Old 03-18-2019, 07:00 AM
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As a new owner of a 65” B8 and still an owner of the 60F8500, if you don’t have the HDR 4k content the B8 isn’t an upgrade. However, for me I think Amazon, Netflix, and iTunes with HDR 4k content makes for a noticeable picture upgrade on the B8, assuming you have the internet connection speed as well. The ARC functions a little better as well.

But, disregarding the dependability the 60F8500 has aged incredibly well.
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post #14413 of 14451 Old 03-18-2019, 06:40 PM
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When I get up enough motivation I'm going to lug my VT60 back downstairs and start using it as my main display over LG B6. I'm going to say it. On SDR and 1080p Blue rays Plasma is better!
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post #14414 of 14451 Old 03-19-2019, 01:25 AM
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This all sounds terrifying and probably puts me off buying a new one.
Incredible that 2019 cant deliver... Are you sure you all are not superpicky? 😞
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post #14415 of 14451 Old 03-19-2019, 10:26 AM
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The Samsung F8500 Plasma tv was some how included in the 2014 Value Electronics shootout..


https://www.cnet.com/news/lg-wins-va...shootout-2014/


It was a 2013 model but they placed it on top of the other screens and it made it to 1st place together with the lg oled (back in the days, these oleds where also full hd)


If you would make TV shoothout today with Plasma tvs.. they would be in front of all lcd tvs, and there would be a close fight at the top..


Both Oleds and Plasmas have their pros and cons, that was the case in 2014, and both have the same pros and cons in 2019..

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post #14416 of 14451 Old 03-20-2019, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Bruce2019 View Post
The Samsung F8500 Plasma tv was some how included in the 2014 Value Electronics shootout...... It was a 2013 model but they placed it on top of the other screens and it made it to 1st place together with the lg oled (back in the days, these oleds where also full hd)
Samsung extended production of the 2013 F8500 into 2014. I remember people were still buying them very late in 2014, almost a year after the supply of Panasonic's dried up.

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post #14417 of 14451 Old 03-20-2019, 07:18 AM
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Samsung extended production of the 2013 F8500 into 2014. I remember people were still buying them very late in 2014, almost a year after the supply of Panasonic's dried up.



________________________________________


My purchase date was 11/2014, so 100% correct. I’m assuming they kept production up until certain parts were depleted. I’m hoping some of the problematic parts might have been addressed as well.
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post #14418 of 14451 Old 03-20-2019, 08:29 AM
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This all sounds terrifying and probably puts me off buying a new one.
Incredible that 2019 cant deliver... Are you sure you all are not superpicky? 😞

Not superpicky at all. It's just when you have them in the same house you can tell the difference. Is the LG Oled a bad TV? Nope.



Just think the F8500 is a little better. (At least with SDR and 1080 stuff.) 4K HDR stuff does look pretty cool on the Oled.
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post #14419 of 14451 Old 03-20-2019, 10:43 AM
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I own the PN64F8500 and two LG C8 OLEDs. In my opinion the LG C8 OLED is definitely an upgrade, even on non-4k content. Personally I have never been bothered by motion handling on OLED but i believe those that are so I would guess it's dependent on whether or not you notice it.

My opinions are unscientific but I've owned several projectors and flat screen displays over the past 20 years and to me the C8 OLED looks better than the 64f8500 in the areas of:

Perceived brightness of white/light areas
Absolutely black
Perceived sharpness (plasma has a "softer" look to it IMO)

I still watch the PN64F8500 display and enjoy it, but just wanted to chime in regarding the comparison.
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Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Owners Thread (No Street Price Talk)

I think it is YMMV based on factors outside of the OLED and plasma debate. Stuff like does the motion issues bother you, and is your set up right to maximize the 4k part. I got a 65” B8 for the same price as the 60” plasma. So between the size increase, the 4k, and being able to use the 60” plasma in my secondary set up I’m happy. If it had been a one for one switch, well I would be a little less happy.
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post #14421 of 14451 Old 03-20-2019, 07:25 PM
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Anyone notice that some television shows red automobiles look almost orange on the 8500. The same car viewed in a photo on the show is cherry red and pops, but the car itself doesn’t show that way on video. Other objects appear very red in the same show as well.

Anyone know what causes this?
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post #14422 of 14451 Old 03-21-2019, 12:54 PM
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I'm considering replacing my PN60F8500 with the LG C8. I'd assumed it was an upgrade, surprised to hear that some knowledgeable folks on this site don't share that view. My Samsung, as I noted above, has issues with a cluster of stuck pixels on the left edge, but it's only really noticeable if I look for it. So I'm wondering if perhaps I should hold on to it. Virtually all "expert" reviewers say that OLED picture quality is an upgrade over plasma.


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post #14423 of 14451 Old 03-21-2019, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce2019 View Post
The Oled banding thread is shocking.. I mean, these are really expensive tv sets..


The fact that of the banding is happening in dark content is no excuse, because of the nature of the human eye, we perceive 50% brightness (of the tv screen) already at 18% real brightness output of the tv..


That means that we are much more sensitive to details in dark areas and when there is banding going on in 5 to 10%, then this impacts a lot of movies..


And when you once saw the banding, it somehow gets lasered into your brain.. It drives you nuts..


Plasma tech is here to stay.. I ignore 4k and HDR, but I also benefit from 4k because all modern content is produced and mastered in 4k.. it looks better then ever, even in 1080p.. so it all tickles down to my beloved Plasma tv..





You might return your oled, and get a second hand plasma.. You could be happy again and regain some money..

It was my understanding that the C8 (which is getting a lot of mention on this thread, and which I'm looking at getting) has resolved the banding issue that was prominent on previous OLED sets. Can anyone confirm this?
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post #14424 of 14451 Old 03-21-2019, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by shadowspawn View Post
I got a 65" C8 to replace my 64F8500 6 months ago. I still regret it.

Yes, the C8 can easily be made eye-searingly bright compared to the F8500. No problem in the brightness department.

The other good thing is that the WebOS firmware is very nice and snappy, and the built-in applications are up-to-date and are still being updated.

Due to the sample-and-hold technology used by OLED panels, motion handling is just awful compared to plasma. Football is darn near unwatchable due to blurring. This can be somewhat mitigated by enabling black frame insertion, but this darkens the picture and somewhat over-saturates the colors.


Panel uniformity is a really big issue. Vertical banding is pretty much guaranteed (visible with a 5% grey slide), and various tinting issues are common. You might be lucky and get a panel that does not make the banding and tinting visible in normal source material (we were lucky in that respect), but many people are not so lucky: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...ignetting.html


There is limited 4K source material available, and most people's eyes do not benefit from 4K anyway at normal viewing distances.

Up-scaling from 780p and 1080i is imperfect, and makes defects in the source (compression artifacts, etc.) much more noticeable.

There is so little HDR and Dolby Video material available that within a couple of months I had exhausted all there is that I am interested in watching.

I ask myself.... I spent a lot for money, for what?





Is there a general consensus among those knowledgeable that OLEDs don't handle motion as well as plasmas? Although there is no direct comparison to plasmas in this review, Rtings' reviewer offers a very positive assessment of the C8's ability to deal with motion.



I'd be concerned about motion for watching sports, not gaming, if that matters.


From Rtings LG C8 review:



The 2018 LG OLED C8 handles motion extremely well. The near instantaneous response time is excellent for watching sports or playing video games, as there is no ghosting or trailing during fast motion. Also, there is no visible flicker since there is no traditional backlight on OLED TVs, unlike Samsung's QLED technology. One downside to OLED technology is that there is some stutter when playing low frame rate content, especially when watching movies or TV Shows.




https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/c8
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post #14425 of 14451 Old 03-22-2019, 09:10 AM
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It was my understanding that the C8 (which is getting a lot of mention on this thread, and which I'm looking at getting) has resolved the banding issue that was prominent on previous OLED sets. Can anyone confirm this?

No, they have not resolved it.


Pretty much every single panel has visible banding with 5% - 10% grey slides. It's a panel lottery as to whether you get one that is bad enough to be visible in content that you watch, and whether it bothers you enough to return the TV.


There are also tinting issues with white slides.


See this thread, including the recent posts: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...ignetting.html


Understand that LG Display makes ALL the panels for everyone -- Sony, Panasonic, LG, whomever. It's a sole-source business, and it appears that they can't be bothered to do the quality control to prevent this.
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post #14426 of 14451 Old 03-22-2019, 09:30 AM
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Is there a general consensus among those knowledgeable that OLEDs don't handle motion as well as plasmas? Although there is no direct comparison to plasmas in this review, Rtings' reviewer offers a very positive assessment of the C8's ability to deal with motion.
I don't really understand where Rtings is coming from. It's common knowledge that LG is among the worst for motion handling. Sony is acknowledged as the best (something in their firmware algorithms cleans things up a bit), and Panasonic is probably better than LG (though Panny is not available in the US). It's not night-and-day different between Sony and LG, but some people notice it more than other people.

It's a scientific fact that OLED cannot handle motion as well as plasma. This is due to the fact that OLED uses sample-and-hold technology, whereas plasma turns off the pixels between each frame. This causes blur when there is panning in scenes, in football and baseball when the camera follows the ball, etc. Enabling black frame insertion (strobing) helps a lot, but that darkens the picture and over-saturates the colors somewhat.

It's subjective, and not the same for everyone, because it is a function of the interaction of your personal eye movement while you watch the display with the pixels on the display.

See here: https://www.blurbusters.com/faq/oled-motion-blur/ and here: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/pre...642112(v=vs.85)

I'm acutely sensitive to it, and on an LG C8 football is completely unwatchable with normal settings. When we had the 65" C8 calibrated by Chad B, in addition to the two ISF presets, he also calibrated the "Sports" preset (something he normally would not do) and enabled black frame insertion on that preset. I notice the loss of brightness and change in color saturation, but it makes football watchable and that's the preset we use for sports.

Last edited by shadowspawn; 03-22-2019 at 09:43 AM.
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post #14427 of 14451 Old 03-22-2019, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Dolby2020 View Post
I'm considering replacing my PN60F8500 with the LG C8. I'd assumed it was an upgrade, surprised to hear that some knowledgeable folks on this site don't share that view. My Samsung, as I noted above, has issues with a cluster of stuck pixels on the left edge, but it's only really noticeable if I look for it. So I'm wondering if perhaps I should hold on to it. Virtually all "expert" reviewers say that OLED picture quality is an upgrade over plasma.

The "expert" reviewers are operating in an ideal world. Among actual owners, it's controversial at best.


It depends on your environment, your viewing habits, and your preferences.


If you have a somewhat bright room, have a 77" panel, sit close to the screen, watch mostly 4K HDR / Dolby Vision content, like a "sharp" picture, and you are not one of those people sensitive to motion blur, OLED will blow you away with goodness.


If you have a light controlled room, don't have a 77" panel, don't sit close to the screen, watch a lot of 780p compressed cable content (including sports) that the TV has to imperfectly upscale, like an "organic" picture, and are sensitive to motion blue, you won't be impressed at all.


If you don't fit one of the above profiles perfectly, then you'll be somewhere in between.
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post #14428 of 14451 Old 03-22-2019, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by shadowspawn View Post
The "expert" reviewers are operating in an ideal world. Among actual owners, it's controversial at best.


It depends on your environment, your viewing habits, and your preferences.


If you have a somewhat bright room, have a 77" panel, sit close to the screen, watch mostly 4K HDR / Dolby Vision content, like a "sharp" picture, and you are not one of those people sensitive to motion blur, OLED will blow you away with goodness.


If you have a light controlled room, don't have a 77" panel, don't sit close to the screen, watch a lot of 780p compressed cable content (including sports) that the TV has to imperfectly upscale, like an "organic" picture, and are sensitive to motion blue, you won't be impressed at all.


If you don't fit one of the above profiles perfectly, then you'll be somewhere in between.

Well put. Although I would switch your light room conditions around.
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post #14429 of 14451 Old 03-22-2019, 10:26 AM
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I will chime in here and add my two cents: I had an 8500 for a while, but then sold it for a late model Kuro. I then grabbed a LG B6 OLED when they were on clearance. To me, and I can only speak for me, I would rather watch my OLED any day of the week. I was a die hard Plasma owner for a very long time, and I'll still defend the technology, but OLED is just on another level for me.

That being said, like the other poster, I don't notice the motion issues at all. I know that Plasma definitely handles motion better, so I'm not arguing that point. I'm just saying that I don't personally notice it. If that's something that really bothers you, then it's more of a consideration.

I'm still happy with my Pro-141FD Kuro, but I watch 95% of my content on the OLED now. I'll likely upgrade to a newer OLED model in a year or so.
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post #14430 of 14451 Old 03-22-2019, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by shadowspawn View Post
I don't really understand where Rtings is coming from. It's common knowledge that LG is among the worst for motion handling. Sony is acknowledged as the best (something in their firmware algorithms cleans things up a bit), and Panasonic is probably better than LG (though Panny is not available in the US). It's not night-and-day different between Sony and LG, but some people notice it more than other people.

It's a scientific fact that OLED cannot handle motion as well as plasma. This is due to the fact that OLED uses sample-and-hold technology, whereas plasma turns off the pixels between each frame. This causes blur when there is panning in scenes, in football and baseball when the camera follows the ball, etc. Enabling black frame insertion (strobing) helps a lot, but that darkens the picture and over-saturates the colors somewhat.

It's subjective, and not the same for everyone, because it is a function of the interaction of your personal eye movement while you watch the display with the pixels on the display.

See here: https://www.blurbusters.com/faq/oled-motion-blur/ and here: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/pre...642112(v=vs.85)

I'm acutely sensitive to it, and on an LG C8 football is completely unwatchable with normal settings. When we had the 65" C8 calibrated by Chad B, in addition to the two ISF presets, he also calibrated the "Sports" preset (something he normally would not do) and enabled black frame insertion on that preset. I notice the loss of brightness and change in color saturation, but it makes football watchable and that's the preset we use for sports.
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Originally Posted by shadowspawn View Post
No, they have not resolved it.


Pretty much every single panel has visible banding with 5% - 10% grey slides. It's a panel lottery as to whether you get one that is bad enough to be visible in content that you watch, and whether it bothers you enough to return the TV.


There are also tinting issues with white slides.


See this thread, including the recent posts: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...ignetting.html


Understand that LG Display makes ALL the panels for everyone -- Sony, Panasonic, LG, whomever. It's a sole-source business, and it appears that they can't be bothered to do the quality control to prevent this.



Enjoying this discussion. I just posed a question to Rtings asking them to respond to shadowspawn's assertion that OLED doesn't handle motion as well as plasmas. Will share as soon as they reply.
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