Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Owners Thread (No Street Price Talk) - Page 482 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #14431 of 14466 Old 03-22-2019, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolby2020 View Post
Enjoying this discussion. I just posed a question to Rtings asking them to respond to shadowspawn's assertion that OLED doesn't handle motion as well as plasmas. Will share as soon as they reply.

I'm interested in what they have to say.


Always keep in mind, that this is subjective. It's a function of how your brain unconsciously controls your eye movement during viewing, and how your brain responds to the resulting input. Some people, like me, are really sensitive to it. Other people say that they see no problem.


The most accurate generalization is probably something along the lines of "Plasma motion handling looks good for everybody, but OLED motion handling looks OK for some people but not for a lot of people".
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post #14432 of 14466 Old 03-23-2019, 07:32 AM
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Just give it a few years.. and Plasma TVs will be the next cool retro thing, with hipsters trying to get them..
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post #14433 of 14466 Old 04-18-2019, 08:32 PM
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I got a 65" C8 to replace my 64F8500 6 months ago. I still regret it.

Yes, the C8 can easily be made eye-searingly bright compared to the F8500. No problem in the brightness department.

The other good thing is that the WebOS firmware is very nice and snappy, and the built-in applications are up-to-date and are still being updated.

Due to the sample-and-hold technology used by OLED panels, motion handling is just awful compared to plasma. Football is darn near unwatchable due to blurring. This can be somewhat mitigated by enabling black frame insertion, but this darkens the picture and somewhat over-saturates the colors.


Panel uniformity is a really big issue. Vertical banding is pretty much guaranteed (visible with a 5% grey slide), and various tinting issues are common. You might be lucky and get a panel that does not make the banding and tinting visible in normal source material (we were lucky in that respect), but many people are not so lucky: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...ignetting.html


There is limited 4K source material available, and most people's eyes do not benefit from 4K anyway at normal viewing distances.

Up-scaling from 780p and 1080i is imperfect, and makes defects in the source (compression artifacts, etc.) much more noticeable.

There is so little HDR and Dolby Video material available that within a couple of months I had exhausted all there is that I am interested in watching.

I ask myself.... I spent a lot for money, for what?

I was offered a buyback from Samsung for my PN60F8500 because they don't have replacement parts (I was having minor issues with a patch of dead pixels that formed a spot on the left edge of the screen) and have replaced it with a C8 65-incher.


I've just had the TV a day but just wanted to share early impressions, which are somewhat consistent with what shadowspawn and others have been saying.


My first impression was that content on my Dish Hopper3 receiver looks softer. I'm wondering if the screen size is a factor, a 65-inch TV is about 18 percent bigger in terms of screen real estate over a 60. Perhaps the upscaling isn't all that. It's not horrible, but consistent with what shadowspan said about professional reviewers using feeds that don't reflect what the everyday viewer would be watching in everyday circumstances.


I briefly watched some of last night's Celtics-Pacers game to see how it would handle motion. Sports mode was a mess. Black Frame Insertion isn't ready for prime time. Earlier today I watched a college football game replay and from their classics series using the expert dark room setting (no adjustments) in a room that wasn't dark, it handled motion much better. I used to use the stock cinema setting on my 8500 as set and it and forget it. Dark room expert seems to be the closest thing to that on the C8 as far as I can tell.


I signed up for Netflix 4K and watched some of "Our Planet" in Dolby Cinema. It looked fantastic, if there were motion issues the higher resolution and awesomeness of Dolby Cinema may have masked some of the flaws were noticing on mainstream content.
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post #14434 of 14466 Old 04-19-2019, 01:42 AM
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Im going to another city this weekend or a few days later to watch the c8 in person. They have a 4k player connected to it, and from what im hearing its just that low framerate content that bothers ppl. We will see where i end up.
Im planning on 77" c8, but the company im getting it from has 30day return-if-you-arent-happy aslong as its not damaged so that eases my mind abit.

Also i have to keep in mind that this thread is not objectiv even if you are trying 😎
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post #14435 of 14466 Old 04-19-2019, 04:30 AM
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I went from the F8500 to the Sony A9F because the LGs seemed to be worse at motion handling in my super subjective testing where i went to best buy and looked at a bunch of TVs next to one another. I watch a lot of hockey and the A9F handles it well, but i agree, i don't think it is quite as good as the plasma. However, 4k and HDR more than make up for it for me. But the LGs looked a lot worse for NHL/NBA.
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post #14436 of 14466 Old 04-19-2019, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbeezie View Post
I went from the F8500 to the Sony A9F because the LGs seemed to be worse at motion handling in my super subjective testing where i went to best buy and looked at a bunch of TVs next to one another. I watch a lot of hockey and the A9F handles it well, but i agree, i don't think it is quite as good as the plasma. However, 4k and HDR more than make up for it for me. But the LGs looked a lot worse for NHL/NBA.

Yeah, I think I made a mistake going with LG. I went with LG because the WebOS firmware was so much better, the Sony had aggressive ABL, and the LG looked better on the high-quality feeds in the store. I did not realize how sensitive I would be to motion handling on "normal" content..
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post #14437 of 14466 Old 04-21-2019, 09:47 PM
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I've had my C8 about five days now and couldn't be more disappointed. Sports looks awful. Up close, I can see visible halos around basketball players on long shots. Watching anything (not just sports) people go in and out of focus. Netflix 4K looks great. If that's all I was using it for I'd be happy. My Samsung PN60F8500 never had such problems, and Netflix in 1080p looked fantastic to my eyes. I'll check with LG, I suppose it's possible that I've gotten a defective set, but it sure doesn't seem like it. So I guess the next step is figuring out how to return or resell on Craigslist, and start looking at used plasmas in my area. There's a 65" Panasonic VT50 for sale locally on Craigslist. Expert reviewers seem to rate the VT50 comparably to the PNF8500, but it's the same experts that convinced me to hang a C8 on my wall.
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post #14438 of 14466 Old 04-21-2019, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by shadowspawn View Post
Yeah, I think I made a mistake going with LG. I went with LG because the WebOS firmware was so much better, the Sony had aggressive ABL, and the LG looked better on the high-quality feeds in the store. I did not realize how sensitive I would be to motion handling on "normal" content..

I don't think you're that sensitive and I don't think the Sony would've been much better. Maybe on the margins, but I think it's probably the nature of sample-and-hold that you've previously described on this thread. For technical reasons that I don't fully understand, it seems that sample-and-hold causes objects to drift out of focus. When you're watching a basketball game and they show a close up everything looks great, but then they show a long shot and everything looks out of focus. When they show a guy reaching for a rebound, or a soccer player pumping his fist, it's an absolute mess. I've tried every possible adjustment. True Motion user, smooth. Clear. Off with Motion Pro. User with Motion Pro. I went with this TV based on the overwhelming consensus among experts that this is the best TV they've ever reviewed and the best for sports according to RTings.com, LOL.
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post #14439 of 14466 Old 04-21-2019, 11:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolby2020 View Post
For technical reasons that I don't fully understand, it seems that sample-and-hold causes objects to drift out of focus. When you're watching a basketball game and they show a close up everything looks great, but then they show a long shot and everything looks out of focus. When they show a guy reaching for a rebound, or a soccer player pumping his fist, it's an absolute mess.

There's a pretty good explanation here:


https://www.blurbusters.com/faq/oled-motion-blur/


Basically, our eyes track motion on the screen. Plasma dimming or shutting off the pixels between frames works well with eyes moving in relation to the picture. Sample and hold is a disaster with eyes moving in relation to the picture.


It's "subjective" (not so much "subjective" as varying from person to person) because different people have different behaviors as far as their eyes tracking motion on the screen.
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post #14440 of 14466 Old 04-21-2019, 11:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowspawn View Post
There's a pretty good explanation here:


https://www.blurbusters.com/faq/oled-motion-blur/


Basically, our eyes track motion on the screen. Plasma dimming or shutting off the pixels between frames works well with eyes moving in relation to the picture. Sample and hold is a disaster with eyes moving in relation to the picture.


It's "subjective" (not so much "subjective" as varying from person to person) because different people have different behaviors as far as their eyes tracking motion on the screen.
I can't usually tell the difference on a TV screen at normal viewing distance between a 720p or 1080p (I haven't viewed much in 4K), but 480p is unwatchable. To me it's not a matter of a stray artifact here or there that you'd have to look for or a band that only shows up in test patterns. Most sports (and some non-sports HD content I get on my Dish Hopper3) looks like the difference between watching 720p/1080p and 480p. Fly ball to center field on my plasma, the center fielder can be seen clear and in focus. Fly ball to center field on my C8, and he's in 480p. I question whether it's something people notice, or whether they actually care. I suspect some do and some don't.
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post #14441 of 14466 Old 04-22-2019, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbeezie View Post
I went from the F8500 to the Sony A9F because the LGs seemed to be worse at motion handling in my super subjective testing where i went to best buy and looked at a bunch of TVs next to one another. I watch a lot of hockey and the A9F handles it well, but i agree, i don't think it is quite as good as the plasma. However, 4k and HDR more than make up for it for me. But the LGs looked a lot worse for NHL/NBA.


You and I watch similar sports programming. I am really disappointed to hear hockey and basketball aren’t appealing. I was about to jump into a C8. I will have to do some additional research or maybe get one from a place that will allow no fee returns. If I don’t like for sports I wouldn’t have an issue keeping this tv or my panny st60 in the viewing rotation.




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post #14442 of 14466 Old 04-22-2019, 06:27 PM
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Posting RTings.com reply from about a month ago that I missed. I'm off to look at a 65" Panasonic VT50 somebody's selling on Craigslist.


[quote=shadowspawn;57787274]The "expert" reviewers are operating in an ideal world. Among actual owners, it's controversial at best.


It depends on your environment, your viewing habits, and your preferences.


If you have a somewhat bright room, have a 77" panel, sit close to the screen, watch mostly 4K HDR / Dolby Vision content, like a "sharp" picture, and you are not one of those people sensitive to motion blur, OLED will blow you away with goodness.


If you have a light controlled room, don't have a 77" panel, don't sit close to the screen, watch a lot of 780p compressed cable content (including sports) that the TV has to imperfectly upscale, like an "organic" picture, and are sensitive to motion blue, you won't be impressed at all."




Posted 27 days ago by Adam Babcock (RTINGS.com)
"Shadowspawn is correct, but this is subjective. Because OLEDs have a nearly instantaneous response time, the image is drawn directly on screen with almost no delay, and held there until the next frame is ready. This is what is know as “sample-and-hold”. Since there is no blur between frames, motion, especially when watching 24p content (like most movies), can appear to jump across the screen. This is known as “stutter” in our tests.
Not everyone notices this though, and not everyone is bothered by it. The biggest complaints usually come from people used to motion on plasma TVs. As they have pointed out on AVS, this can be reduced by enabling BFI, or by adding interpolation to “fill in the gaps” between frames.
If you are in doubt, the best thing to do is to go see one. In store displays usually aren’t the best way to judge a TV’s performance, but motion varies very little between picture modes, so you should still be able to judge how good motion looks (or doesn’t) to you."



https://www.rtings.com/tv/discussion...n-score-review
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post #14443 of 14466 Old 04-23-2019, 02:22 AM
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Is anyone using a 4K/UHD blu-ray player which feeds the Samsung a downconverted picture?
I am interested in experiences around that since my Samsung is still working and supports 3D but I also
want to access some of the new 4K discs being released.
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post #14444 of 14466 Old 04-24-2019, 11:40 AM
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I just picked up a PN64F8500 with 5800hrs on it last week for $400. It is in really good condition and well worth the $. I just need a ZT/VT60 to complete my plasma dreams.
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post #14445 of 14466 Old 04-24-2019, 11:50 AM
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Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Owners Thread (No Street Price Talk)

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Originally Posted by avsform1 View Post
I just picked up a PN64F8500 with 5800hrs on it last week for $400. It is in really good condition and well worth the $. I just need a ZT/VT60 to complete my plasma dreams.


Congrats on a hell of a deal, hopefully you double those hours before it fails

Curious as to the highest hours people have without issues...
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post #14446 of 14466 Old 04-24-2019, 12:25 PM
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Congrats on a hell of a deal, hopefully you double those hours before it fails

Curious as to the highest hours people have without issues...



Last I checked, I had 15,xxx hours on my 60F8500 (about 3-4 months ago). TV runs all day (10+ hours) every day with no issues. It has started to restart itself at very random times although it hasn't happened it a while. Power supply from what I've read. I definitely feel like I've got my monies worth.
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post #14447 of 14466 Old 04-24-2019, 05:13 PM
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I’ve got over 10k hours, but miss the days when TVs didn’t die. Or at least you didn’t have to worry so much about it.
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post #14448 of 14466 Old 04-25-2019, 12:49 PM
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Congrats on a hell of a deal, hopefully you double those hours before it fails

Curious as to the highest hours people have without issues...



My PN60 has over 10k hrs, so I expecting to enjoy this set for a long time. These F8500s look really great after a calibration, which I am planning to do this weekend. As long as Plasma set are still working and being sold, I will continue to buy. I am looking to get a VT/ZT 60 next.
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post #14449 of 14466 Old 04-28-2019, 01:34 PM
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Curious as to the highest hours people have without issues...

My 64F8500 had 13000+ hours before it failed due to the ceramic capacitor issue on the Y sustain board. I got a local guy to fix it for $50 (I had to carry the board into his shop).
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post #14450 of 14466 Old 04-30-2019, 11:25 AM
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60F8500 here with over 11,000 hours on it and still no issues, still would like a larger TV though, lol, but the 77" Oled is a lot out of my price range
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post #14451 of 14466 Old 05-03-2019, 06:09 PM
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I think I'm at 13,000 hours or so (watching a show with others right now, so I can't geekily check right now lol).

The only issue I've ever had with this TV is that every so often the info bar will freeze when being removed from the screen. I have to unplug the back of the TV to address it, otherwise it stays there (no television commands will work either). I've been seeing that since its infancy. Never had any other problem with this TV before, otherwise.

Living Room: Samsung PN60F8500 PDP / Anthem MRX 720 / Klipsch RC-62 II / Klipsch RF-82 II (x2) / SVS PC13-Ultra / Sony MDR-7506 Professional / Sony PS3 / DirecTV HR44-500 / DarbeeVision DVP-5000 Darblet / Panamax M5400-PM / miniDSP UMIK‑1 USB
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post #14452 of 14466 Old 05-22-2019, 11:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowspawn View Post
There's a pretty good explanation here:


https://www.blurbusters.com/faq/oled-motion-blur/


Basically, our eyes track motion on the screen. Plasma dimming or shutting off the pixels between frames works well with eyes moving in relation to the picture. Sample and hold is a disaster with eyes moving in relation to the picture.


It's "subjective" (not so much "subjective" as varying from person to person) because different people have different behaviors as far as their eyes tracking motion on the screen.

On the recommendations of some on this thread and others I signed up for a streaming service trial and I'm getting much better picture quality on all content compared to Dish Network, including sports. I signed up for YouTube TV because it's one of the only services that's built into my LG C8 and caught part of the Sharks/Blues game last night, difference between streaming content and Dish is dramatic. There was some blurring of the puck on slap shots. My PNF8500 probably would've handled that scenario better, but besides that I didn't have the problems I've experienced using Dish. The picture quality on nearly all channels is sharper. I can't speak to what you're experiencing, but I believe in my case the compression that satellite (although to a lesser extent Directv from what many are saying) and cable use that wasn't a problem on most 1080p TVs is creating picture quality problems on 4K TVs. If you haven't tried it yet, might be worth a shot.
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post #14453 of 14466 Old 05-23-2019, 07:27 AM
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On the recommendations of some on this thread and others I signed up for a streaming service trial and I'm getting much better picture quality on all content compared to Dish Network, including sports. I signed up for YouTube TV because it's one of the only services that's built into my LG C8 and caught part of the Sharks/Blues game last night, difference between streaming content and Dish is dramatic. There was some blurring of the puck on slap shots. My PNF8500 probably would've handled that scenario better, but besides that I didn't have the problems I've experienced using Dish. The picture quality on nearly all channels is sharper. I can't speak to what you're experiencing, but I believe in my case the compression that satellite (although to a lesser extent Directv from what many are saying) and cable use that wasn't a problem on most 1080p TVs is creating picture quality problems on 4K TVs. If you haven't tried it yet, might be worth a shot.
I have a fix for you on the blurring. My B6 does the same thing with YoutubeTV. I switched to a Roku express and the problem is gone. Also youtubeTV looks perfectly normal on all my plasma's using various devices like Nvidea Schield, Roku or Chromecast. LG OLED internal App does not look right.
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post #14454 of 14466 Old 05-23-2019, 01:13 PM
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I have a fix for you on the blurring. My B6 does the same thing with YoutubeTV. I switched to a Roku express and the problem is gone. Also youtubeTV looks perfectly normal on all my plasma's using various devices like Nvidea Schield, Roku or Chromecast. LG OLED internal App does not look right.
Interesting, I'd have thought the built-in processor on the TV would do a better job with motion handling than what on the surface looks like a cheap plastic box. I was planning on picking up a Roku to try out different services. Having YouTube TV built into the TV makes it a lot easier to use, although having a Harmony remote might negate some of the inconveniences. It's a shame Dish can't send out content at higher bandwith. I'd always assumed the cord-cutting movement was fueled by commitment-phobic millennials and cost. Picture quality may end up winning the day for streaming services.
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post #14455 of 14466 Old 06-02-2019, 05:06 AM
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Congrats on a hell of a deal, hopefully you double those hours before it fails

Curious as to the highest hours people have without issues...
Where do you go to see the hours displayed?

LCR: Hsu HB-1 MK2, HC-1 MK2..........Subwoofer: Rhythmik D15SE
Receiver: Denon X4200W..................Networking: Roku Premiere+, Chromecast Audio
Blu-Ray: Oppo BDP-80......................TV: Samsung PN60F8500
Atmos/DTS-X: 5.1.4; RSL C34E speakers
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post #14456 of 14466 Old 06-03-2019, 09:55 AM
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Are the boards for the different sizes also different?

One of my friends has a 51 and 64 F8500, but he was moving the 51 and dogs accidentally ran into him and the screen broke. I thought the boards were different, but just thought I would confirm here before telling him so.

Samsung 64F8500| OPPO 93| Amazon Fire TV
Samsung 51F8500| OPPO 93| WiiU
Samsung 51F8500| Sony BDP-S360| Xbox One
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post #14457 of 14466 Old 06-06-2019, 03:43 PM
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Where do you go to see the hours displayed?
Press Mute 7 3 7 Enter on the remote with the TV on (You might have to try a few times to get the timing down). MRT is panel time in hours. Turn the TV off to exit the menu.
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post #14458 of 14466 Old 06-06-2019, 04:55 PM
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I got to probably mid 2000 hours before my HDMI board failed and needed replaced. Then got to around 4000 hours before the power board failed and needed to be replaced Now at 4500 I have screen flickering that is driving me nuts. Has totally turned me off from Samsung TVs for my replacement...
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post #14459 of 14466 Old 06-07-2019, 11:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dustman52 View Post
Press Mute 7 3 7 Enter on the remote with the TV on (You might have to try a few times to get the timing down). MRT is panel time in hours. Turn the TV off to exit the menu.
This worked without too much problem (after remembering to press Enter!). MRT is 4388 hours. I still think the display looks very good and no anomalies. Some time back I ran some of the basic Spears and Munsil HD v2 disc patterns and didn't find a need to make any adjustments. I am usually on Movie mode.

LCR: Hsu HB-1 MK2, HC-1 MK2..........Subwoofer: Rhythmik D15SE
Receiver: Denon X4200W..................Networking: Roku Premiere+, Chromecast Audio
Blu-Ray: Oppo BDP-80......................TV: Samsung PN60F8500
Atmos/DTS-X: 5.1.4; RSL C34E speakers
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post #14460 of 14466 Old 06-09-2019, 08:54 PM
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I've been following this thread for several years. Have forgotton the meaninf on pn64f8500 plasma of five blinks of red light upon manual command on. Advice please. Thank you for your patience.
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