Samsung PN51F5300 â?? What a little gem! - i1Pro Calibration results inside - Page 61 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1801 of 2013 Old 06-14-2015, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave1130 View Post
Ok couple of questions first off have you actually looked at how many hours the TV had on it? If it was open box I can pretty much tell you it has more than 60 hours.

To check that you to hit mute and 737 and then hit enter on your remote. That will take you to the service menu and part way down it will you show you actual display hours at MRT.

Seriously though it sounds like you are having a warranty issue with your panel.

My A model came with 320 hours on it. I picked it up in May and the Blacks are fantastic and it now has 566 hours on it.

These models were actually rated at having amazing Blacks for the money.
The B models were supposedly just as good as 8500 panels. The A's are really not far behind. Definitely not enough to warrant paying another 500-700.

I wanted a B model badly and could find one. I wound up with this A model that I feel is quite excellent none the less. I am resigned to it now happily.

Oh and I am sorry but a Vizio just does not hold a candle to these TV's in any way shape or form. You would either have to buy ST level Panasonic or an 8500 to get a better TV.

Good luck getting either of those at reasonable price points without lots of hours on them.
Yes I have already checked the hours in the service menu... When I last checked it had 50 on the dot. Which is accurate to the amount of time of watched shows and slides. When I last watched GoT on my Samsung 7150 I never saw the blacks as being too gray (I had to have the back-light set to 0-1). The only issue I had was severe bleeding around the edges that was extremely noticeable on all back-light levels and you could actually see the bleed in full light and in store when I returned it.
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post #1802 of 2013 Old 06-14-2015, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1989civic View Post
No, I have all of the enhancements like Dynamic Contrast, turned off. I've heard of other Samsung sets and Panasonic models that have the floating black level issue. As these changes are always repeatable and not random, it makes me wonder if it simply is intrinsic in the tech itself.
iGrease, do YOU have all those Eco and Dynamic settings set to OFF ?

Try using Orion's basic Calibration PQ Settings for the 5300 and report back.
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post #1803 of 2013 Old 06-14-2015, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by PhilipsPhanatic View Post
iGrease, do YOU have all those Eco and Dynamic settings set to OFF ?

Try using Orion's basic Calibration PQ Settings for the 5300 and report back.
Yes everything is off, they have been off since I got the TV. Whenever I needed to reset the TV I turned them back OFF. Everything that would effect anything is off. ****, even the built in black/white scroll isn't as black anymore. I'll put in his basic calibrations once more but it isn't going to change anything.

edit-
Put in both his and soulburner's settings and the same thing happens.

Last edited by iGREASE; 06-14-2015 at 06:09 PM.
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post #1804 of 2013 Old 06-14-2015, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by iGREASE View Post
Yes everything is off, they have been off since I got the TV. Whenever I needed to reset the TV I turned them back OFF. Everything that would effect anything is off. ****, even the built in black/white scroll isn't as black anymore. I'll put in his basic calibrations once more but it isn't going to change anything. edit-Put in both his and soulburner's settings and the same thing happens.
OK, seems like you are on top of things, could be a defect. Not sure how this happened after so little hours of use...like the TV changed after a few hours.

Anybody else in the household could have screwed up any settings (though RESET should have put those back to normal) ?
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post #1805 of 2013 Old 06-14-2015, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by PhilipsPhanatic View Post
OK, seems like you are on top of things, could be a defect. Not sure how this happened after so little hours of use...like the TV changed after a few hours.

Anybody else in the household could have screwed up any settings (though RESET should have put those back to normal) ?
Nope the TV is in my room and only I use it.
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post #1806 of 2013 Old 06-15-2015, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by iGREASE View Post
Nope the TV is in my room and only I use it.
Time to put in a warranty call. I think your panel has a problem and it's a manufacturing defect.
Too many of us have great blacks A or B models for yours to be the norm.

People,have to reliaze there is no such thing as 100% perfect in large scale manufacturing. There is always going to be a percentage of failure.
Now that percentage can be hig or low depending on quality control.
The other factor is how the manufacture handles here issues in warranty when they happen.

It's more problematic with TV's as they use capacitors which if cheaply made as some are in China and work fine initially. Though they fail at a higher rate and shorter time than well made quailty capacitors.

The capacitor comment is merely an example of modern issues and not describing Igrease's issue.

Indeed Panasonic suffered from manufacturing issues i.e. Cheap components that fail prematurely during the final days of there Plasma production. I am a victim of that 2.5 years in and a component failure out of warranty.

I did not got get extended warranty. It was not worth spending the money to fix the TV . Unless I wanted to put it on a workbench and solder in a $5 IC myself.
All that to maybe bring its value up slightly, say $300-350.

Yup bought the Samsung and called it a day.

I ramble though, Seriously Igrease just make the warranty call in the end you will be happy with the results as you will have great blacks and be amazed. IMO

Last edited by Dave1130; 06-15-2015 at 12:30 PM.
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post #1807 of 2013 Old 06-15-2015, 01:09 PM
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Vibrating Picture: I just noticed some slight vibrating in the pictures on SOME of my channels. It's more noticeable when you freeze the picture. The picture vibrates a fraction of an inch, maybe a few pixels up-and-down, but it's clearly noticeable (esp. if you freeze-frame).

Not seeing it on ALL the HD channels, and not on my Blu-Ray.

Probably a cable STB or HDMI issue, right ?

Other TV in bedroom is fine.

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post #1808 of 2013 Old 06-16-2015, 12:58 PM
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Had the main board replaced in mine today. I suspect lightning got it but nothing else was harmed. Samsung covered it under warranty (had about a week left on warranty). Thankful but now I've got to decide on the best settings again
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post #1809 of 2013 Old 06-16-2015, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave1130 View Post
Time to put in a warranty call. I think your panel has a problem and it's a manufacturing defect.
Too many of us have great blacks A or B models for yours to be the norm.

People,have to reliaze there is no such thing as 100% perfect in large scale manufacturing. There is always going to be a percentage of failure.
Now that percentage can be hig or low depending on quality control.
The other factor is how the manufacture handles here issues in warranty when they happen.

It's more problematic with TV's as they use capacitors which if cheaply made as some are in China and work fine initially. Though they fail at a higher rate and shorter time than well made quailty capacitors.

The capacitor comment is merely an example of modern issues and not describing Igrease's issue.

Indeed Panasonic suffered from manufacturing issues i.e. Cheap components that fail prematurely during the final days of there Plasma production. I am a victim of that 2.5 years in and a component failure out of warranty.

I did not got get extended warranty. It was not worth spending the money to fix the TV . Unless I wanted to put it on a workbench and solder in a $5 IC myself.
All that to maybe bring its value up slightly, say $300-350.

Yup bought the Samsung and called it a day.

I ramble though, Seriously Igrease just make the warranty call in the end you will be happy with the results as you will have great blacks and be amazed. IMO

So.. Just to make sure. If you put up a blank black image on your TV with different black optimizer settings, do you see any flickering/pulsating light?
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post #1810 of 2013 Old 06-16-2015, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilipsPhanatic View Post
Vibrating Picture: I just noticed some slight vibrating in the pictures on SOME of my channels. It's more noticeable when you freeze the picture. The picture vibrates a fraction of an inch, maybe a few pixels up-and-down, but it's clearly noticeable (esp. if you freeze-frame).

Not seeing it on ALL the HD channels, and not on my Blu-Ray.

Probably a cable STB or HDMI issue, right ?

Other TV in bedroom is fine.
Are the channels/blu Ray content/sources of a particular resolution?
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post #1811 of 2013 Old 06-17-2015, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Michael Vincent Praino View Post
Are the channels/blu Ray content/sources of a particular resolution?
Varied, Mike.....some 1920x1080, some 1280x720, some 720x480.

But it's looking OK now. It wasn't on all channels and not on the Blu-Ray so I knew it couldn't be the TV.

Cablevision (my provider) is getting rid of the dual-HDTV channel setup they had (you could watch CBS on Ch. 2 or 702....ESPN on 36 or 736...etc.) by getting rid of the higher-numbered channels. So it was probably a technical glitch on their part. CNN was always jittery last few days but now looks fine even when frozen.
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post #1812 of 2013 Old 06-17-2015, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by PhilipsPhanatic View Post
Varied, Mike.....some 1920x1080, some 1280x720, some 720x480.

But it's looking OK now. It wasn't on all channels and not on the Blu-Ray so I knew it couldn't be the TV.

Cablevision (my provider) is getting rid of the dual-HDTV channel setup they had (you could watch CBS on Ch. 2 or 702....ESPN on 36 or 736...etc.) by getting rid of the higher-numbered channels. So it was probably a technical glitch on their part. CNN was always jittery last few days but now looks fine even when frozen.
My parents have Cablevision and experience the same issue from time to time and on varied channels. I'd say it's a Cablevision issue.
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post #1813 of 2013 Old 06-18-2015, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Michael Vincent Praino View Post
My parents have Cablevision and experience the same issue from time to time and on varied channels. I'd say it's a Cablevision issue.
I just noticed it in the last few days when the migration started. I freeze the pic at times quite often daily so I probably would have noticed it weeks ago but didn't.

Looks solved, fingers crossed !
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post #1814 of 2013 Old 06-24-2015, 09:35 AM
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So the "tech" just left and said there wasn't anything wrong with my TV. Told him that for the first week or so I had no issue with the TV until I noticed the pulsating and weaker black level one day. I showed him a couple scenes where the flickering/pulsating (I know it can't be floating blacks because if it was all of the black would get bright, not pulsate darker and brighter on the same scene) was most noticeable even when sitting 9 feet away from TV. I told him multiple people on a TV enthusiast board said that their same TV did not have this issue. Also I mentioned that the black levels of the TV have gotten worse once the pulsating started to happen. He said that was normal and that the screen is supposed to keep a certain amount of light on and move the pixels around. He then went on telling me about how Plasma aren't as bright as LCD's blah blah blah, I know this. He the changed a couple of picture settings on the TV butting it on Dynamic and increasing the brightness and stuff, looked at the test picture to see if anything was wrong. I followed by telling him the picture quality is fine and my issue is only with dark scenes. He said there was nothing wrong. I then told him about the magenta issue I had on the bottom left side of the screen that I could see clearly but he "couldn't" see anything too abnormal. Basically in the end he just gave me his card and told me to call him if the issues get any worse.

Talk about useless. I even had my grandma come in and SHE even noticed the flickering. Should I put in another claim and hope to get a different tech?
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post #1815 of 2013 Old 06-24-2015, 11:20 AM
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Talk about useless. I even had my grandma come in and SHE even noticed the flickering. Should I put in another claim and hope to get a different tech?
Yep or get it replaced. Just tell the tech to get you a new one.

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post #1816 of 2013 Old 06-24-2015, 07:20 PM
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Yep or get it replaced. Just tell the tech to get you a new one.
Yeah.. I'll probably just hope for a different tech this time. He acted like he didn't even really want to help. So I don't think he would be like okay, let me just grab you a new set.
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post #1817 of 2013 Old 06-24-2015, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by iGREASE View Post
Yeah.. I'll probably just hope for a different tech this time. He acted like he didn't even really want to help. So I don't think he would be like okay, let me just grab you a new set.
Of course not he would not get paid for the visit. Next time be upfront and say you want a new set. F all the fixin'.

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post #1818 of 2013 Old 06-24-2015, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by iGREASE View Post
Talk about useless. I even had my grandma come in and SHE evn noticed the flickering. Should I put in another claim and hope to get a different tech?
Yes, or get an ISF Calibration guy to check it out.
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post #1819 of 2013 Old 06-25-2015, 05:30 AM
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There's nothing wrong with your set. The "pulsating" or "flickering" on an all black screen is due to black optimizer being turned on. It does some kind of pulse waveform to lower the black level. Turn black optimizer off and the pulsating goes away but blacks get lighter.

My 60F5300B does the same thing. I cannot notice it at normal viewing distances but if you get up close to the screen you can see the wavy horizontal black lines running across the screen with black optimizer turned on.
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post #1820 of 2013 Old 06-25-2015, 03:42 PM
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There's nothing wrong with your set. The "pulsating" or "flickering" on an all black screen is due to black optimizer being turned on. It does some kind of pulse waveform to lower the black level. Turn black optimizer off and the pulsating goes away but blacks get lighter. My 60F5300B does the same thing. I cannot notice it at normal viewing distances but if you get up close to the screen you can see the wavy horizontal black lines running across the screen with black optimizer turned on.
Good info....some of those Settings were so minor that I had no idea what they actually did and if the changes would be noticeable to the naked eye or not.

Why a 'Black Optimizer' would LOWER black levels is weird. If anybody has a setting-by-setting description for all the 5300's variables, that would be nice to have. I know the TV gives a quickie mini-function to the right when you scroll through stuff but it doesn't really give enough information.

Some are OFF/ON items with big changes if you have it ON/OFF...others have LOW, MED, MAX settings.....others have a scale from 0-20 or 0-100 or whatever........some settings are really important and others you can go from one extreme to the other and not see the differences unless you have an experienced eye.
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post #1821 of 2013 Old 06-25-2015, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post
There's nothing wrong with your set. The "pulsating" or "flickering" on an all black screen is due to black optimizer being turned on. It does some kind of pulse waveform to lower the black level. Turn black optimizer off and the pulsating goes away but blacks get lighter.

My 60F5300B does the same thing. I cannot notice it at normal viewing distances but if you get up close to the screen you can see the wavy horizontal black lines running across the screen with black optimizer turned on.
Ok that does make sense and I did notice when I turned the Black Optimizer off it went away yes. However I see it at 10 feet away and not just on all black. If you watch Game of Thrones go to season 5, episode 6 7:54 and you can really notice it. The entire scene it literally pulsating. But whatever. If it isn't actually a problem I guess I may just sell the TV then. I'm just not happy with the black levels. I guess the only way to get blacker blacks is to either go oled or find a panny plasma somewhere. I've already done the black level tweak by changing the Vscan and VE but got some misfires. Does changing the others do anything for black levels?

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post #1822 of 2013 Old 06-25-2015, 04:14 PM
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Black optimizer is a gimmick and should not even be in the system firmware as an option.

The first thing I do when buying a TV whether its my last TV at $3,000 or this replacement PN60F5300 for $800 is turn all the auto/dynamic/optimizer/magic ... stuff off anyway.
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post #1823 of 2013 Old 06-26-2015, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by W3Rman View Post
Black optimizer is a gimmick and should not even be in the system firmware as an option.

The first thing I do when buying a TV whether its my last TV at $3,000 or this replacement PN60F5300 for $800 is turn all the auto/dynamic/optimizer/magic ... stuff off anyway.
It's not a gimmick. It noticeably improves black level/contrast ratio, and it's recommended by calibrators to leave on. With it turned off you're looking at mid range plasma blacks. That's not a compromise I'm willing to make as I don't see any flickering from normal viewing distances.

With it off I can see the significantly worse blacks though.
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post #1824 of 2013 Old 06-26-2015, 01:13 PM
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Ok that does make sense and I did notice when I turned the Black Optimizer off it went away yes. However I see it at 10 feet away and not just on all black.
Do you see it....or not ?

Quote:
If you watch Game of Thrones go to season 5, episode 6 7:54 and you can really notice it. The entire scene it literally pulsating. But whatever. If it isn't actually a problem I guess I may just sell the TV then. I'm just not happy with the black levels.
The TV has good black levels, are you one of these Black Level Purists or just looking for black in all the scenes instead of focusing on the non-black color PQ ? You seem to be going out of your way to find flaws.

Have you seen an 8500 ? How do those look to you ? If you aren't happy with that, then I think unless you pay big $$$ for an out-of-date Panny you're going to be seeing black flaws.

When you watch a normal movie.....CNN or Fox or CNBC....ESPN or local sports channels....how does it look ?

It's not all about blacks !!

Quote:
I guess the only way to get blacker blacks is to either go oled or find a panny plasma somewhere. I've already done the black level tweak by changing the Vscan and VE but got some misfires. Does changing the others do anything for black levels?
If you are really miserable I hope you luck out and find what you are missing with one of the golden Panny's.

But maybe get that ISF Calibration expert over and let him give you a professional opinion ???

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post #1825 of 2013 Old 06-26-2015, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by W3Rman View Post
Black optimizer is a gimmick and should not even be in the system firmware as an option.
Hmmm....I think Orion's Settings had it on DARK ROOM becaue that's what I have now.

Also have FILM MODE on AUTO2.....HDMI Black Level at NORMAL.

No problems with those other settings ?
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post #1826 of 2013 Old 06-26-2015, 01:37 PM
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Hmmm....I think Orion's Settings had it on DARK ROOM becaue that's what I have now.

Also have FILM MODE on AUTO2.....HDMI Black Level at NORMAL.

No problems with those other settings ?
HDMI black level should match your source.
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post #1827 of 2013 Old 06-26-2015, 01:50 PM
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HDMI black level should match your source.
What's that mean ?

Alot of these I scrolled through different settings before defaulting to Orion's and the changes were very very minute or not even noticeable.

I remember on my Philips HDTV I had this Dynamic setting or something.....OFF/MIN/MED/MAX.....it was defaulted to MAX and it made the picture SO DARK I thought it was broken out of the box. Reduced it to a lower setting and it brightened....at OFF the picture looked fine.

But some of these things, like GAMMA and White Point and others....unless you set them to the highest setting or to an extreme number, it seems like you can't tell the difference to the naked eye.
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post #1828 of 2013 Old 06-26-2015, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by PhilipsPhanatic View Post
What's that mean ?

Alot of these I scrolled through different settings before defaulting to Orion's and the changes were very very minute or not even noticeable.

I remember on my Philips HDTV I had this Dynamic setting or something.....OFF/MIN/MED/MAX.....it was defaulted to MAX and it made the picture SO DARK I thought it was broken out of the box. Reduced it to a lower setting and it brightened....at OFF the picture looked fine.

But some of these things, like GAMMA and White Point and others....unless you set them to the highest setting or to an extreme number, it seems like you can't tell the difference to the naked eye.
You should NOT copy anyone's settings. Read this two links all discussing why:

1. http://referencehometheater.com/2013...ults-compared/
2. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-lc...-measured.html

You should turn off all post processing except black optimiser. HDMI black level needs to match your source. If you are using a bluray player or cable box, you will likely need the HDMI black level set to low or you will wash out your picture. HDMI black level normal is mainly for when you are connecting a computer to the TV or specific situations in which you need to use the full range (0-255).

To get the BEST picture possible without hiring someone to do a calibration, use the below:

Picture:
Picture Mode: Movie
Cell Light: 20
Contrast: 90-100 (set with AVS white clipping pattern)
Brightness: 45-49 (set with AVS black clipping pattern)
Sharpness: 0
Color: 50
Tint (G/R): G50R50

Picture Size: Screen Fit

Advanced Settings:
Dyanic Contrast: Off
Black Tone: Off
Flesh Tone: 0
RGB Only Mode: Off
Color Space: Auto

White Balance:
R-Offset: 25
G-Offset: 25
B-Offset: 25
R-Gain: 25
G-Gain: 25
B-Gain: 25

10p White Balance: Off
Gamma: 0
Expert Pattern: Off
Motion Lighting: Off

Picture Options:
Colour Tone: Warm 2
Digital Clean View: Off
MPEG Noise Filter: Off
HDMI Black Level: Low
Film Mode: Auto2 (1080i sports, news, etc) or Auto1 (1080i films, movies)
Black Optimiser: Dark Room (Auto if you want more brightness)

Last edited by Michael Vincent Praino; 06-26-2015 at 02:14 PM.
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post #1829 of 2013 Old 06-26-2015, 02:33 PM
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Thanks, MVP !!!!
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post #1830 of 2013 Old 06-26-2015, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilipsPhanatic View Post
Do you see it....or not ?



The TV has good black levels, are you one of these Black Level Purists or just looking for black in all the scenes instead of focusing on the non-black color PQ ? You seem to be going out of your way to find flaws.

Have you seen an 8500 ? How do those look to you ? If you aren't happy with that, then I think unless you pay big $$$ for an out-of-date Panny you're going to be seeing black flaws.

When you watch a normal movie.....CNN or Fox or CNBC....ESPN or local sports channels....how does it look ?

It's not all about blacks !!



If you are really miserable I hope you luck out and find what you are missing with one of the golden Panny's.

But maybe get that ISF Calibration expert over and let him give you a professional opinion ???
1. I only see the the pulsating from my sitting distance with Black Optimizer on Dark Room, Bright room and Auto. If I stand like 2 feet away from the TV with Black Optimizer off I can still see it although it is faint.

2. Maybe I am.

3. Nope.

4. I don't watch TV on this TV.

How much does it cost someone to calibrate a tv?
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